Should Dyer be considered a regular starter?

[LeazesMag 0]

How can I be the new King when I'm the current and always have been?

58203[/snapback]

 

well, let me guess, after FROTH...the next 4 letters stand for

 

fuckin jackass kieron dyer ..

[Guest Sima]

Fit (just) Kieron Dyer tbh.

[Howaythelads 0]

I can assure you I'm not losing my rag.

 

A serious question:  are you EVER going to recover from the fact that Bellamy doesn't play for us anymore?

 

I don't mean to sound flippant or like I'm taking the piss as that's not what I'm trying to do.  But seriously, he is gone and he's never coming back.  And I know you think we were better off with him and feel duty-bound to point this out constantly, but do you not get bored of going on about him?

 

You may well be right about Solano and Bellamy, but now we've only got one of them then surely it's up to Solano to find passes for the players that DO play for us - I accept that there is also a duty on those players to make themselves available.

58195[/snapback]

 

Not at all. The name of the game is movement, the best teams have it and it's what makes passes easy. It's why our midfielders looked better last season for the short period when Dyer went up front, even though he's not a natural forward like Bellamy.

 

Owen has movement and pace, but he's a predator, he doesn't make the same kind of runs Bellamy made. Bellamy dragged defenders all over the place, making himself available for link up play with Solano while also making space for Dyer to run into. Solano has the ability to pick out these runs, but right now nobody is doing it. It's a team game, if Solano isn't looking the part it's not all down to him, and it's not all down to lack of match fitness either. It's the way we play.

 

If everyone was fit I'd put Dyer up front with Owen, he's the closest we have to a player who makes these kind of runs.

Edited November 20, 2005 by Howaythelads

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3998]

LM, it isn't relevant at all.  The question was do you think Dyer can be considered a regular starter?  Your answer to this question was "he's not a bigger asset than Craig Bellamy".  Not an answer to the question and therefore not relevant.  It was followed by an equally irrelevant rant about money spent.

58182[/snapback]

 

 

Well, we all have our point of view. As everyone was swooning over Solano, surely you aren't discarding him already ? Same as Boumsong when he came, see another thread.

 

There is a bigger picture as well, which is quite simply that there was a time we wouldn't even have considered a question like this, but that was under a different manager who got better results.

 

I am pleased that you, an accountant, can sniff at 50m quid and a worse performance for the money, so easily.

58184[/snapback]

 

No I'm not discarding Solano, but I do feel he needs to start looking the part a bit more - neat little passes in the middle of the park are all well and good, but we bought him to deliver quality into the box. He needs to start doing that.

 

I'm not sure what your point about the bigger picture is tbh - are you saying that in the past Dyer was a guaranteed first choice and so the question didn't need to be asked? Or are you making some other point?

 

As for the question of the 50m quid - I'm not sniffing at it, just pointing out that it had fuck all to do with the topic at hand.

58188[/snapback]

 

In his defence he needs to see someone in the box to pass to before he will do that.

[Django Reinhardt 0]

Anyway, to the point. Who were these 6 regular starters missing from the team?

58180[/snapback]

 

Well I counted Taylor, Carr, Dyer, Luque, Shearer and Owen. Of course I'm questioning here if we can consider Dyer a first teamer but I'm fairly convinced that the others would be in the team if fit. So maybe five with a questionable sixth. I do think Taylor has pushed himself ahead of Bramble in the pecking order though it reamins to be seen. Luque would be a guaranteed starter simply because of the fee and the fact that he's a Souness signing. I do think he'll be quality once he settles in though.

 

I agree that only Owen out of those missing is "top class" but I think many of the others would have made a difference. Luque is still something of an unknown quality so we don't know how much more he would have done than N'Zogbia. I'm hoping he's going to join Michael in the "top class" bracket.

[Howaythelads 0]

Anyway, to the point. Who were these 6 regular starters missing from the team?

58180[/snapback]

 

Well I counted Taylor, Carr, Dyer, Luque, Shearer and Owen. Of course I'm questioning here if we can consider Dyer a first teamer but I'm fairly convinced that the others would be in the team if fit. So maybe five with a questionable sixth. I do think Taylor has pushed himself ahead of Bramble in the pecking order though it reamins to be seen. Luque would be a guaranteed starter simply because of the fee and the fact that he's a Souness signing. I do think he'll be quality once he settles in though.

 

I agree that only Owen out of those missing is "top class" but I think many of the others would have made a difference. Luque is still something of an unknown quality so we don't know how much more he would have done than N'Zogbia. I'm hoping he's going to join Michael in the "top class" bracket.

58216[/snapback]

 

Ok, so we disagree on the number of missing regulars. My point is that of these missing regulars, who would have made a difference? I think only Owen. Luque IF he turns out to be any good in the EPL, but we don't know that yet, do we?

[Django Reinhardt 0]

Ok, so we disagree on the number of missing regulars. My point is that of these missing regulars, who would have made a difference? I think only Owen. Luque IF he turns out to be any good in the EPL, but we don't know that yet, do we?

58217[/snapback]

 

Well it's all hypothetical of course but I don't believe Taylor would have made the jaw dropping errors that either Bramble or Boumsong made in the game. Shearer would have provided more of a goal threat than Ameobi, if only from set pieces. It's difficult to see how much more Carr could have done than Ramage particularly in that game but he's obviously the more accomplished full back.

 

It's difficult to judge from the Chelsea game alone since the team played quite well but simply shot themselves in the foot with very poor defensive mistakes. I think swapping in the players I mention would over the whole season result in better performances and results. At least I hope that's the case although I realise I'm falling for the old "if we get our full team out we'll be a force to be reckoned with" cliche. I certainly agree that we'd need to replace both Bramble and Boumsong, and that Taylor is not the finished article.

 

I'd also consider playing Luque up front ahead of Shearer in the odd game, just to see how well he does. N'Zogbia seems to be doing well enough to start at left wing anyway. Dyer is an option as well of course but I think Luque offers us something a bit different up there though not having seen much of him in that position I can't really comment with any authority. I do know he's played there for the national side.

[Bombadil 0]

I agree that Solano has yet to find his form, but from what I've seen it looks like his instructions are to drift inside more than usual, I thought that was especially the case at West Brom. I think he'll definitely get better once Carr returns to the team as well. As for Dyer, I hope he'll be fit again soon, but I wouldn't play him on the right wing.

[Guest alex]

I think people are starting to remember Solano isn't THAT good. And I like Solano by the way.

[David Kelly 1260]

You can't expect players to come into the team and play at their peak beacuse quite simply the team isn't playing well.

The players that have been missing have certainly contributed to this but I think a lot of it comes down to the manager not having the ability to get them playing well.

He's had his chance to bring in his own faces and I don' t think he's doen too badly at all (Faye being the obvious exception and Boumsong the way he's playing too). But is it really that difficult to sign decent players with the money he's had to spend? How many people wouldn't have signed Owen, Parker and Solano given the money? And we don't exactly have a scouting network at our disposal!

 

Anyway to bring this back to the topic, if we had Owen, Shearer, Luque, Dyer, Carr and Taylor available for Saturday and the season in general, I'm sure it would make a difference to the side and more importantly if we stopped picking up new injuries every week (I would say game but it rarely seems to be happening in games!) and could put out a settled team I think it would make a hell of a diffierence (we would still be let down by the managers lack of ability, just by a lesser extent).

 

And as for Dyer, I personally can't see any position where I would say I would play him ahead of anyone else at the moment. But I think he is a valuable option and he could quite possibly force himself into any of the positions mentioned were he able to stay in the squad long enough.

[Howaythelads 0]

You can't expect players to come into the team and play at their peak beacuse quite simply the team isn't playing well.

The players that have been missing have certainly contributed to this but I think a lot of it comes down to the manager not having the ability to get them playing well.

He's had his chance to bring in his own faces and I don' t think he's doen too badly at all (Faye being the obvious exception and Boumsong the way he's playing too).  But is it really that difficult to sign decent players with the money he's had to spend?  How many people wouldn't have signed Owen, Parker and Solano given the money?  And we don't exactly have a scouting network at our disposal!

 

Anyway to bring this back to the topic, if we had Owen, Shearer, Luque, Dyer, Carr and Taylor available for Saturday and the season in general, I'm sure it would make a difference to the side and more importantly if we stopped picking up new injuries every week (I would say game but it rarely seems to be happening in games!) and could put out a settled team I think it would make a hell of a diffierence (we would still be let down by the managers lack of ability, just by a lesser extent).

 

And as for Dyer, I personally can't see any position where I would say I would play him ahead of anyone else at the moment.  But I think he is a valuable option and he could quite possibly force himself into any of the positions mentioned were he able to stay in the squad long enough.

58459[/snapback]

 

See the two bits in bold. You mention 6 players but they wouldn't have all played. It's far from certain that Carr would do anything better than Ramage, and Taylor has dropped numerous gaffs this season. Shearer is on his last legs, Luque still has to adjust. My point still stands, I think only Owen would make a significant difference from that lot.

 

I know people will moan at what I'm going to post now, but if we still had Bellamy, Robert and Hughes, along with Owen those players would make a difference imo.

[Dr Gloom 22193]

You can't expect players to come into the team and play at their peak beacuse quite simply the team isn't playing well.

The players that have been missing have certainly contributed to this but I think a lot of it comes down to the manager not having the ability to get them playing well.

He's had his chance to bring in his own faces and I don' t think he's doen too badly at all (Faye being the obvious exception and Boumsong the way he's playing too).  But is it really that difficult to sign decent players with the money he's had to spend?  How many people wouldn't have signed Owen, Parker and Solano given the money?  And we don't exactly have a scouting network at our disposal!

 

Anyway to bring this back to the topic, if we had Owen, Shearer, Luque, Dyer, Carr and Taylor available for Saturday and the season in general, I'm sure it would make a difference to the side and more importantly if we stopped picking up new injuries every week (I would say game but it rarely seems to be happening in games!) and could put out a settled team I think it would make a hell of a diffierence (we would still be let down by the managers lack of ability, just by a lesser extent).

 

And as for Dyer, I personally can't see any position where I would say I would play him ahead of anyone else at the moment.  But I think he is a valuable option and he could quite possibly force himself into any of the positions mentioned were he able to stay in the squad long enough.

58459[/snapback]

 

See the two bits in bold. You mention 6 players but they wouldn't have all played. It's far from certain that Carr would do anything better than Ramage, and Taylor has dropped numerous gaffs this season. Shearer is on his last legs, Luque still has to adjust. My point still stands, I think only Owen would make a significant difference from that lot.

 

I know people will moan at what I'm going to post now, but if we still had Bellamy, Robert and Hughes, along with Owen those players would make a difference imo.

58587[/snapback]

 

agree with you on most of that but surely not hughes? he's a decent squad player but no better imo than any of our current crop of defenders bar elliot, who is no where near the first team at the moment.

 

makes you wonder why souness sold him and retained elliot tbh

[LeazesMag 0]

You can't expect players to come into the team and play at their peak beacuse quite simply the team isn't playing well.

The players that have been missing have certainly contributed to this but I think a lot of it comes down to the manager not having the ability to get them playing well.

He's had his chance to bring in his own faces and I don' t think he's doen too badly at all (Faye being the obvious exception and Boumsong the way he's playing too).  But is it really that difficult to sign decent players with the money he's had to spend?  How many people wouldn't have signed Owen, Parker and Solano given the money?  And we don't exactly have a scouting network at our disposal!

 

Anyway to bring this back to the topic, if we had Owen, Shearer, Luque, Dyer, Carr and Taylor available for Saturday and the season in general, I'm sure it would make a difference to the side and more importantly if we stopped picking up new injuries every week (I would say game but it rarely seems to be happening in games!) and could put out a settled team I think it would make a hell of a diffierence (we would still be let down by the managers lack of ability, just by a lesser extent).

 

And as for Dyer, I personally can't see any position where I would say I would play him ahead of anyone else at the moment.  But I think he is a valuable option and he could quite possibly force himself into any of the positions mentioned were he able to stay in the squad long enough.

58459[/snapback]

 

See the two bits in bold. You mention 6 players but they wouldn't have all played. It's far from certain that Carr would do anything better than Ramage, and Taylor has dropped numerous gaffs this season. Shearer is on his last legs, Luque still has to adjust. My point still stands, I think only Owen would make a significant difference from that lot.

 

I know people will moan at what I'm going to post now, but if we still had Bellamy, Robert and Hughes, along with Owen those players would make a difference imo.

58587[/snapback]

 

agree with you on most of that but surely not hughes? he's a decent squad player but no better imo than any of our current crop of defenders bar elliot, who is no where near the first team at the moment.

 

makes you wonder why souness sold him and retained elliot tbh

58602[/snapback]

 

because he spoke up for Bellamy ie he was in the Bellamy camp, and made his feelings known about his sale

[Guest alex]

I reckon it's because Hughes was deemed (rightly or wrongly) not to be good enough and he was a player we could get a fee for. Simple as.

[LeazesMag 0]

I reckon it's because Hughes was deemed (rightly or wrongly) not to be good enough and he was a player we could get a fee for. Simple as.

58613[/snapback]

 

 

no. What I say is true.

 

And, if the manager really thinks players such as Moore, Faye and Babayaro are better players to have at the club than Hughes, then it is just more ammunition to peddle him asap, although he's been here 14 months too long already.

[Howaythelads 0]

You can't expect players to come into the team and play at their peak beacuse quite simply the team isn't playing well.

The players that have been missing have certainly contributed to this but I think a lot of it comes down to the manager not having the ability to get them playing well.

He's had his chance to bring in his own faces and I don' t think he's doen too badly at all (Faye being the obvious exception and Boumsong the way he's playing too).  But is it really that difficult to sign decent players with the money he's had to spend?  How many people wouldn't have signed Owen, Parker and Solano given the money?  And we don't exactly have a scouting network at our disposal!

 

Anyway to bring this back to the topic, if we had Owen, Shearer, Luque, Dyer, Carr and Taylor available for Saturday and the season in general, I'm sure it would make a difference to the side and more importantly if we stopped picking up new injuries every week (I would say game but it rarely seems to be happening in games!) and could put out a settled team I think it would make a hell of a diffierence (we would still be let down by the managers lack of ability, just by a lesser extent).

 

And as for Dyer, I personally can't see any position where I would say I would play him ahead of anyone else at the moment.  But I think he is a valuable option and he could quite possibly force himself into any of the positions mentioned were he able to stay in the squad long enough.

58459[/snapback]

 

See the two bits in bold. You mention 6 players but they wouldn't have all played. It's far from certain that Carr would do anything better than Ramage, and Taylor has dropped numerous gaffs this season. Shearer is on his last legs, Luque still has to adjust. My point still stands, I think only Owen would make a significant difference from that lot.

 

I know people will moan at what I'm going to post now, but if we still had Bellamy, Robert and Hughes, along with Owen those players would make a difference imo.

58587[/snapback]

 

agree with you on most of that but surely not hughes? he's a decent squad player but no better imo than any of our current crop of defenders bar elliot, who is no where near the first team at the moment.

 

makes you wonder why souness sold him and retained elliot tbh

58602[/snapback]

 

Dan,

 

I rate Hughes as a decent player actually. I know he's not top class, but I'd have had him in any of the back four positions last Saturday ahead of any of those individuals who occupied those 4 places. I also believe he's a better RB than Carr.

 

For Souness to sell a player who can play anywhere across the back at PL level was stupid quite frankly.

Edited November 21, 2005 by Howaythelads

[LeazesMag 0]

You can't expect players to come into the team and play at their peak beacuse quite simply the team isn't playing well.

The players that have been missing have certainly contributed to this but I think a lot of it comes down to the manager not having the ability to get them playing well.

He's had his chance to bring in his own faces and I don' t think he's doen too badly at all (Faye being the obvious exception and Boumsong the way he's playing too).  But is it really that difficult to sign decent players with the money he's had to spend?  How many people wouldn't have signed Owen, Parker and Solano given the money?  And we don't exactly have a scouting network at our disposal!

 

Anyway to bring this back to the topic, if we had Owen, Shearer, Luque, Dyer, Carr and Taylor available for Saturday and the season in general, I'm sure it would make a difference to the side and more importantly if we stopped picking up new injuries every week (I would say game but it rarely seems to be happening in games!) and could put out a settled team I think it would make a hell of a diffierence (we would still be let down by the managers lack of ability, just by a lesser extent).

 

And as for Dyer, I personally can't see any position where I would say I would play him ahead of anyone else at the moment.  But I think he is a valuable option and he could quite possibly force himself into any of the positions mentioned were he able to stay in the squad long enough.

58459[/snapback]

 

See the two bits in bold. You mention 6 players but they wouldn't have all played. It's far from certain that Carr would do anything better than Ramage, and Taylor has dropped numerous gaffs this season. Shearer is on his last legs, Luque still has to adjust. My point still stands, I think only Owen would make a significant difference from that lot.

 

I know people will moan at what I'm going to post now, but if we still had Bellamy, Robert and Hughes, along with Owen those players would make a difference imo.

58587[/snapback]

 

agree with you on most of that but surely not hughes? he's a decent squad player but no better imo than any of our current crop of defenders bar elliot, who is no where near the first team at the moment.

 

makes you wonder why souness sold him and retained elliot tbh

58602[/snapback]

 

Dan,

 

I rate Hughes as a decent player actually. I know he's not top class, but I'd have had him in any of the back four positions last Saturday ahead of any of those individuals who occupied those 4 places. I also believe he's a better RB than Carr.

 

For Souness to sell a player who can play anywhere across the back at PL level was stupid quite frankly.

58644[/snapback]

 

even more stupid than hear him then complain about having injuries and a small squad

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

because he spoke up for Bellamy ie he was in the Bellamy camp, and made his feelings known about his sale

58612[/snapback]

 

Is that right? I never knew that.

[Guest alex]

I reckon it's because Hughes was deemed (rightly or wrongly) not to be good enough and he was a player we could get a fee for. Simple as.

58613[/snapback]

 

 

no. What I say is true.

 

And, if the manager really thinks players such as Moore, Faye and Babayaro are better players to have at the club than Hughes, then it is just more ammunition to peddle him asap, although he's been here 14 months too long already.

58620[/snapback]

Do you know it's true or do you just reckon it's true? Not being funny, just interested.

[David Kelly 1260]

You can't expect players to come into the team and play at their peak beacuse quite simply the team isn't playing well.

The players that have been missing have certainly contributed to this but I think a lot of it comes down to the manager not having the ability to get them playing well.

He's had his chance to bring in his own faces and I don' t think he's doen too badly at all (Faye being the obvious exception and Boumsong the way he's playing too).  But is it really that difficult to sign decent players with the money he's had to spend?  How many people wouldn't have signed Owen, Parker and Solano given the money?  And we don't exactly have a scouting network at our disposal!

 

Anyway to bring this back to the topic, if we had Owen, Shearer, Luque, Dyer, Carr and Taylor available for Saturday and the season in general, I'm sure it would make a difference to the side and more importantly if we stopped picking up new injuries every week (I would say game but it rarely seems to be happening in games!) and could put out a settled team I think it would make a hell of a diffierence (we would still be let down by the managers lack of ability, just by a lesser extent).

 

And as for Dyer, I personally can't see any position where I would say I would play him ahead of anyone else at the moment.  But I think he is a valuable option and he could quite possibly force himself into any of the positions mentioned were he able to stay in the squad long enough.

58459[/snapback]

 

See the two bits in bold. You mention 6 players but they wouldn't have all played. It's far from certain that Carr would do anything better than Ramage, and Taylor has dropped numerous gaffs this season. Shearer is on his last legs, Luque still has to adjust. My point still stands, I think only Owen would make a significant difference from that lot.

 

I know people will moan at what I'm going to post now, but if we still had Bellamy, Robert and Hughes, along with Owen those players would make a difference imo.

58587[/snapback]

 

Firstly I never said they would all have been in the starting eleven on Saturday (although it's certian Shearer and Owen would have been and almost certain that Carr and Luque would have been) and secondly had those players been available I think it certainly would have made a difference. The experience of Shearer, Owen and Carr would have been good for the team, and I don't think anyone in their right mind can say that having Shearer, Luque & Dyer available wouldn't have given us more of a goal threat.

 

That said I was more making a point about the season as a whole than the Chelski game (one which I would have had little hope of us winning if we had our whole team) and like I said those players make us more of a threat.

 

I agree if we still had Bellamy with Owen and the other players we would have been more of a threat. I disagree about Robert though. I was a big supporter of Robert during his time here but the occasions where he pissed on that support far outweigh the occasions where he justified it (and that goes for when Robson was here just as much as when he played under the Souness).

As for Hughes, ever time he played against a decent winger he shat himself so I can't see him performing better than what Rammage has been reported to have played and I never rated him in the centre either. Wheter he would have made the mistakes that Bramble and Boumsong made on Saturday we'll never know but I'm cetainly not going to keep myself awake at night worrying about it.

[Guest alex]

Hasn't Hughes been shite for Villa too this season? My dad's mates with a Villa fan and we met him for a couple of drinks on Saturday afternoon and he reckons they've bought a reet turkey there. Robert's doing well at Pompey too isn't he?

[ChocChip 0]

Hughes would have done f**k all on Saturday and Robert would have done his best to give the ball away just as our fullbacks got into promising positions thus giving the opposition the perfect opportunity to counter-attack AGAIN.

 

If Shearer had played up front on his own he would have done no better than Ameobi.

 

Owen would have given their defence something to worry about. As for Luque, they probably know as little about him as we do so he could have at least surprised them.

[Guest alex]

If Bellamy had played though...

[Howaythelads 0]

Hughes would have done f**k all on Saturday and Robert would have done his best to give the ball away just as our fullbacks got into promising positions thus giving the opposition the perfect opportunity to counter-attack AGAIN.

 

If Shearer had played up front on his own he would have done no better than Ameobi.

 

Owen would have given their defence something to worry about. As for Luque, they probably know as little about him as we do so he could have at least surprised them.

58910[/snapback]

 

Good that you finally realised Souness has put together a shite squad, from 5th plus £50m. Pass the message on.

[Howaythelads 0]

Hasn't Hughes been shite for Villa too this season? My dad's mates with a Villa fan and we met him for a couple of drinks on Saturday afternoon and he reckons they've bought a reet turkey there. Robert's doing well at Pompey too isn't he?

58888[/snapback]

 

Flawed argument tbh.

 

Are you suggesting that because a player doesn't settle at another club, so doesn't play well, that he must have been shite for his previous club?

Edited November 22, 2005 by Howaythelads