Back to the future

[Brock Manson 0]

 

 

exactly.

 

And you wonder why people are putting you on ignore!

 

you don't get the irony do you

 

Do enlighten me.

[brummiemag1 0]

I think it's canny sad that this is the sort of crack people are having on a NUFC forum when we're having our best season in absolutely ages. If you can't enjoy this, you might as well hoy the towel in.

 

This is spot on.

 

If we can't enjoy it while we're competing for a champions league place then what is the point of it all?

 

I think everyone is enjoying it, I certainly am. I can't imagine any Newcastle fans are not enjoying this season. But it shouldn't stop us talking and debating where the club is going in the longer term.

 

Its possible to enjoy it and still be very concerned that the excellent season we are having will not be sustained with the current policy of selling your best players and replacing them with lower cost alternatives.

[The Fish 10857]

I think it's canny sad that this is the sort of crack people are having on a NUFC forum when we're having our best season in absolutely ages. If you can't enjoy this, you might as well hoy the towel in.

 

This is spot on.

 

If we can't enjoy it while we're competing for a champions league place then what is the point of it all?

 

I think everyone is enjoying it, I certainly am. I can't imagine any Newcastle fans are not enjoying this season. But it shouldn't stop us talking and debating where the club is going in the longer term.

 

Its possible to enjoy it and still be very concerned that the excellent season we are having will not be sustained with the current policy of selling your best players and replacing them with lower cost alternatives.

Thing is BM, we haven't replaced them with lower cost alternatives, we've replaced them with lower cost improvements and I think it's churlish to ignore that important factor.

 

It's like selling a clapped out Saxo for £3,500 and buying a BMW M3 for £1,000, a B&O Cinema system for £800, a gold plated unicorn for £500 and a bath filled of Malaysian orphans' tears for £700. We've vastly improved the squad and the coffers aren't empty and we've not had to borrow money from anyone who's going to charge us interest.

 

I'm happy to keep one eye on the fat man, I don't trust him entirely. You have to admit his policy seems to be working, even if we were to finish the season in 7th spot you'd have to admit that his 'Scout-hard, negotiate harder' system is paying dividends.

[LeazesMag 0]

I think it's canny sad that this is the sort of crack people are having on a NUFC forum when we're having our best season in absolutely ages. If you can't enjoy this, you might as well hoy the towel in.

 

This is spot on.

 

If we can't enjoy it while we're competing for a champions league place then what is the point of it all?

 

I think everyone is enjoying it, I certainly am. I can't imagine any Newcastle fans are not enjoying this season. But it shouldn't stop us talking and debating where the club is going in the longer term.

 

Its possible to enjoy it and still be very concerned that the excellent season we are having will not be sustained with the current policy of selling your best players and replacing them with lower cost alternatives.

 

We have indeed.

 

However, probably, deep down, they KNOW that the only way forward from here is to do what you, I and a handful of others have been saying for ages, but don't want to admit it. Dr Gloom certainly knows it, he's been saying it himself for quite a while now.

 

As Craig said, admitting you are wrong isn't a sign of weakness but a sign of strength. [words to that effect as I'm sure somebody will attempt to quote].

 

Shame some people don't want to debate this and live in their little deluded world.

Edited April 17, 2012 by LeazesMag

[Alex 35095]

I think it's canny sad that this is the sort of crack people are having on a NUFC forum when we're having our best season in absolutely ages. If you can't enjoy this, you might as well hoy the towel in.

 

This is spot on.

 

If we can't enjoy it while we're competing for a champions league place then what is the point of it all?

 

I think everyone is enjoying it, I certainly am. I can't imagine any Newcastle fans are not enjoying this season. But it shouldn't stop us talking and debating where the club is going in the longer term.

 

Its possible to enjoy it and still be very concerned that the excellent season we are having will not be sustained with the current policy of selling your best players and replacing them with lower cost alternatives.

Aye, but that's all he goes on about. You only post to back him up as well.

[LeazesMag 0]

 

This is spot on.

 

If we can't enjoy it while we're competing for a champions league place then what is the point of it all?

 

I think everyone is enjoying it, I certainly am. I can't imagine any Newcastle fans are not enjoying this season. But it shouldn't stop us talking and debating where the club is going in the longer term.

 

Its possible to enjoy it and still be very concerned that the excellent season we are having will not be sustained with the current policy of selling your best players and replacing them with lower cost alternatives.

Thing is BM, we haven't replaced them with lower cost alternatives, we've replaced them with lower cost improvements and I think it's churlish to ignore that important factor.

 

It's like selling a clapped out Saxo for £3,500 and buying a BMW M3 for £1,000, a B&O Cinema system for £800, a gold plated unicorn for £500 and a bath filled of Malaysian orphans' tears for £700. We've vastly improved the squad and the coffers aren't empty and we've not had to borrow money from anyone who's going to charge us interest.

 

I'm happy to keep one eye on the fat man, I don't trust him entirely. You have to admit his policy seems to be working, even if we were to finish the season in 7th spot you'd have to admit that his 'Scout-hard, negotiate harder' system is paying dividends.

 

but we could have done even better, rather than look at the spare money. You do see this, don't you ?

[Baggio 0]

I think it's canny sad that this is the sort of crack people are having on a NUFC forum when we're having our best season in absolutely ages. If you can't enjoy this, you might as well hoy the towel in.

 

This is spot on.

 

If we can't enjoy it while we're competing for a champions league place then what is the point of it all?

 

I think everyone is enjoying it, I certainly am. I can't imagine any Newcastle fans are not enjoying this season. But it shouldn't stop us talking and debating where the club is going in the longer term.

 

Its possible to enjoy it and still be very concerned that the excellent season we are having will not be sustained with the current policy of selling your best players and replacing them with lower cost alternatives.

 

What does it matter if the players coming in are lower cost to the one's going out though?

 

Lower cost doesn't always mean inferior, look at the players we've brought in for proof of that and while people think it can't go on forever I don't see why not, it's not as if the players we've signed over the past 2 years have been playing in unknown leagues is it.

 

What we've done is sign good players and given them the stage to perform on, that's what has pushed their value up that they're doing it in the Premiership.

 

Someone touched on a point yesterday that if we had paid £70 million for Cisse, Ba, Tiote, Cabaye and Ben Arfa pretty much everyone would be content, not only that but they would feel more secure in how we've done it rather than thinking we've got lucky.

[Alex 35095]

You can always improve on what you have but while a centre-back in January would've been great, Cisse has got us more points than we've lost due to playing Williamson (who's done ok in the last few games). Even Perch has played well there. We went for Mariappa as a stop gap and it didn't work out. We were just about the only top half side to improve / spend big in January and look where it's gotten us. Fair play to the owner on that score.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Hank

[Christmas Tree 4725]

 

Thing is BM, we haven't replaced them with lower cost alternatives, we've replaced them with lower cost improvements and I think it's churlish to ignore that important factor.

 

It's like selling a clapped out Saxo for £3,500 and buying a BMW M3 for £1,000, a B&O Cinema system for £800, a gold plated unicorn for £500 and a bath filled of Malaysian orphans' tears for £700. We've vastly improved the squad and the coffers aren't empty and we've not had to borrow money from anyone who's going to charge us interest.

 

I'm happy to keep one eye on the fat man, I don't trust him entirely. You have to admit his policy seems to be working, even if we were to finish the season in 7th spot you'd have to admit that his 'Scout-hard, negotiate harder' system is paying dividends.

 

Just what I was going to post however not in a million years would I have thought up such a fantastic visual feast of "a bath filled of Malaysian orphans' tears".

 

Excellent

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894]

The Fish, on 17 April 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

 

 

brummiemag1, on 17 April 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

 

 

Baggio, on 17 April 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

 

 

This is spot on.

 

If we can't enjoy it while we're competing for a champions league place then what is the point of it all?

I think everyone is enjoying it, I certainly am. I can't imagine any Newcastle fans are not enjoying this season. But it shouldn't stop us talking and debating where the club is going in the longer term.

 

Its possible to enjoy it and still be very concerned that the excellent season we are having will not be sustained with the current policy of selling your best players and replacing them with lower cost alternatives.Thing is BM, we haven't replaced them with lower cost alternatives, we've replaced them with lower cost improvements and I think it's churlish to ignore that important factor.

 

It's like selling a clapped out Saxo for £3,500 and buying a BMW M3 for £1,000, a B&O Cinema system for £800, a gold plated unicorn for £500 and a bath filled of Malaysian orphans' tears for £700. We've vastly improved the squad and the coffers aren't empty and we've not had to borrow money from anyone who's going to charge us interest.

 

I'm happy to keep one eye on the fat man, I don't trust him entirely. You have to admit his policy seems to be working, even if we were to finish the season in 7th spot you'd have to admit that his 'Scout-hard, negotiate harder' system is paying dividends.

 

but we could have done even better, rather than look at the spare money. You do see this, don't you ?

 

 

And we could have spent all the money and done exactly the same or worse but you don't see that do you?

[LeazesMag 0]

I'm pleased most people seem to agree what needs to be done in the summer. No reason why it couldn't have been done earlier though........is there ?

[Alex 35095]

I'm pleased most people seem to agree what needs to be done in the summer. No reason why it couldn't have been done earlier though........is there ?

There's several potential reasons. We're reputedly after Douglas and Pieters. The former has almost completed 5 years in Holland, at which point he can play for the national team and the latter was just recovering from a bad injury. You call people naive on one hand then go on like it's a piece of piss to sign all the targets you want. It's especially difficult in the January window as good players will often be at clubs who still have everything to play for.

[The Fish 10857]

 

but we could have done even better, rather than look at the spare money. You do see this, don't you ?

 

Your argument is flawed though Steve. There is literally no guarantee that spending more money would produce better results. Graham Carr has searched Europe and identified players that fit certain criteria. I can't say for sure what they are, but I'd assume some of the criteria would be along the lines of:

 

Young

Quality

Realistic prospect (not Messi,nor a couple of levels below him. We couldn't sign Vertoghen (without CL football) because he wants Champions League football), so we could attract them with facilities, playing staff, management staff and ambitions... not just wages.

The right personality, No Adebayors or Balotellis etc.

 

 

Now, if these are true, how many players do you believe there are out there that are all of these things? I would say it's a fairly limited field to pick from. Simply by fattening out the squad wouldn't guarantee 5th, 4th or 3rd. We're not there yet. You've got to walk before you can run.

 

You're approaching the whole transfer fund thing from the wrong angle. This isn't a season by season pot, this is a way to steadily improve the squad, without over-reaching, without shouldering the debts we incurred under the previous regime.

 

Another way to say it, we won nothing with the over-spending big name, big wage policy of the last regime, at the same time as we put ourselves in precarious financial position. Under this policy we seem to be achieving greats strides in the league and I've no fear about suffering on the pitch because of financial issues off it.

[BestBaNone 0]

I'm pleased most people seem to agree what needs to be done in the summer. No reason why it couldn't have been done earlier though........is there ?

 

 

So you'd rather not wait for the right centre half and end up with another Boumsong, then?

[LeazesMag 0]

The Fish, on 17 April 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

 

 

brummiemag1, on 17 April 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

 

 

Baggio, on 17 April 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

 

 

This is spot on.

 

If we can't enjoy it while we're competing for a champions league place then what is the point of it all?

I think everyone is enjoying it, I certainly am. I can't imagine any Newcastle fans are not enjoying this season. But it shouldn't stop us talking and debating where the club is going in the longer term.

 

Its possible to enjoy it and still be very concerned that the excellent season we are having will not be sustained with the current policy of selling your best players and replacing them with lower cost alternatives.Thing is BM, we haven't replaced them with lower cost alternatives, we've replaced them with lower cost improvements and I think it's churlish to ignore that important factor.

 

It's like selling a clapped out Saxo for £3,500 and buying a BMW M3 for £1,000, a B&O Cinema system for £800, a gold plated unicorn for £500 and a bath filled of Malaysian orphans' tears for £700. We've vastly improved the squad and the coffers aren't empty and we've not had to borrow money from anyone who's going to charge us interest.

 

I'm happy to keep one eye on the fat man, I don't trust him entirely. You have to admit his policy seems to be working, even if we were to finish the season in 7th spot you'd have to admit that his 'Scout-hard, negotiate harder' system is paying dividends.

 

but we could have done even better, rather than look at the spare money. You do see this, don't you ?

 

 

And we could have spent all the money and done exactly the same or worse but you don't see that do you?

 

if you don't take a shot, you don't score a goal. You will have to understand, that not every transfer deal succeeds, nobody has ever had a 100% record. We could sign a duff player in August just like we could have done in January, so what is your point ?

[LeazesMag 0]

I'm pleased most people seem to agree what needs to be done in the summer. No reason why it couldn't have been done earlier though........is there ?

 

 

So you'd rather not wait for the right centre half and end up with another Boumsong, then?

 

I was thinking more in terms of someone like Darren Peacock, Philipe Albert, Nicos Dabizas, Jonathon Woodgate to be honest.

 

What if we sign a Boumsong in the summer ? Is it less likely than in January, for some obscure reason, or are you just being stupid ?

Edited April 17, 2012 by LeazesMag

[Toonpack 9432]

The Fish, on 17 April 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

 

 

brummiemag1, on 17 April 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

 

 

Baggio, on 17 April 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

 

 

This is spot on.

 

If we can't enjoy it while we're competing for a champions league place then what is the point of it all?

I think everyone is enjoying it, I certainly am. I can't imagine any Newcastle fans are not enjoying this season. But it shouldn't stop us talking and debating where the club is going in the longer term.

 

Its possible to enjoy it and still be very concerned that the excellent season we are having will not be sustained with the current policy of selling your best players and replacing them with lower cost alternatives.Thing is BM, we haven't replaced them with lower cost alternatives, we've replaced them with lower cost improvements and I think it's churlish to ignore that important factor.

 

It's like selling a clapped out Saxo for £3,500 and buying a BMW M3 for £1,000, a B&O Cinema system for £800, a gold plated unicorn for £500 and a bath filled of Malaysian orphans' tears for £700. We've vastly improved the squad and the coffers aren't empty and we've not had to borrow money from anyone who's going to charge us interest.

 

I'm happy to keep one eye on the fat man, I don't trust him entirely. You have to admit his policy seems to be working, even if we were to finish the season in 7th spot you'd have to admit that his 'Scout-hard, negotiate harder' system is paying dividends.

 

but we could have done even better, rather than look at the spare money. You do see this, don't you ?

 

 

And we could have spent all the money and done exactly the same or worse but you don't see that do you?

 

if you don't take a shot, you don't score a goal. You will have to understand, that not every transfer deal succeeds, nobody has ever had a 100% record. We could sign a duff player in August just like we could have done in January, so what is your point ?

 

Erm, you take your time, do your checks (due dilligence if you like) and minimise the risk.

[brummiemag1 0]

I agree with Fish and Baggio that the players we have brought in this season have been lower cost improvements as opposed to lower cost alternatives which was the word I used in an earlier post. And I also agree that lower cost doesn't mean inferior, of course not, and this season the policy appears to be working, its hard to argue that it isn't

 

Where I disagree is that I don't think we can continue to keep selling on our best players and replace them with lower cost improvements. I don't think we can expect to make further progress or even sustain our current position with that policy. Its worked in the short term but I cannot see how it can be sustained in the longer term.

 

Surely if it was that easy then every club would be doing it

Edited April 17, 2012 by brummiemag1

[The Fish 10857]

 

 

if you don't take a shot, you don't score a goal. You will have to understand, that not every transfer deal succeeds, nobody has ever had a 100% record. We could sign a duff player in August just like we could have done in January, so what is your point ?

 

To further your analogy, you increase your chances of scoring a goal if you get closer to the nets. Do the homework, identify the best targets, take your time and you won't waste the opportunity. There is no need to spend every penny you have, just because it's in your pocket, just like it's not necessary to take a shot every time you see the goal.

 

What we've got now is a successful scouting network. Why the fuck would we render it useless by spunking cash at risky moves, when we could keep the powder dry and do our homework properly?

 

You wouldn't buy a house at an auction without having someone check it over, would you?

[Alex 35095]

The Fish, on 17 April 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

 

 

brummiemag1, on 17 April 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

 

 

Baggio, on 17 April 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

 

 

This is spot on.

 

If we can't enjoy it while we're competing for a champions league place then what is the point of it all?

I think everyone is enjoying it, I certainly am. I can't imagine any Newcastle fans are not enjoying this season. But it shouldn't stop us talking and debating where the club is going in the longer term.

 

Its possible to enjoy it and still be very concerned that the excellent season we are having will not be sustained with the current policy of selling your best players and replacing them with lower cost alternatives.Thing is BM, we haven't replaced them with lower cost alternatives, we've replaced them with lower cost improvements and I think it's churlish to ignore that important factor.

 

It's like selling a clapped out Saxo for £3,500 and buying a BMW M3 for £1,000, a B&O Cinema system for £800, a gold plated unicorn for £500 and a bath filled of Malaysian orphans' tears for £700. We've vastly improved the squad and the coffers aren't empty and we've not had to borrow money from anyone who's going to charge us interest.

 

I'm happy to keep one eye on the fat man, I don't trust him entirely. You have to admit his policy seems to be working, even if we were to finish the season in 7th spot you'd have to admit that his 'Scout-hard, negotiate harder' system is paying dividends.

 

but we could have done even better, rather than look at the spare money. You do see this, don't you ?

 

 

And we could have spent all the money and done exactly the same or worse but you don't see that do you?

 

if you don't take a shot, you don't score a goal. You will have to understand, that not every transfer deal succeeds, nobody has ever had a 100% record. We could sign a duff player in August just like we could have done in January, so what is your point ?

We took a punt on Cisse and he's been (so far) a massive success though. Not signing him and giving Watford an extra half a mill for Mariappa would've been a far safer bet so I don't see your point either.

[trophyshy 7083]

I agree with Fish and Baggio that the players we have brought in this season have been lower cost improvements as opposed to lower cost alternatives which was the word I used in an earlier post. And I also agree that lower cost doesn't mean inferior, of course not, and this season the policy appears to be working, its hard to argue that it isn't

 

Where I disagree is that I don't think we can continue to keep selling on our best players and replace them with lower cost improvements. I don't think we can expect to make further progress or even sustain our current position with that policy. Its worked in the short term but I cannot see how it can be sustained in the longer term.

 

Surely if it was that easy then every club would be doing it

 

We dismantled a Championship side and are now building a Champions League side, hopefully.

Edited April 17, 2012 by trophyshy

[Toonpack 9432]

I agree with Fish and Baggio that the players we have brought in this season have been lower cost improvements as opposed to lower cost alternatives which was the word I used in an earlier post. And I also agree that lower cost doesn't mean inferior, of course not, and this season the policy appears to be working, its hard to argue that it isn't

 

Where I disagree is that I don't think we can continue to keep selling on our best players and replace them with lower cost improvements. I don't think we can expect to make further progress or even sustain our current position with that policy. Its worked in the short term but I cannot see how it can be sustained in the longer term.

 

Surely if it was that easy then every club would be doing it

 

Like they do, or have, that's the point that you and LM miss consistently. They all turn over their staff, always have, always will it is totally unavoidable unless you are Man U (and even they aren't exempt) Chelski or Man C.

 

Look at Arsenal last summer (and possibly this one with RVP)

[Alex 35095]

I agree with Fish and Baggio that the players we have brought in this season have been lower cost improvements as opposed to lower cost alternatives which was the word I used in an earlier post. And I also agree that lower cost doesn't mean inferior, of course not, and this season the policy appears to be working, its hard to argue that it isn't

 

Where I disagree is that I don't think we can continue to keep selling on our best players and replace them with lower cost improvements. I don't think we can expect to make further progress or even sustain our current position with that policy. Its worked in the short term but I cannot see how it can be sustained in the longer term.

 

Surely if it was that easy then every club would be doing it

Just about everyone has expressed those concerns at some point. Just some of us aren't obsessing over it when we're level on points with the team in 4th with 5 games left.

[BestBaNone 0]

 

What if we sign a Boumsong in the summer ? Is it less likely than in January, for some obscure reason, or are you just being stupid ?

 

Aye, it is. Clubs are less likely to want to sell good players in January. Cisse was the Premier League's biggest signing in January - does that not suggest to you that it's perhaps a more difficult window to deal in? Or are you just being stupid?

[The Fish 10857]

Where I disagree is that I don't think we can continue to keep selling on our best players and replace them with lower cost improvements. I don't think we can expect to make further progress or even sustain our current position with that policy. Its worked in the short term but I cannot see how it can be sustained in the longer term.

 

Surely if it was that easy then every club would be doing it

I don't agree that we were selling the players who would have been our best players this season. Carroll and Enrique aside for the moment, we sold Nolan and released Barton. Two old(er) players who were on big wages and were improved upon.

 

I think Enrique was handled poorly, to be honest. I'm sure he's looking at Newcastle and thinking that he made the wrong decision. I know he's won a Carling cup, but given it's stature in the UK, I doubt it's a trophy that he dreamt of winning as a boy. I think either we didn't do a good enough job of convincing him to stay, or his agent/advisors did a good enough job to convince him to move.

 

Carroll is an anomaly and I swear you'd not find a team on the planet that wouldn't sell Andy Carroll for £35m.

 

I think we sold player who weren't going to be focal points for this season, an anomaly and we dropped the ball on Enrique.

 

That's not the same as saying we've a policy of selling our best players and replacing them.