If we're promoted will we be in better shape than 2 years back?

[OTF 7485]

I was just thinking of all the players who we have sold or let go of in the past 18 months. It's quite a large list featuring predominantly high earning underachievers. Certainly we've lost some players of talent, there's no denying that, but overall the wage bill has been vastly reduced and a significant amount of capital has been generated from numerous players sales.

 

The likes of Michael Owen, Mark Viduka, Damien Duff, Obafemi Martins, Geremi, Nicky Butt, Shay Given, James Milner, Charles N'Zogbia will all have departed (or will before we kick a ball next season). In their place we have added Danny Simpson, Ryan Taylor, Kevin Nolan, Wayne Routledge and Mike Williamson. With the possible exception of Kevin Nolan they'd all be on wages much much less than those departing. The amount of money generated from the sale of the above players (with the addition of the money from Bassong) is a significant amount. So much so that we'd all be ecstatic if 2/3 of it was reinvested into the quad in the off-season (IF we earn promotion). If that amount of money was invested in bringing in new players in my opinion we'd be in a better position than we were when we kicked off season 2008/09. We'd have a lower wage bill, with a squad potentially of similar ability.

 

Financially it has benn a cleanout that had been a long time coming (not entirely finished of course with the likes of Barton hanging about).

[dbsweeney 0]

Financially it has benn a cleanout that had been a long time coming (not entirely finished of course with the likes of Barton hanging about).

 

Agree.

The relagation we had to have? And going all the way back to when we got rid of SBR?

 

It was the glory signings that's killed us, at the great expense of promoting younger talent.

 

However, with all the players that OzToonFan's mentioned, we've finally got ourselves to a significanty lower wage bill.

 

This is what Ashley's said he's wanted all along. Now we also have to see if he's a man of his word ( ) and will invest in up-and-commers that will deliver us a squad with depth but without the costs.

Edited February 1, 2010 by dbsweeney

[Craig 6700]

I said some time ago (before Ashley took over IIRC) that there was a need to clear outof the high paid under-performers and start again with a new generation. I think I also said that it might take relegation for that to happen.

 

The benefit of it however will only be realised if we do re-invest. Under the current stewardship, I can't see that happening - not to a satisfactory level that is.

 

Owning a football club is a bit similar to owning a car - you pay good money, get as much use out of it as possible and then either sell it off or retire it generally for a loss and then start the cycle once again. Ashley thinks its more liking owning a house IMO.

[Meenzer 15716]

Owning a football club is a bit similar to owning a car - you pay good money, get as much use out of it as possible and then either sell it off or retire it generally for a loss and then start the cycle once again. Ashley thinks its more liking owning a house IMO.

 

An asset that he paid over the odds for during a phase of inflation that anyone with half a brain recognised was fundamentally unsustainable and that he now stubbornly refuses to sell for less because he hasn't realised the market has changed and won't return to those conditions for another 5-10 years at least?

 

God it's depressing when you put it like that.

[Craig 6700]

Owning a football club is a bit similar to owning a car - you pay good money, get as much use out of it as possible and then either sell it off or retire it generally for a loss and then start the cycle once again. Ashley thinks its more liking owning a house IMO.

 

An asset that he paid over the odds for during a phase of inflation that anyone with half a brain recognised was fundamentally unsustainable and that he now stubbornly refuses to sell for less because he hasn't realised the market has changed and won't return to those conditions for another 5-10 years at least?

 

God it's depressing when you put it like that.

 

I know - the future's fucking shite isn't it?

 

I don't wish harm on anyone but I don't think a touch of 'Kinnear-syndrome' would go a miss...

[Isegrim 9897]

i think we'll come straight back down if we go up with Ashley still around unfortunately

Hardly any of the current players is good enough for the Premierleague, so a complete new set of players is needed just to have a squad that looks able to compete at the level.

 

Now we are linked with Leon Best. Oh dear.

[Holden McGroin 6783]

i think we'll come straight back down if we go up with Ashley still around unfortunately

Hardly any of the current players is good enough for the Premierleague, so a complete new set of players is needed just to have a squad that looks able to compete at the level.

 

Now we are linked with Leon Best. Oh dear.

 

+1

[TicTacWoe 0]

i think we'll come straight back down if we go up with Ashley still around unfortunately

 

As bad as the squad is a present I still reckon we'd have a decent chance of surviving in the PL in it's current state, I'd have us better than Wolves, Burnley, Hull, Portsmouth and close to Bolton, Wigan etc.

Edited February 2, 2010 by TicTacWoe

[Jackies the Lad 0]

i think we'll come straight back down if we go up with Ashley still around unfortunately

 

As bad as the squad is a present I still reckon we'd have a decent chance of surviving in the PL in it's current state, I'd have us better than Wolves, Burnley, Hull, Portsmouth and close to Bolton, Wigan etc.

 

And just about all of them will be in a fight for survival towards the end of the season.... if , IF we are promoted this is what we have to look forward to, can't wait for next season and yet another shit display of football with this lot!

[Kitman 2207]

Sorry but I think the answer is no. Not with the current owner and manager. I don't think Ashley will bankroll the players we need. I doubt Hughton can attract and manage top players, or has the nous or support to uncover hidden gems. If I was a decent player or agent, the sight of Derek Llambias waving his chequebook would cause me to laugh out loud as I swung the door in his face. Under this lot everything will remain on a shoestring ("we thought it right to stick with the players that got us promoted etc") and a season long relegation battle will follow.

 

For all we talk about trophy players and glory signings, it's going to be difficult to compete for the players we need to improve the team to prem standard, even with a good set up. Unless Leon Best is the new Beardsley, just getting a striker (or two) that can score the goals to keep us up is going to be expensive and difficult. That's without thinking about our trundling midfield. Given that Ashley has probably already trousered the previous transfer proceeds, they'll need to be bargains too.

 

To have any hope, Ashley needs to sell at the end of the season. To someone with deep pockets and without Ashley's stupidity.

[Christmas Tree 4821]

No

[Rob W 0]

If we go up we'll have had a season of some stability, a half decent manager and a squad that will struggle to make mid-table mediocrity.

 

A few quid spent say 4 players would make all the difference and see us in mid table next year I reckon

[bobbyshinton 59]

If we go up we'll have had a season of some stability, a half decent manager and a squad that will struggle to make mid-table mediocrity.

 

A few quid spent say 4 players would make all the difference and see us in mid table next year I reckon

 

 

aye. and a newcastle in the premier would atract better players than now. Moses would be ours if we had been in the top flight, thats carved in stone.

[ewerk 31195]

The benefit of it however will only be realised if we do re-invest. Under the current stewardship, I can't see that happening - not to a satisfactory level that is.

 

That's exactly the situation.

[donaldstott 0]

I have mixed feelings. You look at the list of players that have gone and you'd have to say that there is no way we are as well off.

 

But it has become very apparent that the business model was unsustainable. What is more, we have far fewer liabilities on the wage bill - Geremi, Owen, Viduka, Duff, Beye and Martins were either shit or missed too many games.

 

However the squad lacks quality and I think that we will need 3 midfielders and a striker significantly better than we have just to stay up.

[OTF 7485]

The key to it all of course is the investment into the squad.

 

Thus far with Ashley, excluding the initial purchase of Coloccini and Jonas we've seen nothing in the way of ambition with purchases. They've all (including the aforementioned two with the benefit of hindsight) come across as amateur or opportunistic deals struck by pretend businessmen. Someone else mentioned it - all of the players who the manager and chairman would proclaim as our first and primary targets who are just what we need are players who are available (or not available if you don't pay enough) on the cheap. They've got lucky with Williamson in that Portsmouth are in a diabolical situation, could have also got lucky with Moses from Palace (though they're both far from proven).

 

If two thirds of the money from recent outgoing sales were spent (and in theory there's no reason that they shouldn't be) I firmly believe we could have a squad that (withstanding horrendous injury troubles) could safely restabalise in the Premierleague, forming a foundation for gradual improvement over the next several seasons, culminating in Newcastle being back in the Top Half of the Premier League (by then who knows what financial malarky will have taken place at Liverpool and Manchester United!).

 

Sadly though I think the cretins in charge will greatly misunderestimate the investment required and as a result we'll spend another dreadfully depressing season trying to escape the clutches of relegation, desperately hoping that there's at least three teams that are worse than us.

[Kitman 2207]

Sadly though I think the cretins in charge will greatly misunderestimate the investment required and as a result we'll spend another dreadfully depressing season trying to escape the clutches of relegation, desperately hoping that there's at least three teams that are worse than us.

 

Yes, highly likely imo

[Rob W 0]

"investment" means there is a chance of getting your money back

 

"Blow a fortune" is more correct when it comes to building successful football teams

[ewerk 31195]

aye. and a newcastle in the premier would atract better players than now. Moses would be ours if we had been in the top flight, thats carved in stone.

 

The class of player we will be able to attract is dependent on the money Ashley is willing to spend.

[Happy Face 29]

Thus far with Ashley, excluding the initial purchase of Coloccini and Jonas we've seen nothing in the way of ambition with purchases.

 

I wouldn't go along with that.

 

I think Ashley genuinely wanted to make a go of it until he fucked up big style with Keegan and (rightly or wrongly) the fans reacted as we did.

 

He spent over £5m on six players, and every one of them was before THAT window...

 

Barton

Smith

Enrique

Gutierrez (not his choice to spend that much like)

Coloccini

Xisco

 

Only 2 of the 7 players sold for over £5m came prior to THAT window...

 

Parker

Dyer

Milner

N'zogbia

Given

Martins

Bassong

 

A clear switch in approach imo.

Edited February 3, 2010 by Happy Face

[OTF 7485]

Thus far with Ashley, excluding the initial purchase of Coloccini and Jonas we've seen nothing in the way of ambition with purchases.

 

I wouldn't go along with that.

 

I think Ashley genuinely wanted to make a go of it until he fucked up big style with Keegan and (rightly or wrongly) the fans reacted as we did.

 

He spent over £5m on six players, and every one of them was before THAT window...

 

£6mBarton

£5.8m Smith

£6.3mEnrique

£0m ended up being £5.2m Gutierrez (not his choice to spend that much like)

Up to £10.3mColoccini

£5.7mXisco

 

Only 2 of the 7 players sold for over £5m came prior to THAT window...

 

Parker

Dyer

Milner

N'zogbia

Given

Martins

Bassong

 

A clear switch in approach imo.

 

That is true, thought it seems like so long ago. Back in those days the moves had some semblance of ambition (though Xisco really was a completely daft signing). With the exception of Enrique and Gutierrez (though many would argue on that point) we unfortunately got slammed on all of those deals - though hindsight really is a wonderful thing.

 

Shay Given is missing from your list of players over £5m (£5.9m rising). The £5m is also just an arbitrary figure.

 

It doesn't take into account that in that time two of our highest paid players (in Owen and Viduka) have left without being replaced. N'Zogbia (£6m + R.Taylor), Milner (£12m), Duff (£4m), Martins (£9m) Bassong (£8m) and Given (£5.9m) weren't replaced (though a replacement for Given wasn't really needed). Emre (£3m), Rozehnal (£2.9m), Faye (£2.25) were all also sold more or less without replacements.

[Park Life 71]

Yes financially we will be.

[Happy Face 29]

Shay Given is missing from your list of players over £5m (£5.9m rising). The £5m is also just an arbitrary figure.

 

No he's not

 

It doesn't take into account that in that time two of our highest paid players (in Owen and Viduka) have left without being replaced. N'Zogbia (£6m + R.Taylor), Milner (£12m), Duff (£4m), Martins (£9m) Bassong (£8m) and Given (£5.9m) weren't replaced (though a replacement for Given wasn't really needed). Emre (£3m), Rozehnal (£2.9m), Faye (£2.25) were all also sold more or less without replacements.

 

All of which strengthens my point about his switch in approach from supportive chairman to assett stripping cunt.

[Park Life 71]

Shay Given is missing from your list of players over £5m (£5.9m rising). The £5m is also just an arbitrary figure.

 

No he's not

 

It doesn't take into account that in that time two of our highest paid players (in Owen and Viduka) have left without being replaced. N'Zogbia (£6m + R.Taylor), Milner (£12m), Duff (£4m), Martins (£9m) Bassong (£8m) and Given (£5.9m) weren't replaced (though a replacement for Given wasn't really needed). Emre (£3m), Rozehnal (£2.9m), Faye (£2.25) were all also sold more or less without replacements.

 

All of which strengthens my point about his switch in approach from supportive chairman to assett stripping cunt.

 

I would have sold all of those bar Faye, Bassong and Zoggy. Most were shit and the other rarely played due to inj. Given was unkeepable he played up so much iirc.

[Happy Face 29]

Shay Given is missing from your list of players over £5m (£5.9m rising). The £5m is also just an arbitrary figure.

 

No he's not

 

It doesn't take into account that in that time two of our highest paid players (in Owen and Viduka) have left without being replaced. N'Zogbia (£6m + R.Taylor), Milner (£12m), Duff (£4m), Martins (£9m) Bassong (£8m) and Given (£5.9m) weren't replaced (though a replacement for Given wasn't really needed). Emre (£3m), Rozehnal (£2.9m), Faye (£2.25) were all also sold more or less without replacements.

 

All of which strengthens my point about his switch in approach from supportive chairman to assett stripping cunt.

 

I would have sold all of those bar Faye, Bassong and Zoggy. Most were shit and the other rarely played due to inj. Given was unkeepable he played up so much iirc.

 

You would have bought replacements too though.