Protests in Greece

[Happy Face 29]

At least three people have been killed in the Greek capital as protesters set fire to a bank during a general strike over planned austerity measures.

 

The fire brigade said three bodies were found inside the Marfin bank in Athens. Two other buildings are also on fire.

 

Petrol bombs were thrown at police who responded with pepper spray, tear gas and stun grenades.

 

Protesters are angered by spending cuts and tax rises planned in return for a 110bn euro (£95bn) bail-out for Greece.

 

Parliament is to vote on the measures by the end of the week.

 

Measures include wage freezes, pension cuts and tax rises. They aim to achieve fresh budget cuts of 30bn euros over three years, with the goal of cutting Greece's public deficit to less than 3% of GDP by 2014. It currently stands at 13.6%.

 

Outside parliament, a group of protesters rushed up a flight of steps, taunting MPs to come out and calling them "thieves".

 

Riot police forced them back, but right next to parliament, others groups set buildings on fire - including a tax office.

 

The Greek protesters' ire is aimed against symbols of capitalism, says the BBC's Malcolm Brabant in Athens.

 

Our correspondent says the deaths will change the equation, increasing pressure Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou who has spoken of "great sacrifices" needed.

 

But it may also create a backlash against violent protesters, our correspondent says.

 

The general strike is the third to hit Greece in as many months.

 

Merkel urges support for Greece

Meanwhile, the German parliament has begun considering the bail-out plan for Greece.

 

Chancellor Angela Merkel urged MPs to back the emergency loan package agreed by European finance ministers at the weekend.

 

It requires Germany to pay the largest proportion of the loans.

 

"Quite simply, Europe's future is at stake," she said.

 

The EU has agreed to provide 80bn euros (£69bn) in funding - of which around 22bn euros would come from Germany - while the rest will come from the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

 

'Concern'

 

Flights in and out of Greece stopped at midnight, and trains and ferries were not running. Schools, hospitals, and many offices are shut.

 

The government has appealed to demoralised staff in the military, police, schools and hospitals not to retire, fearing the surge in demand for benefits could further drain treasury resources.

 

I'm feeling more and more angry every day, because those who got us into this mess are not held responsible

Thrasyvo Paxinos

Teacher

 

Foreign governments and investors are watching events in Greece with concern.

 

Chris Lowe of FTN Financial in New York told the BBC that the US financial community had been shocked by the violent protests.

 

"The [uS] reaction is that [Greek] people will simply refuse to accept the austerity plan," he said.

 

"If the Greeks are this upset, then maybe we need to worry about the Portuguese and Spanish and Italians being upset with the cuts they're going to have to make."

 

Union leaders say the cuts target low-income Greeks.

 

"There are other things the [government] can do, before taking money from a pensioner who earns 500 euros (£430) a month," Spyros Papaspyros, leader of the public servants' union ADEDY, told Greek private television.

 

What went wrong in Greece?

 

Greece's economic reforms that led to it abandoning the drachma in favour of the euro in 2002 made it easier for the country to borrow money.

 

Greece went on a debt-funded spending spree, including high-profile projects such as the 2004 Athens Olympics, which went well over budget.

 

It was hit by the downturn, which meant it had to spend more on benefits and received less in taxes. There were also doubts about the accuracy of its economic statistics.

 

There have been demonstrations against the government's austerity measures to deal with its 300bn euro (£267bn) debt, such as cuts to public sector pay.

 

Now the government has announced that it needs to access the 30bn euros (£26bn) in emergency loans it has been offered by other EU countries.

BACK 1 of 6 NEXT In Athens, Greeks spoke of their anger at the tough economic measures.

 

Businessman Dmitris Mentis told the BBC that wealthy Greeks had to pay their "fair share of the burden".

 

"The rich class has been evading taxes for decades now," he said.

 

Athens-based journalist Christos Michaelides told the BBC: "There is a big fear in the whole of society - a sense of injustice in most of the measures.

 

"There is a fear that things could get very, very ugly if people don't feel that what they are doing now, in these austerity measures, is going to be worthwhile."

 

On Tuesday, several thousand teachers and students marched to parliament carrying black flags and banners.

 

The demonstration was largely peaceful but some scuffles broke out near the parliament building.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8661385.stm

 

Free market policies which benefit private businesses pushed through while citizens are busy reacting to a rough crisis.

 

The Shock Doctrine in action.

[ChezGiven 0]

I wonder how much of a stomach the Tories will have for sweeping spending cuts on friday morning?

[Happy Face 29]

1929 October -- The stock market crashes, marking the end of six years of unparalleled prosperity for most sectors of the American economy.

 

1931 February -- "Food riots" begin to break out in parts of the U.S. Resentment of "foreign" workers increases along with unemployment rolls. In Los Angeles, California, Mexican Americans found themselves being accused of stealing jobs from "real" Americans. During the month, 6,024 of them were deported.

 

Seems it always takes a couple of years...

 

 

September 2008 - the shit hits the fan

 

April 2010 - Riots in Greece and Arizona SB 1070 makes it a state misdemeanor crime for an alien to be in Arizona without carrying legal documents.

 

 

All just little bits of history repeating.

[The Fish 11080]

serves em roight for fahkin' boys back in the day /Mail

[Park Life 71]

Portugal next. I said two years ago this whole Euro lark is fucked. The Germans should stay out of it.

[Billy Castell 0]

serves em roight for fahkin' boys back in the day /Mail

 

I'm thinking of that episode of Father Ted with the Chinese family now. That mad woman who's standing in the mud shouting "Good for you Father, we should be racist to the Greeks. They invented gayness."

[AgentAxeman 199]

Portugal next. I said two years ago this whole Euro lark is fucked. The Germans should stay out of it.

 

 

too late bonny lad. its already been decided.

 

re the bolded bit, i totally agree. thank the lord the uk has (so far) resisted the clamour to join it.

[Renton 22437]

A bit too soon to write the obituary on the euro just yet, I'd be willing to bet it will survive this (possibly without Greece) and the UK will ultimately join at some stage. We would have been shagged had we been members during this particular recession like, but then we never made Labours own entry criteria in any case. The projects just been delayed by a couple of decades, that's all.

[Billy Castell 0]

If Spain goes, especially after the paddies and the Portugeuse then the Euro is truely fucked. Germany should bring back the mark and ditch the flotsam sharpish.

[Kitman 2207]

The Greeks are revolting. But the Albanians are worse.

 

 

I'll get me coat.

[Park Life 71]

If Spain goes, especially after the paddies and the Portugeuse then the Euro is truely fucked. Germany should bring back the mark and ditch the flotsam sharpish.

 

Yup.

[AgentAxeman 199]

If Spain goes, especially after the paddies and the Portugeuse then the Euro is truely fucked. Germany should bring back the mark and ditch the flotsam sharpish.

 

Yup.

 

 

nothing would please me more

 

[Renton 22437]

If Spain goes, especially after the paddies and the Portugeuse then the Euro is truely fucked. Germany should bring back the mark and ditch the flotsam sharpish.

 

Yup.

 

 

nothing would please me more

 

 

Prepare not to be pleased then. Do you seriously think the euro would die in the core nations? Up until recently its been a comparative success hasn't it? There's far too much invested in it now in any case, both economically and politically, it won't be allowed to fail.

[Park Life 71]

If Spain goes, especially after the paddies and the Portugeuse then the Euro is truely fucked. Germany should bring back the mark and ditch the flotsam sharpish.

 

Yup.

 

 

nothing would please me more

 

 

Prepare not to be pleased then. Do you seriously think the euro would die in the core nations? Up until recently its been a comparative success hasn't it? There's far too much invested in it now in any case, both economically and politically, it won't be allowed to fail.

 

The whole of Wall Street smell blood and will continue going after the Euro and ramping rates up against Soverign debt against Euro countries in trouble. There is no way we/Portugal/Spain/Greece can keep borrowing to fill said black hole. Euro is fucked. As I predicted. It's either the dollar or Euro people normally hedge against and it looks like the way the U.S. just magic up money, the Euro is looking the easier target to the hedge funds and intra-bank/ govt bond markets. Welcome to Capitalism.

[Renton 22437]

If Spain goes, especially after the paddies and the Portugeuse then the Euro is truely fucked. Germany should bring back the mark and ditch the flotsam sharpish.

 

Yup.

 

 

nothing would please me more

 

 

Prepare not to be pleased then. Do you seriously think the euro would die in the core nations? Up until recently its been a comparative success hasn't it? There's far too much invested in it now in any case, both economically and politically, it won't be allowed to fail.

 

The whole of Wall Street smell blood and will continue going after the Euro and ramping rates up against Soverign debt against Euro countries in trouble. There is no way we/Portugal/Spain/Greece can keep borrowing to fill said black hole. Euro is fucked. As I predicted. It's either the dollar or Euro people normally hedge against and it looks like the way the U.S. just magic up money, the Euro is looking the easier target to the hedge funds and intra-bank/ govt bond markets. Welcome to Capitalism.

 

We'll see Parky, I've just noticed you've retracted your predicition for the General Election, so let's come back to this in 2 years.

 

It should be nothing for the euroskeptics to get all Scadenfreude over anyway, as what's bad for Europe (which this would be) is bad for us.

[adios 717]

Free market policies which benefit private businesses pushed through while citizens are busy reacting to a rough crisis.

 

The Shock Doctrine in action.

 

This has everything to do with big government and nothing to do with free market. Can you tell me what part of the above is free market policy?

[Rob W 0]

lets face it - the Gleeks decided to borrow cheap in Euros and not reform - there was an article about a committee which meets every so often and everyone gets a salary to look after a lake that's been dry for 60 years

 

You can do it for a while but, as we found out in the 70's reality comes a' callin eventually

[Park Life 71]

lets face it - the Gleeks decided to borrow cheap in Euros and not reform - there was an article about a committee which meets every so often and everyone gets a salary to look after a lake that's been dry for 60 years

 

You can do it for a while but, as we found out in the 70's reality comes a' callin eventually

 

At the end of the day how much revenue can you raise from kebab shops.

[ChezGiven 0]

lets face it - the Gleeks decided to borrow cheap in Euros and not reform - there was an article about a committee which meets every so often and everyone gets a salary to look after a lake that's been dry for 60 years

 

You can do it for a while but, as we found out in the 70's reality comes a' callin eventually

 

At the end of the day how much revenue can you raise from kebab shops.

 

Heres a daft idea, in addition to spending 120bn through the IMF and the ECB, why dont they invest some billions into giving discounts on holidays to Greece from other European countries? If you get an extra 1 million tourists into Greece, who each spend e.g. 1000 euros, with a multiplier of 2.5, that could inject 2.5bn into the Greek Economy, whilst generating value for the tourist tax-payer.

[Park Life 71]

lets face it - the Gleeks decided to borrow cheap in Euros and not reform - there was an article about a committee which meets every so often and everyone gets a salary to look after a lake that's been dry for 60 years

 

You can do it for a while but, as we found out in the 70's reality comes a' callin eventually

 

At the end of the day how much revenue can you raise from kebab shops.

 

Heres a daft idea, in addition to spending 120bn through the IMF and the ECB, why dont they invest some billions into giving discounts on holidays to Greece from other European countries? If you get an extra 1 million tourists into Greece, who each spend e.g. 1000 euros, with a multiplier of 2.5, that could inject 2.5bn into the Greek Economy, whilst generating value for the tourist tax-payer.

 

Nice.

 

Sure Alex will be all for it.

 

It will take 30 yrs to get Greece back to sq one apparently. Fahked.

[NJS 4446]

Heres a daft idea, in addition to spending 120bn through the IMF and the ECB, why dont they invest some billions into giving discounts on holidays to Greece from other European countries? If you get an extra 1 million tourists into Greece, who each spend e.g. 1000 euros, with a multiplier of 2.5, that could inject 2.5bn into the Greek Economy, whilst generating value for the tourist tax-payer.

 

My solution to Iceland's problems is heavily discounted tourism where you show a UK passport to get a "we own you" reduction in the cost of a pint or whatever - I'm sure 60% of the price as opposed to 0% would help.

[Toonpack 10411]

Should just write it all off, all global debt and start again. It's never ever going to be repaid anyway.

[Park Life 71]

The easiest solution would be to nationalise all the banks and tell the markets to fuck off like Mexico threatened (till U.S. bailed it out), like Argentina did in the late 70's...Build up the army and invade neighbours keep the populace occupied.

[Park Life 71]

Should just write it all off, all global debt and start again. It's never ever going to be repaid anyway.

 

Wot debt?

[ChezGiven 0]

Heres another question, which may be slightly less daft.

 

Who own all the debt? If the US is massively in debt, the Greeks, the Brits, the Irish, the Portuguese, the Spanish, the French, even the Germans etc are all in debt, to whom are they in debt to?

 

The banks? The Chinese? Who is owed the money? Lets find out an invade them....