SJH speaks

[LeazesMag 0]

There were loads on here forecasting relegation etc at the start of this season.....Doom mongers.

 

Source?

 

 

Various accadacca threads for starters

 

No. acca said it would be a walk in the park. People were wary of being so cocky. Which is fair enough given our undeserved reputation as delsional fans.

 

Quote the several people that said we'd get relegated though.

 

 

As I said, I've no problem admitting I thought we would struggle, and the reasons why.

 

What a shame that so many people can't bring themselves to admit they were wrong about the Halls and Shepherd, as I told them.

[OTF 7090]

Acrossthepond that was a overly dramatic and negative assessment of our current predicament. Though it was loosely based around fact there was some poetic licence taken there. Whilst we had many of the same players last season it was the instability and negativity at the club that was a huge contributor to the eventual relegation. This coupled with an ill-founded confidence from out owner that we were somehow immune from relegation meant that when they should have been strengthening the side they instead weakened it. Personally if we were to take on Another season with the same players we had in 2009-2010 then I have every confidence that they would not be relegated. Even with the typically large injury problems the players were too good by comparison to be relegated. Unfortunately it's not just about the players, but also about the mangement, the coaching staff, the owner, the supporters... They all play their part in the overall performance fthe side.

 

If we were to have a manager who can get the most out of our side then I think at presen we could compete with some of the lower ranked premier league sides. If we were to bring in three or four good players in the window then we could then compete with the midtable sides. The 5 odd million spent in the last window won't be enough in the upcoming one, but for the upcoming window there's every chance that we'll be a premirleague side where-as in the last we were a championship side. Being in the top league not only makes us a far more attractive prospect for players but should also necessitate a greater overall spend.

 

You're overly critical on the players brought in during the last window. All of them bar Best have proved useful and have added some depth or dimension to the side. Routledge adds muh needed pace and creativity down he right. Williamson looks a solid no nonsense defender. Fitz Hall has been invaluable cover for injuries. Van aanholt filled the gap during enrique's absence nicely. Simpson has been a solid contributor all season.

[Christmas Tree 4433]

I'd like to hear CT explain what trophyshy said earlier about how the Ashley regime still hasn't apologised for deliberately and intentionally misleading (and lying to) the fans. That really sums up who these people are to me. They are just lying scum who are here to make a profit and will do whatever it takes, and every so often they will try to offer us some kind of sop or sacrificial lamb (Ashley's relegation 'apology', bringing in Shearer and sacking Wise (but not appointing Shearer after the inevitable happened), best fans in the world bollocks, claiming to be selling the club when it's really looking bad) while abusing us all the way.

 

They don't care about this club any further than their next payoff and everything is being done in the short term. There is no sign of planning ahead. None. We've got players who are Championship level, a manager who's Championship level, new signings who are Championship level, and we're expecting to take that to the PL next season and succeed somehow. Some will point to the 5 million pounds or so we spent in January and say that's evidence that Ashley is willing to support the club financially, but 5 million pounds won't take us very far (considerable understatement) in June. We don't need to 'strengthen' the squad, we need to rebuild it. Because right now we have the same core of players who weren't good enough to keep us up the first time, minus most of those who were actually decent, and there's only one outcome there.

 

Then there's the issue of who will spend the money if it is made available. Hughton got the green light to buy players in January and he did some good business on Routledge but blew money on a useless player in Best and if it's going to be a case of buy one decent player and buy one shit player at the same time in June then we may as well stay down and avoid the embarrassment of what will happen to us next season. Hughton isn't good enough for the PL in terms of tactics and team selection or in terms of buying and selling players.

 

It's all gearing up to be a triumphant return to the PL, buy some shit players and sell some good ones, get thrashed over and over again, fans begin to turn against the board, they try to hold us off for as long as possible talking about "stability" and reveling in having achieved the monumental accomplishment of getting us promoted again (they will spin it as an accomplishment and we will be expected to politely overlook the fact that they got us relegated in the first place) until December rolls around and they choose Hughton as their next sacrifice, then bring in another out-of-work nobody manager (or maybe take the even cheaper option and promote Calderwood) and it will just be a repeat of last season.

 

Yes, I am a doom monger. Because doom is what we are looking at with Ashley in charge.

 

 

They said they've made mistakes and want to put them right. Its not confession, they are not going to go through each mistake by name and apologise for it to tot up the number of hail marys.. Be gracious enough to accept the apology.

 

All owners / boards are here to make a profit, however Ashleys probably the only owner who so far hasnt.

 

Appointing Shearer would have been a disaster imo

 

With regard to the rest of your post I agree with Oz and find it very emotional and invalid.

 

Appointing Hughton has created stability. His mission was promotion and he has bought / loaned the right players to achieve it

 

You have no idea what will happen come June.

[Guest alex]

ATP telling it like it is. Just some people don't want to listen.

[Craig 6576]

ATP telling it like it is. Just some people don't want to listen.

 

Agreed. He's got it in a nutshell IMO.

[trophyshy 7056]

a leopard does not change its spots.

Edited March 20, 2010 by trophyshy

[Asprilla 96]

I'd like to hear CT explain what trophyshy said earlier about how the Ashley regime still hasn't apologised for deliberately and intentionally misleading (and lying to) the fans. That really sums up who these people are to me. They are just lying scum who are here to make a profit and will do whatever it takes, and every so often they will try to offer us some kind of sop or sacrificial lamb (Ashley's relegation 'apology', bringing in Shearer and sacking Wise (but not appointing Shearer after the inevitable happened), best fans in the world bollocks, claiming to be selling the club when it's really looking bad) while abusing us all the way.

 

They don't care about this club any further than their next payoff and everything is being done in the short term. There is no sign of planning ahead. None. We've got players who are Championship level, a manager who's Championship level, new signings who are Championship level, and we're expecting to take that to the PL next season and succeed somehow. Some will point to the 5 million pounds or so we spent in January and say that's evidence that Ashley is willing to support the club financially, but 5 million pounds won't take us very far (considerable understatement) in June. We don't need to 'strengthen' the squad, we need to rebuild it. Because right now we have the same core of players who weren't good enough to keep us up the first time, minus most of those who were actually decent, and there's only one outcome there.

 

Then there's the issue of who will spend the money if it is made available. Hughton got the green light to buy players in January and he did some good business on Routledge but blew money on a useless player in Best and if it's going to be a case of buy one decent player and buy one shit player at the same time in June then we may as well stay down and avoid the embarrassment of what will happen to us next season. Hughton isn't good enough for the PL in terms of tactics and team selection or in terms of buying and selling players.

 

It's all gearing up to be a triumphant return to the PL, buy some shit players and sell some good ones, get thrashed over and over again, fans begin to turn against the board, they try to hold us off for as long as possible talking about "stability" and reveling in having achieved the monumental accomplishment of getting us promoted again (they will spin it as an accomplishment and we will be expected to politely overlook the fact that they got us relegated in the first place) until December rolls around and they choose Hughton as their next sacrifice, then bring in another out-of-work nobody manager (or maybe take the even cheaper option and promote Calderwood) and it will just be a repeat of last season.

 

Yes, I am a doom monger. Because doom is what we are looking at with Ashley in charge.

I agree with most of your post but I do think there's a chance we could do a fair bit better next season than we did when we got relegated. For one thing there seems to be more of a united side now with fewer mercenaries. How much a player earns is no indication of his usefulness as we have found in the past.

 

The nucleus of the side we have now is younger and yes it's not particularly exciting but there has been relative stability. Hughton has them winning and though I realise that it's a very different league, I think the gulf in class really only affects the top half of the Premiership rather than the bottom.

[Happy Face 29]

There were loads on here forecasting relegation etc at the start of this season.....Doom mongers.

 

Source?

 

 

Various accadacca threads for starters

 

No. acca said it would be a walk in the park. People were wary of being so cocky. Which is fair enough given our undeserved reputation as delsional fans.

 

Quote the several people that said we'd get relegated though.

 

 

As I said, I've no problem admitting I thought we would struggle, and the reasons why.

 

What a shame that so many people can't bring themselves to admit they were wrong about the Halls and Shepherd, as I told them.

 

 

Who was wrong about the Halls and Shepherd's? What made their long term prospects better than Portsmouth's (who also came up from the second division and got into Europe for good times off the back of big spending)? Was Portsmouth's problem only that they didn't spend MORE when they started to decline. You're spot on that it was some of the best times we'll not see for a long time, you've just never explained what made it sustainable once shepherd had the club losing £30m a season, in debt for over £70m and finishing in the bottom half regularly.

Edited March 20, 2010 by Happy Face

[peasepud 59]

A football club making a profit is a successfully RAN football club.

 

A succesfull football club twins consistent profit with the winning of domestic and continental trophies.

 

Anything else is NOT success.

 

Simples.

 

Football of the future.....

[FCUM 1]

I know he did a lot of good but I feel his vision for NUFC ultimately took the heart and soul away from the club by making it a big corporate affair and severing links between the clubs and its fans, the local community etc.

And he's a Tory.

And he's a mackem.

 

Alex,

 

Well I agree with you to some extent, I don't think that was SJH's intention.

 

Without wishing to say too much, I had a fairly 'priveliged' view of the original Magpie group via one of it's members. I think Hall's intentions were to ultimately put the club into the hands of the supporters. Barcelona was his model, he wanted NUFC ultimately run on similar lines. Unfortunately, I think things ran away from him a little, whilst he was rejuvinating NUFC the money started to fly into the game, clubs values increased massively. It rapidly reached the state where the club's value made it all but impossible to get 100% fan ownership. Yes, I agree he could have been a philanthropist and sold to the fans at well below market value but you have to bear in mind there was other people's cash invested too.

 

I've a lot of time for Hall and met him a lot in the months leading up to the takeover and I do think his motives were genuine. There was some 'self aggrandisment' there, he did want to be seen and remembered as the 'Geordie Messiah' who pulled all of Newcastle sporting roots under one umbrella and then placed them into hands of the supporters ala Barcelona but the idea was good in principle.

 

At the end of the day he was a businessman though and took his profit when he realised he couldn't hang with the real big money coming into the game.

[LeazesMag 0]

There were loads on here forecasting relegation etc at the start of this season.....Doom mongers.

 

Source?

 

 

Various accadacca threads for starters

 

No. acca said it would be a walk in the park. People were wary of being so cocky. Which is fair enough given our undeserved reputation as delsional fans.

 

Quote the several people that said we'd get relegated though.

 

 

As I said, I've no problem admitting I thought we would struggle, and the reasons why.

 

What a shame that so many people can't bring themselves to admit they were wrong about the Halls and Shepherd, as I told them.

 

 

Who was wrong about the Halls and Shepherd's? What made their long term prospects better than Portsmouth's (who also came up from the second division and got into Europe for good times off the back of big spending)? Was Portsmouth's problem only that they didn't spend MORE when they started to decline. You're spot on that it was some of the best times we'll not see for a long time, you've just never explained what made it sustainable once shepherd had the club losing £30m a season, in debt for over £70m and finishing in the bottom half regularly.

 

you can't talk about long term prospects when they ran the club for 15 years and delivered more than anybody had done for decades previous to them, and so far the current owner.

 

I've never denied they made mistakes, the situation at the end was recoverable, the appointment of Allardyce was recognition of a new approach, but at the end of the day give me a board with ambition to compete at the top levels against one who does not anyday.

[Happy Face 29]

There were loads on here forecasting relegation etc at the start of this season.....Doom mongers.

 

Source?

 

 

Various accadacca threads for starters

 

No. acca said it would be a walk in the park. People were wary of being so cocky. Which is fair enough given our undeserved reputation as delsional fans.

 

Quote the several people that said we'd get relegated though.

 

 

As I said, I've no problem admitting I thought we would struggle, and the reasons why.

 

What a shame that so many people can't bring themselves to admit they were wrong about the Halls and Shepherd, as I told them.

 

 

Who was wrong about the Halls and Shepherd's? What made their long term prospects better than Portsmouth's (who also came up from the second division and got into Europe for good times off the back of big spending)? Was Portsmouth's problem only that they didn't spend MORE when they started to decline. You're spot on that it was some of the best times we'll not see for a long time, you've just never explained what made it sustainable once shepherd had the club losing £30m a season, in debt for over £70m and finishing in the bottom half regularly.

 

you can't talk about long term prospects when they ran the club for 15 years and delivered more than anybody had done for decades previous to them, and so far the current owner.

 

I've never denied they made mistakes, the situation at the end was recoverable, the appointment of Allardyce was recognition of a new approach, but at the end of the day give me a board with ambition to compete at the top levels against one who does not anyday.

 

And I don't think anyone's ever denied they did great things, so why do you keep bringing it up?

[LeazesMag 0]

There were loads on here forecasting relegation etc at the start of this season.....Doom mongers.

 

Source?

 

 

Various accadacca threads for starters

 

No. acca said it would be a walk in the park. People were wary of being so cocky. Which is fair enough given our undeserved reputation as delsional fans.

 

Quote the several people that said we'd get relegated though.

 

 

As I said, I've no problem admitting I thought we would struggle, and the reasons why.

 

What a shame that so many people can't bring themselves to admit they were wrong about the Halls and Shepherd, as I told them.

 

 

Who was wrong about the Halls and Shepherd's? What made their long term prospects better than Portsmouth's (who also came up from the second division and got into Europe for good times off the back of big spending)? Was Portsmouth's problem only that they didn't spend MORE when they started to decline. You're spot on that it was some of the best times we'll not see for a long time, you've just never explained what made it sustainable once shepherd had the club losing £30m a season, in debt for over £70m and finishing in the bottom half regularly.

 

you can't talk about long term prospects when they ran the club for 15 years and delivered more than anybody had done for decades previous to them, and so far the current owner.

 

I've never denied they made mistakes, the situation at the end was recoverable, the appointment of Allardyce was recognition of a new approach, but at the end of the day give me a board with ambition to compete at the top levels against one who does not anyday.

 

And I don't think anyone's ever denied they did great things, so why do you keep bringing it up?

 

why do some people continue to accept lower standards ?

[Happy Face 29]

There were loads on here forecasting relegation etc at the start of this season.....Doom mongers.

 

Source?

 

 

Various accadacca threads for starters

 

No. acca said it would be a walk in the park. People were wary of being so cocky. Which is fair enough given our undeserved reputation as delsional fans.

 

Quote the several people that said we'd get relegated though.

 

 

As I said, I've no problem admitting I thought we would struggle, and the reasons why.

 

What a shame that so many people can't bring themselves to admit they were wrong about the Halls and Shepherd, as I told them.

 

 

Who was wrong about the Halls and Shepherd's? What made their long term prospects better than Portsmouth's (who also came up from the second division and got into Europe for good times off the back of big spending)? Was Portsmouth's problem only that they didn't spend MORE when they started to decline. You're spot on that it was some of the best times we'll not see for a long time, you've just never explained what made it sustainable once shepherd had the club losing £30m a season, in debt for over £70m and finishing in the bottom half regularly.

 

you can't talk about long term prospects when they ran the club for 15 years and delivered more than anybody had done for decades previous to them, and so far the current owner.

 

I've never denied they made mistakes, the situation at the end was recoverable, the appointment of Allardyce was recognition of a new approach, but at the end of the day give me a board with ambition to compete at the top levels against one who does not anyday.

 

And I don't think anyone's ever denied they did great things, so why do you keep bringing it up?

 

why do some people continue to accept lower standards ?

 

 

Who? Christmas Tree?

 

Give him a defeat or two and he'll be running for office in the NUST and organising protests. His opinion changes with every fare in his cab.

[Christmas Tree 4433]

[Christmas Tree 4433]

In seriousness Leazes, I'm not sure what you mean by accept lower standards.

 

I wasn't sure we had a choice on the matter or could effect it.

 

Even for those of us who have so far boycotted by our wallets, it's still your team, good or bad

[LeazesMag 0]

In seriousness Leazes, I'm not sure what you mean by accept lower standards.

 

I wasn't sure we had a choice on the matter or could effect it.

 

Even for those of us who have so far boycotted by our wallets, it's still your team, good or bad

 

 

 

You are aware that this sterling job Ashley has done, is put us into our lowest league position for nearly 20 years ?

[Christmas Tree 4433]

In seriousness Leazes, I'm not sure what you mean by accept lower standards.

 

I wasn't sure we had a choice on the matter or could effect it.

 

Even for those of us who have so far boycotted by our wallets, it's still your team, good or bad

 

 

 

You are aware that this sterling job Ashley has done, is put us into our lowest league position for nearly 20 years ?

 

 

And one of the most exciting periods of the last several years but hey ho.

[LeazesMag 0]

In seriousness Leazes, I'm not sure what you mean by accept lower standards.

 

I wasn't sure we had a choice on the matter or could effect it.

 

Even for those of us who have so far boycotted by our wallets, it's still your team, good or bad

 

 

 

You are aware that this sterling job Ashley has done, is put us into our lowest league position for nearly 20 years ?

 

 

And one of the most exciting periods of the last several years but hey ho.

 

you've just confirmed my point.

[TheMoog 0]

In seriousness Leazes, I'm not sure what you mean by accept lower standards.

 

I wasn't sure we had a choice on the matter or could effect it.

 

Even for those of us who have so far boycotted by our wallets, it's still your team, good or bad

 

 

 

You are aware that this sterling job Ashley has done, is put us into our lowest league position for nearly 20 years ?

 

 

And one of the most exciting periods of the last several years but hey ho.

 

you've just confirmed my point.

 

Fucking exciting?! Exciting??? Of course you're taking the piss CT... jesus christ on a bike, I really do despair of the younger Toon fans these days.

[Craig 6576]

In seriousness Leazes, I'm not sure what you mean by accept lower standards.

 

I wasn't sure we had a choice on the matter or could effect it.

 

Even for those of us who have so far boycotted by our wallets, it's still your team, good or bad

 

 

 

You are aware that this sterling job Ashley has done, is put us into our lowest league position for nearly 20 years ?

 

 

And one of the most exciting periods of the last several years but hey ho.

 

Fucking hell are you for real?

[Christmas Tree 4433]

You can't tell me that the rollercoaster of the last 18 months hasn't been exciting!!!!

 

This is football you know not chess or tiddlywinks.

 

Relegation is just as much part of football as anything else.

 

Or did you all prefer those dreary non entity seasons we've experienced over the years.

 

Gut wrenching to get relegated, exciting heading for promotion.

 

If you don't enjoy relegation and promotion you should find a new hobby.

[Deano 0]

CT...

 

The last 18 months have been anything but exciting mate!

 

I take positives from relegation...the fact we had the chance to shift the shit, cut down to bare bones and start building from scratch again but that said, us languising in the countries second league after years and years of PL football, european nights and good cup runs this is as far from exciting as you could get.

 

Watching our boys play against dross week in week out is torture rather than enjoyment.

 

I will be pleased when we get promoted, delighted if we win the CCC but i sure as hell havnt enjoyed this season at all.

 

Some say its nice to see the lads winning regularly, but winning against shit?

 

I dont think the excitement and enjoyment will come back until the season after next...next year will be tense and until we get a new manager in and get rid of FMA or he actually commits and puts decent money forward for quality players then we wont have that for a while.

[Craig 6576]

If you don't enjoy relegation and promotion you should find a new hobby.

 

The reason you're in the pro-Ashley camp suddenly becomes clearer....

[Phil 6]

Despite CT's daft response the question still stands!

 

Why if Leazers accepts the old regime made mistakes and we accept they gave us the best football in years does he keep banging on about them?