Things are looking up!

[peasepud 59]

I still think the recession is a handy little get out for the fat man.

 

The recession isnt whats stopping us filling our ground, its the opposition.

 

The recession isnt wholly to blame for the lack of corporate boxes sold, yes it has impacted but again, companies dont want to fork out £30k to take customers to see Preston North End. Its not exactly a deal maker.

 

Its relegation not recession thats cut our income and the recession was not responsible for us being relegated.

[Andrew 4857]

well on the tour the guide fella said in the CCC the revenue made for boxes etc is just about half what we got in the PL

[ChezGiven 0]

Did the recession stop him from appointing a decent manager after KK left?

[Guest alex]

I still think the recession is a handy little get out for the fat man.

 

The recession isnt whats stopping us filling our ground, its the opposition.

 

The recession isnt wholly to blame for the lack of corporate boxes sold, yes it has impacted but again, companies dont want to fork out £30k to take customers to see Preston North End. Its not exactly a deal maker.

 

Its relegation not recession thats cut our income and the recession was not responsible for us being relegated.

I think what he's saying is though that recession etc. has severely cut the amount of spare cash Ashley has hanging around. That said, the thing that really restricted this more than anything was tying up so much capital unnecessarily in clearing the debts with one fell swoop. Absolutely no need to do this and it compounded our problems last January, when we needed a quality player or two coming in and it also meant the impact of relegation was that bit greater imo.

[Guest alex]

Did the recession stop him from appointing a decent manager after KK left?

No, that was the fans.

[peasepud 59]

I still think the recession is a handy little get out for the fat man.

 

The recession isnt whats stopping us filling our ground, its the opposition.

 

The recession isnt wholly to blame for the lack of corporate boxes sold, yes it has impacted but again, companies dont want to fork out £30k to take customers to see Preston North End. Its not exactly a deal maker.

 

Its relegation not recession thats cut our income and the recession was not responsible for us being relegated.

I think what he's saying is though that recession etc. has severely cut the amount of spare cash Ashley has hanging around. That said, the thing that really restricted this more than anything was tying up so much capital unnecessarily in clearing the debts with one fell swoop. Absolutely no need to do this and it compounded our problems last January, when we needed a quality player or two coming in and it also meant the impact of relegation was that bit greater imo.

 

By his own admission though, Ashley only ever intended to invest £20m per year in the club, using that on top of any profit made to fund purchases etc.

 

Nobody can tell me that a man worth £800m following the impact of the recession could see that as a problem.

[Guest alex]

I still think the recession is a handy little get out for the fat man.

 

The recession isnt whats stopping us filling our ground, its the opposition.

 

The recession isnt wholly to blame for the lack of corporate boxes sold, yes it has impacted but again, companies dont want to fork out £30k to take customers to see Preston North End. Its not exactly a deal maker.

 

Its relegation not recession thats cut our income and the recession was not responsible for us being relegated.

I think what he's saying is though that recession etc. has severely cut the amount of spare cash Ashley has hanging around. That said, the thing that really restricted this more than anything was tying up so much capital unnecessarily in clearing the debts with one fell swoop. Absolutely no need to do this and it compounded our problems last January, when we needed a quality player or two coming in and it also meant the impact of relegation was that bit greater imo.

 

By his own admission though, Ashley only ever intended to invest £20m per year in the club, using that on top of any profit made to fund purchases etc.

 

Nobody can tell me that a man worth £800m following the impact of the recession could see that as a problem.

Tbh I saw that comment as a spiteful 'look what you could have won' anyway.

[Phil 6]

I still think the recession is a handy little get out for the fat man.

 

The recession isnt whats stopping us filling our ground, its the opposition.

 

The recession isnt wholly to blame for the lack of corporate boxes sold, yes it has impacted but again, companies dont want to fork out £30k to take customers to see Preston North End. Its not exactly a deal maker.

 

Its relegation not recession thats cut our income and the recession was not responsible for us being relegated.

I think what he's saying is though that recession etc. has severely cut the amount of spare cash Ashley has hanging around. That said, the thing that really restricted this more than anything was tying up so much capital unnecessarily in clearing the debts with one fell swoop. Absolutely no need to do this and it compounded our problems last January, when we needed a quality player or two coming in and it also meant the impact of relegation was that bit greater imo.

 

I think i recall reading debt had to be paid off because the mortgage on the ground expansion was non-transferable.

 

edit: yeah that was the thing the two fatties were having a go at each other over;

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/se....premierleague1

Edited February 23, 2010 by Phil

[peasepud 59]

I still think the recession is a handy little get out for the fat man.

 

The recession isnt whats stopping us filling our ground, its the opposition.

 

The recession isnt wholly to blame for the lack of corporate boxes sold, yes it has impacted but again, companies dont want to fork out £30k to take customers to see Preston North End. Its not exactly a deal maker.

 

Its relegation not recession thats cut our income and the recession was not responsible for us being relegated.

I think what he's saying is though that recession etc. has severely cut the amount of spare cash Ashley has hanging around. That said, the thing that really restricted this more than anything was tying up so much capital unnecessarily in clearing the debts with one fell swoop. Absolutely no need to do this and it compounded our problems last January, when we needed a quality player or two coming in and it also meant the impact of relegation was that bit greater imo.

 

I think i recall reading debt had to be paid off because the mortgage on the ground expansion was non-transferable.

 

That wasnt all of it though, Im sure it was only about £60m??? the rest he decided to pay off without any actual urgent need.

 

Plus people seem to often ignore the fact that he paid off debts in the form of loans then increased the overdraft which came at a much higher % rate.

[Guest alex]

I still think the recession is a handy little get out for the fat man.

 

The recession isnt whats stopping us filling our ground, its the opposition.

 

The recession isnt wholly to blame for the lack of corporate boxes sold, yes it has impacted but again, companies dont want to fork out £30k to take customers to see Preston North End. Its not exactly a deal maker.

 

Its relegation not recession thats cut our income and the recession was not responsible for us being relegated.

I think what he's saying is though that recession etc. has severely cut the amount of spare cash Ashley has hanging around. That said, the thing that really restricted this more than anything was tying up so much capital unnecessarily in clearing the debts with one fell swoop. Absolutely no need to do this and it compounded our problems last January, when we needed a quality player or two coming in and it also meant the impact of relegation was that bit greater imo.

 

I think i recall reading debt had to be paid off because the mortgage on the ground expansion was non-transferable.

That was only part of the debt, surely.

[Phil 6]

Nah, that was the only issue. Ashley's money men missed it during due dilligence.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/se....premierleague1

[peasepud 59]

Nah, that was the only issue. Ashley's money men missed it during due dilligence.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/se....premierleague1

 

That was the only shock to him, he knew how much the debt was, he merely wasnt told that some of it was payable following any sale of the club. He then decided to pay off the bank loan(s) as well.

 

imo merely to make the club more attractive to potential buyers.

[Guest alex]

Nah, that was the only issue. Ashley's money men missed it during due dilligence.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/se....premierleague1

That was the only debt that had to be paid upfront. My point was about paying off debt and tying up loads of capital unnecessarily. Due dilligence never took place btw.

[Guest alex]

Anyway, I don't think I could ever trust the cunt. Him (or Llambias - same difference) were saying Keegan had money available for the players he wanted etc. in August 2008 (remember that brochure/statement thingy the club issued?) while they were bringing in / selling players behind the manager's back. Not wanting to bring up the KK issue again but blatant lies like that tell me all I need to know about Ashley. If he'd been upfront and honest with the fans, he wouldn't have made such a rod for his own back but I bet he can't lie straight in bed.

[Renton 22001]

I still think the recession is a handy little get out for the fat man.

 

The recession isnt whats stopping us filling our ground, its the opposition.

 

The recession isnt wholly to blame for the lack of corporate boxes sold, yes it has impacted but again, companies dont want to fork out £30k to take customers to see Preston North End. Its not exactly a deal maker.

 

Its relegation not recession thats cut our income and the recession was not responsible for us being relegated.

 

Like I've said, we were nearly relegated under the Halls and Shepherd though, we were one reversal away iirc. That's not to detract from the supreme achievement of Ashley last year mind, getting JFK was a masterstroke.

[peasepud 59]

getting JFK was a masterstroke.

That in itself is enough for me.

[Guest alex]

I don't know if you remember but at the time Kinnear was at pains to point out that (as well letting us know he wasn't a Cockney) he didn't have a connection with Dennis Wise as the latter had left Wimbledon before Kinnear took over there. That was obviously meant to make us feel better but, if anything, I thought it was even worse. Fancy picking Joe Kinnear out of all the possible managers available when he didn't even have a footballing connection with Wise or whoever

[LeazesMag 0]

Its all well and good criticising for going into debt because you want to push for success but the simple fact is that unless unless you have a sugar daddy then its the only way to do it.

 

People who are saying that we have swept the boards and can "rebuild" don't get it, when the time comes to go for success again, IF it comes, they are just going to have to go into debt again and just like last time no guarantee whatsoever that it will succeed. Relatively speaking, we actually did very well ie we had regular european football, 2 FA Cup Finals, lots of top quality players, but didn't even win the League Cup.

 

Personally, I blame the players for not performing in certain games, and the manager for picking wrong teams and tactics in certain games, but in no way whatsoever can I blame the board who fulfilled their part completeley by backing all their managers to the hilt and having teams good enough to have won something.

 

I think you're spot on tbh leazes

 

 

I don't. I remember that summer. We felt like we were closing in on something special. A couple of big players and we're challengers.

 

We signed Lee Bowyer.

 

From there... downhill.

 

 

We signed Woodgate in the January 2003 for 9m quid, instead of the summer when we may have had serious competition and the price would have gone up accordingly. Out of the budget, or forward planning, or whatever you want to call it.

 

I hope you aren't going to criticise them for not spending money they didn't have during that summer, instead of trying to continue to build while exercising sensible financial constraints ?

 

So you're saying it's sensible to not spend money we don't have after a season when we've just qualified for the Champions League, but acceptable to do so when not in the Champions League and Souness is our manager?

 

 

Sigh.

 

They back their chosen appointment. Understand ? Why would you appoint a manager then choose not to back him...errrmm....we have an owner now who does that very thing, unfortunately. In any walk of life, you appoint someone to a job and back him. Don't you ?

 

Get it ? Probably not.

[Guest alex]

TBF though, backing Souness just compounded a massive error, however good the intentions of the Halls and Shepherd may have been at the time. The road to Hell and all that.

[LeazesMag 0]

The high wage bills and our league positions are well documented, so it aint a myth.

 

the high wage bills and high league position come together as part of the package. If you want high league positions you have to pay high wages.

 

The myth I am talking about is that the club signed over the hill players, didn't sign young players of potential at the time with their best years ahead of them, and don't dispute it or I will supply a big list to prove my point.

 

Yes when you are in Europe the high wage bill is offset by earnings. We were not in Europe.

 

There are two clear sides to Freddies time at the club, 2004 - 2007 is when the nay sayers widely believe the rot started, note 2005 - 2007 we started to make a loss, which with our debts made spending our way out imposible.

 

 

Here are most of the big signings in that time and you believe this sh*te justified the wage bill we had??

 

Mark Viduka

Joey Barton

Geremi

Alan Smith

Damien Duff

Obafemi Martins

Antoine Sibierski

Celestine Babayaro

Jean Alain Boumsong

Amdy Faye

Scott Parker

Emre Belozoglu

Albert Luque

Michael Owen

 

 

We had £70m debt a spiriling wage bill and had run out of credit lines, so we had to hire Fat Sam. Who regardless of your thoughts on Freddie - was a bad appointment and there no way freddie would have kept him playing that brand of football.

 

With a shoestring budget which was largley servicing debt, so there was only one way we were going. If not down last season it would be 2010 or 2011. Either way i think we'll be in a better poisition next year under Ashley than we would under Fred.

 

a canny few of those would get into the current team, and we would not have been relegated with some of the sold players not on the list either.

 

My question was about the myth that we never bought players who were young and would in the managers judgement improve. We are also supposed to have signed nothing but "trophy" or "hollywood" players. How many can you name ?

 

I don't think we will be in a better position under Ashley than the Halls and Shepherd by the way - I see you are still totally ignoring the fact that Shepherd never had control so was unable to do anything without it being sanctioned by others.

Edited February 23, 2010 by LeazesMag

[LeazesMag 0]

TBF though, backing Souness just compounded a massive error, however good the intentions of the Halls and Shepherd may have been at the time. The road to Hell and all that.

 

yes, but it was their appointment. You back your appointment or sack him. They sacked him, too late, but they still backed him.

 

As for this bollocks about signing players he didn't want, Souness is a lot of things but he isn't a yes man. He had the same option as Keegan did if it were true.

 

He's a liar, the same as the comments in my sig, and the same as the comments he has made about being given 50m quid to "tart up the team". What sort of shite is that ? I wish sky would get somebody in the studio with him to take him up on that remark instead of pampering and pandering to the arrogant jock cunt. And also to pose the question as to how he thinks "proper managers" get the best out of players such as Craig Bellamy, Andy Cole, Dwight Yorke etc ....

[Barney 0]

TBF though, backing Souness just compounded a massive error, however good the intentions of the Halls and Shepherd may have been at the time. The road to Hell and all that.

 

Didn't Souness say though that he wanted Anelka and Boa Morte at Newcastle, to play 4-3-3(the reason Bellamy's nose was out of joint), but instead got Owen and Luque? Not full backing imo.

[LeazesMag 0]

Given Ashley's reputation and a gambling man, I think it is unfortunate that the recession struck when it did. As well as shocking mismanagement I think the downturn in the economy genuinely impacted upon player purchasing and wages policy. If we were still in boomtime Ashley would probably be a bit more exciting as an owner.

 

I don't.

[LeazesMag 0]

TBF though, backing Souness just compounded a massive error, however good the intentions of the Halls and Shepherd may have been at the time. The road to Hell and all that.

 

Didn't Souness say though that he wanted Anelka and Boa Morte at Newcastle, to play 4-3-3(the reason Bellamy's nose was out of joint), but instead got Owen and Luque? Not full backing imo.

 

Don't you think he's told enough dodgy comments already ? Fact is, at Owen's press conference, he said he gave a slip of paper to Fred with the name of the player he most wanted and it was Owen. Which is true ?

 

The biggest and most ironic thing about this statement, is that Anelka wouldn't have lasted a month with souness, Souness would have isolated him as soon as he sulked.

 

The daft bastard only wanted Boa Morte [so he says] because he washed his hands of Robert ala Bellamy, but wasn't he pleased with Luque instead ? Do you believe him ? I don't believe a word he says personally.

Edited February 23, 2010 by LeazesMag

[Guest alex]

TBF though, backing Souness just compounded a massive error, however good the intentions of the Halls and Shepherd may have been at the time. The road to Hell and all that.

 

yes, but it was their appointment. You back your appointment or sack him. They sacked him, too late, but they still backed him.

 

As for this bollocks about signing players he didn't want, Souness is a lot of things but he isn't a yes man. He had the same option as Keegan did if it were true.

 

He's a liar, the same as the comments in my sig, and the same as the comments he has made about being given 50m quid to "tart up the team". What sort of shite is that ? I wish sky would get somebody in the studio with him to take him up on that remark instead of pampering and pandering to the arrogant jock cunt. And also to pose the question as to how he thinks "proper managers" get the best out of players such as Craig Bellamy, Andy Cole, Dwight Yorke etc ....

I think you know I sort of agree anyway. Just making the point that 'backing' a mistake can make things worse. I don't think the club's ever recovered from that little spending spree tbh (not excusing anything post-Shepherd btw). I totally agree about Souness and not being taken to task about what he did in his time here. I think he's basically a 'my way or the high way' bully who is a dinosaur in the modern game with player power etc. I think there may well have been something in the story about him wanting Boa Morte and getting Luque though.