Calls for Pope to be put on trial

[Guest alex]

Mmm, Chicken and Mushroom.

[Meenzer 15727]

There is always another way...

 

[Sonatine 11552]

There is always another way...

 

 

 

Excellent

[Happy Face 29]

Vatican comment on paedophiles draws gay groups' anger

 

Gay rights activists have criticised a Vatican official who sought to link homosexuality to paedophilia when commenting on child sex abuse scandals.

 

The UK's Stonewall group said it was astonishing gay people should still be dealing with "such an offensive myth".

 

Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone had said homosexuality, not celibacy, lay behind the child sex abuse scandals.

 

The cardinal, the Vatican's foreign minister, was speaking in Chile, where his comments were also condemned.

 

Cardinal Bertone was attempting to defuse the scandals currently afflicting the Catholic Church, which are largely cases of priests molesting children, mainly boys, the BBC's David Willey reports from Rome.

 

He added that some "surprising" initiatives regarding the sex abuse scandal would soon be revealed but did not elaborate.

 

'I have the documents'

 

Visiting the Chilean capital Santiago on Monday, Cardinal Bertone told a news conference: "Many psychologists, many psychiatrists have demonstrated that there is no relationship between celibacy and paedophilia but many others have demonstrated, I was told recently, that there is a relationship between homosexuality and paedophilia.

 

"That is true. I have the documents of the psychologists. That is the problem."

 

Patricio Walker, a Chilean senator who helped draft anti-paedophile laws, said he would like to see what scientific studies the cardinal was referring to because he thought he was wrong.

 

A Chilean communist MP, Hugo Gutierrez, told AFP news agency: "Celibacy does more damage to a human being than homosexuality, which is a freely made choice.

 

"I'm shocked by these words from a senior dignitary of the Church."

 

In Rome, the head of Italian gay rights group Gaylib, Enrico Oliari, said it was "worrying that the foreign minister of a state that occupies the heart of the Italian capital would use arguments that are considered passe even in the Third World".

 

Aurelio Mancuso, former president of a Italian gay rights association Arcigay, said: "The truth is that Bertone is clumsily trying to shift attention to homosexuality and away from the focus on new crimes against children that emerge every day."

 

The Pope's spokesman has indicated that Benedict may have a discreet private meeting with victims of clerical sexual abuse in Malta during his visit there this coming weekend.

 

The Pope should not feel he is under the pressure of the glare of the media if such a meeting takes place, Fr Federico Lombardi said, so that he can listen and communicate with them.

 

In Malta, 10 men have taken three Catholic priests to court for alleged child abuse in their youth and have asked to meet the Pope. There has been a high incidence of reported cases on the small Mediterranean island, whose inhabitants are mainly Catholic, our Rome correspondent notes.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8618878.stm

 

[Anth 113]

Disgusting

[NJS 4411]

I don't know why they wouuld be shocked - the church knows absolutely nothing about human sexuality and conbining that with a homophobioc agenda and a need to blame anyone but themselves, t's surprising it's taken this long.

 

Having said that I've seen clips of Irish TV shows in the wake of the Ryan report where bishops said the same thing.

[trophyshy 7084]

tbf getting a blow job in a church must be pretty cool.

[Guest alex]

tbf getting a blow job in a church must be pretty cool.

At the lectern? Like Commandant Lassard?

[trophyshy 7084]

tbf getting a blow job in a church must be pretty cool.

At the lectern? Like Commandant Lassard?

 

 

might liven up their speech, or whatever it's called.

 

Blow jobs, off women, for all priests, keep them on the straight and narrow.

 

Save a child, rent a whore for your Father.

[Toonpack 9967]

I don't know why they wouuld be shocked - the church knows absolutely nothing about human sexuality and conbining that with a homophobioc agenda and a need to blame anyone but themselves, t's surprising it's taken this long.

 

Having said that I've seen clips of Irish TV shows in the wake of the Ryan report where bishops said the same thing.

 

So homosexuals have sex/relationships with persons of the same sex.

 

Catholic Priests seem to have a penchant for choirboys, so the predator is predating on the same sex, but can't be a homosexual ??? If not, how not.

[TheMoog 0]

I have no problem with atheists in general, but in my experience a lot of them are more fundamentalistic and dogmatic than most religious people I know and therefore incredibly annoying. Dawkins and Hitchens being a case in point.

 

The best post in this thread.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Armchair Pundit

[NJS 4411]

I don't know why they wouuld be shocked - the church knows absolutely nothing about human sexuality and conbining that with a homophobioc agenda and a need to blame anyone but themselves, t's surprising it's taken this long.

 

Having said that I've seen clips of Irish TV shows in the wake of the Ryan report where bishops said the same thing.

 

So homosexuals have sex/relationships with persons of the same sex.

 

Catholic Priests seem to have a penchant for choirboys, so the predator is predating on the same sex, but can't be a homosexual ??? If not, how not.

 

Guardian Article

 

Homosexuality is about orientation – same-sex attraction. Sex abuse of minors is about malformed sexual orientation, immaturity and power. The same statistics which disprove any link between celibacy and sex abuse of minors – almost all of which takes place within the family, often by married men and women – are the same which should undermine any attempts to conflate sex abuse and homosexuality.

[NJS 4411]

I have no problem with atheists in general, but in my experience a lot of them are more fundamentalistic and dogmatic than most religious people I know and therefore incredibly annoying. Dawkins and Hitchens being a case in point.

 

The best post in this thread.

 

Give some examples of them being annoying.

 

Have they ever said that religious people were less than human? (as Cormac O'Connor said about Atheists) Have they ever ignored the deaths of millions of South Americans and said they were "crying out for Christ" before conquest like Ratzinger?

[Park Life 71]

I have no problem with atheists in general, but in my experience a lot of them are more fundamentalistic and dogmatic than most religious people I know and therefore incredibly annoying. Dawkins and Hitchens being a case in point.

 

The best post in this thread.

 

Give some examples of them being annoying.

 

Have they ever said that religious people were less than human? (as Cormac O'Connor said about Atheists) Have they ever ignored the deaths of millions of South Americans and said they were "crying out for Christ" before conquest like Ratzinger?

 

Although Hitchends amuses me, I find his condascending smugness and general 'look at me I'm so clever and erudite' somewhat irritating...Rank grade A attention seeker imo.

[Toonpack 9967]

I don't know why they wouuld be shocked - the church knows absolutely nothing about human sexuality and conbining that with a homophobioc agenda and a need to blame anyone but themselves, t's surprising it's taken this long.

 

Having said that I've seen clips of Irish TV shows in the wake of the Ryan report where bishops said the same thing.

 

So homosexuals have sex/relationships with persons of the same sex.

 

Catholic Priests seem to have a penchant for choirboys, so the predator is predating on the same sex, but can't be a homosexual ??? If not, how not.

 

Guardian Article

 

Homosexuality is about orientation – same-sex attraction. Sex abuse of minors is about malformed sexual orientation, immaturity and power. The same statistics which disprove any link between celibacy and sex abuse of minors – almost all of which takes place within the family, often by married men and women – are the same which should undermine any attempts to conflate sex abuse and homosexuality.

 

How can sexual abuse of a minor of the same sex as the abuser NOT be homosexual in nature ??

 

I do accept that to abuse minors you must be "deviant" and not representative of the wider "population".

[Cid_MCDP 0]

I don't know why they wouuld be shocked - the church knows absolutely nothing about human sexuality and conbining that with a homophobioc agenda and a need to blame anyone but themselves, t's surprising it's taken this long.

 

Having said that I've seen clips of Irish TV shows in the wake of the Ryan report where bishops said the same thing.

 

So homosexuals have sex/relationships with persons of the same sex.

 

Catholic Priests seem to have a penchant for choirboys, so the predator is predating on the same sex, but can't be a homosexual ??? If not, how not.

 

Guardian Article

 

Homosexuality is about orientation – same-sex attraction. Sex abuse of minors is about malformed sexual orientation, immaturity and power. The same statistics which disprove any link between celibacy and sex abuse of minors – almost all of which takes place within the family, often by married men and women – are the same which should undermine any attempts to conflate sex abuse and homosexuality.

 

How can sexual abuse of a minor of the same sex as the abuser NOT be homosexual in nature ??

 

I do accept that to abuse minors you must be "deviant" and not representative of the wider "population".

 

 

If I molested a little girl, I think very, very few people would consider that heterosexual in nature.

 

Anyhizzle- cunts the lot of them. Dawkins, the Pope, they're the same. Keepers of some kind of flame that they themselves are the ones who decide who is worthy and who is not. Academia and the Church really aren't that different when you boil it down. Well meaning in charter, but somewhere along the way ego plays into it then it all gets fucked.

 

The Catholic Church has massive problems- many of them stemming from this antiquated notion that there are men out there who can live a relatively normal and sane life without ever experiencing some kind of sexual release.

[NJS 4411]

How can sexual abuse of a minor of the same sex as the abuser NOT be homosexual in nature ??

 

I do accept that to abuse minors you must be "deviant" and not representative of the wider "population".

 

The argument is that priests who do have problems (obviously a tiny minority) because of celibacy - including a ban on masturbation - who develop a generally twisted view of sex express that with the only option available - vulnerable people who inhabit their "world" - in other words if there were choir girls then they would be just as likely to be victims.

[Holden McGroin 6785]

They all must at knock a cheeky one out now and again.

[NJS 4411]

They all must at knock a cheeky one out now and again.

 

This is why it's so fucked up imo - it's perfectly possible for a bloke to be celibate in the intercourse stakes but denying them any form of release (in theory)shows as I said a basic lack of knowledge of humanity. You can imagine the poor bastards being racked by guilt even when they get a hard on never mind have a wet dream.

 

As soon as you teach people that something natural is sinful and sinful = damnation then you mess them up.

[Park Life 71]

I don't know why they wouuld be shocked - the church knows absolutely nothing about human sexuality and conbining that with a homophobioc agenda and a need to blame anyone but themselves, t's surprising it's taken this long.

 

Having said that I've seen clips of Irish TV shows in the wake of the Ryan report where bishops said the same thing.

 

So homosexuals have sex/relationships with persons of the same sex.

 

Catholic Priests seem to have a penchant for choirboys, so the predator is predating on the same sex, but can't be a homosexual ??? If not, how not.

 

Guardian Article

 

Homosexuality is about orientation – same-sex attraction. Sex abuse of minors is about malformed sexual orientation, immaturity and power. The same statistics which disprove any link between celibacy and sex abuse of minors – almost all of which takes place within the family, often by married men and women – are the same which should undermine any attempts to conflate sex abuse and homosexuality.

 

How can sexual abuse of a minor of the same sex as the abuser NOT be homosexual in nature ??

 

I do accept that to abuse minors you must be "deviant" and not representative of the wider "population".

 

 

If I molested a little girl, I think very, very few people would consider that heterosexual in nature.

 

Anyhizzle- cunts the lot of them. Dawkins, the Pope, they're the same. Keepers of some kind of flame that they themselves are the ones who decide who is worthy and who is not. Academia and the Church really aren't that different when you boil it down. Well meaning in charter, but somewhere along the way ego plays into it then it all gets fucked.

 

The Catholic Church has massive problems- many of them stemming from this antiquated notion that there are men out there who can live a relatively normal and sane life without ever experiencing some kind of sexual release.

 

You got the last bit wrong..They are at it all the time...And those beards are really stubbly ffs!!

[Happy Face 29]

I have no problem with atheists in general, but in my experience a lot of them are more fundamentalistic and dogmatic than most religious people I know and therefore incredibly annoying. Dawkins and Hitchens being a case in point.

 

The best post in this thread.

 

Give some examples of them being annoying.

 

Have they ever said that religious people were less than human? (as Cormac O'Connor said about Atheists) Have they ever ignored the deaths of millions of South Americans and said they were "crying out for Christ" before conquest like Ratzinger?

 

Most importantly, if either of them forced themselves upon thousands of little boys sexually would they still be free to preach their brand of dogma?

[Renton 22003]

Dawkins, the Pope, they're the same.

 

Wow, now that is insulting, and nonsense of course. It's as banal as saying that everybody is the same. Also comparing the church with academia? Hmmm.

 

Somebody's going to have to run it by me how atheism - an absence of belief in any God or Scripture - can be described as dogmatic as well. Sounds like an oxymoron to me.

[brummiemag1 0]

Dawkins, the Pope, they're the same.

 

Wow, now that is insulting, and nonsense of course. It's as banal as saying that everybody is the same. Also comparing the church with academia? Hmmm.

 

Somebody's going to have to run it by me how atheism - an absence of belief in any God or Scripture - can be described as dogmatic as well. Sounds like an oxymoron to me.

 

 

Yep the first quote is nonsense. If your an atheist you dont believe in god - end of. Its not a case of being fundamentalist or dogmatic. Dawkins doesnt advocate war or persecution like many religious leaders do.

 

As Richard Dawkins has said, there is not the slightest scrap of evidence for the existence of a god. Thats a fact, its not being dogmatic

 

Theres no comparison between the rational, evidence based approach of Dawkins and the sometimes fanatical comments made by religious leaders whose doctrine is largely based on mumbo jumbo nonsense from thousands of years ago.

 

Is anyone going to provide some examples of his so called annoying comments?

[Happy Face 29]

Fundamentalism is the belief in the original form of a (religion or) theory, without accepting any later ideas.

 

Dawkins and Hitchens are exactly the opposite. They insist on shaping views based on facts as they come to light.

 

What's the antonym of Fundamentalist?

 

Revisionist?

[NJS 4411]

I think the problem is that even in a notionally secular country like the UK, people have been brought up to believe that criticising religion is beyond the pale if not completely taboo. I think a lot of people who haven't even considered the arguments find statements like "The God of the old testament was a complete and utter immoral bastard" to be jarring on some level.

 

Of course the internet has meant people have been able to take delight in sometimes causing that kind of offence (I'll hold my own hand up here) but at least this raises the subject. I think first of all we have to get to the point where we can discuss these things without automatic offence being taken but maybe that will take a bit of outrage on both sides first.