Back to the future

[LeazesMag 0]

The Fish, on 17 April 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

 

 

brummiemag1, on 17 April 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

 

 

Baggio, on 17 April 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

 

 

This is spot on.

 

If we can't enjoy it while we're competing for a champions league place then what is the point of it all?

I think everyone is enjoying it, I certainly am. I can't imagine any Newcastle fans are not enjoying this season. But it shouldn't stop us talking and debating where the club is going in the longer term.

 

Its possible to enjoy it and still be very concerned that the excellent season we are having will not be sustained with the current policy of selling your best players and replacing them with lower cost alternatives.Thing is BM, we haven't replaced them with lower cost alternatives, we've replaced them with lower cost improvements and I think it's churlish to ignore that important factor.

 

It's like selling a clapped out Saxo for £3,500 and buying a BMW M3 for £1,000, a B&O Cinema system for £800, a gold plated unicorn for £500 and a bath filled of Malaysian orphans' tears for £700. We've vastly improved the squad and the coffers aren't empty and we've not had to borrow money from anyone who's going to charge us interest.

 

I'm happy to keep one eye on the fat man, I don't trust him entirely. You have to admit his policy seems to be working, even if we were to finish the season in 7th spot you'd have to admit that his 'Scout-hard, negotiate harder' system is paying dividends.

 

but we could have done even better, rather than look at the spare money. You do see this, don't you ?

 

 

And we could have spent all the money and done exactly the same or worse but you don't see that do you?

 

if you don't take a shot, you don't score a goal. You will have to understand, that not every transfer deal succeeds, nobody has ever had a 100% record. We could sign a duff player in August just like we could have done in January, so what is your point ?

 

Erm, you take your time, do your checks (due dilligence if you like) and minimise the risk.

 

indeed, so you sign the calibre of players I've just mentioned who helped us qualify for europe and the Champions League 10 times in 15 years ?

 

Did you know Chris Samba was sold in January ? Or is he the same as Boumsong ?

Edited April 17, 2012 by LeazesMag

[LeazesMag 0]

What if we sign a Boumsong in the summer ? Is it less likely than in January, for some obscure reason, or are you just being stupid ?

 

Aye, it is. Clubs are less likely to want to sell good players in January. Cisse was the Premier League's biggest signing in January - does that not suggest to you that it's perhaps a more difficult window to deal in? Or are you just being stupid?

 

No, I'm not being stupid. We could have bought a central defender last summer too........but didn't............or are you just being even more stupid and deluded than usual ?

 

Lets see what happens in the next couple of transfer deadlines eh ?

 

Some people are setting themselves up for a huge fall here like.

[BestBaNone 0]

Didn't Samba go to that Russian club that made Eto'o the world's highest paid player?

[Alex 34912]

We've been very successful with our transfer policy of late so whether you agree with it or not it's simply not realistic to expect that policy to be thrown out of the window for a player like Samba (age, wages too high etc.). He's a good player but he's certainly not the sort of player you'd break a wage structure for.

[Alex 34912]

 

Some people are setting themselves up for a huge fall here like.

Like you did when you said we'd never qualify for Europe via the league under Mike Ashley?

[LeazesMag 0]

if you don't take a shot, you don't score a goal. You will have to understand, that not every transfer deal succeeds, nobody has ever had a 100% record. We could sign a duff player in August just like we could have done in January, so what is your point ?

 

To further your analogy, you increase your chances of scoring a goal if you get closer to the nets. Do the homework, identify the best targets, take your time and you won't waste the opportunity. There is no need to spend every penny you have, just because it's in your pocket, just like it's not necessary to take a shot every time you see the goal.

 

What we've got now is a successful scouting network. Why the fuck would we render it useless by spunking cash at risky moves, when we could keep the powder dry and do our homework properly?

 

You wouldn't buy a house at an auction without having someone check it over, would you?

 

that depends if you think they are taking their time, or just don't intend to improve the team with it at all.

 

I know what I think. Lets wait and see shall we ? Some people will have to show the strength that Craig spoke about, and I don't think it will be me somehow. But neither do I think some people will have the balls to admit they are wrong anyway either.

[Baggio 0]

I agree with Fish and Baggio that the players we have brought in this season have been lower cost improvements as opposed to lower cost alternatives which was the word I used in an earlier post. And I also agree that lower cost doesn't mean inferior, of course not, and this season the policy appears to be working, its hard to argue that it isn't

 

Where I disagree is that I don't think we can continue to keep selling on our best players and replace them with lower cost improvements. I don't think we can expect to make further progress or even sustain our current position with that policy. Its worked in the short term but I cannot see how it can be sustained in the longer term.

 

Surely if it was that easy then every club would be doing it

 

Arsenal done it for years to be fair to them and I can't remember the last time they finished outside of the top 4.

 

I don't think we're in that much of a different position to most Premiership clubs who would sell if the price was right, the thing we have done different is come out and admitted that and I think that is down to the Carroll sale where nobody expected us to be offered that much.

 

The other thing to remember that in the background to this we've gone from a club losing a lot of money every year to one that is close to break even with cash available if we need it, what they should be looking to do from here is to make the club more profitable so they can sign players out of that and not rely on selling players to finance transfers.

[LeazesMag 0]

Some people are setting themselves up for a huge fall here like.

Like you did when you said we'd never qualify for Europe via the league under Mike Ashley?

 

yes like everyone else I am surprised and pleased this season, but it won't go any further, like other 2nd rate selling clubs who got so far then stopped improving and went back downwards again because they carried on behaving like 2nd rate selling clubs do.

[LeazesMag 0]

I agree with Fish and Baggio that the players we have brought in this season have been lower cost improvements as opposed to lower cost alternatives which was the word I used in an earlier post. And I also agree that lower cost doesn't mean inferior, of course not, and this season the policy appears to be working, its hard to argue that it isn't

 

Where I disagree is that I don't think we can continue to keep selling on our best players and replace them with lower cost improvements. I don't think we can expect to make further progress or even sustain our current position with that policy. Its worked in the short term but I cannot see how it can be sustained in the longer term.

 

Surely if it was that easy then every club would be doing it

 

Arsenal done it for years to be fair to them and I can't remember the last time they finished outside of the top 4.

 

I don't think we're in that much of a different position to most Premiership clubs who would sell if the price was right, the thing we have done different is come out and admitted that and I think that is down to the Carroll sale where nobody expected us to be offered that much.

 

The other thing to remember that in the background to this we've gone from a club losing a lot of money every year to one that is close to break even with cash available if we need it, what they should be looking to do from here is to make the club more profitable so they can sign players out of that and not rely on selling players to finance transfers.

 

Finding the new Arsene Wenger? Brilliant. Why didn't anybody else think of that

[Davey Dave 0]

Well, this 'ignore leazes' campaign is going well, isn't it?

[BestBaNone 0]

Did we improve every time we made progress under Shepherd and Hall? I seem to remember a summer window of free transfers (was it the Bowyer where we spent nothing at all, can't remember?) I remember panic buying via Souness after dropping out of the top 4 (after failure to improve when we were in it)

[Baggio 0]

Did we improve every time we made progress under Shepherd and Hall? I seem to remember a summer window of free transfers (was it the Bowyer where we spent nothing at all, can't remember?) I remember panic buying via Souness after dropping out of the top 4 (after failure to improve when we were in it)

 

Our league position didn't improve for more than 2 seasons running in the Premiership.

 

We either stayed still or fell backwards spectacularly.

[BestBaNone 0]

Oh dear Leazes.

[LeazesMag 0]

I agree with Fish and Baggio that the players we have brought in this season have been lower cost improvements as opposed to lower cost alternatives which was the word I used in an earlier post. And I also agree that lower cost doesn't mean inferior, of course not, and this season the policy appears to be working, its hard to argue that it isn't

 

Where I disagree is that I don't think we can continue to keep selling on our best players and replace them with lower cost improvements. I don't think we can expect to make further progress or even sustain our current position with that policy. Its worked in the short term but I cannot see how it can be sustained in the longer term.

 

Surely if it was that easy then every club would be doing it

 

Like they do, or have, that's the point that you and LM miss consistently. They all turn over their staff, always have, always will it is totally unavoidable unless you are Man U (and even they aren't exempt) Chelski or Man C.

 

Look at Arsenal last summer (and possibly this one with RVP)

 

what happened to spurs ? I thought you have always said we are doing things like Spurs now ?

[trophyshy 7073]

[LeazesMag 0]

Did we improve every time we made progress under Shepherd and Hall? I seem to remember a summer window of free transfers (was it the Bowyer where we spent nothing at all, can't remember?) I remember panic buying via Souness after dropping out of the top 4 (after failure to improve when we were in it)

 

we bought Woodgate in the January [not Boumsong ] in advance of qualifying for europe, and the summer transfer budget, and cemented our position in the CL places. Good planning and a good signing, wouldn't you agree ?

 

In the summer, they only signed Bowyer on a free, because they had not at that time qualified for the Champions League proper. However they didn't sell anybody either, and having an established top 4/5 team for a number of years expected to go through and would have done but for missed penalties. Of course, the board and signing Boumsong were responsible for Shearer etc missing penalties.....

 

Just refreshing any gaps in your knowledge by the way.

 

Anyway. I'm sure you wouldn't have wanted them to spend money they didn't have that summer, wouldn't you ?

Edited April 17, 2012 by LeazesMag

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3859]

The Fish, on 17 April 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

 

 

brummiemag1, on 17 April 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

 

 

Baggio, on 17 April 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

 

 

This is spot on.

 

If we can't enjoy it while we're competing for a champions league place then what is the point of it all?

I think everyone is enjoying it, I certainly am. I can't imagine any Newcastle fans are not enjoying this season. But it shouldn't stop us talking and debating where the club is going in the longer term.

 

Its possible to enjoy it and still be very concerned that the excellent season we are having will not be sustained with the current policy of selling your best players and replacing them with lower cost alternatives.Thing is BM, we haven't replaced them with lower cost alternatives, we've replaced them with lower cost improvements and I think it's churlish to ignore that important factor.

 

It's like selling a clapped out Saxo for £3,500 and buying a BMW M3 for £1,000, a B&O Cinema system for £800, a gold plated unicorn for £500 and a bath filled of Malaysian orphans' tears for £700. We've vastly improved the squad and the coffers aren't empty and we've not had to borrow money from anyone who's going to charge us interest.

 

I'm happy to keep one eye on the fat man, I don't trust him entirely. You have to admit his policy seems to be working, even if we were to finish the season in 7th spot you'd have to admit that his 'Scout-hard, negotiate harder' system is paying dividends.

 

but we could have done even better, rather than look at the spare money. You do see this, don't you ?

 

 

And we could have spent all the money and done exactly the same or worse but you don't see that do you?

 

if you don't take a shot, you don't score a goal. You will have to understand, that not every transfer deal succeeds, nobody has ever had a 100% record. We could sign a duff player in August just like we could have done in January, so what is your point ?

 

My point is you continually bang on about spending = progress. That is just not true. You can make progress by spending a lot of money see Man City. You can completely go the other way and spend a huge wodge and go backwards see Liverpool (this is their worst season in the premier league in about 7-8 years) The same as you can spend relatively little and make huge strides See Us. However you just bang on that spending money is a sign of ambition and the only way to guarantee progress.

[LeazesMag 0]

 

I'm giving factual information here. I wonder how many of those who are ignoring me will look

[LeazesMag 0]

The Fish, on 17 April 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

 

 

brummiemag1, on 17 April 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

 

 

Baggio, on 17 April 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

 

 

This is spot on.

 

If we can't enjoy it while we're competing for a champions league place then what is the point of it all?

I think everyone is enjoying it, I certainly am. I can't imagine any Newcastle fans are not enjoying this season. But it shouldn't stop us talking and debating where the club is going in the longer term.

 

Its possible to enjoy it and still be very concerned that the excellent season we are having will not be sustained with the current policy of selling your best players and replacing them with lower cost alternatives.Thing is BM, we haven't replaced them with lower cost alternatives, we've replaced them with lower cost improvements and I think it's churlish to ignore that important factor.

 

It's like selling a clapped out Saxo for £3,500 and buying a BMW M3 for £1,000, a B&O Cinema system for £800, a gold plated unicorn for £500 and a bath filled of Malaysian orphans' tears for £700. We've vastly improved the squad and the coffers aren't empty and we've not had to borrow money from anyone who's going to charge us interest.

 

I'm happy to keep one eye on the fat man, I don't trust him entirely. You have to admit his policy seems to be working, even if we were to finish the season in 7th spot you'd have to admit that his 'Scout-hard, negotiate harder' system is paying dividends.

 

but we could have done even better, rather than look at the spare money. You do see this, don't you ?

 

 

And we could have spent all the money and done exactly the same or worse but you don't see that do you?

 

if you don't take a shot, you don't score a goal. You will have to understand, that not every transfer deal succeeds, nobody has ever had a 100% record. We could sign a duff player in August just like we could have done in January, so what is your point ?

 

My point is you continually bang on about spending = progress. That is just not true. You can make progress by spending a lot of money see Man City. You can completely go the other way and spend a huge wodge and go backwards see Liverpool (this is their worst season in the premier league in about 7-8 years) The same as you can spend relatively little and make huge strides See Us. However you just bang on that spending money is a sign of ambition and the only way to guarantee progress.

 

the successful clubs, over the long term, have ALWAYS bought the best players, and always will. And made themselves more attractive to their current players, other players, and backed their managers. This is the truth, and no amount of delusion or hoping Mike Ashley has discovered a fantastic new way of doing it that nobody else has thought of is going to change that.

Edited April 17, 2012 by LeazesMag

[Gemmill 44497]

Fucking hell, there's more people engaging with the idiot than ever before.

 

You get the forum you deserve, people.

[BestBaNone 0]

If they'd 'improved' enough maybe it wouldn't have came down to a penalty shoot-out against a team of nobodies.

 

 

So you are defending them for not spending money they didn't have? Maybe they'd have had some if they weren't 'pocketing the cash' through dividends and warehouses huh? That's a fact, by the way. What facts can you provide that Ashley has taken anything out of the club?

[LeazesMag 0]

If they'd 'improved' enough maybe it wouldn't have came down to a penalty shoot-out against a team of nobodies.

 

 

So you are defending them for not spending money they didn't have? Maybe they'd have had some if they weren't 'pocketing the cash' through dividends and warehouses huh? That's a fact, by the way. What facts can you provide that Ashley has taken anything out of the club?

 

lets see if your man even attempts to improve the team to get where they did as often as they did first shall we ?

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3859]

[Christmas Tree 4711]

Cant quite understand the likes of Fish still banging out 2 or 3 paragraph long posts and expecting a reasoned discussion.

 

The bottom line is this.

 

Say we had managed to get through to the final of the FA Cup and in two weeks time we won it. It would be without doubt, the best footballing moment of my 46 years.

 

Within 48 hours he would be on here belittling the achievement.

[LeazesMag 0]

Fucking hell, there's more people engaging with the idiot than ever before.

 

You get the forum you deserve, people.

 

more childishness.

 

He just can't resist it can he

 

Maybe without the juvenile interruptions, people can have a good debate with me.