JJ 0 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 It's electoral suicide. I'm assuming that's a given? Could just keep abstaining from everything important, thus enabling the Tories to get through their worst policies, and then kid themselves that working class people didn't vote for them because they weren't pro business enough, like Ed Balls thinks. That should fix everything. People can assume that Labour actually trying to be Labour again in electoral suicide, but no-one can pretend that what they are doing right now is anywhere close to successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17274 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 That might not be the point...if Corbin wins does it drag the debate Labour is having with itself (and by default with the face it wants to show the British public) to the left? will they have to move away from disappearing up the tories' arse? saying austerity is a lie isn't necessarily an extreme position, regardless of what the ideology of the SNP's more hardcore membership is, their mouthpeices have sold that idea brilliantly to 5 million people. I think that's an impossilble trick to pull in England but I also thought the SNP were a joke 5 years ago too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) That might not be the point...if Corbin wins does it drag the debate Labour is having with itself (and by default with the face it wants to show the British public) to the left? will they have to move away from disappearing up the tories' arse? saying austerity is a lie isn't necessarily an extreme position,And that is why Corbyn got nominated in the first place, Labour MPs didn't want him to win but they nominated him to encourage the debate that was badly needed. He could well have the best policies but his image is that of a substitute geography teacher, not a national leader, and that won't change. Edited August 2, 2015 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 People can assume that Labour actually trying to be Labour again in electoral suicide, but no-one can pretend that what they are doing right now is anywhere close to successful. But there is a middle ground there and that's the only way that Labour will win the next election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17274 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 And that is why Corbyn got nominated in the first place, Labour MPs didn't want him to win but they nominated him to encourage the debate that was badly needed. He could well have the best policies but his image is that of a substitute geography teacher, not a national leader, and that won't change. According to the press he's energising a lot of youngsters...am not suggesting for a second he could be elected as PM but if Davey Milliband turns up in a few years and takes the reigns of a carriage building some momentum and keeps it on course?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17274 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 But there is a middle ground there and that's the only way that Labour will win the next election. But the middle ground is nowhere near the current government. Theres a vote in 2017 to leave the EU. That's nowhere near the middle ground of post European poitics. Labour do occupy closer to the middle ground as we speak but the government has moved so far to the fuckin right with barely a murmur from a shitty complacent media (including the "loonie lefties" at the BBC), that its making Thatcherism look like a benign, fleeting period of calm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I'm not so sure about that. He really could isolate a lot of middle ground voters for the next decade or more. CT has been crowing about it for a while but he's right in that Labour don't really have any inspirational figures to light a fire under the voters. Saying that I do believe that Corbyn is a man of principle and integrity but men like that won't appeal to the masses. Humans are selfish by their nature and are only getting more so, the general electorate will not buy what Corbyn is trying to sell them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4386 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 And that is why Corbyn got nominated in the first place, Labour MPs didn't want him to win but they nominated him to encourage the debate that was badly needed. He could well have the best policies but his image is that of a substitute geography teacher, not a national leader, and that won't change. As opposed to the image of the others as less than faux Tory bastards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I've already said that the alternatives are less than inspiring but I don't think they'll do the damage that Corbyn will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17274 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I'm not so sure about that. He really could isolate a lot of middle ground voters for the next decade or more. CT has been crowing about it for a while but he's right in that Labour don't really have any inspirational figures to light a fire under the voters. Saying that I do believe that Corbyn is a man of principle and integrity but men like that won't appeal to the masses. Humans are selfish by their nature and are only getting more so, the general electorate will not buy what Corbyn is trying to sell them. If Labour move to the left and win back 20-30 seats in doing so (mostly in Scotland, this is the SNP's nadir and if theyre being honest theyd admit it) its another hung parliament, that could prepare the ground for a Milliband victory. That's what i'd be telling them anyway.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I haven't done the maths but I'd imagine that a huge shift to the left would see gains in Scotland but an awful lot of losses in England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Ewerk is, in my opinion, right about Corbyn's prospects. He isn't going to win an election. I'm going to vote for him anyway though because I'm sick to fuck of voting for things I don't believe in just to keep greater evils at bay. If this country wants the Tories and all the shit that goes with it then fine - the truth is that most people are too easily led by the media; as a result, it makes no fucking difference who Labour has as a leader as long as the Mail has the power to pull millions of utter fuckwits to the right of centre over things as trivial to their day to day lives as immigrants and benefits cheats. Given that there's nothing Labour can do about this mass stupidity except play up to it with their policies, they'd be forced into Tory-esque positions if they elect a centre ground candidate in order to have any chance of winning - as has been evidenced already, and which does no one who truly wants something that even looks like a centre-left party, let alone a left wing party, any good whatsoever. Fuck that. That's the Tories winning by default. If they (the Tories) want to win, if they want their divisive and unequal policies to be implemented, better that they do it themselves so that in the long run, when people wake up (or enough Tory voting old people die), they'll be seen for what they are. Even from an entirely pragmatic point of view, Labour should stick to their principles on the grounds that the Tories have done such a good job capturing the 'middle ground'. Labour have very little room for maneouvre there anyway. So why not Corbyn? At least he'd give us a party that understood what it stood for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 If Labour move to the left and win back 20-30 seats in doing so (mostly in Scotland, this is the SNP's nadir and if theyre being honest theyd admit it) its another hung parliament, that could prepare the ground for a Milliband victory. That's what i'd be telling them anyway.... Not a prayer D Milliband is coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 I haven't done the maths but I'd imagine that a huge shift to the left would see gains in Scotland but an awful lot of losses in England. Even a big swing to the left won't recapture Scotland. The SNP have to really do something disastrous. It won't happen in the next 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17274 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Not a prayer D Milliband is coming back. Ok Dimbleby, let us into the secret... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17274 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Even a big swing to the left won't recapture Scotland. The SNP have to really do something disastrous. It won't happen in the next 5 years. There doesn't have to be a big swing,the Tory majority is only 12. They won nine seats from Labour in England, and am not sure if you know much about what the SNP core leadership truly stand for besides independence? They are a fair bit further to the left of the current labour national leadership to say the least. All Corbyn has to do is position Labour as anti austerity and he's getting a huge amount of labours core Scottish vote in the central belt back at the next election. The SNP can't go from 6 seats and 20% of the vote to wiping the floor seat wise but with a lot of very marginal seats without a fair few going back to what they know when a proper lefties shunts the gig west .All a London PR smoothie needs to do at that point is keep going down that track and they'll have a major chance after over a decade of the Tories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7030 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Iirc 35% of the electorate didn't vote. That's who Corbin needs to be targeting, not the 5-10% of knackers who deserted Labour to Tory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 Ok Dimbleby, let us into the secret... He's yesterday's man. Labour will be lose yet again in 2020 and it will be time for fresh blood not a return to the distant past. Two things need to happen for them to have a chance in 2025. 1. Some of the younger cream rise to the top. 2. More importantly the party survives a swing to the left and doesn't break up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4386 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Iirc 35% of the electorate didn't vote. That's who Corbin needs to be targeting, not the 5-10% of knackers who deserted Labour to ToryThat's what I was getting at and I think that's where a lot of his support is coming from, especially young people fucked over by the Tories. Ridiculously hopeful of course, but it would be great if all those telegraph cunts who supposedly signed up to vote for him to fuck labour, actually elected someone who could win. I think as Andrew said, it would be good if a labour party could win over people "properly" instead of demeaning themselves to chase mail/sun readers like Blair did and Brown tried to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Need to wipe out the SNP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 For Labour to win and overturn a 12 seat majority the main thing that needs to happen is for the Tories to fuck up massively which they probably will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Iirc 35% of the electorate didn't vote. That's who Corbin needs to be targeting, not the 5-10% of knackers who deserted Labour to Tory Voter turnout at the last election has higher than the three previous elections. It was probably the high voter turnout in Scotland that did for Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 For Labour to win and overturn a 12 seat majority the main thing that needs to happen is for the Tories to fuck up massively which they probably will. What sort of fuck up? They didn't hide the fact that they were cunts before the election and they only benefited from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 What sort of fuck up? They didn't hide the fact that they were cunts before the election and they only benefited from that. Being cunts isn't a fuck up. I mean brown paper bag fuck ups. Or maybe a current cabinet member being a paedo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4386 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Or just a huge split over the referendum. No kids harmed apart from the ones in poverty obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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