Premier League plans play-off for last Champions League place

[ewerk 31201]

Would dividing the PL money equally make such a massive difference though? IIRC the bottom club get £10m less than the Champions so to divide it equally would only make a difference of £5m to each, it's not likely to see the financial gap disappear.

[Happy Face 29]

It might just be me, but I'd love to see the likes of Villa, Everton, or even Spurs (whom I hate) knock out Liverpool from the Champions League, thus compounding their financial predicament.

 

But is that a desire for a particular outcome or is it a desire for the actual format? How would you feel if Liverpool finished 7th but won the play off thus qualifying them for the CL when 3 teams who finished above them don't....?

 

It's not often I agree with Collymore but he was ranting about it on Talksport this evening. His basic argument was what was the point in having a league if come the end of it, you have a lottery to see who finishes where. He also said that the Champions League should be for the League Champions and them alone claiming that Arsenal and Liverpool have developed squads in order for them to finish in the top 4 rather than aiming necessarily for the title.

 

What Toonpack said earlier in the thread is spot on - divide the money up equally and there's no need for any of this carry on.

 

The NFL in the US have it spot on....equal share for all and the worst clubs get the best kids. They don't have relegation though, but that would make the league a true test of managerial skill iof teams were on a lot more of an equal footing..strange that the country who virtually invented global capitlism should be so "socialist" when it comes to sport. Also the "Superbowl" is just the "Superbowl", not the "Superbowl in association with eon, or doritos, or pepsi etc etc".... They sell everything else, but the name of the main title is sacred...not like the FA cup...

 

 

I don't think that's true. The worst team gets 1st pick but better teams trade off older players for the prospects and that's why the new franchise teams don't suddenly challenge for the title the following year. Draft picks benefit the top tier who trade out their "Teddy Sheringham"s for "Wayne Rooney"s and the middle tier who trade out Kevin Phillips for Gabriel Agbonlahor but the meek shall never inherit a God damn thing.

 

The Americans have got a shit sport. That's all

Yeah there are ways around the best laid plans.But the Superbowl last month shows what can be acheived....New Orleans have never done fuck all historically, but there time in the cycle has come eventually. I cant see that happening in this country too often in the future, but you alwways stand a chance in the NFL.

 

The game itself isnt great, but the leagues works a lot better than our current shambles.....

 

And didnt Carolina and Tenessee get to the Superbowl within a few years of their franchaise starting?...were Baltimore an expansion team as well?...they won it..and there hasnt been a promoted side in over 30 years who have won the league the next season in England so its not really common here either, however much money theyve thrown at it, us being the chief culprits with that.

 

Is it a good thing when every kid gets a prize on sports day?

[Craig 6700]

Tell you what hasn't really been considered and if this has been mentioned already and I've missed it, apologies.

 

Say a team like Birmingham, Blackburn, Stoke, Sunderland Wigan, etc have a better than average season and finish 7th and that by some chance, they win the play-off and qualify for the CL. With the greatest respect in the world to them, would you consider those clubs to be properly equipped for a successful Champions League campaign? You have to answer probably not.

 

Is there a good chance they'll be knocked out in the qualifying rounds and not make it to the 1st round proper? Yes, a very good chance.

 

The result of this scenario would be that, as a country we'd not gain as many 'UEFA points' and therefore our co-efficient would take an absolute hammering. The ultimate result may be that UEFA withdraws our 4th Champions League place - something we're very privileged to have as I believe only Italy and Spain besides us have as many places (stand to be corrected on that one if necessary).

 

So ultimately we could end up with a play-off for a CL place that we no longer possess.

[ewerk 31201]

Tell you what hasn't really been considered and if this has been mentioned already and I've missed it, apologies.

 

Say a team like Birmingham, Blackburn, Stoke, Sunderland Wigan, etc have a better than average season and finish 7th and that by some chance, they win the play-off and qualify for the CL. With the greatest respect in the world to them, would you consider those clubs to be properly equipped for a successful Champions League campaign? You have to answer probably not.

 

Is there a good chance they'll be knocked out in the qualifying rounds and not make it to the 1st round proper? Yes, a very good chance.

 

The result of this scenario would be that, as a country we'd not gain as many 'UEFA points' and therefore our co-efficient would take an absolute hammering. The ultimate result may be that UEFA withdraws our 4th Champions League place - something we're very privileged to have as I believe only Italy and Spain besides us have as many places (stand to be corrected on that one if necessary).

 

So ultimately we could end up with a play-off for a CL place that we no longer possess.

 

So only the already rich should be allowed to compete in the CL? Can you see how the play-off idea would reduce some of the barriers to the smaller clubs being able to compete with the Big 4?

[Guest alex]

I can see the likes of Man Utd wanting to go the other way and negotiating their own TV rights, probably with live internet streams. Millions of worldwide fans at a fiver a match = goodbye debt. They might struggle to get it past some of the PL sides like but I can see it coming nonetheless.

[blackandwhiteboy 0]

It has definitely come to a point where the Champions League is of far greater importance than any domestic leagues and so that is where every club wants to be. The new suggestions would make it interesting come the end of the season but i fear we would lose the intense five-way battle scenario for fourth spot in the Premier League that we have now. This is the first season where the traditional big four are being put under pressure by a group of other clubs and i think it has made the Premier League more entertaining this season. I cannot see this being introduced though as it would extend the season and then what is going to happen in World Cup and Euro Championship years, the season would only just be over as the players were boarding the plane. I always thought it would be good for the FA Cup winners to be given a Champions League spot rather than the team who finishes in fourth place.

[Craig 6700]

Tell you what hasn't really been considered and if this has been mentioned already and I've missed it, apologies.

 

Say a team like Birmingham, Blackburn, Stoke, Sunderland Wigan, etc have a better than average season and finish 7th and that by some chance, they win the play-off and qualify for the CL. With the greatest respect in the world to them, would you consider those clubs to be properly equipped for a successful Champions League campaign? You have to answer probably not.

 

Is there a good chance they'll be knocked out in the qualifying rounds and not make it to the 1st round proper? Yes, a very good chance.

 

The result of this scenario would be that, as a country we'd not gain as many 'UEFA points' and therefore our co-efficient would take an absolute hammering. The ultimate result may be that UEFA withdraws our 4th Champions League place - something we're very privileged to have as I believe only Italy and Spain besides us have as many places (stand to be corrected on that one if necessary).

 

So ultimately we could end up with a play-off for a CL place that we no longer possess.

 

So only the already rich should be allowed to compete in the CL? Can you see how the play-off idea would reduce some of the barriers to the smaller clubs being able to compete with the Big 4?

 

Yes I can see that advantage but I don't think they've considered all the consequences. They've simply tried to think of an idea that'll reduce the gap and pushed it forward knowing full well that the majority of clubs in the division would support the idea.

 

An interesting stat I heard on the radio this morning is that the financial reward for promotion to the Premier League via the Championship play-off is actually slightly higher than finishing in the 4th CL qualifying position. (£34m vs £30m)

[Guest alex]

Biggest game in world football iirc from a financial p.o.v. We might be in it as well

[Happy Face 29]

What it needs is a Champions Premier League for the champions of each country and a Champions Championship for the runners up and a Champions League for the playoff winners and a Europa league for anyone not relegated. Anyone who drops out of the Champions Premier League can go in the Champions Championship, anyone who drops out of the Champions Championship can go in the Champions League and anyone who drops out of the Champions league can go in the Europa league.

 

Anyone playing more than 60 games a season gets a bye to the final of the following seasons league cup to avoid playing too many games. Inevitably this will happen to more than one club, so there'll be a League Cup League which all those teams will partake in to determine who wins a place in the final.

 

I hate this shit.

[Craig 6700]

It has definitely come to a point where the Champions League is of far greater importance than any domestic leagues and so that is where every club wants to be. The new suggestions would make it interesting come the end of the season but i fear we would lose the intense five-way battle scenario for fourth spot in the Premier League that we have now. This is the first season where the traditional big four are being put under pressure by a group of other clubs and i think it has made the Premier League more entertaining this season. I cannot see this being introduced though as it would extend the season and then what is going to happen in World Cup and Euro Championship years, the season would only just be over as the players were boarding the plane. I always thought it would be good for the FA Cup winners to be given a Champions League spot rather than the team who finishes in fourth place.

 

As I alluded to earlier, some quarters suggest that Liverpool and Arsenal have built squads that will finish (or they at least hope) in the top 4 rather than building a squad that will win the league.

 

If this is pushed through, how many will then build squads that will finish in the top 7 rather than challenging for the top 4? Not necessarily conducive to maintaining what the FA believe to be the 'best league in the world' is it?

[ewerk 31201]

Yes I can see that advantage but I don't think they've considered all the consequences. They've simply tried to think of an idea that'll reduce the gap and pushed it forward knowing full well that the majority of clubs in the division would support the idea.

 

Can you think of a better idea though? The CL is where the money is to be made.

[ewerk 31201]

It has definitely come to a point where the Champions League is of far greater importance than any domestic leagues and so that is where every club wants to be. The new suggestions would make it interesting come the end of the season but i fear we would lose the intense five-way battle scenario for fourth spot in the Premier League that we have now. This is the first season where the traditional big four are being put under pressure by a group of other clubs and i think it has made the Premier League more entertaining this season. I cannot see this being introduced though as it would extend the season and then what is going to happen in World Cup and Euro Championship years, the season would only just be over as the players were boarding the plane. I always thought it would be good for the FA Cup winners to be given a Champions League spot rather than the team who finishes in fourth place.

 

As I alluded to earlier, some quarters suggest that Liverpool and Arsenal have built squads that will finish (or they at least hope) in the top 4 rather than building a squad that will win the league.

 

If this is pushed through, how many will then build squads that will finish in the top 7 rather than challenging for the top 4? Not necessarily conducive to maintaining what the FA believe to be the 'best league in the world' is it?

 

Arsenal and Liverpool both want to win the PL, if it hadn't been for poor managerial decisions then they would be challenging, well, Arsenal could still challenge this season.

[Guest alex]

I don't care, which I find quite depressing really.

[Craig 6700]

It has definitely come to a point where the Champions League is of far greater importance than any domestic leagues and so that is where every club wants to be. The new suggestions would make it interesting come the end of the season but i fear we would lose the intense five-way battle scenario for fourth spot in the Premier League that we have now. This is the first season where the traditional big four are being put under pressure by a group of other clubs and i think it has made the Premier League more entertaining this season. I cannot see this being introduced though as it would extend the season and then what is going to happen in World Cup and Euro Championship years, the season would only just be over as the players were boarding the plane. I always thought it would be good for the FA Cup winners to be given a Champions League spot rather than the team who finishes in fourth place.

 

As I alluded to earlier, some quarters suggest that Liverpool and Arsenal have built squads that will finish (or they at least hope) in the top 4 rather than building a squad that will win the league.

 

If this is pushed through, how many will then build squads that will finish in the top 7 rather than challenging for the top 4? Not necessarily conducive to maintaining what the FA believe to be the 'best league in the world' is it?

 

Arsenal and Liverpool both want to win the PL, if it hadn't been for poor managerial decisions then they would be challenging, well, Arsenal could still challenge this season.

 

That's where we disagree. I think the primary objective of both teams, particualarly Arsenal is to qualify for the Champions League and that anything else is a bonus. Sure they want to win the PL but I don't think that's the stall they set out each August. If CL qualification was for the League Champions alone, I think you'd see a different approach from both these clubs.

 

Whereas Chelsea and Man United are focused on winning the league each year IMO.

[OTF 7488]

True, it doesn't affect us and seemingly won't for the next 5 odd years (and who knows from there) assuming we're stillunder the control of Ashley.

[Toonpack 9945]

It might just be me, but I'd love to see the likes of Villa, Everton, or even Spurs (whom I hate) knock out Liverpool from the Champions League, thus compounding their financial predicament.

 

But is that a desire for a particular outcome or is it a desire for the actual format? How would you feel if Liverpool finished 7th but won the play off thus qualifying them for the CL when 3 teams who finished above them don't....?

 

It's not often I agree with Collymore but he was ranting about it on Talksport this evening. His basic argument was what was the point in having a league if come the end of it, you have a lottery to see who finishes where. He also said that the Champions League should be for the League Champions and them alone claiming that Arsenal and Liverpool have developed squads in order for them to finish in the top 4 rather than aiming necessarily for the title.

 

What Toonpack said earlier in the thread is spot on - divide the money up equally and there's no need for any of this carry on.

 

The NFL in the US have it spot on....equal share for all and the worst clubs get the best kids. They don't have relegation though, but that would make the league a true test of managerial skill iof teams were on a lot more of an equal footing..strange that the country who virtually invented global capitlism should be so "socialist" when it comes to sport. Also the "Superbowl" is just the "Superbowl", not the "Superbowl in association with eon, or doritos, or pepsi etc etc".... They sell everything else, but the name of the main title is sacred...not like the FA cup...

 

 

I don't think that's true. The worst team gets 1st pick but better teams trade off older players for the prospects and that's why the new franchise teams don't suddenly challenge for the title the following year.

 

Draft picks benefit the top tier who trade out their "Teddy Sheringham"s for "Wayne Rooney"s and the middle tier who trade out Kevin Phillips for Gabriel Agbonlahor but the meek shall never inherit a God damn thing.

 

The Americans have got a shit sport. That's all

 

That couldn’t be more wrong if you’d tried.

 

The draft is a lottery, you never know with kids, coming out of college (with a few exceptions), whether they’re going to be able to adjust to the pro game.

 

The best teams are the ones with the best talent evaluation (scouting) groups and the best coaches, who can identify a player and then develop them, as well as identify an existing older player, who’s maybe not pulling up trees on his current but can do a serviceable job in their system. Many players, who were nobodies on one team, become stars on another.

 

With regard to your second point, the Sheringham/Rooney analogy, reality is more like the actual reverse of what you state. Because of the salary cap ramifications teams are more likely to trade away/cut/let go a Rooney (towards the end of his first contract) and replace him with a Sherringham, see New England as the example, they cycle older proven players, getting a couple of years out of each, rarely do they ever compete for one of the true marquee talents. They leave that to the likes of Washington.

 

Teams simply can’t afford to keep all their stars and are often faced with very hard decisions about who to release. The point at which players become “available” to the open market is mandated by league rules as well. Of course a player can be traded (transferred at any time) but a huge megastar trade is exceptionally rare, most teams wait until they can battle for free agents.

 

All the teams get the same revenue from the League (TV) and are allowed to spend exactly the same on salaries and have exactly the same size of squad. They keep their own gate receipts and corporate stuff which is the owners “surplus”.

 

Outside of a last minute deal, next season will be uncapped due to the expiration of the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) between the League and the players union. Even without the cap it’s unlikely a “rich” team will saddle itself with a host of mega stars, more likely is that teams will dump a lot of high paid players because the cap had a minimum spend as well as a maximum spend. The pressure is on for salaries to be forced down. The whole argument that’s stalled a new CBA is about player share of the revenues, which is currently at about 52%, the owners want that dropped significantly.

 

There are a significant amount of good things that could be learned from the NFL, it’s a club of 32 mega-rich owners (well 31 plus Green Bay which is publicly owned) who have realised that uncontrolled spending to dominate isn’t in anyone’s long term interest. The stagnating Premier league should take notice.

[Guest alex]

American Football is shite though.

[LeazesMag 0]

American Football is shite though.

 

 

completely shite.

[Park Life 71]

More money driven madness.

[Craig 6700]

American Football is shite though.

 

 

completely shite.

 

Utter shite in fact

[Happy Face 29]

I like Grid-iron when the man throws the ball and the other man catches the ball.

 

It's just a shame you have to watch 4 hours of stats on how many of a players defensive turnovers have led to more than a 10 yard gain.

 

 

...and as some posters will be aware...I fucking love stats me

[Toonpack 9945]

American Football is shite though.

 

 

completely shite.

 

Utter shite in fact

 

 

Actually it's the second finest sport on the planet.

 

The "it's shite" merchants just don't understand it.

 

Irrespective of the games merits, its organisation has a lot that could be learned from to the benefit of the PL.

[Andrew 4857]

American Football is shite though.

 

 

completely shite.

 

Utter shite in fact

 

 

Actually it's the second finest sport on the planet.

 

The "it's shite" merchants just don't understand it.

 

Irrespective of the games merits, its organisation has a lot that could be learned from to the benefit of the PL.

 

no it isnt

[Guest alex]

I do understand it though.

[Toonpack 9945]

I do understand it though.

 

You think you do, but you don't