Back to the future

[TheGreatNUFCSwindle 0]

Ok so, were promoted ... however , this time around we seem to be going up on a wave of apathy as opposed to messianic fervor. From Ashley on downwards .. prospects are being talked down ..as opposed to up. Thats applicable i suppose if you have crowds of 20,000 ...but at the very least , and even with the squad we have at the moment , if we dont aim for the top ten ... then fans are being duped . We at least have to aim that high ... if we fall short then so be it , but at least we could say we tried.What this club needs , what the fans demand ..is ambition .. that doesnt mean we expect to compete with Arsenal , etc ... but i'll be Donald Ducked if the height of our ambition ..is to compete with fuckin Wolves !

[Deano 0]

We will be competing with the likes of Wolves next season....for i understand your point i just think we need to be patient.

 

He are rebuilding and it takes time.

 

Stay up next season THEN season after look to 10th place finish and so on so forth.

[Christmas Tree 4856]

We will be competing with the likes of Wolves next season....for i understand your point i just think we need to be patient.

 

He are rebuilding and it takes time.

 

Stay up next season THEN season after look to 10th place finish and so on so forth.

 

 

+ 1

[TheGreatNUFCSwindle 0]

We need to look to Antonio Montana .."Fuck dee fuckin Wolves ..and fuck dee fuckin Boltons!!!!" ..."I bury those cockaroachees !!!"

[TheMoog 0]

We will be competing with the likes of Wolves next season....for i understand your point i just think we need to be patient.

 

He are rebuilding and it takes time.

 

Stay up next season THEN season after look to 10th place finish and so on so forth.

 

 

+ 1

 

Bloody jokers, the pair of you.

[Deano 0]

We will be competing with the likes of Wolves next season....for i understand your point i just think we need to be patient.

 

He are rebuilding and it takes time.

 

Stay up next season THEN season after look to 10th place finish and so on so forth.

 

 

+ 1

 

Bloody jokers, the pair of you.

 

Why?

[David Kelly 1260]

We may not be the most succesfull of clubs in England but we are one of the biggest (fans make clubs and we are and have always been,behind very few clubs on that score).

As such we shouldn't be looking to compete with Wolves, West Brom, Blackburn et al, we should be looking to get into Europe. I realise that due to the fuck ups towards the end of the previous regime and during the whole tenure so far of the current mob we have a lot of ground to make up but that is certainly what we should be aiming for.

Staying in the top division was our aim before Hall bought the club and look where that got us.

Personally I'm not expecting much from Ashley and as such, much more than staying up will be unlikely but personally finishing 17th will be a disapointment.

[dbsweeney 0]

I don't think there's apathy. I think there's realism.

 

Aim to not go down again ... but that doesn't mean if the club will acheves safety we'll put the breaks on getting any more wins.

 

EVERY team starts every game at least hoping for a win. Whether you get them or not a a different matter. But saying that because we are aiming for safety (whch we should be) means that's all we'll achieve is ridiculous.

 

If your talking about Ashley's spending etc. he's not gonna spend big until he's sure that his investment is safe and we aren't going down again.

 

He most certainly doesn't want us to go down again, so he'll spend a least a little over the break.

 

Come next winter, if we're in a position where safety looks likely (or even if we're around 17/18), he'll spend to buy replacements for positions where we have shortfalls and injuries. He wants to see us go over the line, just like he did this winter. At least on this account, he's shown a (recent) positive past history.

 

But for him to go all-out with spending sees us repeating all of the mistakes of the past and not taking any of the few benefits we've received from being promoted.

 

FFS, give it time people!!

Edited April 14, 2010 by dbsweeney

[peasepud 59]

I don't think there's apathy. I think there's realism.

 

Aim to not go down again ... but that doesn't mean if the club will acheves safety we'll put the breaks on getting any more wins.

 

EVERY team starts every game at least hoping for a win. Whether you get them or not a a different matter. But saying that because we are aiming for safety (whch we should be) means that's all we'll achieve is ridiculous.

 

If your talking about Ashley's spending etc. he's not gonna spend big until he's sure that his investment is safe and we aren't going down again.

 

He most certainly doesn't want us to go down again, so he'll spend a least a little over the break.

 

Come next winter, if we're in a position where safety looks likely (or even if we're around 17/18), he'll spend to buy replacements for positions where we have shortfalls and injuries. He wants to see us go over the line, just like he did this winter. At least on this account, he's shown a (recent) positive past history.

 

But for him to go all-out with spending sees us repeating all of the mistakes of the past and not taking any of the few benefits we've received from being promoted.

 

FFS, give it time people!!

 

laughable tbh, you've dreamt that havent you?

 

Ashley has no intention of spending "big" in fact he has no intentions of spending "medium" or even "sensible".

 

Their model is clear, buy it cheap, pay it peanuts and then when the product shows any kind of profit sell it on only in this case the product isnt shirts or shoes but players. Getting into Europe is not even on the radar because its not part of the plan. Yes, if somehow we make it then he'll be laughing all the way to the bank but its irrelevant to him other than being another income stream.

 

The "mistakes" of the past are just that, mistakes, slip ups. The model was right, the plan (even if LM says there wasnt one ) worked however it fell down by some purchases not living up to their already proven ability.

 

We are no longer a football club, we're a diversification of Sports Direct, another arm of the company, another income for Ashley.

[dbsweeney 0]

I don't think there's apathy. I think there's realism.

 

Aim to not go down again ... but that doesn't mean if the club will acheves safety we'll put the breaks on getting any more wins.

 

EVERY team starts every game at least hoping for a win. Whether you get them or not a a different matter. But saying that because we are aiming for safety (whch we should be) means that's all we'll achieve is ridiculous.

 

If your talking about Ashley's spending etc. he's not gonna spend big until he's sure that his investment is safe and we aren't going down again.

 

He most certainly doesn't want us to go down again, so he'll spend a least a little over the break.

 

Come next winter, if we're in a position where safety looks likely (or even if we're around 17/18), he'll spend to buy replacements for positions where we have shortfalls and injuries. He wants to see us go over the line, just like he did this winter. At least on this account, he's shown a (recent) positive past history.

 

But for him to go all-out with spending sees us repeating all of the mistakes of the past and not taking any of the few benefits we've received from being promoted.

 

FFS, give it time people!!

 

laughable tbh, you've dreamt that havent you?

 

Ashley has no intention of spending "big" in fact he has no intentions of spending "medium" or even "sensible".

 

Their model is clear, buy it cheap, pay it peanuts and then when the product shows any kind of profit sell it on only in this case the product isnt shirts or shoes but players. Getting into Europe is not even on the radar because its not part of the plan. Yes, if somehow we make it then he'll be laughing all the way to the bank but its irrelevant to him other than being another income stream.

 

The "mistakes" of the past are just that, mistakes, slip ups. The model was right, the plan (even if LM says there wasnt one ) worked however it fell down by some purchases not living up to their already proven ability.

 

We are no longer a football club, we're a diversification of Sports Direct, another arm of the company, another income for Ashley.

 

I never suggested he's gonna spend big (did you read what I wrote). But I do think that he’ll spend ‘moderate’ ‘cause that is the best way for him to make money—to stay in the Prem. Then, if it does work out, over time we’ll build a more solid squad and hopefully climb the table. Even if you were to think he’s only ‘in it for the money’, that would be the best way for him to make more.

 

What I don’t like Ashley for is the lies and the way he dealt with situations badly (like the Keegan saga), but never has he appeared to be a blood-sucking vampire looking to suck every drop of money out of the club. Look at how much he’s spent on it already.

 

Do you think he wants to continue that? If he’s looking for a business model that keeps wages low and doesn’t spend on large names, then what’s wrong with that?

 

Don’t buy into the unworkable business model of having to spend huge to buy the big players. It didn’t get us anywhere last time, despite the many ‘mistakes’ as you say. We made so many mistakes that they weren’t actually mistakes, they were the wrong things to do.

 

Look, we’ll do better in the Prem. than a lot of other past-promoted teams simply because we already have in place a better infrastructure. The target of slowly building talent, finding younger cheaper talent, and building our youth-training system is the way to go—and Ashley seems keen on following this.

 

But the idea of thinking he only wants to suck us dry seems like paranoia—where’s the proof of it?

 

If you want to bring up the story of selling Milner/Given and keeping the profits, well so he rightfully could if he’d already tanked 10 of millions of pounds into the club.

 

The man’s made MANY mistakes, but I think you’re wrong if you think he wants to turn it into a profit machine.

[OTF 7559]

Some people don't seem to realise that when it comes down to it, modern football is just a money game for the big players. It doesn't matter what crest is stitched onto the shirt just who has the most money to throw at bringing players in. Look at Chelsea, look at Man City, look at Barcelona (look at Real Madrid for how to throw money innefectively) it's all about money. If you spend it in large enough volumes you'll win titles, or at the very least move your team to the upper echelons of the table.

 

It's nice to romanticize it, but like it or not in the end money is all it largely comes down to. Ambition doesn't bring you money, money allows you to realise ambition. Ambition on it's own is nothing. Money is the key. If you can afford to throw away a couple of hundred million to raise the immediate profile of the club then in a few years you MAY be turning some minor form of profit as a result of additional money coming in from the likes of Champions League etc. If you're not effective in the spending of the money, there's no getting it back.

 

With the number of financial juggernauts in the English game it's impossible in the short term to compete without being completely financially irresponsible. Without having squillions of your own money even if you wanted to do it as a rich but not mega-rich owner you probably couldn't as a result of the GFC.

[Happy Face 29]

Totally unreasonable for us to hope to be in Stoke's position this time next year.

 

Edited April 14, 2010 by Happy Face

[Christmas Tree 4856]

Excellent totally realistic posts from dbsweeny and oztoonfan.

 

Argument well and truly won against the doomongers.

 

Quite brilliant.

[Happy Face 29]

It’s about time people got real and realised that aside from being Newcastle United, we are just another promoted club that should go through the same motions every promoted club does in order to ensure survival.

 

Reach for the stars and you can make it to the moon.

 

We aim above the mark to hit the mark.

 

You can’t rest unless you set goals that make you stretch.

 

Aim at heaven and you get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither.

 

Not failure, but low aim, is crime.

 

It’s a funny thing about life: if you refuse to accept anything but the very best, you will often get it.

 

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

 

etc.

 

Aim for 7th and you're more likely to survive than aiming for 17th.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Happy Face

[peasepud 59]

Excellent totally realistic posts from dbsweeny and oztoonfan.

 

Argument well and truly won against the doomongers.

 

Quite brilliant.

 

you make me smile on a dreary day

[sandman02uk 0]

Excellent totally realistic posts from dbsweeny and oztoonfan.

 

Argument well and truly won against the doomongers.

 

Quite brilliant.

 

you make me smile on a dreary day

 

So do you, you lambast everyone who has an opinion on what they think may happen in the coming seasons and then you write as if you are privy to the inner workings of the Sports Direct Empire

[dbsweeney 0]

It’s about time people got real and realised that aside from being Newcastle United, we are just another promoted club that should go through the same motions every promoted club does in order to ensure survival.

 

Aim for 7th and you're more likely to survive than aiming for 17th.

 

I see your point Happy, honestly I do. But are you expecting Ashley to go ahead and spend 50 mill pounds next window?

 

You write what you think we should do. You too, Christmas.

 

I'm not saying aim for 17th, never did, but we have to be realistic. I'd like a knight on shining arabic horse horse to make us the next Man City ... but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

 

Why can't we aim to do what Birmingham's done this season or Stoke (to some extent). We've built a solid, tight-knit base. If Ashley spends a realistic amount of 20-25 mil to bring in some extra players, that'll help.

 

But going in, selling players and getting rid of CH (how many times have I read ... He's not a Prem. manager) and splashing the cash is most likely going to rock the unity that's developed over the last nine months. Also, if we do splash the cash, who do we end up spending it on? Why won't they be likely to be the next Owen , Viduka etc.

 

Finally, heaven forbid we splash the cash but still get relegated ... what happens then? Ashley won't bail us out again, the team talk after Layton Orient won't build unity again ... and we'd be floundering in the CCC in heavy debt and royally fucked.

 

Ashley is gojing to spend SOME money because he doesn't won't to see us dip in worth again by being relegated ... but this gung-ho talk of 'do it, and do it now' isn't going to work, nor is it going to happen.

 

Be realistic, that's all I'm saying.

 

As much as I care about NUFC ... we ARE just another promoted club. If we aren't ... tell me what we are.

 

Anyway, Christmas Tree and Happy Face, I'm happy to have the discussion with you. Peasepud, I don't understand what you're on about ...

 

George has it right:

Similarly, nobody at Newcastle is talking about the title or qualifying for Europe. St James’ this season has been utterly lacking in triumphalism and bluster, because there is a deep-seated understanding that theirs is a club in the early stages of recovery

Edited April 14, 2010 by dbsweeney

[ChezGiven 0]

It’s about time people got real and realised that aside from being Newcastle United, we are just another promoted club that should go through the same motions every promoted club does in order to ensure survival.

 

Reach for the stars and you can make it to the moon.

 

We aim above the mark to hit the mark.

 

You can’t rest unless you set goals that make you stretch.

 

Aim at heaven and you get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither.

 

Not failure, but low aim, is crime.

 

It’s a funny thing about life: if you refuse to accept anything but the very best, you will often get it.

 

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

 

etc.

 

Aim for 7th and you're more likely to survive than aiming for 17th.

 

Its taken me 12 years to get to where i wanted to be in my life, i've worked hard to do it and am finally about where i thought my ambition could take me. Took me till i was 36 to acheieve what i wanted. If i had expected to be here before i was 30 i would have been wrong and disappointed. I expected to get there eventually but i expected it to come from hard work, experience and importantly patience.

 

We werent unlucky last season and relegated by chance, we were shit, the club had fallen apart, it was broken. To put it back together again and return it to where it was in 2005/6, a full 4 seaons ago takes more than being promoted out of a shit league with players of dubious premier league quality.

 

I know what the club are trying to do with all their current communication, they are trying to manage expectations. The crowd at SJP this season has been right behind the team. Why? Because expectation levels were low at the start of the season, so our performances generated happiness. But when we came 5th, the fans were a disappointed. Why? Because the exectations of the 3rd the season before and the 4th in 01/02 had created high expectations. The happiness of a crowd and the positivity in a club is intrinsically connected to its expectations.

 

If you want to harness the power of the 12th man at SJP, you cant go into a season where realistically under the constraints of even a budget of 30m you can look to hopefully hit mid-table but have the fans expecting Europe. In fact the best way to harness the support and promote positivity throughout the club is to have expectations set around survival so that when mid-table results get produced, you capitalise on the extra positivity generated. In fact, you may even do better than you hoped at best.

 

This, for me, is not about saying 'we are going to be a yo-yo club, get used to it', its about achieving what Trevor Francis said after the Forest match, getting the fans expectations right. You can argue the toss about whether they are right to do this but this is what they are doing and for the reasons i have outlined.

[Happy Face 29]

It’s about time people got real and realised that aside from being Newcastle United, we are just another promoted club that should go through the same motions every promoted club does in order to ensure survival.

 

Aim for 7th and you're more likely to survive than aiming for 17th.

 

I see your point Happy, honestly I do. But are you expecting Ashley to go ahead and spend 50 mill pounds next window?

 

You write what you think we should do. You too, Christmas.

 

I'm not saying aim for 17th, never did, but we have to be realistic. I'd like a knight on shining arabic horse horse to make us the next Man City ... but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

 

Why can't we aim to do what Birmingham's done this season or Stoke (to some extent). We've built a solid, tight-knit base. If Ashley spends a realistic amount of 20-25 mil to bring in some extra players, that'll help.

 

But going in, selling players and getting rid of CH (how many times have I read ... He's not a Prem. manager) and splashing the cash is most likely going to rock the unity that's developed over the last nine months. Also, if we do splash the cash, who do we end up spending it on? Why won't they be likely to be the next Owen , Viduka etc.

 

Finally, heaven forbid we splash the cash but still get relegated ... what happens then? Ashley won't bail us out again, the team talk after Layton Orient won't build unity again ... and we'd be floundering in the CCC in heavy debt and royally fucked.

 

Ashley is gojing to spend SOME money because he doesn't won't to see us dip in worth again by being relegated ... but this gung-ho talk of 'do it, and do it now' isn't going to work, nor is it going to happen.

 

Be realistic, that's all I'm saying.

 

As much as I care about NUFC ... we ARE just another promoted club.

 

Anyway, Christmas Tree and Happy Face, I'm happy to have the discussion with you. Peasepud, I don't understand what you're on about ...

 

Are you Mick Dennis? I'd love to meet the Newcastle fans saying we should sack Hughton.

 

Look above where I sarcastically took the piss out of anyone suggesting doing what Stoke have done would be a bad thing.

 

Talk of "ensuring survival" should ensure a fine for anyone at the club though. If expectations are that low going in to next season it's bound to become a self fulfilling prophecy.

[dbsweeney 0]

 

Are you Mick Dennis? I'd love to meet the Newcastle fans saying we should sack Hughton.

 

So I've dreamt of the discussion talking of bringing Mark Hughes or that Hughton is a good coach but isn't tactically adept? It's been written on this board for months.

 

Talk of "ensuring survival" should ensure a fine for anyone at the club though.

 

Again, I never said just aim for 17th ... I'm just saying be realistic.

 

Let's build on what has been created over these last nine months.

 

What do you, taking into account the present facts, owner and situation, suggest we do?

 

At least engage in the argument instead of being a 'witty' wanker.

Edited April 14, 2010 by dbsweeney

[ChezGiven 0]

It’s about time people got real and realised that aside from being Newcastle United, we are just another promoted club that should go through the same motions every promoted club does in order to ensure survival.

 

Aim for 7th and you're more likely to survive than aiming for 17th.

 

I see your point Happy, honestly I do. But are you expecting Ashley to go ahead and spend 50 mill pounds next window?

 

You write what you think we should do. You too, Christmas.

 

I'm not saying aim for 17th, never did, but we have to be realistic. I'd like a knight on shining arabic horse horse to make us the next Man City ... but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

 

Why can't we aim to do what Birmingham's done this season or Stoke (to some extent). We've built a solid, tight-knit base. If Ashley spends a realistic amount of 20-25 mil to bring in some extra players, that'll help.

 

But going in, selling players and getting rid of CH (how many times have I read ... He's not a Prem. manager) and splashing the cash is most likely going to rock the unity that's developed over the last nine months. Also, if we do splash the cash, who do we end up spending it on? Why won't they be likely to be the next Owen , Viduka etc.

 

Finally, heaven forbid we splash the cash but still get relegated ... what happens then? Ashley won't bail us out again, the team talk after Layton Orient won't build unity again ... and we'd be floundering in the CCC in heavy debt and royally fucked.

 

Ashley is gojing to spend SOME money because he doesn't won't to see us dip in worth again by being relegated ... but this gung-ho talk of 'do it, and do it now' isn't going to work, nor is it going to happen.

 

Be realistic, that's all I'm saying.

 

As much as I care about NUFC ... we ARE just another promoted club.

 

Anyway, Christmas Tree and Happy Face, I'm happy to have the discussion with you. Peasepud, I don't understand what you're on about ...

 

Are you Mick Dennis? I'd love to meet the Newcastle fans saying we should sack Hughton.

 

Look above where I sarcastically took the piss out of anyone suggesting doing what Stoke have done would be a bad thing.

 

Talk of "ensuring survival" should ensure a fine for anyone at the club though. If expectations are that low going in to next season it's bound to become a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

Expectations at the start of this season were not that we would be champions so your last sentence is drivel.

[Happy Face 29]

Its taken me 12 years to get to where i wanted to be in my life, i've worked hard to do it and am finally about where i thought my ambition could take me. Took me till i was 36 to acheieve what i wanted. If i had expected to be here before i was 30 i would have been wrong and disappointed. I expected to get there eventually but i expected it to come from hard work, experience and importantly patience.

 

We werent unlucky last season and relegated by chance, we were shit, the club had fallen apart, it was broken. To put it back together again and return it to where it was in 2005/6, a full 4 seaons ago takes more than being promoted out of a shit league with players of dubious premier league quality.

 

I know what the club are trying to do with all their current communication, they are trying to manage expectations. The crowd at SJP this season has been right behind the team. Why? Because expectation levels were low at the start of the season, so our performances generated happiness. But when we came 5th, the fans were a disappointed. Why? Because the exectations of the 3rd the season before and the 4th in 01/02 had created high expectations. The happiness of a crowd and the positivity in a club is intrinsically connected to its expectations.

 

If you want to harness the power of the 12th man at SJP, you cant go into a season where realistically under the constraints of even a budget of 30m you can look to hopefully hit mid-table but have the fans expecting Europe. In fact the best way to harness the support and promote positivity throughout the club is to have expectations set around survival so that when mid-table results get produced, you capitalise on the extra positivity generated. In fact, you may even do better than you hoped at best.

 

This, for me, is not about saying 'we are going to be a yo-yo club, get used to it', its about achieving what Trevor Francis said after the Forest match, getting the fans expectations right. You can argue the toss about whether they are right to do this but this is what they are doing and for the reasons i have outlined.

 

Telling the players in the squad "survival is all we expect of you" is not only a demotivating slight on their ability but provides an excuse for a lacklustre performance.

 

I don't think telling the team (or the fans) we want to emulate Stoke/Birmingham is an unreasonably high level of expectation.

[Happy Face 29]

It’s about time people got real and realised that aside from being Newcastle United, we are just another promoted club that should go through the same motions every promoted club does in order to ensure survival.

 

Aim for 7th and you're more likely to survive than aiming for 17th.

 

I see your point Happy, honestly I do. But are you expecting Ashley to go ahead and spend 50 mill pounds next window?

 

You write what you think we should do. You too, Christmas.

 

I'm not saying aim for 17th, never did, but we have to be realistic. I'd like a knight on shining arabic horse horse to make us the next Man City ... but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

 

Why can't we aim to do what Birmingham's done this season or Stoke (to some extent). We've built a solid, tight-knit base. If Ashley spends a realistic amount of 20-25 mil to bring in some extra players, that'll help.

 

But going in, selling players and getting rid of CH (how many times have I read ... He's not a Prem. manager) and splashing the cash is most likely going to rock the unity that's developed over the last nine months. Also, if we do splash the cash, who do we end up spending it on? Why won't they be likely to be the next Owen , Viduka etc.

 

Finally, heaven forbid we splash the cash but still get relegated ... what happens then? Ashley won't bail us out again, the team talk after Layton Orient won't build unity again ... and we'd be floundering in the CCC in heavy debt and royally fucked.

 

Ashley is gojing to spend SOME money because he doesn't won't to see us dip in worth again by being relegated ... but this gung-ho talk of 'do it, and do it now' isn't going to work, nor is it going to happen.

 

Be realistic, that's all I'm saying.

 

As much as I care about NUFC ... we ARE just another promoted club.

 

Anyway, Christmas Tree and Happy Face, I'm happy to have the discussion with you. Peasepud, I don't understand what you're on about ...

 

Are you Mick Dennis? I'd love to meet the Newcastle fans saying we should sack Hughton.

 

Look above where I sarcastically took the piss out of anyone suggesting doing what Stoke have done would be a bad thing.

 

Talk of "ensuring survival" should ensure a fine for anyone at the club though. If expectations are that low going in to next season it's bound to become a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

Expectations at the start of this season were not that we would be champions so your last sentence is drivel.

 

I'd disagree based on that poll from last May I posted before.

[Happy Face 29]

This one...

 

http://www.toontastic.net/board/index.php?...=24453&st=0

[ChezGiven 0]

Re: the poll. I'd rather rely on more qualitative data where i read 1000's of posts on here and NO expressing grave concerns about the season, reading the humility in the voices of every fan pre-Cardiff expecting defeat and the delight in the win, the attitudes of the core posters on here about the future of the club and the predictions of many that things were going toget worse before they got better. A poll means fuck all, its not been professionally phrased or researched beforehand so it has no validity as a source of opinion. As someone who specialises in research, i'd rather trust what i know from reading these forums. Your poll could have just been capturing people's hopes, not their expectations.

 

Secondly, why would Chris Hughton use press conferences and post-match interviews to send messages to players? Howay man, wake up.