Bloody Sunday

[Kevin 1]

Stick on ITV2 now, Bloody Sunday's on.

[ewerk 30368]

Yes, I think a lot of people would have a problem with the police gunning down people at random.

[NJS 4375]

They believed he wasn't innocent though, and was a danger. You are just applying blind, idealistic hindsight. My question stands, if Bird had been shot before shooting or doing "anything suspicious", would you have complained an innocent man had been shot ?

 

He would at least have had to have a gun and been threatening to get to that stage surely? If he'd emailed a mate and said "fuck this I'm going on a spree" should that have been grounds for execution? If so how many people do you think the police would have to shoot every day?

 

Turning the question around do you think the police should have the right to shoot anyone just based on so called intelligence which has been proven on many occasions to be shit?

 

Does this include all the Irish/Muslim "terrorists" who have been completely exonerated over the years - should we have shot them "just in case"?

[Kevin 1]

stick on ITV3! 119 on sky.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Kevin

[JawD 99]

Even when your PM admits that you're wrong and those people were innocent you still want to argue. Brittish scumbags.

 

You know what? The subject itself is worthy of discussion. I've been told numerous stories, things you'd hardly believe about things that have happened over there. The shite and wrong doings from all sides. These from a few guys I know down in Armagh where I work now and again. However, this opening slant you decided to take. I tried to overlook it as immaturity, and were it not for being a 'net forum I'd have taken particular exception to that comment.

 

Most people, myself included, agree that what happened then was shocking. Disgusting. The whole thing was a shambles and its a shame it's taken this long and cost so much to prove that. Those there on the day have been rightfully exonerated. Don't though think this report covers everything, no matter what the report looked into, there are numerous things that went on during the height of the conflict that will only remain in peoples heads, talked about in certain bars. The whole thing was a mess.

 

You'd have probably had more support if you didn't open the thead by coming across as a total fucking wanker. Then again, wouldn't be you otherwise eh. My fucking troops. Fuck off.

[Kevin 1]

Even when your PM admits that you're wrong and those people were innocent you still want to argue. Brittish scumbags.

 

You know what? The subject itself is worthy of discussion. I've been told numerous stories, things you'd hardly believe about things that have happened over there. The shite and wrong doings from all sides. These from a few guys I know down in Armagh where I work now and again. However, this opening slant you decided to take. I tried to overlook it as immaturity, and were it not for being a 'net forum I'd have taken particular exception to that comment.

 

Most people, myself included, agree that what happened then was shocking. Disgusting. The whole thing was a shambles and its a shame it's taken this long and cost so much to prove that. Those there on the day have been rightfully exonerated. Don't though think this report covers everything, no matter what the report looked into, there are numerous things that went on during the height of the conflict that will only remain in peoples heads, talked about in certain bars. The whole thing was a mess.

 

You'd have probably had more support if you didn't open the thead by coming across as a total fucking wanker. Then again, wouldn't be you otherwise eh. My fucking troops. Fuck off.

That was a heat of the moment thing. Sorry

[Monkeys Fist 42129]

De Brittish Airmy'30 January 1972, 12:31 AM'

That was a heat of the moment thing. Sorry

Edited June 16, 2010 by Monkeys Fist

[Kitman 2204]

I haven't read the thread but I hope nobody is defending what happened on Bloody Sunday. It was a shameful and disgraceful incident which we are absolutely right to apologise and make amends for, and should have done so years ago.

 

Many people on both sides of the Irish Sea have said for years that the truth was covered up by the establishment. I haven't read the coverage but will be interested to see if the enquiry addressed this issue in particular.

[Monkeys Fist 42129]

I haven't read the thread but I hope nobody is defending what happened on Bloody Sunday. It was a shameful and disgraceful incident which we are absolutely right to apologise and make amends for, and should have done so years ago.

 

Many people on both sides of the Irish Sea have said for years that the truth was covered up by the establishment. I haven't read the coverage but will be interested to see if the enquiry addressed this issue in particular.

pretty much..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12...e-killings.html

[Craig 6682]

For someone what "wants this to be the end of it" Kevin, you don't half keep arguing. Looks like you've managed to piss JawD off which is now easy feat like...

 

Sadly I don't think it will 'be the end of it', on the contrary I think it will open up a whole new can of worms - the families of countless soldiers killed in the troubles may well want aplogies from those responsible who in large have never shown remorse.

 

The whole situation is real sorry mess.

[ewerk 30368]

De Brittish Airmy'30 January 1972, 12:31 AM'

That was a heat of the moment thing. Sorry

 

See, that would've solved the whole problem a long time ago.

[Geordieracer 0]

Unless I'm reading it wrong does the report not say that the first shots came from republican supporters who were in and amongst the demonstrators?

[ewerk 30368]

I think you're reading it wrong.

[Guest alex]

Unless I'm reading it wrong does the report not say that the first shots came from republican supporters who were in and amongst the demonstrators?

Says that wasn't the case, doesn't it?

[NJS 4375]

Unless I'm reading it wrong does the report not say that the first shots came from republican supporters who were in and amongst the demonstrators?

 

Shots were fired by IRA supporters after the first shots which were fired by the troops.

[Monkeys Fist 42129]

De Brittish Airmy'30 January 1972, 12:31 AM'

That was a heat of the moment thing. Sorry

 

See, that would've solved the whole problem a long time ago.

 

Sure Mcguinness said somewhere that an apology would've been enough?

Good Friday negotiations maybe?

[ewerk 30368]

De Brittish Airmy'30 January 1972, 12:31 AM'

That was a heat of the moment thing. Sorry

 

See, that would've solved the whole problem a long time ago.

 

Sure Mcguinness said somewhere that an apology would've been enough?

Good Friday negotiations maybe?

 

I'm not sure about McGuinness specifically but a lot of people would have been happy with an apology and clearing the names of the dead. However, there probably would have still been some who would've wanted a full inquiry and wouldn't have let it go.

[NJS 4375]

I'm not sure about McGuinness specifically but a lot of people would have been happy with an apology and clearing the names of the dead. However, there probably would have still been some who would've wanted a full inquiry and wouldn't have let it go.

 

Bernadette Devlin thinks the "the government" should be put on trial - I can understand her need for justice but almost all those involved at that level are dead - even I wouldn't suggest holding Cameron in anyway responsible.

 

(Though the ourrage if they dragged Thatcher into it would be amusing)

Edited June 16, 2010 by NJS

[Kevin 1]

As mentioned this won't be the end of it. People are going to want more etc. and you'll get the odd person trying to sue (it's Derry, rule nothing out ). I'd rather have it all put to bed now but it won't. Also Derry's slowly getting brought back to those days with the many of pipe bombs etc. Men got out beside friends of mine and fired 80 shots into the air as a warning If only it could all be put to rest and move on..

[Kitman 2204]

Sadly I don't think it will 'be the end of it', on the contrary I think it will open up a whole new can of worms - the families of countless soldiers killed in the troubles may well want aplogies from those responsible who in large have never shown remorse.

 

Personally I draw a distinction between the British Army and vicious terrorist organisations like the Provisional IRA or UDA. You can't expect standards of behaviour from the latter because they're illegal criminal organisations. You can and should expect it from a sovereign army on peacekeeping duties amongst its own citizens. Unless of course the British Army is viewed as a terrorist organisation in its own right, which Irish rebels have said for years.

[ewerk 30368]

I'm not sure about McGuinness specifically but a lot of people would have been happy with an apology and clearing the names of the dead. However, there probably would have still been some who would've wanted a full inquiry and wouldn't have let it go.

 

Bernadette Devlin thinks the "the government" should be put on trial - I can understand her need for justice but almost all those involved at that level are dead - even I wouldn't suggest holding Cameron in anyway responsible.

 

(Though the ourrage if they dragged Thatcher into it would be amusing)

 

Aye but Bernadette Devlin is never going to shut the fuck up.

 

And it was about 7 years too soon for Maggie.

[spongebob toonpants 3956]

Sadly I don't think it will 'be the end of it', on the contrary I think it will open up a whole new can of worms - the families of countless soldiers killed in the troubles may well want aplogies from those responsible who in large have never shown remorse.

 

Personally I draw a distinction between the British Army and vicious terrorist organisations like the Provisional IRA or UDA. You can't expect standards of behaviour from the latter because they're illegal criminal organisations. You can and should expect it from a sovereign army on peacekeeping duties amongst its own citizens. Unless of course the British Army is viewed as a terrorist organisation in its own right, which Irish rebels have said for years.

 

 

I dont get how so many are missing this point.

[Guest alex]

Sadly I don't think it will 'be the end of it', on the contrary I think it will open up a whole new can of worms - the families of countless soldiers killed in the troubles may well want aplogies from those responsible who in large have never shown remorse.

 

Personally I draw a distinction between the British Army and vicious terrorist organisations like the Provisional IRA or UDA. You can't expect standards of behaviour from the latter because they're illegal criminal organisations. You can and should expect it from a sovereign army on peacekeeping duties amongst its own citizens. Unless of course the British Army is viewed as a terrorist organisation in its own right, which Irish rebels have said for years.

 

 

I dont get how so many are missing this point.

Dozens of soldiers had been killed in the 12 months or so leading up to Bloody Sunday, the boundaries inevitably become blurred because of that. Not that that makes what happened acceptable in any way. But it becomes personal when comrades have died. People are only human. The only have to look at the footage of that day and around that time to see it's not as clean-cut as some would have it.

[NJS 4375]

And it was about 7 years too soon for Maggie.

 

She was education minister in Heath's government - not in anyway related I know but the only minister I'd guess who is still alive (and famous).

[NJS 4375]

Dozens of soldiers had been killed in the 12 months or so leading up to Bloody Sunday, the boundaries inevitably become blurred because of that. Not that that makes what happened acceptable in any way. But it becomes personal when comrades have died. People are only human. The only have to look at the footage of that day and around that time to see it's not as clean-cut as some would have it.

 

Thing is if you go back to the days before the republic was setup there were atrocities on both sides which make BS seem like a minor incident. I think it's a mark of how more "civilised" we are that at least enquiries are held (even if delayed) which wasn't the case in the days of empire.

Edited June 16, 2010 by NJS