Calls for Pope to be put on trial

[Happy Face 29]

"I must say, we Christians, even in recent times, have often avoided the word 'repent', which seemed too tough,"

 

"But now, under attack from the world which talks to us of our sins, we can see that being able to do penance is a grace and we see how necessary it is to do penance and thus recognise what is wrong in our lives."

 

"[This involves] opening oneself up to forgiveness, preparing oneself for forgiveness, allowing oneself to be transformed."

 

"Conformism which makes it obligatory to think and act like everyone else, and the subtle - or not so subtle - aggression towards the Church, demonstrate how this conformism can really be a true dictatorship"

 

The former Nazi commented.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8622671.stm

[Meenzer 15721]

How awful it is that people mindlessly conform to the premise that child abuse is morally wrong.

[NJS 4411]

"think and act like everyone else"

 

"dictatorship"

 

Oh the irony.

 

I don't think 10 Hail Marys is a suitable punishment for the crimes somehow.

[Renton 22002]

"I must say, we Christians, even in recent times, have often avoided the word 'repent', which seemed too tough,"

 

"But now, under attack from the world which talks to us of our sins, we can see that being able to do penance is a grace and we see how necessary it is to do penance and thus recognise what is wrong in our lives."

 

"[This involves] opening oneself up to forgiveness, preparing oneself for forgiveness, allowing oneself to be transformed."

 

"Conformism which makes it obligatory to think and act like everyone else, and the subtle - or not so subtle - aggression towards the Church, demonstrate how this conformism can really be a true dictatorship"

 

The former Nazi commented.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8622671.stm

 

 

What's being more conformist than being a practising member of the catholic church? If you don't conform your on the fast track to excommunication - and Hell.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

Dawkins, the Pope, they're the same.

 

Wow, now that is insulting, and nonsense of course. It's as banal as saying that everybody is the same. Also comparing the church with academia? Hmmm.

 

Somebody's going to have to run it by me how atheism - an absence of belief in any God or Scripture - can be described as dogmatic as well. Sounds like an oxymoron to me.

 

 

Yep the first quote is nonsense. If your an atheist you dont believe in god - end of. Its not a case of being fundamentalist or dogmatic. Dawkins doesnt advocate war or persecution like many religious leaders do.

 

As Richard Dawkins has said, there is not the slightest scrap of evidence for the existence of a god. Thats a fact, its not being dogmatic

 

Theres no comparison between the rational, evidence based approach of Dawkins and the sometimes fanatical comments made by religious leaders whose doctrine is largely based on mumbo jumbo nonsense from thousands of years ago.

 

Is anyone going to provide some examples of his so called annoying comments?

 

Exactly, you can't get two people who are much further apart than Dawkins and the Pope!

 

And if i were Dawkins i'd take incredible offence at being likened to a homophobic, nazi who deliberately protects child rapists.

[Toonpack 9952]

It happens in nature so it's perfectly natural and acceptable

[Tom 14013]

The animals have a Pope!!

[Billy Castell 0]

[Sonatine 11542]

[Tom 14013]

[Happy Face 29]

[Renton 22002]

 

Matt And Trey pretty much got it spot on with the South Park episode 'Red Hot Catholic Love' as well. That was a while back too.

[NJS 4411]

Here's the full list of "discussion topics" from the Civil service that's causing all the trouble:

 

Launch of 'Benedict' condoms

Review of Vatican attitude on condom use

Bless a civil partnership

Reversal of policy on women bishops/ordain woman

Open an abortion ward

Speech on equality

Statement on views over adoption (change of stance)

Training course for all bishops on child abuse allegations

Harder line on child abuse—announce sacking of dodgy bishops

Vatican sponsorship for network of AIDS clinics

Meet young unemployed people

Canonise/pseudo canonise a group

Announce whistle blowing system for child abuse cases

Go to job centre

Debate on abortion

All catholic schools should be free entry to all

Speech on democracy

Vatican and C of E funded committee on dialogue

Launch helpline for abused children

 

Can anyone tell me why the ones in bold are not good discussion points to raise?

 

 

I fucking hate the moral cowardice of diplomacy.

[Guest alex]

Shame the Vatican didn't get so angry about priests botting choir boys.

[Happy Face 29]

Shame the Vatican didn't get so angry about priests botting choir boys.

 

What amazes me is the people still going to church and propping up a hideous cult set up to give pederasts access to kids.

 

Why aren't catholics taking a stance and demanding more action to punish the criminals that represent them?

 

Can you imagine the witch hunt against any muslims that refused to condemn a terrorist attack in their name?

 

PS - Done a search on the news to see if it was happening anywhere but not being covered by the media....and it seems Sinead O'Connor has been advocating it.

 

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/3...tholic-boycott/

[Renton 22002]

Shame the Vatican didn't get so angry about priests botting choir boys.

 

What amazes me is the people still going to church and propping up a hideous cult set up to give pederasts access to kids.

 

Why aren't catholics taking a stance and demanding more action to punish the criminals that represent them?

 

Can you imagine the witch hunt against any muslims that refused to condemn a terrorist attack in their name?

 

PS - Done a search on the news to see if it was happening anywhere but not being covered by the media....and it seems Sinead O'Connor has been advocating it.

 

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/3...tholic-boycott/

 

At the same time perhaps its a good idea not to over react - I'm sure the large majority of priests aren't abusers.

 

There. That's as much defence of the catholic church I'm going to give.

[Happy Face 29]

Shame the Vatican didn't get so angry about priests botting choir boys.

 

What amazes me is the people still going to church and propping up a hideous cult set up to give pederasts access to kids.

 

Why aren't catholics taking a stance and demanding more action to punish the criminals that represent them?

 

Can you imagine the witch hunt against any muslims that refused to condemn a terrorist attack in their name?

 

PS - Done a search on the news to see if it was happening anywhere but not being covered by the media....and it seems Sinead O'Connor has been advocating it.

 

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/3...tholic-boycott/

 

At the same time perhaps its a good idea not to over react - I'm sure the large majority of priests aren't abusers.

 

There. That's as much defence of the catholic church I'm going to give.

 

But it's TheChurch PLC policy to protect whichever priests do choose to rape children. Is it an overreaction to refuse such an entity your business until such a policy is reversed?

 

Is it an overreaction to say, anyone paying the popes wages is complicit?

[Renton 22002]

Shame the Vatican didn't get so angry about priests botting choir boys.

 

What amazes me is the people still going to church and propping up a hideous cult set up to give pederasts access to kids.

 

Why aren't catholics taking a stance and demanding more action to punish the criminals that represent them?

 

Can you imagine the witch hunt against any muslims that refused to condemn a terrorist attack in their name?

 

PS - Done a search on the news to see if it was happening anywhere but not being covered by the media....and it seems Sinead O'Connor has been advocating it.

 

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/3...tholic-boycott/

 

At the same time perhaps its a good idea not to over react - I'm sure the large majority of priests aren't abusers.

 

There. That's as much defence of the catholic church I'm going to give.

 

But it's TheChurch PLC policy to protect whichever priests do choose to rape children. Is it an overreaction to refuse such an entity your business until such a policy is reversed?

 

Is it an overreaction to say, anyone paying the popes wages is complicit?

 

You've got to appreciate tha its a diverse church though and that for the mopst part individual catholics don't care what Rome or the Pope think. How many Catholics do you think there are that don't practise contraception for instance? Therefore in a way concerns about abuse may rightly be localised. Anyway, apparently about a quarter of Catholics in the UK are considering giving up their faith - a form of boycott I guess, and a lot more than boycotted Ashley.

[NJS 4411]

I know it's a pet subject of mine but I think you have to understand how ingrained catholicism is. I and others can make blithe statements about giving the doctrines 2 seconds of intelligent thought or about people choosing their particular brand but I do recognise that as far as they are concerned it is very much part of their basic identity (obviously the same appiles to other faiths) and attacks on the church, no matter how justified, are still seen as attacks on their team as it were.

 

Having said all that I do hope that the more the Vatican takes this stance (though they have tried to move a bit very recently) the more people might finally take a stand.

[Happy Face 29]

Reminds me of this part of an article from last week....

 

What [other faiths] do not have, however, is the illogical myth of the unchallengeable infallibility of their top human leader. The mysterious human/infallibility oxymoron coupled with the absence of any mechanism for questioning papal statements, let alone laws, and, finally the absence of papal "term limits" (however incapable a pope may become) constitute a uniquely Catholic nightmare.

 

This is the real "mystery" of 21st century Catholicism: that millions of laypersons (many of whom are literate and even highly educated) have been willing for centuries to accept such tyranny and its resulting subservience, in silence. Despite recent speculation about the future of Pope Benedict XVI and his church, nothing is likely to change, urbis et orbis, as they say, in our lifetimes.

 

http://open.salon.com/blog/mary_ann_sorren...n_and_mysteries

[NJS 4411]

The same argument though could be made for the easy ride monarchies get - again due to a degree of brainwashing that there's nothing wrong with inherited position.

[Renton 22002]

Reminds me of this part of an article from last week....

 

What [other faiths] do not have, however, is the illogical myth of the unchallengeable infallibility of their top human leader. The mysterious human/infallibility oxymoron coupled with the absence of any mechanism for questioning papal statements, let alone laws, and, finally the absence of papal "term limits" (however incapable a pope may become) constitute a uniquely Catholic nightmare.

 

This is the real "mystery" of 21st century Catholicism: that millions of laypersons (many of whom are literate and even highly educated) have been willing for centuries to accept such tyranny and its resulting subservience, in silence. Despite recent speculation about the future of Pope Benedict XVI and his church, nothing is likely to change, urbis et orbis, as they say, in our lifetimes.

 

http://open.salon.com/blog/mary_ann_sorren...n_and_mysteries

 

I've never really considered whether this is unique to the Catholic church but I suppose it might be amongst the bigger religions. Do the Shia muslims not believe there is a direct line of decent from Mohammed - genuine question? Is the Queen not supposed to be divine (or at least chosen) to an extent?

 

Like I say, I doubt most Catholics accept the Pope's infallibility. Which is a bit of a problem really.

[ewerk 31207]

Surely the Dalai Lama is also thought to be infallible by his followers?

 

At the end of the day, anyone who believes that a human can't make errors in their job is a fool. That goes for the pope and also those who wrote the bibles.

Edited April 26, 2010 by ewerk

[NJS 4411]

I've never really considered whether this is unique to the Catholic church but I suppose it might be amongst the bigger religions. Do the Shia muslims not believe there is a direct line of decent from Mohammed - genuine question? Is the Queen not supposed to be divine (or at least chosen) to an extent?

 

Like I say, I doubt most Catholics accept the Pope's infallibility. Which is a bit of a problem really.

 

The Queen certainly has a phrase like "by the grace of God" enshrined in her mission statement/coronation oath but I think most Anglicans are pretty casual about it.

[Happy Face 29]

The queen doesn't actually have any power to mobilise her army....not like the Pope and his war on The Golden Compass.