General Election 2010

[Renton 22064]

What is the most important single issue for people on toontastic?

 

For me its the economy, as everything else depends on this. I think the tories ideas on this, and the fact they would have made virtually every wrong choice since the recession started, speaks volumes. I simply can't understand how anyone would want to risk Osbourne as the future Chancellor of Exchequer. Can the tories on here comment on this?

 

 

well, im not sure that they have made the wrong decisions as they have no power to implement them. however labour does, and lets face facts here, we're still in recession, our deficit is the worst in the developed world and we're moving out of said recession slower than every other rich country in the world.

 

looks to me like labour are the ones who've made the wrong decisions. just my opinion.

 

(so ive been told)

 

Our economy was particularly vulnerable to the global shit storm for many reasons which were difficult to predict without hindsight. I am sure had the tories been in power they would have also happily welcomed the banking sector in with open arms at least as much as New Labour did. But since the collapse of Lehmans etc, aren't most experts in broad agreement that Brown did the right thing and that Cameron's policies would have been disastrous?

 

Plus, many aspects of the recession haven't been as bad as feared so far (unemployment for example), probably because of Labour's intervention. And I also read a BBC article recently that stated that revised figures now show we have come out of recession quicker than the EU (who still have no growth at all apparently). But anyway, Osbourne ffs!

 

Oh aye, and is anyone really insane enough to think the tories will benefit the NHS or do you simply not care?

[Guest alex]

Cameron was calling for less regulation in the City not too long ago iirc.

[ewerk 31238]

oh and ewerk, you are quite correct. we are officially out of recession now but growth is much less than forecast ie. extremely weak.

 

i do apologise for my mistake

 

I don't know what figures you're looking at but the revised figures for growth in Q4 2009 show that we beat expectations.

 

Not to mention that our growth for this year is forecast to beat all G7 nations with the exception of Canada.

[Guest alex]

I suppose this is what happens when you take the Daily Mash, sorry Mail, at face value.

[Park Life 71]

What is the most important single issue for people on toontastic?

 

For me its the economy, as everything else depends on this. I think the tories ideas on this, and the fact they would have made virtually every wrong choice since the recession started, speaks volumes. I simply can't understand how anyone would want to risk Osbourne as the future Chancellor of Exchequer. Can the tories on here comment on this?

 

 

well, im not sure that they have made the wrong decisions as they have no power to implement them. however labour does, and lets face facts here, we're still in recession, our deficit is the worst in the developed world and we're moving out of said recession slower than every other rich country in the world.

 

looks to me like labour are the ones who've made the wrong decisions. just my opinion.

 

(so ive been told)

 

Our economy was particularly vulnerable to the global shit storm for many reasons which were difficult to predict without hindsight. I am sure had the tories been in power they would have also happily welcomed the banking sector in with open arms at least as much as New Labour did. But since the collapse of Lehmans etc, aren't most experts in broad agreement that Brown did the right thing and that Cameron's policies would have been disastrous?

 

Plus, many aspects of the recession haven't been as bad as feared so far (unemployment for example), probably because of Labour's intervention. And I also read a BBC article recently that stated that revised figures now show we have come out of recession quicker than the EU (who still have no growth at all apparently). But anyway, Osbourne ffs!

 

Oh aye, and is anyone really insane enough to think the tories will benefit the NHS or do you simply not care?

 

Frankly Labour performed a miracle...Cause it looked REAL bad at one point last year. The worst is still to come however.

[Christmas Tree 4866]

Same old Labour. Inherit a fantastic economy, throw money everywhere trying to make things better, leave the country broke. repeat to fade...

[Park Life 71]

Same old Labour. Inherit a fantastic economy, throw money everywhere trying to make things better, leave the country broke. repeat to fade...

 

Errr it was the bankers and financiers that left the country in the state it's in.

[Christmas Tree 4866]

Same old Labour. Inherit a fantastic economy, throw money everywhere trying to make things better, leave the country broke. repeat to fade...

 

Errr it was the bankers and financiers that left the country in the state it's in.

 

 

Who removed restrictions from the bankers

[Christmas Tree 4866]

And sold off the gold etc etc etc etc etc

[ewerk 31238]

Same old Labour. Inherit a fantastic economy, throw money everywhere trying to make things better, leave the country broke. repeat to fade...

 

Errr it was the bankers and financiers that left the country in the state it's in.

 

 

Who removed restrictions from the bankers

 

You mean who started financial de-regulation?

[Christmas Tree 4866]

Same old Labour. Inherit a fantastic economy, throw money everywhere trying to make things better, leave the country broke. repeat to fade...

 

Errr it was the bankers and financiers that left the country in the state it's in.

 

 

Who removed restrictions from the bankers

 

You mean who started financial de-regulation?

 

 

no

[ewerk 31238]

No, because that would apportion part of the blame on the Tories, wouldn't it?

[Christmas Tree 4866]

Leaders' Debate: Lessons For Next Time

 

 

The first UK election debate brought with it a real sense of interest and expectation.

 

Would there be a knock-out blow? Would any of the candidates slip up? How would they cope with the intense scrutiny and interrogation under the hot TV studio lights for 90 minutes?

 

At the end, many viewers may feel their expectations weren't quite met.

 

There was no "you're no Jack Kennedy" moment and none of the candidates lost their way.

 

In fact the only one who seemed really flustered by the experience was ITV's host Alastair Stewart.

 

Yet there is still much to learn from the performances of the leaders in the first debate.

 

And it may well shift the political sands - it will take a few days to see how the real polls shift, but Labour may find itself with deeper problems, pecked upon from both the left and the right.

 

As expected, Brown was Mr Policy - he rattled off the facts and figures of policy after policy and he was often dry and a little emotionless but certainly confident and in command.

 

He introduced a joke or two - about Ashcroft and Cameron's "airbrushed" posters - but critically Brown tried to do two things.

 

First, he tried to put David Cameron on the spot on the economy and cuts - and on this, he must have left disappointed.

 

Try as he might, he didn't land a real blow on the Tories and therefore the debate is unlikely to have shifted the fortunes of Labour much in the election race.

Secondly, he tried to position Labour and the Lib Dems as agreeing on issues in opposition to the Tories.

 

Brown did this in a very obvious way, repeating "I agree with Nick" on a number of occasions.

 

But Nick Clegg spoke up and said he did not at all support the Labour plans for government reform.

 

Brown neither defeated the Tories nor eclipsed the Lib Dems.

 

He neither stood up for New Labour to stem moderate losses nor defeated the potential defection on the left to Clegg and his party.

He will have to re-strategize.

 

Cameron entered the debate with the highest burden of expectations and with most to lose, but by the end he must have been moderately pleased.

 

At Prime Minister's Questions Cameron has often come across as quite aloof and posh but in this debate he did three things he needed to do - he repulsed the Labour attacks, he offered the more personal side of himself with stories from the stump and his family and finally in his closing he displayed a bit of optimism, something otherwise missing from the debate.

 

In the critical exchange on the economy he positioned Brown as supporting waste in government and Brown went on about how the government had to keep spending.

 

For voters concerned about the economy, this was a key exchange and Cameron got the better of it.

 

In the expectations game, Nick Clegg had the lowest of them all and probably has the biggest post-game smile of them all.

 

He knew the debate gave him something his predecessors as Lib Dem leaders would have given their right arm for - equal status at a major election debate.

There's no doubt Clegg seized his moment.

 

Even though his mantra that Lib Dems are a real alternative to the "old parties" did start to sound a bit repetitive by the end, Clegg used the questions from the audience to the best effect- he managed constant references to the names of those who posed the questions and the issues they raised.

 

He also looked the most comfortable in his own style and approach.

 

The instant polls are re-enforcing the impression that he won and that he is carving out a serious third-way in British politics.

 

But Clegg is likely taking more voters from Labour - not from the Tories - and this may complicate things further for Brown, whose strategy this time was to agree with the Lib Dems, a strategy he may regret as a serious potential error.

 

The three leaders have now had a chance to size each other up, though they barely looked at each other.

 

This is a three-round match and next time they will all come back with a fresh opportunity and a renewed challenge.

 

If the debate doesn't move Brown's numbers, expect him next time to go even harder against Cameron and to separate himself from Clegg.

 

Expect Clegg to try and build on the momentum he will have earned, but with likely more flack from his opponents.

 

And for Cameron, expectations might still be high but my guess is that he will continue to play it safe to try to run out the clock.

[Christmas Tree 4866]

No, because that would apportion part of the blame on the Tories, wouldn't it?

 

 

an incy wincy tiny little modacum

[Christmas Tree 4866]

Gordon Brown: "I have been saying since the crisis started that we didn't have enough global regulation." Gordon Brown has admitted he made a mistake in not introducing tougher bank regulation when he was chancellor.

 

The PM, chancellor from 1997 to 2007, said that in the 1990s the banks had all been calling for less regulation. "And actually the truth is that globally and nationally we should have been regulating them more," he said in an interview on ITV1's Tonight.

 

The Conservatives said Mr Brown had made a "big mistake", while the Lib Dems said his words were "not enough". The prime minister said he should have put the "whole public interest" before the banks but had "learnt" from the experience.

 

Mr Brown said: "In the 1990s, the banks, they all came to us and said, 'Look, we don't want to be regulated, we want to be free of regulation'...All the complaints I was getting from people was, 'Look you're regulating them too much'. And actually the truth is that globally and nationally we should have been regulating them more," he added. "So I've learnt from that. So you don't listen to the industry when they say, 'This is good for us'. You've got to talk about the whole public interest."

 

You dont say Sherlock

[Christmas Tree 4866]

Any government thats had 13 years has used all the best people and is usually corrupt and exhausted.

 

 

The tories are corrupt before they get in man. Look at the shadow cabinet...

 

Hague

Has the stink of the Ashcroft affair hanging around him.

 

Osborne

Has the Deripaska claim, and he was one of the MPs to have 'flipped' his home in the expenses scandal.

 

Grayling

A mess.

Made hundreds of thousands in the expenses scandal.

Says B&B's should have the right to turn away gay couples.

Cooks the numbers on crime.

and....

On 7 October 2009 he was asked by the BBC about a Conservative Party plan to offer General Sir Richard Dannatt an advisory role. He, thinking it was a Labour appointment, said he hoped it was not a "political gimmick", and said "We've seen too many appointments in this government of external people where it's all been about Gordon Brown's PR.". When he realized he had misheard the question, and that it was a possible appointment of his own party, he said he was "really delighted" with the idea, adding "It's a bit embarrassing really because I would have liked to give General Dannatt a more enthusiastic welcome."

 

Pickles

had to pay back £300 following the expenses scandal.

 

Lansley

Another flipper

 

Spelman

Nannygate

Received £40,000 for cleaning and bills for her constituency home, despite being her main home.

 

Gove

Another flipper

 

Fox

Ridiculous expenses claims (£19,000 on his mobile phone)

Twice admitted to breaking parliamentary rules.

 

These are just the ones I've looked at so far. Every one of them, a twat. I could keep going.

 

 

 

Heres some more for you, unfortunateley too much Labour Sleaze to copy and Paste so I'll just link

 

The Tories' brand of sleaze looks pretty weedy compared to the wholesale corruption practised by the likes of Mandelson, Robinson, Irvine, Vaz, Byers, Jo Moore, Milburn, Hughes, Paul Corrigan, and Blair himself!

 

http://www.labour-watch.com/sleaze.htm

[Renton 22064]

Wow, quotes Sky News and 'Labour-watch'. What's the point in that CT?

[Renton 22064]

Gordon Brown: "I have been saying since the crisis started that we didn't have enough global regulation." Gordon Brown has admitted he made a mistake in not introducing tougher bank regulation when he was chancellor.

 

The PM, chancellor from 1997 to 2007, said that in the 1990s the banks had all been calling for less regulation. "And actually the truth is that globally and nationally we should have been regulating them more," he said in an interview on ITV1's Tonight.

 

The Conservatives said Mr Brown had made a "big mistake", while the Lib Dems said his words were "not enough". The prime minister said he should have put the "whole public interest" before the banks but had "learnt" from the experience.

 

Mr Brown said: "In the 1990s, the banks, they all came to us and said, 'Look, we don't want to be regulated, we want to be free of regulation'...All the complaints I was getting from people was, 'Look you're regulating them too much'. And actually the truth is that globally and nationally we should have been regulating them more," he added. "So I've learnt from that. So you don't listen to the industry when they say, 'This is good for us'. You've got to talk about the whole public interest."

 

You dont say Sherlock

 

Is that not somewhat ironic coming from a tory?

[Happy Face 29]

Heres some more for you, unfortunateley too much Labour Sleaze to copy and Paste so I'll just link

 

The Tories' brand of sleaze looks pretty weedy compared to the wholesale corruption practised by the likes of Mandelson, Robinson, Irvine, Vaz, Byers, Jo Moore, Milburn, Hughes, Paul Corrigan, and Blair himself!

 

http://www.labour-watch.com/sleaze.htm

 

I never said labour weren't corrupt. I don't intend to vote for them either. I was offering balance to your suggestion that 13 years in power leads to corruption when 13 years in opposition hasn't left the tories anything to crow about on that score.

[Craig 6700]

Gordon Brown: "I have been saying since the crisis started that we didn't have enough global regulation." Gordon Brown has admitted he made a mistake in not introducing tougher bank regulation when he was chancellor.

 

The PM, chancellor from 1997 to 2007, said that in the 1990s the banks had all been calling for less regulation. "And actually the truth is that globally and nationally we should have been regulating them more," he said in an interview on ITV1's Tonight.

 

The Conservatives said Mr Brown had made a "big mistake", while the Lib Dems said his words were "not enough". The prime minister said he should have put the "whole public interest" before the banks but had "learnt" from the experience.

 

Mr Brown said: "In the 1990s, the banks, they all came to us and said, 'Look, we don't want to be regulated, we want to be free of regulation'...All the complaints I was getting from people was, 'Look you're regulating them too much'. And actually the truth is that globally and nationally we should have been regulating them more," he added. "So I've learnt from that. So you don't listen to the industry when they say, 'This is good for us'. You've got to talk about the whole public interest."

 

You dont say Sherlock

 

Is that not somewhat ironic coming from a tory?

 

Labour and Tories both as bad as each other tbh and this thread helps to prove it.

[Christmas Tree 4866]

Gordon Brown: "I have been saying since the crisis started that we didn't have enough global regulation." Gordon Brown has admitted he made a mistake in not introducing tougher bank regulation when he was chancellor.

 

The PM, chancellor from 1997 to 2007, said that in the 1990s the banks had all been calling for less regulation. "And actually the truth is that globally and nationally we should have been regulating them more," he said in an interview on ITV1's Tonight.

 

The Conservatives said Mr Brown had made a "big mistake", while the Lib Dems said his words were "not enough". The prime minister said he should have put the "whole public interest" before the banks but had "learnt" from the experience.

 

Mr Brown said: "In the 1990s, the banks, they all came to us and said, 'Look, we don't want to be regulated, we want to be free of regulation'...All the complaints I was getting from people was, 'Look you're regulating them too much'. And actually the truth is that globally and nationally we should have been regulating them more," he added. "So I've learnt from that. So you don't listen to the industry when they say, 'This is good for us'. You've got to talk about the whole public interest."

 

You dont say Sherlock

 

Is that not somewhat ironic coming from a tory?

 

Labour and Tories both as bad as each other tbh and this thread helps to prove it.

 

 

Ofcourse they are, egomaniacs all of them!

[Happy Face 29]

Not sure what Clegg was on about here like.....

 

We're wasting money on computer systems and bureaucracy. I want to turn that on its head so we can protect the NHS we all rely on.

 

Computers are faster, more efficient and cheaper in the long run than paper, biros and the post office. Labour have spent money on a system to reap long term savings. I go to see a GP now and there isn't a receptionist. There's a touch screen to greet me that isn't paid a salary. Is that not the savings from cutting beuraucracy he's on about?

[Renton 22064]

Gordon Brown: "I have been saying since the crisis started that we didn't have enough global regulation." Gordon Brown has admitted he made a mistake in not introducing tougher bank regulation when he was chancellor.

 

The PM, chancellor from 1997 to 2007, said that in the 1990s the banks had all been calling for less regulation. "And actually the truth is that globally and nationally we should have been regulating them more," he said in an interview on ITV1's Tonight.

 

The Conservatives said Mr Brown had made a "big mistake", while the Lib Dems said his words were "not enough". The prime minister said he should have put the "whole public interest" before the banks but had "learnt" from the experience.

 

Mr Brown said: "In the 1990s, the banks, they all came to us and said, 'Look, we don't want to be regulated, we want to be free of regulation'...All the complaints I was getting from people was, 'Look you're regulating them too much'. And actually the truth is that globally and nationally we should have been regulating them more," he added. "So I've learnt from that. So you don't listen to the industry when they say, 'This is good for us'. You've got to talk about the whole public interest."

 

You dont say Sherlock

 

Is that not somewhat ironic coming from a tory?

 

Labour and Tories both as bad as each other tbh and this thread helps to prove it.

 

How does this thread prove it though?

 

One thing I can't stand is this lazy belief there's no difference between the parties, it's like you're making an excuse to be apathetic. Of course there's differences - although both parties have moved towards the central ground there's still a clear ideological line drawn between them. We'll find that out soon enough if the tories are elected. Memories are short it appears.

[Renton 22064]

Not sure what Clegg was on about here like.....

 

We're wasting money on computer systems and bureaucracy. I want to turn that on its head so we can protect the NHS we all rely on.

 

Computers are faster, more efficient and cheaper in the long run than paper, biros and the post office. Labour have spent money on a system to reap long term savings. I go to see a GP now and there isn't a receptionist. There's a touch screen to greet me that isn't paid a salary. Is that not the savings from cutting beuraucracy he's on about?

 

Clegg let himself down at the end there. He talked of scrapping the Strategic Health Authority so more money could be put into the 'front line'. He's an intelligent man so I can only assume this was a cheap shot for the Daily Mail crowd.

 

'Planning'

[ewerk 31238]

Not sure what Clegg was on about here like.....

 

We're wasting money on computer systems and bureaucracy. I want to turn that on its head so we can protect the NHS we all rely on.

 

Computers are faster, more efficient and cheaper in the long run than paper, biros and the post office. Labour have spent money on a system to reap long term savings. I go to see a GP now and there isn't a receptionist. There's a touch screen to greet me that isn't paid a salary. Is that not the savings from cutting beuraucracy he's on about?

 

I think he was talking more about what a huge cock up the new system has been and wants to postpone work on it to save money.

 

At least it's still on budget, despite all the problems, something the government should get credit for.