Leeds United

[Kitman 2207]

I dont usually get involved in these little tete a tetes but it has to be pointed out that sniffer was the nickname of Alan Clark, centre forward for Don Revie's Leeds

Perhaps you shouldn't get involved if you can't get it right. Even when you have google to help you out.

 

Mick Jones was the centre forward.

 

Wasn't sniffer Alan Smith's nickname at Leeds? Or am I wide of the mark?

Smudger iirc. Or was that the Arsenal one?

 

Think you're right, I've probably got the wrong Alan Smith

[Craig 6700]

Holy shit that was a good post

It was alright.

 

Two unnecessary digs at KK took the shine off it for me. We were in danger of becoming one-dimensional with Cole so selling him for Gillespie then buying Sir Les with the money was fine by me. Also, you cannot say he lacks backbone. If anything he stands up for his principals too much.

 

Cole was sold for non-footballing reasons. Clark was involved too but heeded a warning.

[sniffer 0]

Holy shit that was a good post

It was alright.

 

Two unnecessary digs at KK took the shine off it for me. We were in danger of becoming one-dimensional with Cole so selling him for Gillespie then buying Sir Les with the money was fine by me. Also, you cannot say he lacks backbone. If anything he stands up for his principals too much.

 

You just don't get it, do you?

 

Selling Cole was not the point. It was selling him to manure.

 

Secondly, we needed a manager who was going to roll up his sleeves and go head to head with SAF. We didn't have one, after all.

[LeazesMag 0]

Holy shit that was a good post

It was alright.

 

Two unnecessary digs at KK took the shine off it for me. We were in danger of becoming one-dimensional with Cole so selling him for Gillespie then buying Sir Les with the money was fine by me. Also, you cannot say he lacks backbone. If anything he stands up for his principals too much.

 

You just don't get it, do you?

 

Selling Cole was not the point. It was selling him to manure.

 

Secondly, we needed a manager who was going to roll up his sleeves and go head to head with SAF. We didn't have one, after all.

 

it's you that doesn't get it. You made a good post, but ruined with 2 fundamental errors, the biggest of which is when you criticised Keegan, the man who completely transformed the club from what it had been and is now back to the shit that it was, and completely ignored the FACT that it was Keegan who decided to sell Andy Cole. Good boards back their managers decisions, and it was Keegans decision to sell Cole and Keegans alone. I presume you are going to say that the board should have overuled Keegan and told him that Andy Cole should not be sold ? What would you have said then ?

 

The second fundamental error you made, before you or anybody else asks, is that the club appointed proven trophy winning managers and backed them ie Kenny Dalglish [who had also gone head to head with Sir Alex Ferguson and beaten him by the way] and Bobby Robson particularly, without mentioning Gullit who was widely thought to be up and coming and the idiot Souness who had nevertheless won the FA Cup and League Cup as a manager. You strike me as a person who has some good and sensible views, but is quite happy to apply hindsight when it suits you.

 

Unless of course, you think the current course of appointing nobodies, or non trophy winners just like the club did for decades before 1992 is a better policy including the present regime ?

 

Edit.

 

In fact, Kevin Keegan took over Newcastle United when not too many other managers had the bottle to do it including Bobby Robson who preferred to manage a shit little club like Ipswich for many years. He was only attracted back to his beloved home town club when they showed him the top club it was then courtesy of the previous regime who backed Keegan and made it the attraction that it was.

Edited July 27, 2010 by LeazesMag

[LeazesMag 0]

I dont usually get involved in these little tete a tetes but it has to be pointed out that sniffer was the nickname of Alan Clark, centre forward for Don Revie's Leeds

Perhaps you shouldn't get involved if you can't get it right. Even when you have google to help you out.

 

Mick Jones was the centre forward.

 

Pedantic.

 

I actually knew that too, but didn't get involved because I don't have a soft spot for Leeds.

[sniffer 0]

I think its you that has it wrong LM. I appreciate virtually everything that KK did and without him we wouldn't have had those years. Same for Hall and Shepherd. But once again, the abilities, commitment, decision making, sheer desire to win ....call it what you will but I think it is epitomized by SAF.....did not match the level of support from the fans. And for one reason or another, none of them saw it through. We were that close but in true Newcastle fashion the whole thing went tits up.

 

Keegan couldn't handle it. SAF would never have ran away like him. He would've made sure that a couple of new players would be brought in for the next season and go head to head again. But it was a huge mistake by Keegan to sell Cole to manure. It's not hindsight as you just don't sell a player like him to your main rival because you are twenty plus goals down straight away. Sell him to everton or west ham or even spurs, not manure. Keegan was fantastic but not perfect by any means and could've thought this through a bit. He is not beyond criticism unless you are nosewater.

 

I thought Dalglish was the perfect replacement for Keegan and the board did a great job to get him. I still cannot believe that things went south because I rated Dalglish but Shearer's injury was key. I have to wonder if SAF wouldn't have gone out and bought somebody straight away. Another mistake? Same pattern?

 

SBR was an inspired appointment but ten years too late. And I don't blame him at all, but I do fault the players who got him sacked. Dyer in particular, the twat. If I have one thing against SBR it is that throughout his career he never gave us a second glance until he was getting too old. In his heyday he would sorted the likes of dyer out straight away.

 

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by your last paragraph, LM. When I've already said we had a decade of shite managers, why would I want more? I hate to say it, but I certainly don't rate Hughton. For a team that packs in 50,000 and a "big" club, we shouldn't have a coach for a manager.

[sniffer 0]

I dont usually get involved in these little tete a tetes but it has to be pointed out that sniffer was the nickname of Alan Clark, centre forward for Don Revie's Leeds

Perhaps you shouldn't get involved if you can't get it right. Even when you have google to help you out.

 

Mick Jones was the centre forward.

 

Pedantic.

 

I actually knew that too, but didn't get involved because I don't have a soft spot for Leeds.

 

Then why bother now?

[Craig 6700]

You're both wrong. Cole was sold by the club - not the board, nor the manager. It was a decision they both took and were both happy with.

 

He went to Manchester United because they were the only outfit who could (and did) match our valuation. Given the position we were in, replacing him wasn't the issue and anyone of Bergkamp, Collymore, Le Tissier, Armstrong or Ferdinand could have arrived.

 

As I said already, he wasn't sold for footballing reasons - the club made a decision to get him off their hands long before SAF decided to call. Man United's interest was purely convenient.

[spongebob toonpants 4131]

You're both wrong. Cole was sold by the club - not the board, nor the manager. It was a decision they both took and were both happy with.

 

He went to Manchester United because they were the only outfit who could (and did) match our valuation. Given the position we were in, replacing him wasn't the issue and anyone of Bergkamp, Collymore, Le Tissier, Armstrong or Ferdinand could have arrived.

 

As I said already, he wasn't sold for footballing reasons - the club made a decision to get him off their hands long before SAF decided to call. Man United's interest was purely convenient.

 

 

 

Come on then - spill the beans

[Dr Gloom 22142]

You're both wrong. Cole was sold by the club - not the board, nor the manager. It was a decision they both took and were both happy with.

 

He went to Manchester United because they were the only outfit who could (and did) match our valuation. Given the position we were in, replacing him wasn't the issue and anyone of Bergkamp, Collymore, Le Tissier, Armstrong or Ferdinand could have arrived.

 

As I said already, he wasn't sold for footballing reasons - the club made a decision to get him off their hands long before SAF decided to call. Man United's interest was purely convenient.

 

 

 

Come on then - spill the beans

 

yeah, spit it out craig.

[Craig 6700]

Heavily involved (I don't know to what level) in drugs from what I was told. Had dragged Clark into it as well and that was the basis of the pair of them being dropped for the League Cup game against Wimbledon back in 1993.

 

Clark apparently cleaned himself up but Cole didn't hence he was flogged. Club didn't want the association with him and felt he could be adequately replaced.

[Wavey Davey 0]

Heavily involved (I don't know to what level) in drugs from what I was told. Had dragged Clark into it as well and that was the basis of the pair of them being dropped for the League Cup game against Wimbledon back in 1993.

 

Clark apparently cleaned himself up but Cole didn't hence he was flogged. Club didn't want the association with him and felt he could be adequately replaced.

 

I heard about that too. Wasn't Ruel Fox involved somehow?

Edited July 28, 2010 by Zebra

[TheMoog 0]

Heavily involved (I don't know to what level) in drugs from what I was told. Had dragged Clark into it as well and that was the basis of the pair of them being dropped for the League Cup game against Wimbledon back in 1993.

 

Clark apparently cleaned himself up but Cole didn't hence he was flogged. Club didn't want the association with him and felt he could be adequately replaced.

 

No wonder he seemed so quick!

[Craig 6700]

Heavily involved (I don't know to what level) in drugs from what I was told. Had dragged Clark into it as well and that was the basis of the pair of them being dropped for the League Cup game against Wimbledon back in 1993.

 

Clark apparently cleaned himself up but Cole didn't hence he was flogged. Club didn't want the association with him and felt he could be adequately replaced.

 

I heard about that too. Wasn't Ruel Fox involved somehow?

 

Hadn't heard that one but I suppose it's possible.

[Guest Gordon McKeag]

Heavily involved (I don't know to what level) in drugs from what I was told. Had dragged Clark into it as well and that was the basis of the pair of them being dropped for the League Cup game against Wimbledon back in 1993.

 

Clark apparently cleaned himself up but Cole didn't hence he was flogged. Club didn't want the association with him and felt he could be adequately replaced.

 

I heard about that too. Wasn't Ruel Fox involved somehow?

 

Hadn't heard that one but I suppose it's possible.

I met Ruel Fox watchin the reserves in the bar at Gateshead Stadium. "Settling in alright Ruel?" - him no emotion on his face or anything "Yeah fanks" mug.

 

Apparently he had a big cock as well, but he fits the profile of someone you'd expect to be a bit of a toot head.

[Craig 6700]

Heavily involved (I don't know to what level) in drugs from what I was told. Had dragged Clark into it as well and that was the basis of the pair of them being dropped for the League Cup game against Wimbledon back in 1993.

 

Clark apparently cleaned himself up but Cole didn't hence he was flogged. Club didn't want the association with him and felt he could be adequately replaced.

 

I heard about that too. Wasn't Ruel Fox involved somehow?

 

Hadn't heard that one but I suppose it's possible.

I met Ruel Fox watchin the reserves in the bar at Gateshead Stadium. "Settling in alright Ruel?" - him no emotion on his face or anything "Yeah fanks" mug.

 

Apparently he had a big cock as well, but he fits the profile of someone you'd expect to be a bit of a toot head.

 

WTF?

[Guest Gordon McKeag]

Heavily involved (I don't know to what level) in drugs from what I was told. Had dragged Clark into it as well and that was the basis of the pair of them being dropped for the League Cup game against Wimbledon back in 1993.

 

Clark apparently cleaned himself up but Cole didn't hence he was flogged. Club didn't want the association with him and felt he could be adequately replaced.

 

I heard about that too. Wasn't Ruel Fox involved somehow?

 

Hadn't heard that one but I suppose it's possible.

I met Ruel Fox watchin the reserves in the bar at Gateshead Stadium. "Settling in alright Ruel?" - him no emotion on his face or anything "Yeah fanks" mug.

 

Apparently he had a big cock as well, but he fits the profile of someone you'd expect to be a bit of a toot head.

 

WTF?

Aye some cunt was on about it, apparently he was known for having a big cock.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

I think its you that has it wrong LM. I appreciate virtually everything that KK did and without him we wouldn't have had those years. Same for Hall and Shepherd. But once again, the abilities, commitment, decision making, sheer desire to win ....call it what you will but I think it is epitomized by SAF.....did not match the level of support from the fans. And for one reason or another, none of them saw it through. We were that close but in true Newcastle fashion the whole thing went tits up.

 

Keegan couldn't handle it. SAF would never have ran away like him. He would've made sure that a couple of new players would be brought in for the next season and go head to head again. But it was a huge mistake by Keegan to sell Cole to manure. It's not hindsight as you just don't sell a player like him to your main rival because you are twenty plus goals down straight away. Sell him to everton or west ham or even spurs, not manure. Keegan was fantastic but not perfect by any means and could've thought this through a bit. He is not beyond criticism unless you are nosewater.

 

I thought Dalglish was the perfect replacement for Keegan and the board did a great job to get him. I still cannot believe that things went south because I rated Dalglish but Shearer's injury was key. I have to wonder if SAF wouldn't have gone out and bought somebody straight away. Another mistake? Same pattern?

 

SBR was an inspired appointment but ten years too late. And I don't blame him at all, but I do fault the players who got him sacked. Dyer in particular, the twat. If I have one thing against SBR it is that throughout his career he never gave us a second glance until he was getting too old. In his heyday he would sorted the likes of dyer out straight away.

 

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by your last paragraph, LM. When I've already said we had a decade of shite managers, why would I want more? I hate to say it, but I certainly don't rate Hughton. For a team that packs in 50,000 and a "big" club, we shouldn't have a coach for a manager.

Yes, I see it now: How dare Keegan come here and not be as good as the most successful domestic manager in British football history. The cunt.

 

Man U were the only club who could've taken Cole off us then, as Craig correctly points out. No-one else had the financial muscle back then and going to anyone but ourselves or ManU would have been a step down for the player.

[LeazesMag 0]

I dont usually get involved in these little tete a tetes but it has to be pointed out that sniffer was the nickname of Alan Clark, centre forward for Don Revie's Leeds

Perhaps you shouldn't get involved if you can't get it right. Even when you have google to help you out.

 

Mick Jones was the centre forward.

 

Pedantic.

 

I actually knew that too, but didn't get involved because I don't have a soft spot for Leeds.

 

Then why bother now?

 

because I wondered if you would do it first.

 

I'll answer your other post later, not that I disagree with much about it, because I don't.

[LeazesMag 0]

I think its you that has it wrong LM. I appreciate virtually everything that KK did and without him we wouldn't have had those years. Same for Hall and Shepherd. But once again, the abilities, commitment, decision making, sheer desire to win ....call it what you will but I think it is epitomized by SAF.....did not match the level of support from the fans. And for one reason or another, none of them saw it through. We were that close but in true Newcastle fashion the whole thing went tits up.

 

Keegan couldn't handle it. SAF would never have ran away like him. He would've made sure that a couple of new players would be brought in for the next season and go head to head again. But it was a huge mistake by Keegan to sell Cole to manure. It's not hindsight as you just don't sell a player like him to your main rival because you are twenty plus goals down straight away. Sell him to everton or west ham or even spurs, not manure. Keegan was fantastic but not perfect by any means and could've thought this through a bit. He is not beyond criticism unless you are nosewater.

 

I thought Dalglish was the perfect replacement for Keegan and the board did a great job to get him. I still cannot believe that things went south because I rated Dalglish but Shearer's injury was key. I have to wonder if SAF wouldn't have gone out and bought somebody straight away. Another mistake? Same pattern?

 

SBR was an inspired appointment but ten years too late. And I don't blame him at all, but I do fault the players who got him sacked. Dyer in particular, the twat. If I have one thing against SBR it is that throughout his career he never gave us a second glance until he was getting too old. In his heyday he would sorted the likes of dyer out straight away.

 

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by your last paragraph, LM. When I've already said we had a decade of shite managers, why would I want more? I hate to say it, but I certainly don't rate Hughton. For a team that packs in 50,000 and a "big" club, we shouldn't have a coach for a manager.

 

 

You are being grossly unfair comparing so much with Sir Alex Ferguson. Everybody would like someone to match him, we got close. Loads of clubs got nowhere near.

 

If Shearer had not been injured then the Dalglish era may well have ended up entirely differently. I suppose that comes under the bad luck banner. What can you do about that ? I dare say ManU would have gone out and replaced him, but who else would have been able to do that ? You can't slate Newcastle for not being able to do what ManU are able to do. I see your point that selling Cole to manu wasn't the best idea, but at the time, they were the only club better than us and setting similar if not higher aspirations ?

 

SBR was indeed years too late, and yes he wasn't interested in managing his home town club when they were shit, any more than Gazza, Beardsley and Waddle wanted to continue playing. You can't blame any of them for that either, my point is the people who took over in 1992 are the only people in my life who attempted to put the club where it ought to be. That is all my point has ever been, and that they would be extremely difficult to replace with better.

[LeazesMag 0]

well.

 

That seems to have killed this stone dead.

 

Shame.

[sniffer 0]

I've never heard that about Cole and drugs. If he was taking any drugs it certainly didn't affect his performance. I'd be inclined to think it would've shown up in a medical as well so I'd have thought manure would've knocked him back. Anyway, it wasn't the brightest move selling him to them at almost a goal every two games.

 

Its not true to say that manure were the only club that could afford him either as arsenal broke that record only a few months later. Without looking it up, I'd bet that other players moved for sizeable fees around that time as well. Then there was the possibility of shopping him abroad. Anywhere but manu.

 

We are on the same page regarding the Hall/Shepherd era, LM. Anybody who disagrees with that is arguing for arguing sake when you consider the under acheivement of the last 50 years or so. Saying that, in true Newcastle fashion, the club's commitment from board to manager and players didn't match up to that of the fans. Hall and Shepherd did OK for themselves just as did Westwood and McKeag. Hall and Shepherd just gave us a lot more than them but at the end of the day we still didn't win. Had a good time admittedly but the clubs who lifted the trophy had better ones.

 

I was watching 500 greatest goals in a bar the other night and Peter Beardsley scored a cracker for England. I'm not sure of the game, but first one to congratulate him was Waddle and then Gascoigne so it must have been about 1990 I think. Makes you wonder what if..........what if we weren't a selling club and had those three players and added a few more? What if we actually got everything right...board, manager and players....and our acheivements matched our level of support?

Then we'd be a big club.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

I've never heard that about Cole and drugs. If he was taking any drugs it certainly didn't affect his performance. I'd be inclined to think it would've shown up in a medical as well so I'd have thought manure would've knocked him back. Anyway, it wasn't the brightest move selling him to them at almost a goal every two games.

 

Have to say i have doubts about it as well, firstly that Cole and Clark were massively into drugs and that secondly Fergie wouldn't touch a player known for that with a bargepole. Wasn't sorting out the drinking culture one of the first things he did at manu, i don't see him being stupid enough to take on a drug problem.

 

I also agree you don't sell your no.1 striker to your then rivals to help them, even if we got a winger KK wanted in part exchange. However if Keegan thought it best then i'd back him (well, i did eventually back then!) after everything he'd done, but personally i'd never have given them Cole if i was selling him.

[Guest Gordon McKeag]

I've never heard that about Cole and drugs. If he was taking any drugs it certainly didn't affect his performance. I'd be inclined to think it would've shown up in a medical as well so I'd have thought manure would've knocked him back. Anyway, it wasn't the brightest move selling him to them at almost a goal every two games.

 

Its not true to say that manure were the only club that could afford him either as arsenal broke that record only a few months later. Without looking it up, I'd bet that other players moved for sizeable fees around that time as well. Then there was the possibility of shopping him abroad. Anywhere but manu.

 

We are on the same page regarding the Hall/Shepherd era, LM. Anybody who disagrees with that is arguing for arguing sake when you consider the under acheivement of the last 50 years or so. Saying that, in true Newcastle fashion, the club's commitment from board to manager and players didn't match up to that of the fans. Hall and Shepherd did OK for themselves just as did Westwood and McKeag. Hall and Shepherd just gave us a lot more than them but at the end of the day we still didn't win. Had a good time admittedly but the clubs who lifted the trophy had better ones.

 

I was watching 500 greatest goals in a bar the other night and Peter Beardsley scored a cracker for England. I'm not sure of the game, but first one to congratulate him was Waddle and then Gascoigne so it must have been about 1990 I think. Makes you wonder what if..........what if we weren't a selling club and had those three players and added a few more? What if we actually got everything right...board, manager and players....and our acheivements matched our level of support?

Then we'd be a big club.

Yes, but there are only four big clubs, and the original point was comparing our heritage, history and status to that of Leeds and as has been correctly pointed out Leeds are a nothing club, something which has been proven, and in your stubborn Yorkshire way refuse to accept.

 

That England goal iirc was about 1990 after the WC, England v Poland, did he shoot from the right wing swerving towards the near post. Taylor wants locking up for disposing of him shortly after.

[Guest alex]

Can't remember who it was against but Pedro scored a similar goal for at SJP at a later date.