Premier League plans play-off for last Champions League place

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Premier League plans play-off for last Champions League place

 

The Premier League is considering introducing a play-off system to determine the fourth club to qualify for the following season's European Champions League.

 

Currently the club which finishes fourth goes through but the new proposal would mean a play-off between the clubs finishing fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh. The intention is to inject more competition into a league in which qualification has for years remained in the hands of the same four clubs.

 

Premier League sources have confirmed that the play-off proposal was presented at the most recent meeting of all clubs, on 4 February, and the league's chief executive, Richard Scudamore, was authorised to return with further details in April.

 

It is understood that the idea was enthusiastically supported by all clubs – except the so-called big four of Chelsea, Manchester United, Arsenal and Liverpool. Scudamore, and the league's secretary, Mike Foster, will examine the practicalities of how a play-off system could work: whether it should take the form of a home-and-away knockout system, similar to that in the Football League, or incorporate seeding. They will also look into when matches could be fitted into a crowded fixture calendar before making recommendations.

 

The idea was presented as part of the Premier League's strategic review of its format and operations and springs from two particular motivations. The first is to crack the problem of England's top league becoming less open and competitive, with the richest clubs, Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool, having strengthened their hold on the top four places over several years. One league source said it was an odd twist that the idea has been raised now, in a season when Liverpool's claim to the fourth place is being seriously challenged.

 

The response among clubs outside the top four is understood to have been positive, with some believing that a play-off system would create more competitive matches and give more clubs a prize to challenge for. Most clubs now feel they have no chance of attaining fourth place but almost the whole Premier League could be brought into a competition to finish seventh and make it to the play-offs. The medium-sized clubs, which increasingly aspire to break the cartel, are said to have been enthusiastic, seeing play-offs as a great opportunity.

 

The big four, who have been qualifying on merit at the end of each season and reaping the footballing and financial rewards of Champions League participation are understood to have been less keen. Self-interest is clearly a factor, with those clubs concerned about protecting their own advantages. However, there is also a feeling that the league should be more sophisticated about addressing its major challenges, particularly the financial ones, rather than incorpor-ating an awkward play-off system for a prize as ostensibly moderate as fourth place.

 

The other motivation for the play-offs is a waning of the proposal for an international round of matches, dubbed "Game 39", which was widely criticised for lacking coherence and being territorially expansionist. The play-offs would mean extra matches, which would be sold to pay-television and so generate more money for all clubs.

 

The consistent qualification of the same four clubs, widely seen as stifling competition, is not replicated across Europe. The Premier League largely blames the Uefa Champions League money, distributed to participating clubs, for entrenching the big four's financial power. Uefa, however, points out that Champions League income represents a small part, 8–13%, of Manchester United's, Chelsea's, Arsenal's and Liverpool's total turnover. Most of the big clubs' money is made in this country; Premier League television income is relatively evenly distributed but United, Chelsea and Arsenal in particular make much more than their nearest rivals from commercial activities and match-day revenues in the Premier League.

 

The Dutch league tried a play-off system for the second Champions League qualification place but abandoned it after the 2007-08 season, when FC Twente Enschede beat Ajax 2-1. The issues in Holland were the risk of crowd trouble at such high-stakes matches and a perception that the play-offs were one-sided.

 

In the Premier League there is some confidence that neither of those would present major problems. As a means of encouraging competition, opportunities and increasing income, the play-off proposal already seems to have enough support to suggest it could gain the necessary 14-6 majority to be implemented.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/fe...hampions-league

 

At liverpoo's request by any chance?

 

Surely after 38 games the team that finished 4th deserve it? Imagine a side that came 7th making the European Cup final. Definitely the traditional big four trying to protect their income now citeh, villa and spuds are catching up.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Definitely the traditional big four trying to protect their income now citeh, villa and spuds are catching up.

 

EDIT: Reading it properly, the 'big four' are against it

[Craig 6700]

Premier League devising ways to extend the season and have another example for TV cash to come flooding in? I wouldn't believe it....

 

Crazy idea IMO - not surprised the big 4 are against it, they play enough games as it is - and our international players reckon they don't get a big enough window between the season end and a summer tournament now. What's it going to be like with this as well?

[OTF 7488]

Liverpool will still finish in the top 4 this season anyway.

[OTF 7488]

Crazy idea IMO - not surprised the big 4 are against it, they play enough games as it is - and our international players reckon they don't get a big enough window between the season end and a summer tournament now. What's it going to be like with this as well?

 

Who really cares what the overpaid under-appreciative players think? Seriously, four weeks annual leave is what most people get and they don't get to swan about during large parts of the week getting into whatever mischief they please. Plus after 10-15 years of professional playing the 'international players' can effectively retire at the spritely age of 35.

 

If there was more local based players in each of the sides needing time off to go back home and visit family etc would not be such an issue.

 

More games is not the issue. I like this idea. Over the length of a season it's pretty much always going to be a case of the top four teams being the four who spend the most. The four who spend the most will be the four who earn the most, who will be the four who already have the international market cornered, who make the most from merchandise sales, who make the most from TV and who have the money from their previous involvement in the Champions League.

[Craig 6700]

I think you mis-understood what I meant by 'international players'. I wasn't referring to foreign players who are keen to return home in the summer.

 

The point I'm making is that particularly in England, they've been trying to come up with ways and means to give our own international players the best possible chance in a summer tournament (either the World Cup or European Championships). For example I think one year they brought the 3rd round of the FA Cup into early December so there was less games being crammed in towards the end of the season.

 

Aside from that, is it really needed and for what 'real' reason are they considering bringing it in? The team that finishes 4th should get the place IMO because they're the ones that have earned it over the 38 games - not being reliant on a two game lottery come the end of May.

 

What's frustrating is that IMO they're masking the motive why they want to bring this in - it won't 'shake things up' but what it will do is give the Premier League another event to sell to television. Hardly surprising that the teams outside the top 4 are in favour either. Surely the league can come up with better suggestions to bridge the gap?

[Toonpack 9945]

Revenue sharing is the way to go, all revenues from TV for all competitions should go to the league which then distributes equally to the clubs, clubs can keep their own off-field commercial revenue's but all other dosh should get equally divied up.

 

The way it's structured now teams qualifying for the champs league is a self fullfilling prophecy

[snakehips 0]

Premier League devising ways to extend the season and have another example for TV cash to come flooding in? I wouldn't believe it....

 

Crazy idea IMO - not surprised the big 4 are against it, they play enough games as it is - and our international players reckon they don't get a big enough window between the season end and a summer tournament now. What's it going to be like with this as well?

 

In a nutshell.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

Revenue sharing is the way to go, all revenues from TV for all competitions should go to the league which then distributes equally to the clubs, clubs can keep their own off-field commercial revenue's but all other dosh should get equally divied up.

 

The way it's structured now teams qualifying for the champs league is a self fullfilling prophecy

 

Would certainly be interesting and would annoy the "big four" so would amuse me if nothing else. Because as things are now with the 4 clubs having had year upon year of CL money and the reputation to attract the best players like you say its then self fullfilling that they qualify again. Theres only Man City with a genuine chance of breaking into and staying in the top 4. Others like Spurs, Villa, Everton etc may get in one year, but next year they'll be out again.

 

As for the play off idea itself, its bad enough teams who aren't champions get into the "champions league" allowing a team who finished 7th a chance is ludicrous.

[LeazesMag 0]

Revenue sharing is the way to go , all revenues from TV for all competitions should go to the league which then distributes equally to the clubs, clubs can keep their own off-field commercial revenue's but all other dosh should get equally divied up.

 

The way it's structured now teams qualifying for the champs league is a self fullfilling prophecy

 

nailed.

 

The only way to avoid a huge amount of clubs going the way of Luton, Southampton, Portsmouth etc.....these aren't small clubs. They don't need points deducting, they need help.

 

The PFA can also play a part, but don't hold your breath.

[Barney 0]

In the Irish League the 3rd bottom team play the 3rd from top of the division below in a play-off game. A bit different and one very exciting game.

 

There's no need to change promotion/relegation/champs league places though imo.

[The Fish 10963]

So who gets the UEFA cup spot?

[Andrew 4857]

Revenue sharing is the way to go , all revenues from TV for all competitions should go to the league which then distributes equally to the clubs, clubs can keep their own off-field commercial revenue's but all other dosh should get equally divied up.

 

The way it's structured now teams qualifying for the champs league is a self fullfilling prophecy

 

nailed.

 

The only way to avoid a huge amount of clubs going the way of Luton, Southampton, Portsmouth etc.....these aren't small clubs. They don't need points deducting, they need help.

 

The PFA can also play a part, but don't hold your breath.

 

agreed

 

the premier league will never do anything like it though at the risk of upsetting its members plus it would require them and the football league to actually colaborate which is far below all those self important cunts who run the PL

 

PFA are cowards, not unlike pretty much every governing body involved in football

[khay 10]

So who gets the UEFA cup spot?

 

The teams in the play off spots who do not get the champions league place.

Edited February 15, 2010 by khay

[Andrew 4857]

So who gets the UEFA cup spot?

tombola

[OTF 7488]

I think you mis-understood what I meant by 'international players'. I wasn't referring to foreign players who are keen to return home in the summer.

 

I got that actually, it was two separate points. The first was that the international players (eg. players representing their countries England or otherwise) will have enough money by the time they're 35 (unless they're Obafemi Martins who's broke and is already 40) to retire extremely comfortably.

 

The second was that if there was more of a focus of keeping local players in their local sides, then it would be a lot less like constantly being away for work. Plenty of time during the week to keep in contact with friends and family (more-so that the average person working 9-5).

 

The point I'm making is that particularly in England, they've been trying to come up with ways and means to give our own international players the best possible chance in a summer tournament (either the World Cup or European Championships). For example I think one year they brought the 3rd round of the FA Cup into early December so there was less games being crammed in towards the end of the season.

 

You can understand them doing everything they can, however I don't think any of it has worked. In the end if the players are good enough they will rise to the occassions.

 

Aside from that, is it really needed and for what 'real' reason are they considering bringing it in? The team that finishes 4th should get the place IMO because they're the ones that have earned it over the 38 games - not being reliant on a two game lottery come the end of May.

 

More revenue from TV is a big motivation, but so is trying to make the league less predictable. Outside of th UK most people (read: twats) like supporting winning sides when there is no side that you can attach yourself to geographically. For this generation that's Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea and to a lesser extend Liverpool (who can fall back on their European exploits in the face of repeated domestic failure). Seeing some different sides in the Champions League will begin to redress the avalanche of support for the big four clubs. I'm sure we'll eventually see Manchester City overtake the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool in the league, and whilst this being purely financially based is not a good thing the fact that there will be a set of five sides fighting for the coveted four positions is.

 

It could be heavily slanted in favour of the team that finishes fourth.

 

For example, team five hosts team six in a single match to determine who travels to plays team four. Both games will have extra time and then a penalty shoot-out. Only two extra games are added with only three teams involved. At the same time it will keep the top four keen right up till the end of the season as they try to push for a top 3 finish to guarantee their involvement.

 

It might just be me, but I'd love to see the likes of Villa, Everton, or even Spurs (whom I hate) knock out Liverpool from the Champions League, thus compounding their financial predicament.

[Craig 6700]

It might just be me, but I'd love to see the likes of Villa, Everton, or even Spurs (whom I hate) knock out Liverpool from the Champions League, thus compounding their financial predicament.

 

But is that a desire for a particular outcome or is it a desire for the actual format? How would you feel if Liverpool finished 7th but won the play off thus qualifying them for the CL when 3 teams who finished above them don't....?

 

It's not often I agree with Collymore but he was ranting about it on Talksport this evening. His basic argument was what was the point in having a league if come the end of it, you have a lottery to see who finishes where. He also said that the Champions League should be for the League Champions and them alone claiming that Arsenal and Liverpool have developed squads in order for them to finish in the top 4 rather than aiming necessarily for the title.

 

What Toonpack said earlier in the thread is spot on - divide the money up equally and there's no need for any of this carry on.

[PaddockLad 17653]

It might just be me, but I'd love to see the likes of Villa, Everton, or even Spurs (whom I hate) knock out Liverpool from the Champions League, thus compounding their financial predicament.

 

But is that a desire for a particular outcome or is it a desire for the actual format? How would you feel if Liverpool finished 7th but won the play off thus qualifying them for the CL when 3 teams who finished above them don't....?

 

It's not often I agree with Collymore but he was ranting about it on Talksport this evening. His basic argument was what was the point in having a league if come the end of it, you have a lottery to see who finishes where. He also said that the Champions League should be for the League Champions and them alone claiming that Arsenal and Liverpool have developed squads in order for them to finish in the top 4 rather than aiming necessarily for the title.

 

What Toonpack said earlier in the thread is spot on - divide the money up equally and there's no need for any of this carry on.

 

The NFL in the US have it spot on....equal share for all and the worst clubs get the best kids. They don't have relegation though, but that would make the league a true test of managerial skill iof teams were on a lot more of an equal footing..strange that the country who virtually invented global capitlism should be so "socialist" when it comes to sport. Also the "Superbowl" is just the "Superbowl", not the "Superbowl in association with eon, or doritos, or pepsi etc etc".... They sell everything else, but the name of the main title is sacred...not like the FA cup...

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

It might just be me, but I'd love to see the likes of Villa, Everton, or even Spurs (whom I hate) knock out Liverpool from the Champions League, thus compounding their financial predicament.

 

But is that a desire for a particular outcome or is it a desire for the actual format? How would you feel if Liverpool finished 7th but won the play off thus qualifying them for the CL when 3 teams who finished above them don't....?

 

It's not often I agree with Collymore but he was ranting about it on Talksport this evening. His basic argument was what was the point in having a league if come the end of it, you have a lottery to see who finishes where. He also said that the Champions League should be for the League Champions and them alone claiming that Arsenal and Liverpool have developed squads in order for them to finish in the top 4 rather than aiming necessarily for the title.

 

What Toonpack said earlier in the thread is spot on - divide the money up equally and there's no need for any of this carry on.

I'd feel that's typical of those jammy scouse cunts.

[OTF 7488]

It might just be me, but I'd love to see the likes of Villa, Everton, or even Spurs (whom I hate) knock out Liverpool from the Champions League, thus compounding their financial predicament.

 

But is that a desire for a particular outcome or is it a desire for the actual format? How would you feel if Liverpool finished 7th but won the play off thus qualifying them for the CL when 3 teams who finished above them don't....?

 

Largely a desire for the particular outcome. In my system only the top 6 sides would be eligible, so Liverpool couldn't finish 7th and get in. If they finished 6th and got in then I'd wear it with a grimace.

 

The way I see it for the next 4 or 5 years we won't see anyone outside of Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Manchester City finish inside the top 4 in the league. Aston Villa and Tottenham are trying to play catch-ups with these sides, but just don't have enough money to feasibly have the depth to compete with the big sides over a 38 game season. Everton have stability on their side, but with the money not there to continue investing they too suffer from lack of depth. The fact that they have built a strong side on reasonable wages should be recognised.

 

 

It's not often I agree with Collymore but he was ranting about it on Talksport this evening. His basic argument was what was the point in having a league if come the end of it, you have a lottery to see who finishes where.

 

Firstly, it's not a lottery if there's only 3 tickets. Secondly if you can't beat another lower ranked side on your home pitch then do you really deserve to go through?

 

Did Collymore argue that there was no point in having a World Cup?

 

He also said that the Champions League should be for the League Champions and them alone claiming that Arsenal and Liverpool have developed squads in order for them to finish in the top 4 rather than aiming necessarily for the title.

 

This is true, however it is patently clear that there is four English sides who are very much good enough to compete and go far in the Champions League. Having only one team from each league in there would lower the overall standard of the competition because of the intense concentration of ability within three leagues.

[The Fish 10963]

It might just be me, but I'd love to see the likes of Villa, Everton, or even Spurs (whom I hate) knock out Liverpool from the Champions League, thus compounding their financial predicament.

 

But is that a desire for a particular outcome or is it a desire for the actual format? How would you feel if Liverpool finished 7th but won the play off thus qualifying them for the CL when 3 teams who finished above them don't....?

 

It's not often I agree with Collymore but he was ranting about it on Talksport this evening. His basic argument was what was the point in having a league if come the end of it, you have a lottery to see who finishes where. He also said that the Champions League should be for the League Champions and them alone claiming that Arsenal and Liverpool have developed squads in order for them to finish in the top 4 rather than aiming necessarily for the title.

 

What Toonpack said earlier in the thread is spot on - divide the money up equally and there's no need for any of this carry on.

 

The NFL in the US have it spot on....equal share for all and the worst clubs get the best kids. They don't have relegation though, but that would make the league a true test of managerial skill iof teams were on a lot more of an equal footing..strange that the country who virtually invented global capitlism should be so "socialist" when it comes to sport. Also the "Superbowl" is just the "Superbowl", not the "Superbowl in association with eon, or doritos, or pepsi etc etc".... They sell everything else, but the name of the main title is sacred...not like the FA cup...

 

 

I don't think that's true. The worst team gets 1st pick but better teams trade off older players for the prospects and that's why the new franchise teams don't suddenly challenge for the title the following year.

 

Draft picks benefit the top tier who trade out their "Teddy Sheringham"s for "Wayne Rooney"s and the middle tier who trade out Kevin Phillips for Gabriel Agbonlahor but the meek shall never inherit a God damn thing.

 

The Americans have got a shit sport. That's all

[Andrew 4857]

Firstly, it's not a lottery if there's only 3 tickets. Secondly if you can't beat another lower ranked side on your home pitch then do you really deserve to go through?

 

bull-shit, a one off game doesn't mean anything, should we give Leeds all of Man Uniteds CL fixtures since they knocked them out of the cupt? why bother with the whole league system?

[PaddockLad 17653]

It might just be me, but I'd love to see the likes of Villa, Everton, or even Spurs (whom I hate) knock out Liverpool from the Champions League, thus compounding their financial predicament.

 

But is that a desire for a particular outcome or is it a desire for the actual format? How would you feel if Liverpool finished 7th but won the play off thus qualifying them for the CL when 3 teams who finished above them don't....?

 

It's not often I agree with Collymore but he was ranting about it on Talksport this evening. His basic argument was what was the point in having a league if come the end of it, you have a lottery to see who finishes where. He also said that the Champions League should be for the League Champions and them alone claiming that Arsenal and Liverpool have developed squads in order for them to finish in the top 4 rather than aiming necessarily for the title.

 

What Toonpack said earlier in the thread is spot on - divide the money up equally and there's no need for any of this carry on.

 

The NFL in the US have it spot on....equal share for all and the worst clubs get the best kids. They don't have relegation though, but that would make the league a true test of managerial skill iof teams were on a lot more of an equal footing..strange that the country who virtually invented global capitlism should be so "socialist" when it comes to sport. Also the "Superbowl" is just the "Superbowl", not the "Superbowl in association with eon, or doritos, or pepsi etc etc".... They sell everything else, but the name of the main title is sacred...not like the FA cup...

 

 

I don't think that's true. The worst team gets 1st pick but better teams trade off older players for the prospects and that's why the new franchise teams don't suddenly challenge for the title the following year. Draft picks benefit the top tier who trade out their "Teddy Sheringham"s for "Wayne Rooney"s and the middle tier who trade out Kevin Phillips for Gabriel Agbonlahor but the meek shall never inherit a God damn thing.

 

The Americans have got a shit sport. That's all

Yeah there are ways around the best laid plans.But the Superbowl last month shows what can be acheived....New Orleans have never done fuck all historically, but there time in the cycle has come eventually. I cant see that happening in this country too often in the future, but you alwways stand a chance in the NFL.

 

The game itself isnt great, but the leagues works a lot better than our current shambles.....

 

And didnt Carolina and Tenessee get to the Superbowl within a few years of their franchaise starting?...were Baltimore an expansion team as well?...they won it..and there hasnt been a promoted side in over 30 years who have won the league the next season in England so its not really common here either, however much money theyve thrown at it, us being the chief culprits with that.

[Guest Insider]

It's a class idea. Keeps the competition going till the end. Helps avoid those occasional boring seasons where things get sown up early

[OTF 7488]

Firstly, it's not a lottery if there's only 3 tickets. Secondly if you can't beat another lower ranked side on your home pitch then do you really deserve to go through?

 

bull-shit, a one off game doesn't mean anything, should we give Leeds all of Man Uniteds CL fixtures since they knocked them out of the cupt? why bother with the whole league system?

 

If Manchester United fielded a weakened side in a fixture with such meaning then sure. Of course Leeds are a long way off finishing in the top 6 of the Premierleague, so that's hardly applicable. Manchester United were beaten by Leeds because they more or less couldn't give a toss about the FA Cup.

 

A touch dramatic with the who league system comment - It's making a modification to the league system where-by some of the meaningless end of season fixtures will have new meaning given to them as teams in the top 5 (I'm adding Machester City into the mix because feasibly next season they'll be there) push to ensure they gain automatic qualification to the Champions League and teams in the middle push to have a shot at picking up that fourth Champions League spot. Noone really gives a hoot about the Europa League (not the least because it sounds like some kind of talent competition) but the chance to enter a playoff to get into the Champaions League qualifiers would have huge appeal.

 

Every year since 2005 the same four sides have gained Champions League qualification. This will seemingly happen over the next 5 years as well, with only Manchester City being thrown into the mix courtesy of their new money. Arsenal in particular have created a side that is unlikely to challenge for a title, but is more or less assured of finishing in the top 4, so a move like this may make a team like that strive to try to win the title, rather than play it safe just aiming for the top 4.

 

Chances are that the playoff match would see the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool or Manchester City playing between themselves for two out of the three spots, so in effect not that much would change, except that the competitiveness of the league season would be prolonged.