The Labour Leadership Campaign

[Alex 35083]

I would imagine lots of people will take up the extra childcare that has to be offered. Assuming they do, do you think there will be anything like double the amount of teachers, classroom assistants and, for that matter, classrooms? Will there be double the funding available? If not, how do you expect these nurseries to cope with the extra workload?

The floor is yours, CT.

[Meenzer 15531]

Come on, your clever than this.

 

Bootiful.

[Alex 35083]

Come on, your clever than this.

 

You know fine well this a very leftish board and I could discuss politics til the cows come home and it would go the same way. "Cunt", "cretin" etc etc.

 

It's a blood sport not a discussion.

You've just made my point for me with a perfect example of what I was talking about.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Maybe some of you would do well to read this.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/jun/05/why-working-class-people-vote-conservative

[Meenzer 15531]

Maybe some of you would do well to read this.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/jun/05/why-working-class-people-vote-conservative

 

Which paragraph do you think contains the most salient point?

[Gemmill 44894]

You aren't discussing anything, you tapered bellend. This is the sort of intellect that comes from proudly proclaiming yourself a non-reader.

[Alex 35083]

I would love to believe this is self-parody now, CT. Past experience suggests otherwise though.

[Alex 35083]

CT is so interested in serious political debate that, when he asked about specific points he's raised in this thread, he tells people to read an article about voter patterns in America. And he thinks people go out of their way to try and make him look stupid. Why would anyone need to bother?

[Meenzer 15531]

He's going to tell us the most salient point from that article though. Soon.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

I would imagine lots of people will take up the extra childcare that has to be offered. Assuming they do, do you think there will be anything like double the amount of teachers, classroom assistants and, for that matter, classrooms? Will there be double the funding available? If not, how do you expect these nurseries to cope with the extra workload?

The floor is yours, CT.

As with all big steps like this there will no doubt be teething issues. They have said more funding will be available, are consulting with nursery associations and trailing it a year before it's due to start.

 

We'll probably see a growth in the number of private nurseries.

[Alex 35083]

As with all big steps like this there will no doubt be teething issues. They have said more funding will be available, are consulting with nursery associations and trailing it a year before it's due to start.

 

We'll probably see a growth in the number of private nurseries.

So they've announced it without saying how it's going to be funded or implemented then.

[Gemmill 44894]

He even answers these questions like Cameron's assistant.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

I think the last few pages demonstrate the lack of interest in political debate perfectly.

 

You sit in your left wing deluded moral high ground comfort blankets hoping to catch me out on a fine detail here or there.

 

Meenzer and Gemmil like the two old men in the muppets waddling in with the odd hurled tomato but absolutely zero of interest to say.

 

It really is comical

 

Maybe you should just discuss it with yourselves so you can congratulate each other on having all the answers.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

So they've announced it without saying how it's going to be funded or implemented then.

No.

 

"The 30 hours of childcare would be paid for by restricting pension tax relief for people with incomes of over £150,000".

[toonotl 2980]

I think the last few pages demonstrate the lack of interest in political debate perfectly.

 

Couldn't agree more.

[Meenzer 15531]

Maybe some of you would do well to read this.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/jun/05/why-working-class-people-vote-conservative

 

I'm not particularly left-wing. Anyway, which paragraph in this link do you think contains the most salient point to the discussion here?

[Alex 35083]

No.

 

"The 30 hours of childcare would be paid for by restricting pension tax relief for people with incomes of over £150,000".

OK. I find it difficult to believe that'll cover it though. Will it cover the extra amount of staff required? How do they know how many people will take it up? What provision has been made to train the extra staff required? Does that cover an ever increasing population? Where will the extra classroom space be found, etc., etc.? I think it's a nice idea in principle but I would rather have 15 hours of free childcare that is good than 30 hours of a far inferior 'product' (for want of a better word). Are the school and / or local authorities being given all this money? Where are the figures that show they've worked out how much they think this will all cost. I don't expect you to provide that but surely you can understand the cynicism around an announcement like this in a climate where efforts are being made to drastically reduce public spending.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

OK. I find it difficult to believe that'll cover it though. Will it cover the extra amount of staff required? How do they know how many people will take it up? What provision has been made to train the extra staff required? Does that cover an ever increasing population? Where will the extra classroom space be found, etc., etc.? I think it's a nice idea in principle but I would rather have 15 hours of free childcare that is good than 30 hours of a far inferior 'product' (for want of a better word). Are the school and / or local authorities being given all this money? Where are the figures that show they've worked out how much they think this will all cost. I don't expect you to provide that but surely you can understand the cynicism around an announcement like this in a climate where efforts are being made to drastically reduce public spending.

I definitely don't have those answer and neither do the government fully which why they are trailing it. Hopefully a trail will address any shortcomings.

 

Cameron has said himself it will take time to get it right.

 

Part of the idea behind it is allowing more people to get into work, particularly single parents. (It was welcomed by the gingerbread charity).

 

But as you say, the proof of the pudding will be wether parents feel the care is suitable. If it's not then they won't leave their kids, defeating the back to work principal.

 

You would also hope that as the economy continues to improve, more money will come into the coffers of central and local government.

[Alex 35083]

Another thing which makes me slightly suspicious about the 'planning' of this is that the 30 hours of free childcare was announced ONE FUCKING DAY AFTER Labour said they would increase it to 25 hours during the run in to the last election.

[Alex 35083]

I definitely don't have those answer and neither do the government fully which why they are trailing it. Hopefully a trail will address any shortcomings.

 

Cameron has said himself it will take time to get it right.

 

Part of the idea behind it is allowing more people to get into work, particularly single parents. (It was welcomed by the gingerbread charity).

 

But as you say, the proof of the pudding will be wether parents feel the care is suitable. If it's not then they won't leave their kids, defeating the back to work principal.

 

You would also hope that as the economy continues to improve, more money will come into the coffers of central and local government.

I sincerely hope it does it work well. I think we can both agree on that.

[Happy Face 29]

I think the last few pages demonstrate the lack of interest in political debate perfectly.

 

You sit in your left wing deluded moral high ground comfort blankets hoping to catch me out on a fine detail here or there.

 

Meenzer and Gemmil like the two old men in the muppets waddling in with the odd hurled tomato but absolutely zero of interest to say.

 

It really is comical [emoji38]

 

Maybe you should just discuss it with yourselves so you can congratulate each other on having all the answers. [emoji38]

Over a decade ago, in my early twenties, I started posting on forums with no interest whatsoever in politics or world affairs. Well informed discussions on these topics are rare in my real life circles.

 

I still have very little knowledge of it whatsoever compared to most and struggle to find a catch all position I am comfortable with that I can say defines my politics. But genuine debate both here and on N-O gave me a far greater appreciation for numerous subjects. Whether directly from some of the more clued up people that post or from the reading I did on the back of discussions so that I could be involved.

 

I've nothing but gratitude and appreciation for some of the most annoying posters there's been (Fop springs to mind) for just taking the opposing view and arguing for it until they were blue in the face. They provided me an education even while I disagreed entirely.

 

Talking to you on the other hand, I only come away feeling stupider.

 

I'd life you to engage with some of the points made and make an effective counter argument. There always is one. That way there's a chance I could learn something.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Over a decade ago, in my early twenties, I started posting on forums with no interest whatsoever in politics or world affairs. Well informed discussions on these topics are rare in my real life circles.

 

I still have very little knowledge of it whatsoever compared to most and struggle to find a catch all position I am comfortable with that I can say defines my politics. But genuine debate both here and on N-O gave me a far greater appreciation for numerous subjects. Whether directly from some of the more clued up people that post or from the reading I did on the back of discussions so that I could be involved.

 

I've nothing but gratitude and appreciation for some of the most annoying posters there's been (Fop springs to mind) for just taking the opposing view and arguing for it until they were blue in the face. They provided me an education even while I disagreed entirely.

 

Talking to you on the other hand, I only come away feeling stupider.

 

I'd life you to engage with some of the points made and make an effective counter argument. There always is one. That way there's a chance I could learn something.

I'll discuss anything as I have just done with Alex on childcare.

 

What you want is something totally different demonstrated perfectly well by your opening post on this with the little dig.

 

It's boring mate.

 

Virtually very little opposing political discussion takes place here because it always goes the same tedious way.

 

The points I made were accurate.

 

I'm sure in most reasonable forums you would be laughed out of town for comparing a few seconded pilots to an illegal war that cost millions of lives.

 

I have no interest whatsoever in wasting my time debating at that level.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Christmas Tree

[Happy Face 29]

I'll discuss anything as I have just done with Alex on childcare.

 

What you want is something totally different demonstrated perfectly well by your opening post on this with the little dig.

 

It's boring mate.

 

Virtually very little opposing political discussion takes place here because it always goes the same tedious way.

 

The points I made were accurate.

 

I'm sure in most reasonable forums you would be laughed out of town for comparing a few seconded pilots to an illegal war that cost millions of lives.

 

I have no interest whatsoever in wasting my time debating at that level.

 

Tony Blair had a vote in commons on the legality of his war. The vote was based on misinformation, but all members were able to judge the evidence and vote with their conscience.

 

91.4% of conservatives voted in favour.

 

83.2% of Labour voted for it.

 

David Cameron himself voted yes

 

http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2003-03-18&number=118&display=allpossible

 

Cameron didn't offer any vote for action in Syria.

 

When we decide to bomb another country, UK law demands a vote. So only Blair stayed on the right side of that one.

 

International law is another matter, but neither of them are on solid ground there either.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/islamic-state-air-strikes-on-isis-in-syria-could-be-illegal-9734474.html

[Christmas Tree 4725]

 

Tony Blair had a vote in commons on the legality of his war. The vote was based on misinformation , but all members were able to judge the evidence and vote with their conscience.

 

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on here.

[Meenzer 15531]

So, again, that link...?