General Election 2010

[Christmas Tree 4839]

Good blog from Stephen Fry on the state of play and what he thinks will happen next, and sadly he'll be right:

 

Blog

 

 

Totally agree with the first paragraph. Thats been bugging me each time Ive heard it said this week.

 

As for the PR debate thats a tricky one. All the indications tonight are that the deal is nearly done so a compromise of some sort must have been done.

 

Still uncertain if there is a real public clamour for PR. Do we really want to go through this every time we vote?

 

Personally i don't want total PR, the BNP and UKIP between them got something like 1.5m votes, they'd by right have to have seats in the commons! My mate suggested if you do have PR its only for the parties who finish 1 to 3 which keeps out the loons and racists! So you need to find some way of bringing in a form of PR that works, is fair and keeps out the likes of the BNP!

 

Also does anyone know exactly how the Australian system works and Fry seemed to think it was pretty good, but i've not read up on how they do things.

 

 

Yes but Fry like others wants a Tory free world, because of Thatcher!!!

 

First of all she's been gone 20 years, move on and second I dont want a system that only ever delivers a labour or lib dem pact.

 

Lawmakers have to take into effect the blind voting ways of most of the North East, Scotland and wales.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

Good blog from Stephen Fry on the state of play and what he thinks will happen next, and sadly he'll be right:

 

Blog

 

 

Totally agree with the first paragraph. Thats been bugging me each time Ive heard it said this week.

 

As for the PR debate thats a tricky one. All the indications tonight are that the deal is nearly done so a compromise of some sort must have been done.

 

Still uncertain if there is a real public clamour for PR. Do we really want to go through this every time we vote?

 

Personally i don't want total PR, the BNP and UKIP between them got something like 1.5m votes, they'd by right have to have seats in the commons! My mate suggested if you do have PR its only for the parties who finish 1 to 3 which keeps out the loons and racists! So you need to find some way of bringing in a form of PR that works, is fair and keeps out the likes of the BNP!

 

Also does anyone know exactly how the Australian system works and Fry seemed to think it was pretty good, but i've not read up on how they do things.

 

 

Yes but Fry like others wants a Tory free world, because of Thatcher!!!

 

First of all she's been gone 20 years, move on and second I dont want a system that only ever delivers a labour or lib dem pact.

 

Lawmakers have to take into effect the blind voting ways of most of the North East, Scotland and wales.

 

Its not blind to never vote for a party that has and will always shaft the people who live there, and i could name many places that blindy vote tory and always will, want to take into effect those as well?

 

And Fry doesn't want a tory free world because of thatcher (though that is reason enough) he made his reasons clear in the article, because like most intelligent and decent people he can see liars who haven't changed and never will and he doesn't like what they stand for.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Papa Lazaru

[Park Life 71]

YOUR controllers will NOT countenance PR.

[Christmas Tree 4839]

Good blog from Stephen Fry on the state of play and what he thinks will happen next, and sadly he'll be right:

 

Blog

 

 

Totally agree with the first paragraph. Thats been bugging me each time Ive heard it said this week.

 

As for the PR debate thats a tricky one. All the indications tonight are that the deal is nearly done so a compromise of some sort must have been done.

 

Still uncertain if there is a real public clamour for PR. Do we really want to go through this every time we vote?

 

Personally i don't want total PR, the BNP and UKIP between them got something like 1.5m votes, they'd by right have to have seats in the commons! My mate suggested if you do have PR its only for the parties who finish 1 to 3 which keeps out the loons and racists! So you need to find some way of bringing in a form of PR that works, is fair and keeps out the likes of the BNP!

 

Also does anyone know exactly how the Australian system works and Fry seemed to think it was pretty good, but i've not read up on how they do things.

 

 

Yes but Fry like others wants a Tory free world, because of Thatcher!!!

 

First of all she's been gone 20 years, move on and second I dont want a system that only ever delivers a labour or lib dem pact.

 

Lawmakers have to take into effect the blind voting ways of most of the North East, Scotland and wales.

 

Its not blind to never vote for a party that has and will always shaft the people who live there, and i could name many places that blindy vote tory and always will, want to take into effect those as well?

 

And Fry doesn't want a tory free world because of thatcher (though that is reason enough) he made his reasons clear in the article, because like most intelligent and decent people he can see liars who haven't changed and never will and he doesn't like what they stand for.

 

First of all there are blind voters on both sides and we all know that it is only in the constituencies of about 100 seats where voters do change sides that elections are won and lost.

 

Banging on about Thatcher now is like harping back to Heath.

 

What lies has Cameron told?

[Renton 22004]

Well, well, once again CT is condescending to the good people of the North East, and is apparently completely unaware of his hypocrisy by not mentioning who large swathes of the South East and practically all rural England always vote for. Fucking hell.

 

Fry's analysis may be spot on, but I wouldn't despair just yet. One good thing that came out of this election I think is that it showed that the majority of people in this country are caring and compassionate, and believe in some form of progressive socialism. By majority, I actually mean over 50% (take note Cameron). This is why the tories are bricking it over PR. I honestly think this may be the kick up the arse that Labour need either in the immediate or near future and we will get PR within this decade. If nothing, this situation will force people to think about the issue, which can only help. Let's hope so anyway.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Renton

[trophyshy 7084]

Can I just add that John Major was a cunt as well?

[Christmas Tree 4839]

Well, well, once again CT is condescending to the good people of the North East, and is apparently completely unaware of his hypocrisy by not mentioning who large swathes of the South East and practically all rural England always vote for. Fucking hell.

 

Fry's analysis may be spot on, but I wouldn't despair just yet. One good thing that came out of this election I think is that it showed that the majority of people in this country are caring and compassionate, and believe in some form of progressive socialism. By majority, I actually mean over 50% (take note Cameron). This is why the tories are bricking it over PR. I honestly think this may be the kick up the arse that Labour need either in the immediate or near future and we will get PR within this decade. If nothing, this situation will force people to think about the issue, which can only help. Let's hope so anyway.

 

See you've lapped up another sound bite already.

 

The majority of people vote as they always do. A minority of people in 100 seats swung back to conservative.

 

I love the way Im condescending, but yet you label the millions who voted conservative as uncaring and uncompassionate.

 

I'd love to hear why you think the government we end up with under PR will be great. It will probably just leave the same people in power continuously or Labour having to do deals with the BNP to get policy through.

[Christmas Tree 4839]

And yet another vote for the Tories in the Toontastic poll........The message is getting through.

[Meenzer 15731]

Personally i don't want total PR, the BNP and UKIP between them got something like 1.5m votes, they'd by right have to have seats in the commons! My mate suggested if you do have PR its only for the parties who finish 1 to 3 which keeps out the loons and racists! So you need to find some way of bringing in a form of PR that works, is fair and keeps out the likes of the BNP!

 

The 5% threshold in the German system isn't bad.

 

As for the same people permanently holding power, if people are aware in advance that a Lib-Lab pact is the likely outcome of any election under PR where those two parties get 50%+ of the MPs, they can vote against that possibility. (This is one reason I don't think it's a given that PR will actually be a good thing for the Lib Dems!) And more to the point, their vote will actually count, in a way that a vote for a non-Labour party in the barren wastelands of the north-east usually doesn't.

[Christmas Tree 4839]

Personally i don't want total PR, the BNP and UKIP between them got something like 1.5m votes, they'd by right have to have seats in the commons! My mate suggested if you do have PR its only for the parties who finish 1 to 3 which keeps out the loons and racists! So you need to find some way of bringing in a form of PR that works, is fair and keeps out the likes of the BNP!

 

The 5% threshold in the German system isn't bad.

 

As for the same people permanently holding power, if people are aware in advance that a Lib-Lab pact is the likely outcome of any election under PR where those two parties get 50%+ of the MPs, they can vote against that possibility. (This is one reason I don't think it's a given that PR will actually be a good thing for the Lib Dems!) And more to the point, their vote will actually count, in a way that a vote for a non-Labour party in the barren wastelands of the north-east usually doesn't.

 

But thats the problem. Currently its about 20,000 to 30,000 people in who swing in the 100 marginal seats that decide the fate of the nation. The rest on both sides just vote the same way regardless.

 

Like it or not the country sometimes needs labour and sometimes needs Conservative. Having just the centre left continuously we might as well just become a commune.

[Meenzer 15731]

But thats the problem. Currently its about 20,000 to 30,000 people in who swing in the 100 marginal seats that decide the fate of the nation. The rest on both sides just vote the same way regardless.

 

And that wouldn't be the case under PR. The Conservatives should welcome it with open arms.

[Christmas Tree 4839]

We are probably only weeks away from the emergency budget and the pain that will bring.

 

Anyone got any good guesses as to what to expect.

 

VAT to 20% ?

 

Income Tax up ?

 

Petrol Tax up ?

 

Should / Could we get out of the olympics ?

[Christmas Tree 4839]

But thats the problem. Currently its about 20,000 to 30,000 people in who swing in the 100 marginal seats that decide the fate of the nation. The rest on both sides just vote the same way regardless.

 

And that wouldn't be the case under PR. The Conservatives should welcome it with open arms.

 

 

But there must be a big down side for them or they wouldnt be so against it?

[Papa Lazaru 0]

We are probably only weeks away from the emergency budget and the pain that will bring.

 

Anyone got any good guesses as to what to expect.

 

VAT to 20% ?

 

Income Tax up ?

 

Petrol Tax up ?

 

Should / Could we get out of the olympics ?

 

Typical that we have that on top of everything else! Imagine if it was Greece's turn to have it this time round

Edited May 9, 2010 by Papa Lazaru

[Meenzer 15731]

But thats the problem. Currently its about 20,000 to 30,000 people in who swing in the 100 marginal seats that decide the fate of the nation. The rest on both sides just vote the same way regardless.

 

And that wouldn't be the case under PR. The Conservatives should welcome it with open arms.

 

 

But there must be a big down side for them or they wouldnt be so against it?

 

Conservatives in "completely wrong about something" shock.

 

In all seriousness though, it makes a lot of sense for them, particularly in the kind of situation we've just had. People in safe Labour heartland seats who wanted to change an unpopular government couldn't influence that change in any way. The next best alternative was to tactically vote for the second-placed Lib Dem candidate, which obviously gives the impression that Lab-LD would have 50%+ of the MPs under PR, based on pure vote share - but if their vote for the Conservatives, as a de-facto vote of no confidence in the current government, would actually count for something then you'd see a huge LD-Con swing in seats like that.

[Meenzer 15731]

Typical that we have that on top of everything else! Imagine if it was Greece's turn to have it this time round

 

Everyone in the eurozone should vote for Greece to win Eurovision this year, just out of spite.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

Typical that we have that on top of everything else! Imagine if it was Greece's turn to have it this time round

 

Everyone in the eurozone should vote for Greece to win Eurovision this year, just out of spite.

 

 

They'll probably be entering the equivalent of "My lovely horse" to avoid any risk of victory!

[Renton 22004]

See you've lapped up another sound bite already.

 

Eh? The fact that you think that the concepts of being progressive and being socialist are sound bites, whilst repeatedly lapping up Cameron's sound bites, makes me suspect you don't actually know what a sound bite is.

 

The point I was making is that about two thirds of those who voted rejected the tories (despite everything etc), but embraced parties that are progressive (which by definition the Conservatives are not) and, in the main, have socialist values (be it Labour, Liberal, or Green). Again, the Conservative party hardly has socialist values at its core, does it?

[Park Life 71]

We are probably only weeks away from the emergency budget and the pain that will bring.

 

Anyone got any good guesses as to what to expect.

 

VAT to 20% ?

 

Income Tax up ?

 

Petrol Tax up ?

 

Should / Could we get out of the olympics ?

 

Hopefully all those. What will it take before people wake up?

[Monkeys Fist 43088]

Argument for Electoral reform?

The Telegraph

Fri, 07 May 2010 22:49:51 +0100

General Election 2010: councillor loses seat on draw of a card

Most losing election candidates may be tempted to feel they have been dealt a poor hand by fate, but for Bob Peck it was literally the case.

The Conservative former councillor from Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, lost his seat on the draw of a playing card after a tie in a local election.

 

Both he and his Labour opponent, Charlie Marsden, were tied on 1,034 votes after a recount in the Yarmouth North ward.

 

A returning officer produced a pack of cards and said the winner would be the candidate who drew the highest number – as election rules allow.

 

Mr Peck drew a three then saw his rival pick a seven.

 

"It was a nightmare,'' said a local Conservative Party spokesman.

 

''It has happened before but I've never seen it – not the way you want to win or lose."

[sammynb 3508]

We are probably only weeks away from the emergency budget and the pain that will bring.

 

Anyone got any good guesses as to what to expect.

 

VAT to 20% ?

 

Income Tax up ?

 

Petrol Tax up ?

 

Should / Could we get out of the olympics ?

 

Hopefully all those. What will it take before people wake up?

 

Don't forget all the money pumped into and promised for the 2018 WC bid!

 

More likely you will find the NHS, education and anything else a conservative (well half anyway) government deems surplus to the people's (read the better classes) needs will be auctioned off to the highest bidder or in some cases any fucker willing to pay a few quid.

It will be like getting Geremi off NUFC's wage bill.

[Renton 22004]

Argument for Electoral reform?

The Telegraph

Fri, 07 May 2010 22:49:51 +0100

General Election 2010: councillor loses seat on draw of a card

Most losing election candidates may be tempted to feel they have been dealt a poor hand by fate, but for Bob Peck it was literally the case.

The Conservative former councillor from Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, lost his seat on the draw of a playing card after a tie in a local election.

 

Both he and his Labour opponent, Charlie Marsden, were tied on 1,034 votes after a recount in the Yarmouth North ward.

 

A returning officer produced a pack of cards and said the winner would be the candidate who drew the highest number – as election rules allow.

 

Mr Peck drew a three then saw his rival pick a seven.

 

"It was a nightmare,'' said a local Conservative Party spokesman.

 

''It has happened before but I've never seen it – not the way you want to win or lose."

 

Not in this case.

[Craig 6700]

Fucking hell I've been away all weekend and this argument is still raging?

 

There appears to be two seperate camps on this - a small few who think Cameron will be the best thing since sliced bread and the majority who believe he'll be a complete disaster.

 

We'll have another election in the Winter so the country will soon get to decide once more whether it's the right path to follow. The electorate have clearly decided that they want a change to a Labour government - anything other than a outright majority for Labour proves that. But what they're not clear about is who they want instead which barely puts Cameron in a more favourable position.

 

Never the less, it's looking more and more likely he'll be PM. Lets see what he does then and judge him on that. If it's shite, then the majority can have their "told you so.." moments and the follow-up election will result in a resounding defeat for the Tories. If he does sort things out then who knows...

 

At the moment though, we're all arguing about what we think will happen and it's pathetically getting to the levels of personal abuse. CT you haven't got a fucking clue tbh and neither does Renton, Parky et al. I didn't vote for Cameron but more people in the country did than either for Brown or Clegg (admittedly not combined).

 

IMO whoever got in, it was going to be a tough 6 months in terms of the economy and whoever supports the opposition is likely to try to beat the government about the head with it.

 

FWIW I saw a clip on GMTV this morning which stated that the points the Tories and Lib Dems didn't see eye to eye on were:

 

1) Trident

2) Immigration

3) Europe

 

Don't know what point they were making because IIRC, Labour and Lib Dems didn't agree on those issues either.

[Renton 22004]

I would have thought by far the biggest bone of contention between them would have been electoral reform like, did GMTV not mention that?

 

A lot of the problems with Lib Dem manifesto stem from the fact it was naturally written in assumption they would be in opposition so had some wierd stuff in it which is frankly hard to take seriously imo. This took its toll on Thursday as Clegg floundered on all the points you mention.

 

I'm surprised you are surprised that this discussion is still taking place btw Craig, and feel the need to insult all the main contributors. Since when has anyone on a messageboard had a clue?

[NJS 4411]

We are probably only weeks away from the emergency budget and the pain that will bring.

 

Anyone got any good guesses as to what to expect.

 

VAT to 20% ?

 

Income Tax up ?

 

Petrol Tax up ?

 

Should / Could we get out of the olympics ?

 

VAT - possibly - the Tories know indirect taxes affect the poor more so they'd be okay with that.

 

Income tax - not the slightest fucking chance whatsoever.

 

Petrol - probably

 

Olympics - I pass Stratford every morning and I don't know what proportion of the cost has been spent already but it would cost a fucking fortune to abandon it now (and West Ham couldn't afford to finish the stadium).

 

I think they'll anounce something stupid like a 25% cut in all civil service jobs.

Edited May 10, 2010 by NJS