General Election 2010

[NJS 4252]

In fact if I was Cameron I'd wait until the day after this law is passed and sack all the liberals and tell them to fuck off and run as a "minority" government.

 

How could that possibly benefit him at all? Particualarly if in 5 years time, the Tories are again the largest party but again without a majority.

 

Can't see the Lib Dems siding with him again if it follows your suggestion.

 

If he has confidence in "real" undiluted Tory policies then why not? - if they work he can fight on that record on a "we don't need anyone else" platform.

 

Of course it would be a gamble but at least he would be able to rule on "principle".

[Renton 20414]

It's actually taken me till reading Renton's post to realise what they've done (feeling dull this week) - I just hadn't realised that the 47% they have on their own means only a rebellion can cause an election - what a bunch of twats.

 

Which has been the case in all the elections that have resulted in a majority government...

 

What type of circular logic is this?

[Park Life 71]

I seriously think of a lot of Liberals are completed deluded and are in denial as to what has happened.

 

Agreed.

[Meenzer 15111]

It's interesting that people are surprised to find the Lib Dems are as careerist and cynical as any other politicians. Apparently they believed the "old politics/new politics" spiel from the leader of the Whigs.

[spongebob toonpants 3845]

I think you are completely out of line on this one Craig - it stinks

[Christmas Tree 4433]

Having been away all week I'm not quite upto speed with this little gem of legislation.

 

Surely if all the parties decided to get together they could just vote down every law / bill so it would be a dead government anyway.

 

Be interested to hear the "for" view when I get home.

 

Also Renton taking the high ground about tradition etc , I'm sure when Blair got in he changed quite a few century old traditions pretty much straight away. Think one of them was something to do with reducing prime ministers questions and instead favouring his presedential style q&a sessions with the media.

[Renton 20414]

Having been away all week I'm not quite upto speed with this little gem of legislation.

 

Surely if all the parties decided to get together they could just vote down every law / bill so it would be a dead government anyway.

 

Be interested to hear the "for" view when I get home.

 

Also Renton taking the high ground about tradition etc , I'm sure when Blair got in he changed quite a few century old traditions pretty much straight away. Think one of them was something to do with reducing prime ministers questions and instead favouring his presedential style q&a sessions with the media.

 

Reducing PM questions is equivalent to this is it? Righto.

 

This is quite simply indefensible, don't let that stop you trying though.

[Renton 20414]

It's interesting that people are surprised to find the Lib Dems are as careerist and cynical as any other politicians. Apparently they believed the "old politics/new politics" spiel from the leader of the Whigs.

 

They campaigned on electoral fairness though didn't they, and this could hardly be further from that. I am honestly disappointed by their 'cynicism', I had thought they might represent something better than this .

 

Glad the truth is out in the open now though, they'll get little sympathy from me and millions of others at the next election.

[Christmas Tree 4433]

The big problem with the arguments from libs and labs in this thread is your argument comes from a bias of evil Thatcherite Tories wanting to introduce policies to take everyones first born.

 

They actually don't have any evil policies. There might be a few that are not everyones first choice, but none that are terribly evil ffs.

 

I'm sure clegg and his mps have looked at the joint manifestos and thought while there are some differences, there are a whole host of things that they do agree on, even if the idea of how to achieve them are different.

 

Haven't heard too many in this thread congratulating the Tories on restoring the retail pension link.

 

You all have mass leazes mag syndrome.

 

You should start concentrating on the policies not the hysteria.

[Park Life 71]

Having been away all week I'm not quite upto speed with this little gem of legislation.

 

Surely if all the parties decided to get together they could just vote down every law / bill so it would be a dead government anyway.

 

Be interested to hear the "for" view when I get home.

 

Also Renton taking the high ground about tradition etc , I'm sure when Blair got in he changed quite a few century old traditions pretty much straight away. Think one of them was something to do with reducing prime ministers questions and instead favouring his presedential style q&a sessions with the media.

 

Reducing PM questions is equivalent to this is it? Righto.

 

This is quite simply indefensible, don't let that stop you trying though.

 

They're planning to stay in power and through the coming crisis, therefore neee to shore up any loopholes.

[Meenzer 15111]

It's interesting that people are surprised to find the Lib Dems are as careerist and cynical as any other politicians. Apparently they believed the "old politics/new politics" spiel from the leader of the Whigs.

 

They campaigned on electoral fairness though didn't they, and this could hardly be further from that. I am honestly disappointed by their 'cynicism', I had thought they might represent something better than this .

 

Glad the truth is out in the open now though, they'll get little sympathy from me and millions of others at the next election.

 

Oh definitely, I expect a wipeout. But that would have happened whether they'd gone blue, red or non-committal. If all else is lost, you might as well get a few years of sweet, sweet power in the process.

[Craig 6576]

I think you are completely out of line on this one Craig - it stinks

 

I'm out of line because I don't agree with you? Touché my friend

 

Let me make it clear. I don't agree with the constant 55% but I do feel it should be changed to a variable value that equates to the percentage of MPs who are not the largest party plus 1.

 

I also agree with Meenzer's sentiments too. It's almost as though you expect Lib Dems to have better core beliefs than Tories or Labour. They're all politicians at the end of the day.

[Craig 6576]

 

Ex-minister Stephen Timms stabbed at constituency event

 

Former Labour minister Stephen Timms is in hospital after being stabbed.

 

Police said Mr Timms, 54, was stabbed in the stomach at a constituency event in Newham, east London, but stressed his injuries were not life-threatening.

 

A 21-year old woman has been arrested after the attack at about 1500 BST but police have not given further details about what happened.

 

Mr Timms served at the Treasury under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown and was recently re-elected as MP for East Ham.

 

The MP is reported to be sitting up in Royal London Hospital and talking to staff.

 

He was stabbed at the Beckton Globe Library, where he holds a regular constituency surgery.

 

Mr Timms was a close confidant of both Gordon Brown and Alastair Darling during Labour's 13 years in government, serving latterly as financial secretary to the Treasury.

 

He has been MP for the constituency - and previously for Newham North East - since 1994.

 

His personal popularity in his constituency is reflected by the fact that he secured a 7.7% swing from the Conservatives in last week's election, when Labour was generally losing ground across the country.

 

Mr Timms won a remarkable 70.4% of the vote and his 27,826 majority is the largest in the new House of Commons.

 

Married to Hui-Leng Lim, he describes himself as a Christian Socialist and is Labour's vice-chairman for faith groups.

 

Cabinet ministers and former ministers, particularly those who served in departments such as the Home Office and the Northern Ireland Office, have security protection; the majority of MPs do not.

 

In 2000 Liberal Democrat MP Nigel Jones was wounded and his aide, Andrew Pennington, was stabbed to death in a frenzied sword attack during a constituency surgery at the party's office in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire.

 

Mr Jones, a married father of three, was conducting his weekly surgery when he received lacerations to his hands and arms while fending off blows from Robert Ashman, who was jailed for manslaughter and attempted murder.

 

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8683596.stm

[Meenzer 15111]

Not pleasant. That's the Newham that went 100% Labour at the council elections, too - having grown up in Newcastle, I'm always amazed by authorities that elect their councillors in one go every four years, as opposed to the rotational system we have. Anyway, not relevant to the point at hand, which is glad he's OK.

[Christmas Tree 4433]

David Cameron faces Tory revolt over 55 per cent rule

 

The Times

David Cameron was facing his first backbench rebellion today over a plan designed to make it more difficult for the Opposition to force a general election if his new coalition Government is defeated in a vote of confidence.

 

A number of Tory MPs, including one who is a frontrunner to become chairman of the powerful 1922 Committee, warned the Prime Minister that his plan requiring a vote of at least 55 per cent of MPs for Parliament to be dissolved before the end of its five-year term would undermine the “primacy of Parliament".

 

Charles Walker, the Conservative MP for Broxbourne, said the plan was simply being introduced for the “con-Parliament”.

 

“It is not the duty of Parliament to prop up this coalition. That is the duty of the coalition partners and if they can’t make it work and if they lose the confidence of Parliament then we must have a general election. It is a simple as that,” Mr Walker said.

 

“This is a matter of convenience because clearly the leader of our party, David Cameron, wants a five-year Parliament and the Liberal Democrats want fixed terms and they don’t want there to be a general election along the way.

 

“But if Parliament and the nation lose confidence in this coalition government there should be a general election, whether that is in two years or three years or four years. This is about the primacy of Parliament.”

 

Mr Cameron agreed to institute fixed terms as part of the coalition deal with the Liberal Democrats, to reassure them that the Tories would not simply pull out and call a snap general election when the opinion polls were running in their favour.

 

In return, the Tories insisted on the 55 per cent “super-majority” to protect themselves against a Lib-Lab pact in the event of a coalition break-up. In the past Commons votes have only ever required a simple majority.

 

The 55 per cent plan was also attacked by the veterans Richard Ottaway, who is in the running to head the 1922 Committee of backbenchers, and Christopher Chope. Mr Ottaway, MP for Croydon South, said: “It’s constitutionally incoherent. Unless it can be clarified, it’s not acceptable.”

 

Mr Chope, MP for Christchurch, told BBC Radio 4’s The World At One that the proposal was “unsustainable”.

 

“If the present Government was to lose its majority in Parliament and wasn’t able to operate as a minority government because it didn’t enjoy the confidence of a sufficient number of MPs, then what is being suggested is that it would be able to carry on. That would be, basically, a recipe for anarchy,” he said.

 

He said there had been no proper consultation with Conservative MPs about the plan.

 

“This document seems to have been cobbled together in quite a short space of time and hasn’t been discussed or consulted on with any member of the Conservative Parliamentary Party other than those who are closest to the leader,” he said.

 

“If the Prime Minister wishes to limit his discretion to dissolve Parliament he can do that just as a matter of honour and trust by agreement with the leader of the Liberal Democrats.”

 

The plan was defended by Sir George Young, the Leader of the Commons, who said that it would take power away from the Prime Minister and hand it to MPs.

 

“The mechanism for a no-confidence vote in the Government is unchanged but what our proposals would do is give Parliament a new power to dissolve itself, a power currently only exercised by the Prime Minister,” he said in an article posted on the Conservativehome website.

 

“The proposal is not for a fixed term for the Government; but for Parliament. It makes it harder for the Prime Minister to call a snap election for his partisan interest and instead ensures that the decision is in the hands of MPs.”

 

Mr Walker said that he was “extremely hopeful” that the Government would re-think the plan. “Many of these negotiations went on very late into the night and were conducted by people who had had very little sleep. I think that the negotiating team got ahead of themselves on this one and they need to revisit it,” he said.

 

But Mr Cameron defended the proposal as one which hands power to MPs - but made clear that MPs would be able to debate it.

 

"It is an important change and one I think should be welcome," he said, on a visit to the Scottish Parliament in Edinburgh.

 

"I'm the first prime minister in British history to give up the right unilaterally to ask the Queen for a dissolution of Parliament. This is a huge change in our system, it is a big giving-up of power.

 

"Clearly, if you want a fixed-term Parliament you have to have a mechanism to deliver it.

 

"Obviously that is a mechanism that can be debated in the House of Commons, it can be discussed, but I believe that it is a good arrangement to give us strong and stable government."

 

The clear danger for Mr Cameron is that the issue could become a lightning rod for disgruntled Tory MPs who would have preferred the Conservatives to govern alone as a minority administration.

 

The plan has already been roundly condemned by Labour former ministers as “profoundly anti-democratic” and a “stitch-up”.

 

Last night Lord Falconer, the former Lord Chancellor, warned that it could lead to a “zombie government” if ministers were defeated on a vote of confidence, but there was insufficient support for a dissolution.

 

 

Based on this story it does seem a bit of a daft idea. As I said earlier if a government cant get its laws through parliament there seems little point in the government remaining.

 

It sounds as though its going to get knocked back in parliament anyway.

 

However, if Labour has put it in place in Scotland there must be some merit / reason for it which I cant seem to see.

[Craig 6576]

If there's that much opposition to it, then surely the point is moot anyway - it won't get approved.

 

A colleague at work made an interesting point re: Cameron renaging on the right to call an election. The Conservatives and Lib Dems hold 55% between them. Therefore so long as he persuades both parties to agree, he still will have the power to call an election.

 

What isn't a clever move IMO is the timing of this. Reminds me of when Labour pushed through their bill on University tuition fees which was also deeply unpopular - although I think they left this one a good couple of weeks after the election.

[Christmas Tree 4433]

Just watched this weeks question time which I thought was excellent.

 

The angry new statesman man was well, angry. Simon Hughes, who I normally think of as an utter fruitloop, seemed to talk quite a bit of sense and Heseltine he was just simply brilliant as usual.

 

He just tells it how it is. Basically telling the audience to stop whinging about the hung parliament cos it was their fault for voting that way.

[PaddockLad 16505]

Just watched this weeks question time which I thought was excellent.

 

The angry new statesman man was well, angry. Simon Hughes, who I normally think of as an utter fruitloop, seemed to talk quite a bit of sense and Heseltine he was just simply brilliant as usual.

 

He just tells it how it is. Basically telling the audience to stop whinging about the hung parliament cos it was their fault for voting that way.

 

Yeah I saw the proto-facist cunt last night....he's blaming the electorate for the faults of the electoral system....he fuckin hates people,full stop, What a cunt....nothing to do with any of the 3 parties being too useless to elect then Tarzan?

[Christmas Tree 4433]

Just watched this weeks question time which I thought was excellent.

 

The angry new statesman man was well, angry. Simon Hughes, who I normally think of as an utter fruitloop, seemed to talk quite a bit of sense and Heseltine he was just simply brilliant as usual.

 

He just tells it how it is. Basically telling the audience to stop whinging about the hung parliament cos it was their fault for voting that way.

 

Yeah I saw the proto-facist cunt last night....he's blaming the electorate for the faults of the electoral system....he fuckin hates people,full stop, What a cunt....nothing to do with any of the 3 parties being too useless to elect then Tarzan?

 

 

But as has been said many times, PR would probably make coalitions the norm rather than the exception. As quite a few expressed on QT last night, the Lib Dems will probably get a good kicking at the next election making a clear winner more likely.

 

The big problem is that all three main parties are so close these days that there really isnt much of a choice.

[PaddockLad 16505]

Just watched this weeks question time which I thought was excellent.

 

The angry new statesman man was well, angry. Simon Hughes, who I normally think of as an utter fruitloop, seemed to talk quite a bit of sense and Heseltine he was just simply brilliant as usual.

 

He just tells it how it is. Basically telling the audience to stop whinging about the hung parliament cos it was their fault for voting that way.

 

Yeah I saw the proto-facist cunt last night....he's blaming the electorate for the faults of the electoral system....he fuckin hates people,full stop, What a cunt....nothing to do with any of the 3 parties being too useless to elect then Tarzan?

 

 

But as has been said many times, PR would probably make coalitions the norm rather than the exception. As quite a few expressed on QT last night, the Lib Dems will probably get a good kicking at the next election making a clear winner more likely.

 

The big problem is that all three main parties are so close these days that there really isnt much of a choice.

 

aint that the truth....but it didnt stop Hezza glowering at the audience as if theyd just planted a bomb in the hotel he was staying in...did you see the look of contempt on his fuckin face?

[Christmas Tree 4433]

Just watched this weeks question time which I thought was excellent.

 

The angry new statesman man was well, angry. Simon Hughes, who I normally think of as an utter fruitloop, seemed to talk quite a bit of sense and Heseltine he was just simply brilliant as usual.

 

He just tells it how it is. Basically telling the audience to stop whinging about the hung parliament cos it was their fault for voting that way.

 

Yeah I saw the proto-facist cunt last night....he's blaming the electorate for the faults of the electoral system....he fuckin hates people,full stop, What a cunt....nothing to do with any of the 3 parties being too useless to elect then Tarzan?

 

 

But as has been said many times, PR would probably make coalitions the norm rather than the exception. As quite a few expressed on QT last night, the Lib Dems will probably get a good kicking at the next election making a clear winner more likely.

 

The big problem is that all three main parties are so close these days that there really isnt much of a choice.

 

aint that the truth....but it didnt stop Hezza glowering at the audience as if theyd just planted a bomb in the hotel he was staying in...did you see the look of contempt on his fuckin face?

 

I did but I think he's great.

 

He's one of the old style politicians before spin who can debate there point really well and usually honestly and bluntly.

 

A spade is a spade and they just get on with it without worrying about the spin like the current lot.

 

There used to be quite a few on both sides such as Tony benn who just got it on!!!!

 

Old Skool

[NJS 4252]

Whether the figure of 55% no-confidence is fair or not is open for debate but considering they put 66% no-confidence laws in place in Scotland, it's a bit rich coming from Labour.

 

There are lots of semi-arbitrary percentages used for things like takeover bids and changes to articles of association and common ones are 90%, 75% and 66% so I'd guess the Scottish one was picked on that sort of basis.

 

The key here is not 55% but 45% - the fact that the Tories have 47% stands out even to an ultra-cynic like me as a complete cunt's trick - and as such so very Tory.

[Craig 6576]

Having thought about it for a couple of days, I can see a degree of sneakiness to it - but not in the respect of what's been widely reported or discussed here.

 

The key is IMO the 55% rather than the 45% and it's on the basis of being able to call an election. The Tories on their own would not be able to call an election but with the Lib Dems onside they most certainly can as between them they hold (surprise, surprise) 55% of the seats.

[peasepud 59]

I have to admit I must have misunderstood it.

 

Id thought it was the ability of the opposition to call a vote of no confidence in the government.

 

Currently as it stands when a vote of no-confidence is carried out you need a simple majority to have it passed. In normal circumstances thats 50.15% (326 out of 650 MPs), under the new rules you need 55% to pass a vote of no-confidence which would mean 357 MPs had to agree.

 

Is that not the case?

[Craig 6576]

From what I've read it's the equivalent of the Tory MPs plus the LibDem MPs plus 1 which I think comes to 364.