ewerk 30616 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Wasn't that because of the divisions within the party after he was elected and the sdp breaking off and nicking votes? It's hard to imagine he lost the personality battle with Thatcher. And that was the era that saw Major elected too - hardly the most charasmatic leader. Perhaps image just wasn't as important back then. Maybe it isn't now but we're just led to believe it is? Perhaps a leader capable of energising apathetic voters could shake things up despite looking like a university professor approaching retirement Donkey jacket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 Donkey jacket. Let's not forget kinnock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21924 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I'm not sure what you fellows struggle with. Labour didn't cause the world wide crash but they had a hand in both with the way they took control away from the Bank of England and by their sheer mismanagement of deregulation. To imply they had no hand in it is ludicrous. Brown himself said. Mr Brown he had come under "relentless pressure" from the City not to over-regulate. "We know in retrospect what we missed. We set up the Financial Services Authority (FSA) believing that the problem would come from the failure of an individual institution," he said. "So we created a monitoring system which was looking at individual institutions. That was the big mistake. "We didn't understand how risk was spread across the system, we didn't understand the entanglements of different institutions with the other and we didn't understand even though we talked about it just how global things were, including a shadow banking system as well as a banking system. They all admit they got it wrong, that's before we get into PFI's, selling off the gold and all the money they wasted. Financial market deregulation was just picking up the baton from Thatcher, man. The most Tory policy any Labour government ever pursued. But rich for you to criticise Labour for being too Tory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 At best you might get some drivel about Labour's crash. I think CT even secretly understands that the crash wasn't down to Labour, the Tories would have experienced the same situation had they been in power and Labour's perceived weakeness on the economy is part of a narrative the media have established and the public have bought. The only labour leadership candidate seemingly prepared to challenge that narrative is Corbyn. No surprise thy so many with vested interests are saying he's unelectable. I would welcome him even if he is. It's time UK politics we're shaken up. What's the point in two near identical main political parties. May as well vote green or ukip as things stand, depending on which end of the spectrum your views lie. From what I can gather Burnham has credited Labour with excellent management of the economy up to a certain point while admitting that the defecit should have been reduced in the years preceding the crash but that the crash was a global event that perhaps could have been alleviated by stronger financial regulation. I don't see anything too controversial in any of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Let's not forget kinnock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4386 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I'm not sure what you fellows struggle with. Labour didn't cause the world wide crash but they had a hand in both with the way they took control away from the Bank of England and by their sheer mismanagement of deregulation. To imply they had no hand in it is ludicrous. Brown himself said. Mr Brown he had come under "relentless pressure" from the City not to over-regulate. "We know in retrospect what we missed. We set up the Financial Services Authority (FSA) believing that the problem would come from the failure of an individual institution," he said. "So we created a monitoring system which was looking at individual institutions. That was the big mistake. "We didn't understand how risk was spread across the system, we didn't understand the entanglements of different institutions with the other and we didn't understand even though we talked about it just how global things were, including a shadow banking system as well as a banking system. They all admit they got it wrong, that's before we get into PFI's, selling off the gold and all the money they wasted. Did the Tories propose more regulation to counter this or did they in fact constantly lobby for less? Compare selling off the gold with royal mail and rbs sell offs - did Brown's best man profit from the former? Explain "wasted money" - schools? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4386 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Donkey jacket. It wasn't like. Written by journalists who'd never been close enough to a pit or shipyard to know what one looked like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I know it wasn't but that's my point about image, that is one of the main things he is remembered for, not his policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 Did the Tories propose more regulation to counter this or did they in fact constantly lobby for less? Compare selling off the gold with royal mail and rbs sell offs - did Brown's best man profit from the former? Explain "wasted money" - schools? The war cry about what a wet behind the ears opposition chancellor might have done can not be compared to a veteran of government with years of experience as chancellor. Neither does it change the fact Labour got it wrong. They all admit this so we should really draw a line under it. As for the waste PFI's contracts have cost this country billions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 As for the waste PFI's contracts have cost this country billions. The system of PFI started and supported by the Tories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4386 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 The war cry about what a wet behind the ears opposition chancellor might have done can not be compared to a veteran of government with years of experience as chancellor. Neither does it change the fact Labour got it wrong. They all admit this so we should really draw a line under it. As for the waste PFI's contracts have cost this country billions. So why does it matter who labour elect now if oppositions don't matter? I abhor PFIs but they were invented by Major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4386 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I know it wasn't but that's my point about image, that is one of the main things he is remembered for, not his policies.As well as the "longest suicide note in history" referring to the 82 manifesto which if you read it now, apart from maybe UND, looks quite sensible - things like a national investment bank to bolster industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 13869 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 The system of PFI started and supported by the Tories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 I know it wasn't but that's my point about image, that is one of the main things he is remembered for, not his policies. Didn't he fall in the sea as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35083 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) It wasn't like. Written by journalists who'd never been close enough to a pit or shipyard to know what one looked like. Saw Heseltine repeat the lie on TV just after Foot's death as well. What a cunt. It was a deliberate lie though I think, rather than a genuine mistake. At the time and subsequently. Edit: In any case, you could've put Foot in an Armani suit and he'd have looked like a right clip in the eccentric professor mould. Not suggesting there's anything wrong with that btw. Edited August 19, 2015 by Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44894 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Look they've all admitted they were responsible for the financial crash so can we just close the pizza box on this one now please. Why are people still entertaining this halfwit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4386 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Saw Heseltine repeat the lie on TV just after Foot's death as well. What a cunt. It was a deliberate lie though I think, rather than a genuine mistake. At the time and subsequently. Edit: In any case, you could've put Foot in an Armani suit and he'd have looked like a right clip in the eccentric professor mould. Not suggesting there's anything wrong with that btw. I know Hestletine played a part in Thatcher's downfall but he's still a good example of a so called "one nation" Tory which supposedly means semi-human but generally just means a snide cunt. I agree on Foot - would have made a good PM pre-tv but not in the 80s. I think now the internet means that shouldn't apply to Corbyn necessarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17274 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I'm not sure what you fellows struggle with. Labour didn't cause the world wide crash but they had a hand in both with the way they took control away from the Bank of England and by their sheer mismanagement of deregulation. To imply they had no hand in it is ludicrous. Brown himself said. Mr Brown he had come under "relentless pressure" from the City not to over-regulate. "We know in retrospect what we missed. We set up the Financial Services Authority (FSA) believing that the problem would come from the failure of an individual institution," he said. "So we created a monitoring system which was looking at individual institutions. That was the big mistake. "We didn't understand how risk was spread across the system, we didn't understand the entanglements of different institutions with the other and we didn't understand even though we talked about it just how global things were, including a shadow banking system as well as a banking system. They all admit they got it wrong, that's before we get into PFI's, selling off the gold and all the money they wasted. Is there a quote for what the Tories would've done diffrently? New Labour has been thoroughly discredited for a host of failings which the present government are just continuing with. Dont mention Osbourne s bullshit gestures from the last parliament they've made no real difference whatsoever. Have the banks properly been split between investment and high street? This is what Corbyn is about, the diametric opposite of what has gone before. It may 've futile in a world where democracy has no real power compared with JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs but if the Labour party do fail after going down this road it will fail by being the Labour party, not just another bunch of fuckin Tories in thrall to the corporate world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35083 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I know Hestletine played a part in Thatcher's downfall but he's still a good example of a so called "one nation" Tory which supposedly means semi-human but generally just means a snide cunt. I agree on Foot - would have made a good PM pre-tv but not in the 80s. I think now the internet means that shouldn't apply to Corbyn necessarily. I think it was a nasty lie to start but repeating it just after he died was despicable. I also remember the Telegraph did an article slagging him off just after he'd died too. It also repeatedly the lie about the donkey jacket and even included a photo of him wearing the jacket (which clearly wasn't a donkey jacket). I know the Telegraph is pretty right wing but if a 'quality' newspaper like that is prepared to be so economical with the truth then it's a pretty sad state of affairs I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2207 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Wasn't that because of the divisions within the party after he was elected and the sdp breaking off and nicking votes? It's hard to imagine he lost the personality battle with Thatcher. And that was the era that saw Major elected too - hardly the most charasmatic leader. Perhaps image just wasn't as important back then. Maybe it isn't now but we're just led to believe it is? Perhaps a leader capable of energising apathetic voters could shake things up despite looking like a university professor approaching retirement Yes he was undermined by the SDP - and the militants in his own party - but his public persona was disastrous in the election. I remember him on TV and he had the weirdest way of emphasising words and running sentences together. He was rhe antithesis of soundbites. He also looked like a mad professor who'd stolen his clothes off a tramp. As I recall it he got eaten alive by Maggie, the Press and his own party. The 83 election was a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4386 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Having won a "war" was a huge factor as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44894 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/19/leak-eveal-labour-ignored-legal-membership#img-1 The picture on that article man. Whoever told these cunts that holding your hand like that is preferable to just pointing wants their arse kicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDimpleboy 0 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Getting pretty boring on Twitter seeing people that actively campaigned for/were members of the SWP, Greens, Communists, SPG, Respect etc at the general election act outraged at being denied a vote in the leadership election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Who was it that went to see Corbyn the other night? Was he any good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDimpleboy 0 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Who was it that went to see Corbyn the other night? Was he any good? Was meant to be me but I gave it to a lad off Twitter as I was still feeling rough from the previous night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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