The Falklands

[tooner 243]

the people of the islands consider themselves to be British. Whether you or I consider them to be British is not the point, they were invaded, and they were flying a British flag.

 

You don't half like slating us for defending our interests don't you ?

 

Interesting you put so much on perception of being British counting for so much - does that apply to Muslims as well then?

 

I've said before that all the military campaigns since WWII have been bollocks - sorry for not being blinded by the flag.

 

 

.....stop me if you've heard this one before......

Edited February 23, 2010 by tooner

[LeazesMag 0]

It was nothing to do with a forthcoming election. She got lucky in the aftermath, but it was because they invaded, pure and simple.

 

She deliberately withdrew the Endurance/Endeavour (can't remember which) to send a nice little hint.

 

In 78 they sabre rattled and Callahan sent a nuke sub and they backed down straight away.

 

Whatever the cunt was, she was an opportunist who saw the chance.

 

No doubt we'll get ultra-patriitoic bollocks in this thread about how it was oh so glorious. The bitch deliberately broke her rules of engagement to avoid having to sign the american peace deal and so she could "rejoice" in war.

 

It was far from "glorious" [shame on you for that].

 

Whatever you think of her [Thatcher], fact is that the junta were the ones with an election in mind, to deflect the Argie population away from rocketing inflation and a failing economy, and saw the Falklands as a prize to win them votes. We had no choice but to defend them.

 

The Labour party throughout the 1970's presided over massive defence cuts by the way.

Surely the whole point of a military junta is that you don't need to worry about elections They were concerned with their popularity (or lack of it) though. They only lasted another year after the war.

 

Sorry Alex that is right, it was popularity, and yes Galtieri was soon ousted [because they lost]

[NJS 4375]

Where you think we would be without our Armed Forces.......you really think everybody in the world is, errr, civilised and fair

 

After WWII I'd imagine not spending obscene amounts on defence would have meant having an economy as strong as say Germany or Japan.

[LeazesMag 0]

the people of the islands consider themselves to be British. Whether you or I consider them to be British is not the point, they were invaded, and they were flying a British flag.

 

You don't half like slating us for defending our interests don't you ?

 

Interesting you put so much on perception of being British counting for so much - does that apply to Muslims as well then?

 

I've said before that all the military campaigns since WWII have been bollocks - sorry for not being blinded by the flag.

 

bollocks in your opinion.

 

Find it quite unbelievable you say this, your faith in human nature is astonishing. What brainwashed left winger has told you everybody in the world is "nice"

 

[LeazesMag 0]

Where you think we would be without our Armed Forces.......you really think everybody in the world is, errr, civilised and fair

 

After WWII I'd imagine not spending obscene amounts on defence would have meant having an economy as strong as say Germany or Japan.

 

what utter tosh.

[Guest alex]

It was nothing to do with a forthcoming election. She got lucky in the aftermath, but it was because they invaded, pure and simple.

 

She deliberately withdrew the Endurance/Endeavour (can't remember which) to send a nice little hint.

 

In 78 they sabre rattled and Callahan sent a nuke sub and they backed down straight away.

 

Whatever the cunt was, she was an opportunist who saw the chance.

 

No doubt we'll get ultra-patriitoic bollocks in this thread about how it was oh so glorious. The bitch deliberately broke her rules of engagement to avoid having to sign the american peace deal and so she could "rejoice" in war.

 

It was far from "glorious" [shame on you for that].

 

Whatever you think of her [Thatcher], fact is that the junta were the ones with an election in mind, to deflect the Argie population away from rocketing inflation and a failing economy, and saw the Falklands as a prize to win them votes. We had no choice but to defend them.

 

The Labour party throughout the 1970's presided over massive defence cuts by the way.

Surely the whole point of a military junta is that you don't need to worry about elections They were concerned with their popularity (or lack of it) though. They only lasted another year after the war.

 

Sorry Alex that is right, it was popularity, and yes Galtieri was soon ousted [because they lost]

Probably only hurried along the inevitable and was probably a good thing in that sense. Stupid fucking war which could have been avoided however. I do support our fighting the war once it was invaded though. You basically had a military dictatorship taking over land where British people had lived for generations. I do agree with NJS though that the door was left open for the Argentinians. It's difficult even for someone as cynical as me to know how deliberate or not that was. Either way, the jingoistic orchestrated response to the victory doesn't sit well with me at all.

[NJS 4375]

Where you think we would be without our Armed Forces.......you really think everybody in the world is, errr, civilised and fair

 

After WWII I'd imagine not spending obscene amounts on defence would have meant having an economy as strong as say Germany or Japan.

 

what utter tosh.

 

 

What have we gained frrm 60 years of armed forces spending?

[NJS 4375]

Find it quite unbelievable you say this, your faith in human nature is astonishing. What brainwashed left winger has told you everybody in the world is "nice"

 

I don't think its nice - I just think its a waste of time , effort and money for this country tryiing to sort out the shit.

[LeazesMag 0]

It was nothing to do with a forthcoming election. She got lucky in the aftermath, but it was because they invaded, pure and simple.

 

She deliberately withdrew the Endurance/Endeavour (can't remember which) to send a nice little hint.

 

In 78 they sabre rattled and Callahan sent a nuke sub and they backed down straight away.

 

Whatever the cunt was, she was an opportunist who saw the chance.

 

No doubt we'll get ultra-patriitoic bollocks in this thread about how it was oh so glorious. The bitch deliberately broke her rules of engagement to avoid having to sign the american peace deal and so she could "rejoice" in war.

 

It was far from "glorious" [shame on you for that].

 

Whatever you think of her [Thatcher], fact is that the junta were the ones with an election in mind, to deflect the Argie population away from rocketing inflation and a failing economy, and saw the Falklands as a prize to win them votes. We had no choice but to defend them.

 

The Labour party throughout the 1970's presided over massive defence cuts by the way.

Surely the whole point of a military junta is that you don't need to worry about elections They were concerned with their popularity (or lack of it) though. They only lasted another year after the war.

 

Sorry Alex that is right, it was popularity, and yes Galtieri was soon ousted [because they lost]

Probably only hurried along the inevitable and was probably a good thing in that sense. Stupid fucking war which could have been avoided however. I do support our fighting the war once it was invaded though. You basically had a military dictatorship taking over land where British people had lived for generations. I do agree with NJS though that the door was left open for the Argentinians. It's difficult even for someone as cynical as me to know how deliberate or not that was. Either way, the jingoistic orchestrated response to the victory doesn't sit well with me at all.

 

it certainly should have been avoided, it will happen again, especially if they are not defended properly too. It happened because of decreasing defence capability. Maybe people like NJS are in favour of just handing it over.

 

 

Maybe it would encourage the Spanish to attack Gib, when they see us being so weak kneed and giving in to aggression .. "to save money and hassle"

[LeazesMag 0]

Find it quite unbelievable you say this, your faith in human nature is astonishing. What brainwashed left winger has told you everybody in the world is "nice"

 

I don't think its nice - I just think its a waste of time , effort and money for this country tryiing to sort out the shit.

 

you gotta defend yourself from the bad guys, its just human nature.

 

You don't understand this do you.

[Guest alex]

It was nothing to do with a forthcoming election. She got lucky in the aftermath, but it was because they invaded, pure and simple.

 

She deliberately withdrew the Endurance/Endeavour (can't remember which) to send a nice little hint.

 

In 78 they sabre rattled and Callahan sent a nuke sub and they backed down straight away.

 

Whatever the cunt was, she was an opportunist who saw the chance.

 

No doubt we'll get ultra-patriitoic bollocks in this thread about how it was oh so glorious. The bitch deliberately broke her rules of engagement to avoid having to sign the american peace deal and so she could "rejoice" in war.

 

It was far from "glorious" [shame on you for that].

 

Whatever you think of her [Thatcher], fact is that the junta were the ones with an election in mind, to deflect the Argie population away from rocketing inflation and a failing economy, and saw the Falklands as a prize to win them votes. We had no choice but to defend them.

 

The Labour party throughout the 1970's presided over massive defence cuts by the way.

Surely the whole point of a military junta is that you don't need to worry about elections They were concerned with their popularity (or lack of it) though. They only lasted another year after the war.

 

Sorry Alex that is right, it was popularity, and yes Galtieri was soon ousted [because they lost]

Probably only hurried along the inevitable and was probably a good thing in that sense. Stupid fucking war which could have been avoided however. I do support our fighting the war once it was invaded though. You basically had a military dictatorship taking over land where British people had lived for generations. I do agree with NJS though that the door was left open for the Argentinians. It's difficult even for someone as cynical as me to know how deliberate or not that was. Either way, the jingoistic orchestrated response to the victory doesn't sit well with me at all.

 

it certainly should have been avoided, it will happen again, especially if they are not defended properly too. It happened because of decreasing defence capability. Maybe people like NJS are in favour of just handing it over.

 

 

Maybe it would encourage the Spanish to attack Gib, when they see us being so weak kneed and giving in to aggression .. "to save money and hassle"

You see, I think you can have a much more pragmatic defence budget and still easily defend places like the Falklands. All you have to do is stop trying to be America's best buddy in their quest to police the world.

[LeazesMag 0]

Where you think we would be without our Armed Forces.......you really think everybody in the world is, errr, civilised and fair

 

After WWII I'd imagine not spending obscene amounts on defence would have meant having an economy as strong as say Germany or Japan.

 

what utter tosh.

 

 

What have we gained frrm 60 years of armed forces spending?

 

What do you think we could have lost if not just us, but the whole of western europe hadn't had defence capability ?

 

Its our deterrent man, not the other way round.

[NJS 4375]

Find it quite unbelievable you say this, your faith in human nature is astonishing. What brainwashed left winger has told you everybody in the world is "nice"

 

I don't think its nice - I just think its a waste of time , effort and money for this country tryiing to sort out the shit.

 

you gotta defend yourself from the bad guys, its just human nature.

 

You don't understand this do you.

 

So what did Korea, Suez, Vietnam, Malaysia, Kenya and Iraq (Twice) have to do with defending us from the bad guys?

[NJS 4375]

What do you think we could have lost if not just us, but the whole of western europe hadn't had defence capability ?

 

Its our deterrent man, not the other way round.

 

Should have left it to the Yanks - the independent deterrent was always shite - there are many countries in Europe that weren't invaded who had no deterrent apart from the general NATO umbrella.

[LeazesMag 0]

Find it quite unbelievable you say this, your faith in human nature is astonishing. What brainwashed left winger has told you everybody in the world is "nice"

 

I don't think its nice - I just think its a waste of time , effort and money for this country tryiing to sort out the shit.

 

you gotta defend yourself from the bad guys, its just human nature.

 

You don't understand this do you.

 

So what did Korea, Suez, Vietnam, Malaysia, Kenya and Iraq (Twice) have to do with defending us from the bad guys?

 

So you think we should just let them do as they like ? LIke Cuba, which you missed out.

 

Iraq has been discussed, I still can't believe people think we should have allowed Iraq to carry on as they were going under Saddam.

[LeazesMag 0]

What do you think we could have lost if not just us, but the whole of western europe hadn't had defence capability ?

 

Its our deterrent man, not the other way round.

 

Should have left it to the Yanks - the independent deterrent was always shite - there are many countries in Europe that weren't invaded who had no deterrent apart from the general NATO umbrella.

 

 

it was enough wasn't it ?

[NJS 4375]

Maybe people like NJS are in favour of just handing it over.

 

It would have been less hassle to fly the Islanders to the UK and left it to the Argies. There are vast tracts of the old empire that have been given up in the last century.

 

There is precedent by the way for an eviction/abandonment - - that's what we did with Diego Garcia - of course that was a favour for the Yanks so it was okay.

[NJS 4375]

Find it quite unbelievable you say this, your faith in human nature is astonishing. What brainwashed left winger has told you everybody in the world is "nice"

 

I don't think its nice - I just think its a waste of time , effort and money for this country tryiing to sort out the shit.

 

you gotta defend yourself from the bad guys, its just human nature.

 

You don't understand this do you.

 

So what did Korea, Suez, Vietnam, Malaysia, Kenya and Iraq (Twice) have to do with defending us from the bad guys?

 

So you think we should just let them do as they like ? LIke Cuba, which you missed out.

 

Iraq has been discussed, I still can't believe people think we should have allowed Iraq to carry on as they were going under Saddam.

 

I listed those which specifically involved the UK which were a waste of time.

 

Saddam was okay when he was invading Iran.

[NJS 4375]

What do you think we could have lost if not just us, but the whole of western europe hadn't had defence capability ?

 

Its our deterrent man, not the other way round.

 

Should have left it to the Yanks - the independent deterrent was always shite - there are many countries in Europe that weren't invaded who had no deterrent apart from the general NATO umbrella.

 

 

it was enough wasn't it ?

 

For whom?

 

Hungary and Checkoslovakia are hardly Italy and Spain are they?

[LeazesMag 0]

Find it quite unbelievable you say this, your faith in human nature is astonishing. What brainwashed left winger has told you everybody in the world is "nice"

 

I don't think its nice - I just think its a waste of time , effort and money for this country tryiing to sort out the shit.

 

you gotta defend yourself from the bad guys, its just human nature.

 

You don't understand this do you.

 

So what did Korea, Suez, Vietnam, Malaysia, Kenya and Iraq (Twice) have to do with defending us from the bad guys?

 

So you think we should just let them do as they like ? LIke Cuba, which you missed out.

 

Iraq has been discussed, I still can't believe people think we should have allowed Iraq to carry on as they were going under Saddam.

 

I listed those which specifically involved the UK which were a waste of time.

 

Saddam was okay when he was invading Iran.

 

Whatever, maybe that is the case. Its a changing world, and the defence industry is just like any other. People manufacture and sell weapons to countries prepared to use them. Some wish to use them aggressively, others for a deterrent and to try and keep order.

 

You obviously think the middle eastern countries are the good guys.

[tooner 243]

Find it quite unbelievable you say this, your faith in human nature is astonishing. What brainwashed left winger has told you everybody in the world is "nice"

 

I don't think its nice - I just think its a waste of time , effort and money for this country tryiing to sort out the shit.

 

you gotta defend yourself from the bad guys, its just human nature.

 

You don't understand this do you.

 

So what did Korea, Suez, Vietnam, Malaysia, Kenya and Iraq (Twice) have to do with defending us from the bad guys?

 

So you think we should just let them do as they like ? LIke Cuba, which you missed out.

 

Iraq has been discussed, I still can't believe people think we should have allowed Iraq to carry on as they were going under Saddam.

 

I listed those which specifically involved the UK which were a waste of time.

 

Saddam was okay when he was invading Iran.

 

 

This is what is really wrong with military backed foreign policy. While I would agree that a big stick is necessary to ward off those that would do harm to domestic interests, it's the tinkering and tampering with struggles that seem to be aligned (at least temporarily) with international interests that start trouble. (see afghanistan and Iraq)

Edited February 23, 2010 by tooner

[LeazesMag 0]

What do you think we could have lost if not just us, but the whole of western europe hadn't had defence capability ?

 

Its our deterrent man, not the other way round.

 

Should have left it to the Yanks - the independent deterrent was always shite - there are many countries in Europe that weren't invaded who had no deterrent apart from the general NATO umbrella.

 

 

it was enough wasn't it ?

 

For whom?

 

Hungary and Checkoslovakia are hardly Italy and Spain are they?

 

eerrm, no. They were part of the eastern [ie soviet] bloc ? Of course, the Russians had no ambition to extend it further did they .......

[tooner 243]

Find it quite unbelievable you say this, your faith in human nature is astonishing. What brainwashed left winger has told you everybody in the world is "nice"

 

I don't think its nice - I just think its a waste of time , effort and money for this country tryiing to sort out the shit.

 

you gotta defend yourself from the bad guys, its just human nature.

 

You don't understand this do you.

 

So what did Korea, Suez, Vietnam, Malaysia, Kenya and Iraq (Twice) have to do with defending us from the bad guys?

 

So you think we should just let them do as they like ? LIke Cuba, which you missed out.

 

Iraq has been discussed, I still can't believe people think we should have allowed Iraq to carry on as they were going under Saddam.

 

I listed those which specifically involved the UK which were a waste of time.

 

Saddam was okay when he was invading Iran.

 

Whatever, maybe that is the case. Its a changing world, and the defence industry is just like any other. People manufacture and sell weapons to countries prepared to use them. Some wish to use them aggressively, others for a deterrent and to try and keep order.

 

You obviously think the middle eastern countries are the good guys.

....are they....bad?

[Park Life 71]

"A British company, Desire Petroleum, has hired the rig to drill prospects in the North Falkland basin and will later lease it to two other British companies and an Australian one – Rockhopper, and Falklands Oil and Gas; and BHP Billiton – which also have exploration contracts. They will use the rig in rotation throughout 2010."

 

It needs to be worked out who's going to benefit from this. Are the soldiers who die to save Tax haven based oil companies arses going to get shares? Is Britain actually going to benefit in a concrete manner and I'm not talking 3p on the barrel etc...IMO we shouldn't be out there fighting for oil which isn't going to benefit us at all. It's time Govt stopped doing the fighting for big business. If BP want oil there or Rockhopper let them fight for it.

People get so easily drawn into this kind of shit with no idea if it actually will benefit us in any concrete way whatsoever.

[Park Life 71]

I can see that has confused everyone.