Could You live with Ashley long term?

[Happy Face 29]

I don't see why any top class manager would want to work under Llambias.

 

I struggle to imagine anyone coming in while Ashley is here, but just about manage to, if he does like i said above and pins all the blame on Decka & Wise.

 

The reason you've softened is that there are some signs of green shoots and whatever we think of MA he's one shrewd fuck, he's certainly turned our finances around and next year he'll go into profit. Job done.

 

Absolutley.

 

I'm not too stuck in my ways to keep harassing the owner if we're doing as well as we were before Ashley arrived (by which I mean bottom half Premier League finishes Leazes, not Champions league football that we haven't seen in 7 years) or better.

 

If we could come out of all the lies, the stupid decisions, the risks and the miserable football as one of the most financially stable clubs in the Premier league, while others are stuggling to pay wages, I'd hate to see Mike Ashley keep making the same mistakes and driving the fans to distraction when we could be pushing past those failing clubs, taking their players on the cheap.

Edited February 3, 2010 by Happy Face

[peasepud 59]

I don't see why any top class manager would want to work under Llambias.

 

I struggle to imagine anyone coming in while Ashley is here, but just about manage to, if he does like i said above and pins all the blame on Decka & Wise.

 

The reason you've softened is that there are some signs of green shoots and whatever we think of MA he's one shrewd fuck, he's certainly turned our finances around and next year he'll go into profit. Job done.

 

The thing is though any football club can go into profit, that doesnt mean its a good thing for the club, merely a good one for the owner.

 

Ashley hasnt got us on track through good football business hes done so through tightening the belt, thats not to say it wasnt needed but shaving 200+ members of loyal staff and closing parts of the ground down because you've lost sponsors, corporate customers and on the day fans isnt good business.

 

I'll be impressed when he raises a profit by increasing the turnover to exceed the outgoings not by merely reducing the outgoings to below the turnover.

[Park Life 71]

I don't see why any top class manager would want to work under Llambias.

 

I struggle to imagine anyone coming in while Ashley is here, but just about manage to, if he does like i said above and pins all the blame on Decka & Wise.

 

The reason you've softened is that there are some signs of green shoots and whatever we think of MA he's one shrewd fuck, he's certainly turned our finances around and next year he'll go into profit. Job done.

 

Absolutley.

 

I'm not too stuck in my ways to keep harassing the owner if we're doing as well as we were before Ashley arrived (by which I mean bottom half Premier League finishes Leazes, not Champions league football that we haven't seen in 7 years) or better.

 

If we could come out of all the lies, the stupid decisions, the risks and the miserable football as one of the most financially stable clubs in the Premier league, while others are stuggling to pay wages, I'd hate to see Mike Ashley keep making the same mistakes and driving the fans to distraction when we could be pushing past those failing clubs, taking their players on the cheap.

 

It's a scenario that is more than plausible if you see the players (the clubs) he targetted this window. Still think he missed a trick with Moses as that would have converted many of the undecided.

[peasepud 59]

I think some of us may be eating a huge slice of irony pie if he's still owner in 2 years time. Pity we'll be, at best, a solvent yo yo club with no real direction but looking at Pompey maybe we're better with the devil we know.

 

Does anyone really want that though?

 

As a football fan it should be all about the football, winning things, pride in your club, not merely ensuring the balance sheet works ahead of the team sheet.

 

Manageable debt with a successful team is the only way to get on in this game. No club will ever amount to anything if it doesnt spend money.

 

If we dont go up this season then I honestly believe this football club is destined to sink into obscurity and god knows what after that. Without the big money of the Premiership then we'll not have anything next season. We've had parachute payments and the sale of players this year while still retaining Premiership level attendances.

 

Next Championship season would be a whole different ball game.

[Park Life 71]

I don't see why any top class manager would want to work under Llambias.

 

I struggle to imagine anyone coming in while Ashley is here, but just about manage to, if he does like i said above and pins all the blame on Decka & Wise.

 

The reason you've softened is that there are some signs of green shoots and whatever we think of MA he's one shrewd fuck, he's certainly turned our finances around and next year he'll go into profit. Job done.

 

The thing is though any football club can go into profit, that doesnt mean its a good thing for the club, merely a good one for the owner.

 

Ashley hasnt got us on track through good football business hes done so through tightening the belt, thats not to say it wasnt needed but shaving 200+ members of loyal staff and closing parts of the ground down because you've lost sponsors, corporate customers and on the day fans isnt good business.

 

I'll be impressed when he raises a profit by increasing the turnover to exceed the outgoings not by merely reducing the outgoings to below the turnover.

 

 

Turnover against outgoings will be positive next year (withouth going through all the numbers again). I don't really disagree with your core ideas as I'm an invest 50m in the side kind of guy (well documented here and in the other place). But we all have to accept that the fianacial environment has changed (I've lost about 70% of my business). MA didn't really understand the weighting between expectations and cold business, this may change, you and the NUST will have to be prepared for that eventuality over the next year. MA won't want to be relegated again that's for sure. One of the blessings in disguise was that we weren't a leveeraged buyout and that has saved this club form oblivion. He is only short of one or two good football men in the boardroom and a good manager from being begining to be seen as some kind of saviour. These things are always in flux. The signs will be clear early doors next season.

Edited February 3, 2010 by Park Life

[Monkeys Fist 43067]

Read this thread with interest- the whole list of problems detailed all ultimately come down to one man's piss poor decision making.

Getting rid of Llamearse is one thing- who in their right mind, of any quality, would take his job?

Mort was shown in the tribunal to be as deep into the lying as the rest, so I would be reluctant to see him back- I struggle to think of any other replacement for Dekka who isn't in the Ashley 'mob'.

As long as he's the owner, no-one with any credibility will come anywhere near us.

[PaddockLad 17648]

I think some of us may be eating a huge slice of irony pie if he's still owner in 2 years time. Pity we'll be, at best, a solvent yo yo club with no real direction but looking at Pompey maybe we're better with the devil we know.

 

Does anyone really want that though?

 

As a football fan it should be all about the football, winning things, pride in your club, not merely ensuring the balance sheet works ahead of the team sheet.

 

Manageable debt with a successful team is the only way to get on in this game. No club will ever amount to anything if it doesnt spend money.

 

If we dont go up this season then I honestly believe this football club is destined to sink into obscurity and god knows what after that. Without the big money of the Premiership then we'll not have anything next season. We've had parachute payments and the sale of players this year while still retaining Premiership level attendances.

 

Next Championship season would be a whole different ball game.

 

No I agree with you, but our actions in the transfer window haven't really made promotion almost guaranteed as it could've done if we'd have recruited for August 2010 and not May 2010 only.

 

But this is the road he's taking us down and for me theres little anyone, including NUST, can do about it. Can they apply enough pressure on him to sell up if he thinks that once we're fully coming out of the recession he may get more money for the club than NUST can ever hope to raise, excellent though their intentions and actions have been so far.

[peasepud 59]

No I agree with you, but our actions in the transfer window haven't really made promotion almost guaranteed as it could've done if we'd have recruited for August 2010 and not May 2010 only.

 

But this is the road he's taking us down and for me theres little anyone, including NUST, can do about it. Can they apply enough pressure on him to sell up if he thinks that once we're fully coming out of the recession he may get more money for the club than NUST can ever hope to raise, excellent though their intentions and actions have been so far.

 

Definitely not, nobody can force him to sell up and I fear that if we do go up then we (the fans) have little chance of purchasing the club for at least another season, by that time the momentum will have gone from the campaign and the chance will be lost. Thats my personal view obviously but its starting to look bleaker as far as I can see, yes we have a plan which can feasibly raise the cash needed but the longer it takes the lower the chances are.

 

That is assuming we gain promotion, lose this chance and like I said above the future is bleak for the club under Ashley and he would need to realise that the crowds we were getting were based on goodwill of the fans to get us back up there. A lot of that will be gone (as is showing now, attendances are dropping game by game) and turnover will drop even further. Maybe then Ashley will really be desperate to sell up.

 

Trouble is I cant bring myself to hope for that scenario, even if the long term future of the club depends on it, I cant stand there and hope we fuck up promotion I wouldnt be a fan if I could do that.

 

I think we're at a cross roads where we neither win or lose short term. Go up and we get Premiership football back but have another season of the selling/not selling circus married with little investment in the squad and another relegation battle.

 

Stay down and we have the dross of Championship football to look forward to but this time there are at least 3 teams better placed to go up on the flip side we have a much better chance of getting this club out of Ashleys hands.

 

Devil and Deep Blue sea I think.

[timnufc 0]

I will always hate him, and any success that happens while he's still here will always be tainted that little bit for me. The scale of which he has taken the piss is unbelievable, to the fans, Keegan and also Shearer. So many things where it has crossed the line, where its not about 'winning people over on the pitch', its about the integrity of the man, its went way beyond just 'do well on the pitch and your accepted back'.

[Jackies the Lad 0]

the answer to the question......... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

As long as the show is owned and run by such a pair of liars, cheats, cheapskates etc they will not get a penny of my money!

 

And before you all say fairweather supporter, I have paid my money to equally bad owners, but not worse, over the past 50 years. This last lot of owners and performances was a a bit too much for me. Fuck Ashley and all he's done to my support and to our club.

[Guest alex]

I will always hate him, and any success that happens while he's still here will always be tainted that little bit for me. The scale of which he has taken the piss is unbelievable, to the fans, Keegan and also Shearer. So many things where it has crossed the line, where its not about 'winning people over on the pitch', its about the integrity of the man, its went way beyond just 'do well on the pitch and your accepted back'.

On the plus side, you probably won't have to worry about that

[Park Life 71]

Thinking about it he's only really made one mistake - due dilligance. It was the fallout from that that coloured all his other gaffs.

[NJS 4411]

Thinking about it he's only really made one mistake - due dilligance. It was the fallout from that that coloured all his other gaffs.

 

I've often wondered whether his intention was to spend big if the debt hadn't been there. Then again I can't understand if that was the case why he didn't just bite the bullet and spend anyway.

[ewerk 31199]

Manageable debt with a successful team is the only way to get on in this game. No club will ever amount to anything if it doesnt spend money.

 

Well debt isn't necessarily the only way to have a successful team.

 

As I've said before, if Ashley wants to raise the value of the club and get potential buyers interested then the best thing he could do would be to appoint a chairman and manager who know what they're doing and to give them £40m to spend. If invested wisely we could see this club go from the Championship to Europe while remaining self-sufficient following the initial investment.

Edited February 3, 2010 by ewerk

[Matt 0]

Ashley cannot succeed long-term. The bridges have been burned and soon as things go slightly wrong it will all kick off again. Same thing with Shepherd & Hall after the NOTW incident. The instability set in at the top and worked its way down.

 

Long-term stability will only be generated if there is an element of trust between the club and its most important source of revenue and that is never going to happen under Ashley. His best hope would be to step away from the club and act as a holding investor only, while a competent management team got on with the job of building the business rather than leaving it to a mate who doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

[Happy Face 29]

Thinking about it he's only really made one mistake - due dilligance. It was the fallout from that that coloured all his other gaffs.

 

I've often wondered whether his intention was to spend big if the debt hadn't been there. Then again I can't understand if that was the case why he didn't just bite the bullet and spend anyway.

 

Wasn't his stated intention always to put in another £20m each season? Which he claims to have stood by even having paid off the debt. He would say the additional £20m a season has gone on running costs.

 

The argument against that is that he's only loaned the club money and so shifted the debt and gone on to increase it even further.

[Park Life 71]

Thinking about it he's only really made one mistake - due dilligance. It was the fallout from that that coloured all his other gaffs.

 

I've often wondered whether his intention was to spend big if the debt hadn't been there. Then again I can't understand if that was the case why he didn't just bite the bullet and spend anyway.

 

NOt making excuses for him, but if the 100m or so liabilities hadn't been there I'm sure there would have been more money available.

[Park Life 71]

Thinking about it he's only really made one mistake - due dilligance. It was the fallout from that that coloured all his other gaffs.

 

I've often wondered whether his intention was to spend big if the debt hadn't been there. Then again I can't understand if that was the case why he didn't just bite the bullet and spend anyway.

 

Wasn't his stated intention always to put in another £20m each season? Which he claims to have stood by even having paid off the debt. He would say the additional £20m a season has gone on running costs.

 

The argument against that is that he's only loaned the club money and so shifted the debt and gone on to increase it even further.

 

If he's playing good cop next season 20m will be the transfer budget.

[NJS 4411]

Thinking about it he's only really made one mistake - due dilligance. It was the fallout from that that coloured all his other gaffs.

 

I've often wondered whether his intention was to spend big if the debt hadn't been there. Then again I can't understand if that was the case why he didn't just bite the bullet and spend anyway.

 

Wasn't his stated intention always to put in another £20m each season? Which he claims to have stood by even having paid off the debt. He would say the additional £20m a season has gone on running costs.

 

The argument against that is that he's only loaned the club money and so shifted the debt and gone on to increase it even further.

 

The 20m was part of his infamous first sale statement and looked like shite made up just for that imo.

[Park Life 71]

Ashley cannot succeed long-term. The bridges have been burned and soon as things go slightly wrong it will all kick off again. Same thing with Shepherd & Hall after the NOTW incident. The instability set in at the top and worked its way down.

 

Long-term stability will only be generated if there is an element of trust between the club and its most important source of revenue and that is never going to happen under Ashley. His best hope would be to step away from the club and act as a holding investor only, while a competent management team got on with the job of building the business rather than leaving it to a mate who doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

 

I think he wants out so that's not really a worry. Owning a football club is basically a total pain in the arse.

[peasepud 59]

Thinking about it he's only really made one mistake - due dilligance. It was the fallout from that that coloured all his other gaffs.

 

I've often wondered whether his intention was to spend big if the debt hadn't been there. Then again I can't understand if that was the case why he didn't just bite the bullet and spend anyway.

 

Wasn't his stated intention always to put in another £20m each season? Which he claims to have stood by even having paid off the debt. He would say the additional £20m a season has gone on running costs.

 

The argument against that is that he's only loaned the club money and so shifted the debt and gone on to increase it even further.

 

Exactly, all he did was take some debt to one organisation and move it to another ie his own company. Fair enough, it saved the club interest payments however he never intended to kill the debt and was always going to look to get that back. He then went on though to take out a further £40m overdraft with Barclays.

 

It was only when times became really bad ie relegation that he thought about writing it off just to get out.

 

 

At the same time as crowing about how many Premiership sides would love to be in our financial position they were also contradicting themselves by saying how great Mike was for putting £20m in just to keep us alive.

[NJS 4411]

Thinking about it he's only really made one mistake - due dilligance. It was the fallout from that that coloured all his other gaffs.

 

I've often wondered whether his intention was to spend big if the debt hadn't been there. Then again I can't understand if that was the case why he didn't just bite the bullet and spend anyway.

 

NOt making excuses for him, but if the 100m or so liabilities hadn't been there I'm sure there would have been more money available.

 

 

The other thing is, the pay-off clause on the mortgage was only £45m - he only paid the other 55m/65m out pf choice.

[snakehips 0]

If he abandoned the crass idea of naming rights for St James' Park, I would go back. I've spent money on equally bad owners in the past and see no reason to change that now that he's there. I've always looked upon it as supporting the team, rather than the owner.

[Happy Face 29]

Thinking about it he's only really made one mistake - due dilligance. It was the fallout from that that coloured all his other gaffs.

 

I've often wondered whether his intention was to spend big if the debt hadn't been there. Then again I can't understand if that was the case why he didn't just bite the bullet and spend anyway.

 

Wasn't his stated intention always to put in another £20m each season? Which he claims to have stood by even having paid off the debt. He would say the additional £20m a season has gone on running costs.

 

The argument against that is that he's only loaned the club money and so shifted the debt and gone on to increase it even further.

 

The 20m was part of his infamous first sale statement and looked like shite made up just for that imo.

 

And has been constantly repeated.

 

November 2009

"He has out another £20million in this week, and that's just for the running costs. Come January, we might have to put some more in."

 

October 2009

“I have to put £20m a year into the club — I spend more than every other fan put together puts into the club each year.

 

"In confirming the news, Mike Ashley stated that he is totally committed to the future success of Newcastle United and will be focusing on gaining promotion back to the Premier League. Mike will put a further £20m into the Club this week."

 

 

September 2008

"I was always prepared to bank roll Newcastle up to the tune of £20 million per year "

 

"I would pour up to £20 million a year into the club and not expect anything back."

Edited February 3, 2010 by Happy Face

[peasepud 59]

Anway I dont get what the investment etc have to do with the OP?

 

 

 

I couldnt live with him, I bet he pisses on the toilet seat and drinks out of the milk cartons.

 

Dirty herbert!