Lionel Messi

[snakehips 0]

So, to start a day of utter ridiculousness in a proper manner…

 

Who you rather have in your dream NUFC XI , Messi or The Portugese Spunkbubble?

Who you rather have in your dream NUFC XI, Messi or The Portugese Spunkbubble?

 

 

©Polish Nick

 

FYP

[LeazesMag 0]

Messi is the icing on the cake in a great team. Maradona turned average teams into champions.

 

Maradona had all of Messi’s skills (and then some) and he inspired those around him, whereas Messi (for all his dribbling skill) doesn’t.

 

There’s more to being a great footballer than technique and Messi doesn’t bear comparison with the likes of Cruyff, Beckenbaur and Maradona.

I'm not saying Messi is better than or going to be as good as Maradona (he was probably the 2nd best player ever though, tbf, maybe even the best ever) but when you compare what they've achieved at similar ages, then Messi is ahead of him. Maradona's 82 WC campaign was as disastrous from a personal and team pov as Messi's was last time round. Both about the same age too iirc. I take your point about turning average teams into champions but Napoli had some very good players, Careca and Ferrara for example. Probably a more level playing field then as well (I know southern clubs hadn't won the scudetto before but you were playing in an era where teams like Nottingham Forest, Steau Bucharest and Aston Villa had been European Champions in the preceding 10 years). The '86 world cup stands alone as a great, almost single-handed achievement though and I think Maradona did have a certain unique something as a footballing talent. I'm not sure Beckenbauer or Cruyff are that far ahead of Messi mind, and they didn't exactly play in poor teams either, did they? Weren't they 'just' the icing on the cake too?

 

You can't be more than the top player of your generation. Who is the best between Cryuff, Pele, Best, Maradona, Zidane, Messi etc....its just opinion. Personally I think Cruyff and Maradona but Messi is the best now and could easily have comparable success to show from his career [barring injury], playing in a World Cup winning team is the icing on the cake really, not the other way round.

 

Is Alan Shearer inferior to Stephane Gui'varch because he didn't play in a World Cup winning team ? you can't make such comparisions on such a basis.

[Guest Your Name Here]

Messi is the icing on the cake in a great team. Maradona turned average teams into champions.

 

Maradona had all of Messi’s skills (and then some) and he inspired those around him, whereas Messi (for all his dribbling skill) doesn’t.

 

There’s more to being a great footballer than technique and Messi doesn’t bear comparison with the likes of Cruyff, Beckenbaur and Maradona.

I'm not saying Messi is better than or going to be as good as Maradona (he was probably the 2nd best player ever though, tbf, maybe even the best ever) but when you compare what they've achieved at similar ages, then Messi is ahead of him. Maradona's 82 WC campaign was as disastrous from a personal and team pov as Messi's was last time round. Both about the same age too iirc. I take your point about turning average teams into champions but Napoli had some very good players, Careca and Ferrara for example. Probably a more level playing field then as well (I know southern clubs hadn't won the scudetto before but you were playing in an era where teams like Nottingham Forest, Steau Bucharest and Aston Villa had been European Champions in the preceding 10 years). The '86 world cup stands alone as a great, almost single-handed achievement though and I think Maradona did have a certain unique something as a footballing talent. I'm not sure Beckenbauer or Cruyff are that far ahead of Messi mind, and they didn't exactly play in poor teams either, did they? Weren't they 'just' the icing on the cake too?

Some good points, however...

 

Clive Allen scored 49 goals in one season for Spurs; it doesn’t make him a great. He’d only be considered a great if he played in team that was good enough to win stuff. Messi has time to do more with his career but I do think he’s hyped up a bit, with his near anonymity in the WC perhaps highlighting his tendency to drift out of games rather than dominating them.

 

Cryuff turned Ajax from a nothing club into a major European force, where alongside Rinus Michals he also created total football and changed the fortunes of the Dutch national side. He also made a huge impact at Barcelona where he inspired the club to its first La Liga for 15 years, before returning as a manager in the late eighties to win four consecutive domestics titles and lead Barca to their first ever EC. Achievements and a legacy that Messi has yet to come close to matching.

 

I’m not a fan of Barca’s tactic of boring the opposition into submission but they execute it brilliantly, but Iniesta and to lesser extent Zavi are the driving force behind its effectiveness, not Messi.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Your Name Here

[Guest alex]

I believe Cruyff rates Messi as an all-time great (or words to that effect).

[Guest Your Name Here]

I believe Cruyff rates Messi as an all-time great (or words to that effect).

SBR thought Carl Cort was worth £7m. Alex Ferguson paid £25m for Sebastian Veron.

[Guest alex]

I believe Cruyff rates Messi as an all-time great (or words to that effect).

SBR thought Carl Cort was worth £7m. Alex Ferguson paid £25m for Sebastian Veron.

I doubt either rated them as all-time greats (or good buys) in hindsight though.

[Guest Your Name Here]

I believe Cruyff rates Messi as an all-time great (or words to that effect).

SBR thought Carl Cort was worth £7m. Alex Ferguson paid £25m for Sebastian Veron.

I doubt either rated them as all-time greats (or good buys) in hindsight though.

Aye, and hindsight is what Messi should be judged with when it comes to talk of all time greatness.

 

There’s plenty of time for his career to go into decline, plenty of time for him to lose half a yard of pace, which given his physique will probably be an issue sooner than it would be for most players. You only have to look at Owen to see how a 'world beater' can turn into a carthorse when success comes early and pace is lost.

 

Enjoy Messi for what he is now and judge his greatness when his career is ending.

[Guest alex]

I believe Cruyff rates Messi as an all-time great (or words to that effect).

SBR thought Carl Cort was worth £7m. Alex Ferguson paid £25m for Sebastian Veron.

I doubt either rated them as all-time greats (or good buys) in hindsight though.

Aye, and hindsight is what Messi should be judged with when it comes to talk of all time greatness.

 

There’s plenty of time for his career to go into decline, plenty of time for him to lose half a yard of pace, which given his physique will probably be an issue sooner than it would be for most players. You only have to look at Owen to see how a 'world beater' can turn into a carthorse when success comes early and pace is lost.

 

Enjoy Messi for what he is now and judge his greatness when his career is ending.

I wasn't calling him an all-time great tbh. It is too early to tell. However, he has masses more potential than Owen ever had. In fact I don't really see the relevance in comparing him to Owen, Veron or indeed Carl Cort

Edited April 29, 2011 by alex

[LeazesMag 0]

Messi is the icing on the cake in a great team. Maradona turned average teams into champions.

 

Maradona had all of Messi’s skills (and then some) and he inspired those around him, whereas Messi (for all his dribbling skill) doesn’t.

 

There’s more to being a great footballer than technique and Messi doesn’t bear comparison with the likes of Cruyff, Beckenbaur and Maradona.

I'm not saying Messi is better than or going to be as good as Maradona (he was probably the 2nd best player ever though, tbf, maybe even the best ever) but when you compare what they've achieved at similar ages, then Messi is ahead of him. Maradona's 82 WC campaign was as disastrous from a personal and team pov as Messi's was last time round. Both about the same age too iirc. I take your point about turning average teams into champions but Napoli had some very good players, Careca and Ferrara for example. Probably a more level playing field then as well (I know southern clubs hadn't won the scudetto before but you were playing in an era where teams like Nottingham Forest, Steau Bucharest and Aston Villa had been European Champions in the preceding 10 years). The '86 world cup stands alone as a great, almost single-handed achievement though and I think Maradona did have a certain unique something as a footballing talent. I'm not sure Beckenbauer or Cruyff are that far ahead of Messi mind, and they didn't exactly play in poor teams either, did they? Weren't they 'just' the icing on the cake too?

Some good points, however...

 

Clive Allen scored 49 goals in one season for Spurs; it doesn’t make him a great. He’d only be considered a great if he played in team that was good enough to win stuff. Messi has time to do more with his career but I do think he’s hyped up a bit, with his near anonymity in the WC perhaps highlighting his tendency to drift out of games rather than dominating them.

 

Cryuff turned Ajax from a nothing club into a major European force, where alongside Rinus Michals he also created total football and changed the fortunes of the Dutch national side. He also made a huge impact at Barcelona where he inspired the club to its first La Liga for 15 years, before returning as a manager in the late eighties to win four consecutive domestics titles and lead Barca to their first ever EC. Achievements and a legacy that Messi has yet to come close to matching.

 

I’m not a fan of Barca’s tactic of boring the opposition into submission but they execute it brilliantly, but Iniesta and to lesser extent Zavi are the driving force behind its effectiveness, not Messi.

 

there's no doubt that Maradona dragged an average Argentina team into World Cup winners, and the great players impose themselves. I agree completely. But if Messi is already playing in a great [club] side then he's not called on to do the same is he ? He could have had a poor World Cup, but even if he has a poor one next time, it doesn't necessarily mean he is inferior to Maradona, there are other factors involved. Nobody plays well all the time, it isn't as if you can say he freezes on the big stage because he certainly doesn't with his club.

Edited April 29, 2011 by LeazesMag

[LeazesMag 0]

I believe Cruyff rates Messi as an all-time great (or words to that effect).

SBR thought Carl Cort was worth £7m. Alex Ferguson paid £25m for Sebastian Veron.

I doubt either rated them as all-time greats (or good buys) in hindsight though.

Aye, and hindsight is what Messi should be judged with when it comes to talk of all time greatness.

 

There’s plenty of time for his career to go into decline, plenty of time for him to lose half a yard of pace, which given his physique will probably be an issue sooner than it would be for most players. You only have to look at Owen to see how a 'world beater' can turn into a carthorse when success comes early and pace is lost.

 

Enjoy Messi for what he is now and judge his greatness when his career is ending.

 

true. Anybody can be injured and not fulfill their talent. Look at Gazza.

[Brock Manson 0]

I believe Cruyff rates Messi as an all-time great (or words to that effect).

SBR thought Carl Cort was worth £7m. Alex Ferguson paid £25m for Sebastian Veron.

I doubt either rated them as all-time greats (or good buys) in hindsight though.

Aye, and hindsight is what Messi should be judged with when it comes to talk of all time greatness.

 

There’s plenty of time for his career to go into decline, plenty of time for him to lose half a yard of pace, which given his physique will probably be an issue sooner than it would be for most players. You only have to look at Owen to see how a 'world beater' can turn into a carthorse when success comes early and pace is lost.

 

Enjoy Messi for what he is now and judge his greatness when his career is ending.

 

Owen was never scoring 40+ a season when he was in his early 20s!

[McFaul 35]

I believe Cruyff rates Messi as an all-time great (or words to that effect).

I wonder if he would if he played for Real Madrid rather than Barcelona.

[Tom 14011]

By the same token I wonder why Sir Alex Ferguson rates Ronaldo above Messi.

[Kid Dynamite 7030]

Anyone on here read Maradona's autobiography? What a grade A cunt. Demanded separate lodgings and his own ferraris shipped over when playing in tournaments with Argentina so he didn't have to mingle with the lesser players. And people say he inspired those around him to greatness Hoyed out of another World Cup for being high as a kite. Royally screwed Naples when he left them and sunk like a stone when he did.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

Maradona is a mad footballing genius. He's an addict and will take his struggle with sobriety day by day until his last breath. He has fallen off the wagon several times, most noticeably when he picked Gutierrez ahead of Zanetti for the national team.

[Guest Your Name Here]

Messi is the icing on the cake in a great team. Maradona turned average teams into champions.

 

Maradona had all of Messi’s skills (and then some) and he inspired those around him, whereas Messi (for all his dribbling skill) doesn’t.

 

There’s more to being a great footballer than technique and Messi doesn’t bear comparison with the likes of Cruyff, Beckenbaur and Maradona.

I'm not saying Messi is better than or going to be as good as Maradona (he was probably the 2nd best player ever though, tbf, maybe even the best ever) but when you compare what they've achieved at similar ages, then Messi is ahead of him. Maradona's 82 WC campaign was as disastrous from a personal and team pov as Messi's was last time round. Both about the same age too iirc. I take your point about turning average teams into champions but Napoli had some very good players, Careca and Ferrara for example. Probably a more level playing field then as well (I know southern clubs hadn't won the scudetto before but you were playing in an era where teams like Nottingham Forest, Steau Bucharest and Aston Villa had been European Champions in the preceding 10 years). The '86 world cup stands alone as a great, almost single-handed achievement though and I think Maradona did have a certain unique something as a footballing talent. I'm not sure Beckenbauer or Cruyff are that far ahead of Messi mind, and they didn't exactly play in poor teams either, did they? Weren't they 'just' the icing on the cake too?

Some good points, however...

 

Clive Allen scored 49 goals in one season for Spurs; it doesn’t make him a great. He’d only be considered a great if he played in team that was good enough to win stuff. Messi has time to do more with his career but I do think he’s hyped up a bit, with his near anonymity in the WC perhaps highlighting his tendency to drift out of games rather than dominating them.

 

Cryuff turned Ajax from a nothing club into a major European force, where alongside Rinus Michals he also created total football and changed the fortunes of the Dutch national side. He also made a huge impact at Barcelona where he inspired the club to its first La Liga for 15 years, before returning as a manager in the late eighties to win four consecutive domestics titles and lead Barca to their first ever EC. Achievements and a legacy that Messi has yet to come close to matching.

 

I’m not a fan of Barca’s tactic of boring the opposition into submission but they execute it brilliantly, but Iniesta and to lesser extent Zavi are the driving force behind its effectiveness, not Messi.

 

there's no doubt that Maradona dragged an average Argentina team into World Cup winners, and the great players impose themselves. I agree completely. But if Messi is already playing in a great [club] side then he's not called on to do the same is he ? He could have had a poor World Cup, but even if he has a poor one next time, it doesn't necessarily mean he is inferior to Maradona, there are other factors involved. Nobody plays well all the time, it isn't as if you can say he freezes on the big stage because he certainly doesn't with his club.

I wouldn’t disagree with much of that. By the time his career is over Messi might match or surpass the achievements of players like DM and JC, but right now it could go either way.

 

To put it another way what makes Messi a greater player than Van Basten, Gullit or Baresi?

[Guest alex]

I believe Cruyff rates Messi as an all-time great (or words to that effect).

I wonder if he would if he played for Real Madrid rather than Barcelona.

One of the reasons he's great tbh.

[Tooj 17]

 

[Tooj 17]

 

[Tom 14011]

He's shit and unproven because he's never played in the premier league [/AjaxAndy]

[Tooj 17]

[Tooj 17]

 

[ohhh_yeah 2967]

The defenders in La Liga are pish, if he scored 31 in 34 games like Ronaldo did in the Premiership.

 

 

 

Portsmouth, Reading, Middlesbrough, Derby, etc.

[Coggeh 0]

Messi is the best player in the world right now. Jury was out 3 years ago lads...

[OTF 7295]

Would be interesting to see him in the Premier League. I'd say for sure he'd spend more time out injured than he does now. There's plenty of cack defenders in England but I'd say there's definitely a more gradual decline in the quality of teams unlike Spain where there is a huge gulf.