General Election 2010

[ewerk 30385]

From the Telegraph.....

 

 

There is no question that Britain could remain in the market but not the EU’s political structures: several other countries are doing precisely this. Norway is a member of the European Economic Area, which guarantees its participation in the so called “Four Freedoms” of the single market (free movement of goods, services, people and capital). Switzerland has an even better deal, regulating its relations with the EU through a series of sector-specific bilateral accords. Closer to home, the Channel Islands participate in the common market without having joined the EU. Even Tony Blair, in an unguarded moment, admitted that Britain could take this option.

 

Norway gets to protect its fishing stocks as well.

 

I thought you lived in Germany? Do you want free movement rights within Europe or not?

 

 

Being outside the "political" europe does not restrict free movement. You really should read up on this subject.....If you are interested.

 

I'm sorry but you're wrong. Leaving the EU would restrict free movement, unless negotiated otherwise. Of course, such an arrangement would have to be reciprocal.

[Park Life 71]

From the Telegraph.....

 

 

There is no question that Britain could remain in the market but not the EU’s political structures: several other countries are doing precisely this. Norway is a member of the European Economic Area, which guarantees its participation in the so called “Four Freedoms” of the single market (free movement of goods, services, people and capital). Switzerland has an even better deal, regulating its relations with the EU through a series of sector-specific bilateral accords. Closer to home, the Channel Islands participate in the common market without having joined the EU. Even Tony Blair, in an unguarded moment, admitted that Britain could take this option.

 

If you think that the EU countries would let us leave without a fuss then you're wrong imo.

 

Tbh the Germans are getting a bit sick of the Eu as well.

 

I'd have no problems with downsizing the EU to the sort of size it was during the EEC days.

 

The reason they can't do that is that the competition on the doorstep of the EU all deregulated as it would become would be too much competition for the internal market...That's why they keep expanding it. Also why all the Polish leadership were wiped out allegedly.

[Park Life 71]

From the Telegraph.....

 

 

There is no question that Britain could remain in the market but not the EU’s political structures: several other countries are doing precisely this. Norway is a member of the European Economic Area, which guarantees its participation in the so called “Four Freedoms” of the single market (free movement of goods, services, people and capital). Switzerland has an even better deal, regulating its relations with the EU through a series of sector-specific bilateral accords. Closer to home, the Channel Islands participate in the common market without having joined the EU. Even Tony Blair, in an unguarded moment, admitted that Britain could take this option.

 

Norway gets to protect its fishing stocks as well.

 

I thought you lived in Germany? Do you want free movement rights within Europe or not?

 

 

Being outside the "political" europe does not restrict free movement. You really should read up on this subject.....If you are interested.

 

I'm sorry but you're wrong. Leaving the EU would restrict free movement, unless negotiated otherwise. Of course, such an arrangement would have to be reciprocal.

 

Don't think free movement would be an issue at all.

[Renton 21404]

There is no reason why we couldnt just have the free trade bit.

 

Which party was it that signed up to the Maastricht Treaty?

 

 

It was a serious point not a party point scoring jobby

 

Well being serious then. What do you think the EU will say if we go to them and ask to pull out of everything except the free trade market? And also what do you think it would do for British business? I wouldn't end well.

 

Apparently the EU has free trade agreements with over 50 countries that are not part of the EU.

 

UKIP says on this.......

 

UKIP would set up a Commonwealth Free Trade Area (CFTA). Given the extraordinary economic power of the Commonwealth, such a bloc would be a global economic sensation. It could also interlock with other trade blocs to enhance global trade and prosperity. UKIP would retain friendly and profitable trade relationships with EU countries after withdrawal. UKIP would sign a UK-EU Free Trade deal, similar to the free trade deals the EU has with over 50 other non-EU countries but as its largest trading partner.

 

Have they asked the other Commonwealth countries about this? Why on Earth would we want to increase trade with a heterogenous mix of countries that are thousands of miles away based purely on historical reasons. And at the same time cut us off from our Geographical neighbours - the UK-EU Free Trade deal is no replacement for the benefits we get as part of the single market. Once again, why don't you think the tories embrace this if it were remotely feasible - don't you agree it's a vote winner?

 

Trusting UKIP to make policies on Europe is a bit like asking a paedophile to reform child protection laws.

 

 

Why not try thinking for yourself rather than simply repeating years of what you've heard?

 

Can you explain this sentence?

 

the UK-EU Free Trade deal is no replacement for the benefits we get as part of the single market.

 

Neither of us are economists, so no, off the top of my head I couldn't list the differences, but they are different, otherwise this wouldn't be an issue. I actually found this wiki article on the European Union, and its subarticles, very enlightening (increasingly I'm growing to respect wiki as a good source of reliable information, better than newspaper articles or political manifestos anyway). It seems to me that it would be hugely detrimental to effectively go it alone, an opinion which is almost universal amongst anlaysts and mainstream politicians - including those from your party.

 

At the end of the day the political parties all agree on keeping the status quo (except the loonys). For largely idealogical reasons, I'd like us to ultimately be in the euro, and I suspect you'd like us out of the it altogether. Fair enough, neither of us will get what we want so we live with the compromise.

[Renton 21404]

From the Telegraph.....

 

 

There is no question that Britain could remain in the market but not the EU’s political structures: several other countries are doing precisely this. Norway is a member of the European Economic Area, which guarantees its participation in the so called “Four Freedoms” of the single market (free movement of goods, services, people and capital). Switzerland has an even better deal, regulating its relations with the EU through a series of sector-specific bilateral accords. Closer to home, the Channel Islands participate in the common market without having joined the EU. Even Tony Blair, in an unguarded moment, admitted that Britain could take this option.

 

Norway gets to protect its fishing stocks as well.

 

I thought you lived in Germany? Do you want free movement rights within Europe or not?

 

 

Being outside the "political" europe does not restrict free movement. You really should read up on this subject.....If you are interested.

 

I'm sorry but you're wrong. Leaving the EU would restrict free movement, unless negotiated otherwise. Of course, such an arrangement would have to be reciprocal.

 

Don't think free movement would be an issue at all.

 

Because moving to live in the US or Australia is as easy to do as Germany? You haven't thought this through have you - have you actually noticed the seperate queues at the airport?

[Park Life 71]

Germany with their healthy exports don't actually need to be in the Euro and especially a strong Euro at that. Go figure.

[Park Life 71]

From the Telegraph.....

 

 

There is no question that Britain could remain in the market but not the EU’s political structures: several other countries are doing precisely this. Norway is a member of the European Economic Area, which guarantees its participation in the so called “Four Freedoms” of the single market (free movement of goods, services, people and capital). Switzerland has an even better deal, regulating its relations with the EU through a series of sector-specific bilateral accords. Closer to home, the Channel Islands participate in the common market without having joined the EU. Even Tony Blair, in an unguarded moment, admitted that Britain could take this option.

 

Norway gets to protect its fishing stocks as well.

 

I thought you lived in Germany? Do you want free movement rights within Europe or not?

 

 

Being outside the "political" europe does not restrict free movement. You really should read up on this subject.....If you are interested.

 

I'm sorry but you're wrong. Leaving the EU would restrict free movement, unless negotiated otherwise. Of course, such an arrangement would have to be reciprocal.

 

Don't think free movement would be an issue at all.

 

Because moving to live in the US or Australia is as easy to do as Germany? You haven't thought this through have you - have you actually noticed the seperate queues at the airport?

 

Ah the intricacies of the airport queue. Is this going to be the basis of your argument for staying in a bancrupt over regulated and under performing Euro zone with a bunch of relaxed meditarraniean types stealing the food out of your kids mouths?? Is it!!! Well?

[Renton 21404]

Ah the intricacies of the airport queue. Is this going to be the basis of your argument for staying in a bancrupt over regulated and under performing Euro zone with a bunch of relaxed meditarraniean types stealing the food out of your kids mouths?? Is it!!! Well?

 

 

You'd have to make a choice whether to join the master race or come back to Brittania's bussom.

[Park Life 71]

Ah the intricacies of the airport queue. Is this going to be the basis of your argument for staying in a bancrupt over regulated and under performing Euro zone with a bunch of relaxed meditarraniean types stealing the food out of your kids mouths?? Is it!!! Well?

 

 

You'd have to make a choice whether to join the master race or come back to Brittania's bussom.

 

[ewerk 30385]

Don't think free movement would be an issue at all.

 

The only issue I can see would be whether we negotiate with countries on an individual basis or with the EU as a whole. If it was the EU as a whole then we'd still have the same situation with EU immigration as we currently do.

[ChezGiven 0]

Germany with their healthy exports don't actually need to be in the Euro and especially a strong Euro at that. Go figure.

 

Their continued participation in the great project is just a form of self-discipline. They need to control the urge to invade countries dressed up in S&M gear, this way has worked for half a century.

[Craig 6682]

There was speculation yesterday that The Sun had offered Mrs Duffy £50,000, or even £75,000 for her story. It is more probable that The Sun's offer was in the range of £25,000 to £30,000 – which must still have sounded like riches to a pensioner who has worked all her life on relatively modest wages. But Mrs Duffy turned it down. Reputedly, The Sun, which has been campaigning aggressively since last October for a Conservative victory, wanted her to attack Gordon Brown in unrestrained language and declare her support for David Cameron but, after a lifetime's allegiance to the Labour Party, she would not do it.

 

Another rumour is that Andy Coulson, the former News of the World editor who is David Cameron's link with the Murdoch empire, contacted Rebekah Brooks, chief executive of Murdoch's company, News International, to say that it would not help the Tory cause if The Sun pushed its suit too hard. Coulson's reasoning was that Labour was in such a mess after Gordon Brown's gaffe that it would pay to leave them dangling in the wind rather than give them a pretext for claiming that Mrs Duffy was party to a Tory-orchestrated media conspiracy.

 

Even without the involvement of The Sun, the presence of a man from Bell Pottinger set off conspiracy theories. The agency was founded in 1987 by Tim Bell, Margaret Thatcher's advertising guru, who advised her through the victorious 1979 election campaign. The chairman of Bell Pottinger Public Affairs, Peter Bingle, is a Tory activist who wrote a jubilant blog yesterday, jokily suggesting: "There is a strong case for giving Gillian Duffy a peerage. She has revealed the true Gordon Brown."

 

 

She turned down the money.

Nice to hear. Makes Brown seem even more of a prick for having a pop at her like.

 

Aye, well done Mrs Duffy for keeping her integrity. I don't think Brown was being malicious but he must feel like a complete tit over this mess.

 

Turned down the Sun but sold it instead to the Mail on Sunday by all accounts. All will be revealed on Sunday morning I guess.

[Christmas Tree 4711]

From the Telegraph.....

 

 

There is no question that Britain could remain in the market but not the EU’s political structures: several other countries are doing precisely this. Norway is a member of the European Economic Area, which guarantees its participation in the so called “Four Freedoms” of the single market (free movement of goods, services, people and capital). Switzerland has an even better deal, regulating its relations with the EU through a series of sector-specific bilateral accords. Closer to home, the Channel Islands participate in the common market without having joined the EU. Even Tony Blair, in an unguarded moment, admitted that Britain could take this option.

 

Norway gets to protect its fishing stocks as well.

 

I thought you lived in Germany? Do you want free movement rights within Europe or not?

 

 

Being outside the "political" europe does not restrict free movement. You really should read up on this subject.....If you are interested.

 

I'm sorry but you're wrong. Leaving the EU would restrict free movement, unless negotiated otherwise. Of course, such an arrangement would have to be reciprocal.

 

 

Not sure how you arrive at that statement.

 

Dont Norway and Sweden have total free movement of people and are part of the European free trade agreement.

[Christmas Tree 4711]

There is no reason why we couldnt just have the free trade bit.

 

Which party was it that signed up to the Maastricht Treaty?

 

 

It was a serious point not a party point scoring jobby

 

Well being serious then. What do you think the EU will say if we go to them and ask to pull out of everything except the free trade market? And also what do you think it would do for British business? I wouldn't end well.

 

Apparently the EU has free trade agreements with over 50 countries that are not part of the EU.

 

UKIP says on this.......

 

UKIP would set up a Commonwealth Free Trade Area (CFTA). Given the extraordinary economic power of the Commonwealth, such a bloc would be a global economic sensation. It could also interlock with other trade blocs to enhance global trade and prosperity. UKIP would retain friendly and profitable trade relationships with EU countries after withdrawal. UKIP would sign a UK-EU Free Trade deal, similar to the free trade deals the EU has with over 50 other non-EU countries but as its largest trading partner.

 

Have they asked the other Commonwealth countries about this? Why on Earth would we want to increase trade with a heterogenous mix of countries that are thousands of miles away based purely on historical reasons. And at the same time cut us off from our Geographical neighbours - the UK-EU Free Trade deal is no replacement for the benefits we get as part of the single market. Once again, why don't you think the tories embrace this if it were remotely feasible - don't you agree it's a vote winner?

 

Trusting UKIP to make policies on Europe is a bit like asking a paedophile to reform child protection laws.

 

 

Why not try thinking for yourself rather than simply repeating years of what you've heard?

 

Can you explain this sentence?

 

the UK-EU Free Trade deal is no replacement for the benefits we get as part of the single market.

 

Neither of us are economists, so no, off the top of my head I couldn't list the differences, but they are different, otherwise this wouldn't be an issue. I actually found this wiki article on the European Union, and its subarticles, very enlightening (increasingly I'm growing to respect wiki as a good source of reliable information, better than newspaper articles or political manifestos anyway). It seems to me that it would be hugely detrimental to effectively go it alone, an opinion which is almost universal amongst anlaysts and mainstream politicians - including those from your party.

 

At the end of the day the political parties all agree on keeping the status quo (except the loonys). For largely idealogical reasons, I'd like us to ultimately be in the euro, and I suspect you'd like us out of the it altogether. Fair enough, neither of us will get what we want so we live with the compromise.

 

 

To be honest im not euro sceptic and like you have really not given it much thought.

 

However having given it some thought today, i seem to be struggling to find a list of benefits for staying v going, particularly given the Norway and Sweden stances.

 

I guess im coming at it from why do we need ANOTHER parliament to make up police and pass laws. As it stands we have less than 10% representation within that parliament anyway.

 

Why do we / you feel a bunch of germans / italians / french etc can make better laws for us than our own politicians.

 

If you do then doesnt that point to a problem with our system.

[Guest alex]

There was speculation yesterday that The Sun had offered Mrs Duffy £50,000, or even £75,000 for her story. It is more probable that The Sun's offer was in the range of £25,000 to £30,000 – which must still have sounded like riches to a pensioner who has worked all her life on relatively modest wages. But Mrs Duffy turned it down. Reputedly, The Sun, which has been campaigning aggressively since last October for a Conservative victory, wanted her to attack Gordon Brown in unrestrained language and declare her support for David Cameron but, after a lifetime's allegiance to the Labour Party, she would not do it.

 

Another rumour is that Andy Coulson, the former News of the World editor who is David Cameron's link with the Murdoch empire, contacted Rebekah Brooks, chief executive of Murdoch's company, News International, to say that it would not help the Tory cause if The Sun pushed its suit too hard. Coulson's reasoning was that Labour was in such a mess after Gordon Brown's gaffe that it would pay to leave them dangling in the wind rather than give them a pretext for claiming that Mrs Duffy was party to a Tory-orchestrated media conspiracy.

 

Even without the involvement of The Sun, the presence of a man from Bell Pottinger set off conspiracy theories. The agency was founded in 1987 by Tim Bell, Margaret Thatcher's advertising guru, who advised her through the victorious 1979 election campaign. The chairman of Bell Pottinger Public Affairs, Peter Bingle, is a Tory activist who wrote a jubilant blog yesterday, jokily suggesting: "There is a strong case for giving Gillian Duffy a peerage. She has revealed the true Gordon Brown."

 

 

She turned down the money.

Nice to hear. Makes Brown seem even more of a prick for having a pop at her like.

 

Aye, well done Mrs Duffy for keeping her integrity. I don't think Brown was being malicious but he must feel like a complete tit over this mess.

 

Turned down the Sun but sold it instead to the Mail on Sunday by all accounts. All will be revealed on Sunday morning I guess.

Tbf, I don't blame her and would still respect her if it's a case of telling the truth in the MoS as opposed to being told what to say by The Sun.

[Christmas Tree 4711]

Don't think free movement would be an issue at all.

 

The only issue I can see would be whether we negotiate with countries on an individual basis or with the EU as a whole. If it was the EU as a whole then we'd still have the same situation with EU immigration as we currently do.

 

 

The problem we have is that Labour got its figures wrong.

 

Virtually every other country saw the risk and limited numbers.....Not Us tho

[Guest alex]

Don't think free movement would be an issue at all.

 

The only issue I can see would be whether we negotiate with countries on an individual basis or with the EU as a whole. If it was the EU as a whole then we'd still have the same situation with EU immigration as we currently do.

 

 

The problem we have is that Labour got its figures wrong.

 

Virtually every other country saw the risk and limited numbers.....Not Us tho

I think the limits were only for a limited time (which may have now expired anyway) though.

[Christmas Tree 4711]

Don't think free movement would be an issue at all.

 

The only issue I can see would be whether we negotiate with countries on an individual basis or with the EU as a whole. If it was the EU as a whole then we'd still have the same situation with EU immigration as we currently do.

 

 

The problem we have is that Labour got its figures wrong.

 

Virtually every other country saw the risk and limited numbers.....Not Us tho

I think the limits were only for a limited time (which may have now expired anyway) though.

 

 

They were, but while all the others had the no vacancy signs up, the "rush" came here instead. This not only caused a great deal of problems for a lot of communities (granted we see little of it up here), but also allowed made immigration a big political problem when it need not have been.

 

By the time the otheres took down their full up signs, the damage was done.

[NJS 4375]

To be honest im not euro sceptic and like you have really not given it much thought.

 

However having given it some thought today, i seem to be struggling to find a list of benefits for staying v going, particularly given the Norway and Sweden stances.

 

I guess im coming at it from why do we need ANOTHER parliament to make up police and pass laws. As it stands we have less than 10% representation within that parliament anyway.

 

Why do we / you feel a bunch of germans / italians / french etc can make better laws for us than our own politicians.

 

If you do then doesnt that point to a problem with our system.

 

I've always been for the concepts of the EU because I feel in the next few years we need to be in an entity that big to compete with China and India as well as the "old" powers. I think an individual country would be too overshadowed.

 

I've also always thought the idea of a larger community with similar people (fuck off Parky) to be beneficial from a social point of view and I'f like to see the ties and exchanges between countries expanded.

[Christmas Tree 4711]

There was speculation yesterday that The Sun had offered Mrs Duffy £50,000, or even £75,000 for her story. It is more probable that The Sun's offer was in the range of £25,000 to £30,000 – which must still have sounded like riches to a pensioner who has worked all her life on relatively modest wages. But Mrs Duffy turned it down. Reputedly, The Sun, which has been campaigning aggressively since last October for a Conservative victory, wanted her to attack Gordon Brown in unrestrained language and declare her support for David Cameron but, after a lifetime's allegiance to the Labour Party, she would not do it.

 

Another rumour is that Andy Coulson, the former News of the World editor who is David Cameron's link with the Murdoch empire, contacted Rebekah Brooks, chief executive of Murdoch's company, News International, to say that it would not help the Tory cause if The Sun pushed its suit too hard. Coulson's reasoning was that Labour was in such a mess after Gordon Brown's gaffe that it would pay to leave them dangling in the wind rather than give them a pretext for claiming that Mrs Duffy was party to a Tory-orchestrated media conspiracy.

 

Even without the involvement of The Sun, the presence of a man from Bell Pottinger set off conspiracy theories. The agency was founded in 1987 by Tim Bell, Margaret Thatcher's advertising guru, who advised her through the victorious 1979 election campaign. The chairman of Bell Pottinger Public Affairs, Peter Bingle, is a Tory activist who wrote a jubilant blog yesterday, jokily suggesting: "There is a strong case for giving Gillian Duffy a peerage. She has revealed the true Gordon Brown."

 

 

She turned down the money.

Nice to hear. Makes Brown seem even more of a prick for having a pop at her like.

 

Aye, well done Mrs Duffy for keeping her integrity. I don't think Brown was being malicious but he must feel like a complete tit over this mess.

 

Turned down the Sun but sold it instead to the Mail on Sunday by all accounts. All will be revealed on Sunday morning I guess.

 

 

Is it true that a member of the labour party allegedly offered the dear a substantial amount of money to do the photo shoot with Brown that she refused.

[The Fish 10793]

Don't think free movement would be an issue at all.

 

The only issue I can see would be whether we negotiate with countries on an individual basis or with the EU as a whole. If it was the EU as a whole then we'd still have the same situation with EU immigration as we currently do.

 

 

The problem we have is that Labour got its figures wrong.

 

Virtually every other country saw the risk and limited numbers.....Not Us tho

I think the limits were only for a limited time (which may have now expired anyway) though.

 

 

They were, but while all the others had the no vacancy signs up, the "rush" came here instead. This not only caused a great deal of problems for a lot of communities (granted we see little of it up here), but also allowed made immigration a big political problem when it need not have been.

 

By the time the otheres took down their full up signs, the damage was done.

 

Surely the "rush" was more to do with the perceived inclusiveness of the UK and that many immigrants speak (pigeon) English already.

[Christmas Tree 4711]

To be honest im not euro sceptic and like you have really not given it much thought.

 

However having given it some thought today, i seem to be struggling to find a list of benefits for staying v going, particularly given the Norway and Sweden stances.

 

I guess im coming at it from why do we need ANOTHER parliament to make up police and pass laws. As it stands we have less than 10% representation within that parliament anyway.

 

Why do we / you feel a bunch of germans / italians / french etc can make better laws for us than our own politicians.

 

If you do then doesnt that point to a problem with our system.

 

I've always been for the concepts of the EU because I feel in the next few years we need to be in an entity that big to compete with China and India as well as the "old" powers. I think an individual country would be too overshadowed.

 

I've also always thought the idea of a larger community with similar people (fuck off Parky) to be beneficial from a social point of view and I'f like to see the ties and exchanges between countries expanded.

 

 

That fights been and gone....we lost

[Christmas Tree 4711]

Don't think free movement would be an issue at all.

 

The only issue I can see would be whether we negotiate with countries on an individual basis or with the EU as a whole. If it was the EU as a whole then we'd still have the same situation with EU immigration as we currently do.

 

 

The problem we have is that Labour got its figures wrong.

 

Virtually every other country saw the risk and limited numbers.....Not Us tho

I think the limits were only for a limited time (which may have now expired anyway) though.

 

 

They were, but while all the others had the no vacancy signs up, the "rush" came here instead. This not only caused a great deal of problems for a lot of communities (granted we see little of it up here), but also allowed made immigration a big political problem when it need not have been.

 

By the time the otheres took down their full up signs, the damage was done.

 

Surely the "rush" was more to do with the perceived inclusiveness of the UK and that many immigrants speak (pigeon) English already.

 

 

Yes, but had we done as our fellow europeans had done....They wouldnt have got in.

[Guest alex]

Don't think free movement would be an issue at all.

 

The only issue I can see would be whether we negotiate with countries on an individual basis or with the EU as a whole. If it was the EU as a whole then we'd still have the same situation with EU immigration as we currently do.

 

 

The problem we have is that Labour got its figures wrong.

 

Virtually every other country saw the risk and limited numbers.....Not Us tho

I think the limits were only for a limited time (which may have now expired anyway) though.

 

 

They were, but while all the others had the no vacancy signs up, the "rush" came here instead. This not only caused a great deal of problems for a lot of communities (granted we see little of it up here), but also allowed made immigration a big political problem when it need not have been.

 

By the time the otheres took down their full up signs, the damage was done.

Maybe, or perhaps it would've just delayed the inevitable.

[Christmas Tree 4711]

Don't think free movement would be an issue at all.

 

The only issue I can see would be whether we negotiate with countries on an individual basis or with the EU as a whole. If it was the EU as a whole then we'd still have the same situation with EU immigration as we currently do.

 

 

The problem we have is that Labour got its figures wrong.

 

Virtually every other country saw the risk and limited numbers.....Not Us tho

I think the limits were only for a limited time (which may have now expired anyway) though.

 

 

They were, but while all the others had the no vacancy signs up, the "rush" came here instead. This not only caused a great deal of problems for a lot of communities (granted we see little of it up here), but also allowed made immigration a big political problem when it need not have been.

 

By the time the otheres took down their full up signs, the damage was done.

 

Surely the "rush" was more to do with the perceived inclusiveness of the UK and that many immigrants speak (pigeon) English already.

 

 

Crap photo of the old man by the way.

 

Cant have TT not grinning....