General Election 2010

[Christmas Tree 4711]

I don't really understand what benefit we get from being in the EU.

 

Why can't we just sign up for the free trade bit?

 

Seems a whole lot of money in for very little out.

 

So you'd want the benefits of Europe without actually contributing to the club. I see.

 

What has the EU ever done for us? - 50 things that are to our advantage - from the Independent. There's a reason even the tories don't want us out of the EU, the benefits far offset the costs.

 

 

First of all I did not say I wanted the benefits of Europe, my question was more WHAT ARE the benefits of Europe. As for your list I got as far as number 10 and couldnt really see anything on there that is either relevant to today or we couldnt have done without being part of the EU.

 

As for number 3 on the list.....

 

Once poor countries like Ireland, Greece and Portugal prospering

 

Are you also saying Labour governments need french people to make us make our beaches cleaner?????

 

There is no reason why we couldnt just have the free trade bit.

 

I guess like me, you also have little understanding of the real day to day benefits of being in rather than being out. Its not a particular slight on you btw, its just a fact of we do take a lotta shit for granted without stopping to think about it.

[ewerk 30385]

There is no reason why we couldnt just have the free trade bit.

 

Which party was it that signed up to the Maastricht Treaty?

[Park Life 71]

I don't really understand what benefit we get from being in the EU.

 

Why can't we just sign up for the free trade bit?

 

Seems a whole lot of money in for very little out.

 

So you'd want the benefits of Europe without actually contributing to the club. I see.

 

What has the EU ever done for us? - 50 things that are to our advantage - from the Independent. There's a reason even the tories don't want us out of the EU, the benefits far offset the costs.

 

 

First of all I did not say I wanted the benefits of Europe, my question was more WHAT ARE the benefits of Europe. As for your list I got as far as number 10 and couldnt really see anything on there that is either relevant to today or we couldnt have done without being part of the EU.

 

As for number 3 on the list.....

 

Once poor countries like Ireland, Greece and Portugal prospering

 

Are you also saying Labour governments need french people to make us make our beaches cleaner?????

 

There is no reason why we couldnt just have the free trade bit.

 

I guess like me, you also have little understanding of the real day to day benefits of being in rather than being out. Its not a particular slight on you btw, its just a fact of we do take a lotta shit for granted without stopping to think about it.

 

I'd get out. But that's another thread.

[spongebob toonpants 3958]

Interesting that the bloke with the bizzarre backing of Ashley also is the one backing Cameron. The rich must know best and be obeyed eh CT?

[Happy Face 29]

The closing statements said it all to me. Cameron's was full of wishy washy flim flam the uninformed voter will like the sound of...even though they're among the poorest people he'll fuck over worst of all...

 

Thank you. I'm standing here for a very simple reason, that I love this country, and I think we can do even better in the years ahead. We can go on, solve our problems and do great things. But we need a government with the right values. We need a government that backs families and understands that the family is the most important thing in our society. We need a government that backs work, and people who try to do the right thing. We need a government that always understands that keeping us safe and secure is the most important thing of all. But there's something else you need to know about me. I believe the test of a good and strong society is how we look after the most vulnerable, the most frail and the poorest. That's true in good times, but it's even more true in difficult times. And there will be difficult decisions, but I want to lead us through those to better times ahead. I think I've got a great team behind me. I think we can do great things in this country. If you vote Labour, you'll get more of the same. If you vote Liberal, as we've seen tonight, it's just uncertainty. If you vote Conservative on Thursday, you can have a new, fresh government, making a clean break, and taking our country in a new direction, and bringing the change we need.

 

I'm not sure which of those two most important things is most important either.

 

Brown's statement said little about what he would do too, but at least he mentioned some actual policies, those of the other two which they cannot defend...

 

These debates are the answer to people who say that politics doesn't matter. I want to thank everybody who's been involved in these debates over the last few weeks. They show that there are big causes we can fight for. They also show that big differences exist between the parties. I know that if things stay where they are, perhaps in eight days' time, David Cameron, perhaps supported by Nick Clegg, would be in office. But I've had the duty of telling you this evening that while we have policies for the future, the Conservatives would put the recovery immediately at risk with an emergency budget. I've asked David and Nick questions all evening. David has not been able to confirm, but it is the case that inheritance tax cuts will go to the richest

people in the country. I believe he's planning to cut the Schools Budget, and he hasn't denied it. I believe also that child tax credits would be cut by both parties if they came into a coalition. I believe too that policing would be at risk from a Conservative government, because they have not said they would match us on policing either. And the health service guarantees that we have that gives every cancer patient the right to see a specialist within two weeks would be scrapped by the Conservative Government if they came into power. I don't like having to do this, but I have to tell you that things are too important to be left to risky policies under these two people. They are not ready for government, because they have not thought through their policies. We are desperate to get this country through the recession and into the recovery, and that is what I intend to continue to do. But it's up to the people to decide, and it's your decision.

 

Which is understandable tbh. He's the defending champion, he doesn't have to win, he just has to avoid losing.

[Renton 21404]

I don't really understand what benefit we get from being in the EU.

 

Why can't we just sign up for the free trade bit?

 

Seems a whole lot of money in for very little out.

 

So you'd want the benefits of Europe without actually contributing to the club. I see.

 

What has the EU ever done for us? - 50 things that are to our advantage - from the Independent. There's a reason even the tories don't want us out of the EU, the benefits far offset the costs.

 

 

First of all I did not say I wanted the benefits of Europe, my question was more WHAT ARE the benefits of Europe. As for your list I got as far as number 10 and couldnt really see anything on there that is either relevant to today or we couldnt have done without being part of the EU.

 

As for number 3 on the list.....

 

Once poor countries like Ireland, Greece and Portugal prospering

 

Are you also saying Labour governments need french people to make us make our beaches cleaner?????

 

There is no reason why we couldnt just have the free trade bit.

 

I guess like me, you also have little understanding of the real day to day benefits of being in rather than being out. Its not a particular slight on you btw, its just a fact of we do take a lotta shit for granted without stopping to think about it.

 

You seem to want the benefits of the single market without actually being in the single market? How does that work then? The Independent article was a list of extra benefits above and beyond being part of the single market (with some tongue in cheek examples - see point 50). You can't just opt in for the good bits and opt out the bits you don't like. As one of the richest countries in the EU, we are expected to be net contibutors, and the EU has also redirected money to the provinces of the UK, which is needed unfortunately. The money we pay to be in the EU after Thatcher's rebate (one good thing she did) is peanuts compared to being alone in Europe. As I said, even Mr Cameron recognises that - I'm sure there are enough euroskeptics like yourself to make withdrawal from the EU a vote winner if it were remotely feasible.

[Park Life 71]

They're both in the pockets of the banks and the EU anyway, apart from some slight differances it won't really matter who gets in. LibDems will knock id cards on he head though, so I'd vote for them depending on the area you live in. I really don't trust Cameron, he comes across as an airhead.

[Christmas Tree 4711]

There is no reason why we couldnt just have the free trade bit.

 

Which party was it that signed up to the Maastricht Treaty?

 

 

It was a serious point not a party point scoring jobby

[Christmas Tree 4711]

Interesting that the bloke with the bizzarre backing of Ashley also is the one backing Cameron. The rich must know best and be obeyed eh CT?

 

 

Well the majority of the country backed the tories for 3 long terms, even after the miners strike. Bastard this democracy lark for the dyed in the wool socialists.

[Christmas Tree 4711]

I don't really understand what benefit we get from being in the EU.

 

Why can't we just sign up for the free trade bit?

 

Seems a whole lot of money in for very little out.

 

So you'd want the benefits of Europe without actually contributing to the club. I see.

 

What has the EU ever done for us? - 50 things that are to our advantage - from the Independent. There's a reason even the tories don't want us out of the EU, the benefits far offset the costs.

 

 

First of all I did not say I wanted the benefits of Europe, my question was more WHAT ARE the benefits of Europe. As for your list I got as far as number 10 and couldnt really see anything on there that is either relevant to today or we couldnt have done without being part of the EU.

 

As for number 3 on the list.....

 

Once poor countries like Ireland, Greece and Portugal prospering

 

Are you also saying Labour governments need french people to make us make our beaches cleaner?????

 

There is no reason why we couldnt just have the free trade bit.

 

I guess like me, you also have little understanding of the real day to day benefits of being in rather than being out. Its not a particular slight on you btw, its just a fact of we do take a lotta shit for granted without stopping to think about it.

 

You seem to want the benefits of the single market without actually being in the single market? How does that work then? The Independent article was a list of extra benefits above and beyond being part of the single market (with some tongue in cheek examples - see point 50). You can't just opt in for the good bits and opt out the bits you don't like. As one of the richest countries in the EU, we are expected to be net contibutors, and the EU has also redirected money to the provinces of the UK, which is needed unfortunately. The money we pay to be in the EU after Thatcher's rebate (one good thing she did) is peanuts compared to being alone in Europe. As I said, even Mr Cameron recognises that - I'm sure there are enough euroskeptics like yourself to make withdrawal from the EU a vote winner if it were remotely feasible.

 

 

Without being in the EU.

 

There is a big difference which it seems you dont understand

[Renton 21404]

I don't really understand what benefit we get from being in the EU.

 

Why can't we just sign up for the free trade bit?

 

Seems a whole lot of money in for very little out.

 

So you'd want the benefits of Europe without actually contributing to the club. I see.

 

What has the EU ever done for us? - 50 things that are to our advantage - from the Independent. There's a reason even the tories don't want us out of the EU, the benefits far offset the costs.

 

 

First of all I did not say I wanted the benefits of Europe, my question was more WHAT ARE the benefits of Europe. As for your list I got as far as number 10 and couldnt really see anything on there that is either relevant to today or we couldnt have done without being part of the EU.

 

As for number 3 on the list.....

 

Once poor countries like Ireland, Greece and Portugal prospering

 

Are you also saying Labour governments need french people to make us make our beaches cleaner?????

 

There is no reason why we couldnt just have the free trade bit.

 

I guess like me, you also have little understanding of the real day to day benefits of being in rather than being out. Its not a particular slight on you btw, its just a fact of we do take a lotta shit for granted without stopping to think about it.

 

You seem to want the benefits of the single market without actually being in the single market? How does that work then? The Independent article was a list of extra benefits above and beyond being part of the single market (with some tongue in cheek examples - see point 50). You can't just opt in for the good bits and opt out the bits you don't like. As one of the richest countries in the EU, we are expected to be net contibutors, and the EU has also redirected money to the provinces of the UK, which is needed unfortunately. The money we pay to be in the EU after Thatcher's rebate (one good thing she did) is peanuts compared to being alone in Europe. As I said, even Mr Cameron recognises that - I'm sure there are enough euroskeptics like yourself to make withdrawal from the EU a vote winner if it were remotely feasible.

 

 

Without being in the EU.

 

There is a big difference which it seems you dont understand

 

No, I don't understand. The EU operates as a single trading block. How can you be part of it if, well, you're not part of it? Please enlighten me.

[Park Life 71]

CHARLIE BOOKER

 

I half expected the loser to hand his shoes to Dimbleby at the end before jetting off into the sky

 

If the leadership debates were supermarkets – which they're not – ITV's would be Tesco, Sky's would be Morrisons, and the BBC's offering would be Waitrose. The ITV debate felt like a 1990s gameshow whose rules required Alastair Stewart to bellow "Mr Clegg!", "Mr Brown!" or "Mr Cameron!" every thirty seconds; the Sky studio was a poky black cave cluttered with discarded British Airways tail fins and dwarfed by an immense Sky logo. With its mix of cavernous space and high-tech backdrops, the BBC debate resembled a cross between Songs of Praise and current Saturday night talent-show splurge Over the Rainbow: I half expected the loser to hand his shoes to Dimbleby at the end before jetting off into the sky on a rocket-powered podium.

 

The chief topic was the economy, a subject upon which I have such a poor grasp that from my ignorant perspective all three men may as well have been debating the best way to kidnap a space wraith. Cameron proposed 'efficiency savings' which seemed to boil down to a war on unnecessary leaflets; Brown boomed that this would shrink the economy by £6bn and risk a double-dip recession. Clegg didn't care what happened as long as it was fair. He proposed some kind of cross-party economic fairness committee which, as secret fellowships go, sounds about as much fun as a cardboard-licking party.

 

Clegg was big on fairness generally. Fairness and difference. He used so many distancing tactics – references to "these two", phrases like "there they go again", constant calls to "get beyond political point-scoring" – he may as well have thrown in a "hark at these arseholes" at the end for good measure. It's a tactic that largely works: he sometimes came across as a slightly exasperated translator sadly explaining to his fellow earthmen in the audience that these two visiting Gallifreyan dignitaries were well-meaning but essentially wrong.

 

Brown's ears are amazing. I think they're made out of sausages. And he still can't smile properly, which is hardly surprisinggiven his ongoing luck allergy. Following the overblown 'bigotgate' media piss-fight, which saw him force-fed fistfuls of shame, it was vaguely impressive to see him standing at a podium instead of screaming on a ledge. Just as Cameron likes to shoehorn the "change" meme into every sentence (or rather did, before Cleggmania flared up), so Brown mentioned "the same old Conservative Party" so many times he began to sound like a novelty anti-Tory talking keyring.

 

According to some polls, Cameron won, or at the very least tied with Clegg. Which is odd, because to my biased eyes, he looked hilariously worried whenever the others were talking. He often wore a face like the Fat Controller trying to wee through a Hula Hoop without splashing the sides, in fact. Perhaps that's just the expression he pulls when he's concentrating, in which case it's fair to say he'd be the first prime minister in history who could look inadvertently funny while pushing the nuclear button."

[Guest alex]

Interesting that the bloke with the bizzarre backing of Ashley also is the one backing Cameron. The rich must know best and be obeyed eh CT?

 

 

Well the majority of the country backed the tories for 3 long terms, even after the miners strike. Bastard this democracy lark for the dyed in the wool socialists.

They never got 50% in a General Election, did they?

[Meenzer 15448]

I was going to highlight individual :lol:s, but there are far too many.

[AgentAxeman 174]

Meh! bunch of "lie through me teeth" twats imo.

 

all of em'

 

i reiterate, TWATS!!

[Renton 21404]

Interesting that the bloke with the bizzarre backing of Ashley also is the one backing Cameron. The rich must know best and be obeyed eh CT?

 

 

Well the majority of the country backed the tories for 3 long terms, even after the miners strike. Bastard this democracy lark for the dyed in the wool socialists.

They never got 50% in a General Election, did they?

 

Or hardly any support in the North, Scotland, or Wales.

[Guest alex]

Interesting that the bloke with the bizzarre backing of Ashley also is the one backing Cameron. The rich must know best and be obeyed eh CT?

 

 

Well the majority of the country backed the tories for 3 long terms, even after the miners strike. Bastard this democracy lark for the dyed in the wool socialists.

They never got 50% in a General Election, did they?

 

Or hardly any support in the North, Scotland, or Wales.

That's the crux of it for me because the result of that is they don't give a fuck about those places.

[AgentAxeman 174]

Interesting that the bloke with the bizzarre backing of Ashley also is the one backing Cameron. The rich must know best and be obeyed eh CT?

 

 

Well the majority of the country backed the tories for 3 long terms, even after the miners strike. Bastard this democracy lark for the dyed in the wool socialists.

They never got 50% in a General Election, did they?

 

Or hardly any support in the North, Scotland, or Wales.

 

 

did it make any difference to the end result tho?

[NJS 4375]

Interesting that the bloke with the bizzarre backing of Ashley also is the one backing Cameron. The rich must know best and be obeyed eh CT?

 

 

Well the majority of the country backed the tories for 3 long terms, even after the miners strike. Bastard this democracy lark for the dyed in the wool socialists.

They never got 50% in a General Election, did they?

 

Or hardly any support in the North, Scotland, or Wales.

 

This is why I'm a supporter of regional government - it seems to have worked out okay for the Scots an the Welsh and I can't understand why people in the NE rejected it so out of hand. There was a lot of lies about an extra tier when it was actually a replacement level with more powers but still.

 

Of course the converse to the Tories not caring about the regions is Labour taking them for granted which I accept to a degree but I think having a body of people specifically interested in the region beyond the NEDC would work.

[Park Life 71]

There was speculation yesterday that The Sun had offered Mrs Duffy £50,000, or even £75,000 for her story. It is more probable that The Sun's offer was in the range of £25,000 to £30,000 – which must still have sounded like riches to a pensioner who has worked all her life on relatively modest wages. But Mrs Duffy turned it down. Reputedly, The Sun, which has been campaigning aggressively since last October for a Conservative victory, wanted her to attack Gordon Brown in unrestrained language and declare her support for David Cameron but, after a lifetime's allegiance to the Labour Party, she would not do it.

 

Another rumour is that Andy Coulson, the former News of the World editor who is David Cameron's link with the Murdoch empire, contacted Rebekah Brooks, chief executive of Murdoch's company, News International, to say that it would not help the Tory cause if The Sun pushed its suit too hard. Coulson's reasoning was that Labour was in such a mess after Gordon Brown's gaffe that it would pay to leave them dangling in the wind rather than give them a pretext for claiming that Mrs Duffy was party to a Tory-orchestrated media conspiracy.

 

Even without the involvement of The Sun, the presence of a man from Bell Pottinger set off conspiracy theories. The agency was founded in 1987 by Tim Bell, Margaret Thatcher's advertising guru, who advised her through the victorious 1979 election campaign. The chairman of Bell Pottinger Public Affairs, Peter Bingle, is a Tory activist who wrote a jubilant blog yesterday, jokily suggesting: "There is a strong case for giving Gillian Duffy a peerage. She has revealed the true Gordon Brown."

 

 

She turned down the money.

[Guest alex]

Interesting that the bloke with the bizzarre backing of Ashley also is the one backing Cameron. The rich must know best and be obeyed eh CT?

 

 

Well the majority of the country backed the tories for 3 long terms, even after the miners strike. Bastard this democracy lark for the dyed in the wool socialists.

They never got 50% in a General Election, did they?

 

Or hardly any support in the North, Scotland, or Wales.

 

This is why I'm a supporter of regional government - it seems to have worked out okay for the Scots an the Welsh and I can't understand why people in the NE rejected it so out of hand. There was a lot of lies about an extra tier when it was actually a replacement level with more powers but still.

 

Of course the converse to the Tories not caring about the regions is Labour taking them for granted which I accept to a degree but I think having a body of people specifically interested in the region beyond the NEDC would work.

Especially local councillors I find. Some of the 'think they've got a gravy train for life' Labour lot you get in the NE are right corrupt twats. Still better than Tories like

[ewerk 30385]

There is no reason why we couldnt just have the free trade bit.

 

Which party was it that signed up to the Maastricht Treaty?

 

 

It was a serious point not a party point scoring jobby

 

Well being serious then. What do you think the EU will say if we go to them and ask to pull out of everything except the free trade market? And also what do you think it would do for British business? I wouldn't end well.

[Guest alex]

There was speculation yesterday that The Sun had offered Mrs Duffy £50,000, or even £75,000 for her story. It is more probable that The Sun's offer was in the range of £25,000 to £30,000 – which must still have sounded like riches to a pensioner who has worked all her life on relatively modest wages. But Mrs Duffy turned it down. Reputedly, The Sun, which has been campaigning aggressively since last October for a Conservative victory, wanted her to attack Gordon Brown in unrestrained language and declare her support for David Cameron but, after a lifetime's allegiance to the Labour Party, she would not do it.

 

Another rumour is that Andy Coulson, the former News of the World editor who is David Cameron's link with the Murdoch empire, contacted Rebekah Brooks, chief executive of Murdoch's company, News International, to say that it would not help the Tory cause if The Sun pushed its suit too hard. Coulson's reasoning was that Labour was in such a mess after Gordon Brown's gaffe that it would pay to leave them dangling in the wind rather than give them a pretext for claiming that Mrs Duffy was party to a Tory-orchestrated media conspiracy.

 

Even without the involvement of The Sun, the presence of a man from Bell Pottinger set off conspiracy theories. The agency was founded in 1987 by Tim Bell, Margaret Thatcher's advertising guru, who advised her through the victorious 1979 election campaign. The chairman of Bell Pottinger Public Affairs, Peter Bingle, is a Tory activist who wrote a jubilant blog yesterday, jokily suggesting: "There is a strong case for giving Gillian Duffy a peerage. She has revealed the true Gordon Brown."

 

 

She turned down the money.

Nice to hear. Makes Brown seem even more of a prick for having a pop at her like.

[Renton 21404]

Interesting that the bloke with the bizzarre backing of Ashley also is the one backing Cameron. The rich must know best and be obeyed eh CT?

 

 

Well the majority of the country backed the tories for 3 long terms, even after the miners strike. Bastard this democracy lark for the dyed in the wool socialists.

They never got 50% in a General Election, did they?

 

Or hardly any support in the North, Scotland, or Wales.

 

This is why I'm a supporter of regional government - it seems to have worked out okay for the Scots an the Welsh and I can't understand why people in the NE rejected it so out of hand. There was a lot of lies about an extra tier when it was actually a replacement level with more powers but still.

 

Of course the converse to the Tories not caring about the regions is Labour taking them for granted which I accept to a degree but I think having a body of people specifically interested in the region beyond the NEDC would work.

 

Strangly enough I was thinking this myself this morning when there was some Welsh politician going on about getting more money for Wales. We have no one to represent us and its our own fault.

[Renton 21404]

There was speculation yesterday that The Sun had offered Mrs Duffy £50,000, or even £75,000 for her story. It is more probable that The Sun's offer was in the range of £25,000 to £30,000 – which must still have sounded like riches to a pensioner who has worked all her life on relatively modest wages. But Mrs Duffy turned it down. Reputedly, The Sun, which has been campaigning aggressively since last October for a Conservative victory, wanted her to attack Gordon Brown in unrestrained language and declare her support for David Cameron but, after a lifetime's allegiance to the Labour Party, she would not do it.

 

Another rumour is that Andy Coulson, the former News of the World editor who is David Cameron's link with the Murdoch empire, contacted Rebekah Brooks, chief executive of Murdoch's company, News International, to say that it would not help the Tory cause if The Sun pushed its suit too hard. Coulson's reasoning was that Labour was in such a mess after Gordon Brown's gaffe that it would pay to leave them dangling in the wind rather than give them a pretext for claiming that Mrs Duffy was party to a Tory-orchestrated media conspiracy.

 

Even without the involvement of The Sun, the presence of a man from Bell Pottinger set off conspiracy theories. The agency was founded in 1987 by Tim Bell, Margaret Thatcher's advertising guru, who advised her through the victorious 1979 election campaign. The chairman of Bell Pottinger Public Affairs, Peter Bingle, is a Tory activist who wrote a jubilant blog yesterday, jokily suggesting: "There is a strong case for giving Gillian Duffy a peerage. She has revealed the true Gordon Brown."

 

 

She turned down the money.

Nice to hear. Makes Brown seem even more of a prick for having a pop at her like.

 

Aye, well done Mrs Duffy for keeping her integrity. I don't think Brown was being malicious but he must feel like a complete tit over this mess.