The F1 2010 thread

[Rob W 0]

Oooh, somebody better warn all the casinos. There's a highroller riding into town

To be honest, I half hope you are right seeing as you could have taken me for £100.

 

 

"You can never cheat an honest man nor smarten up a chump"

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Oh dear Nick Wirth strikes again:

 

Virgin to redesign car because fuel tank is too small

By Jonathan Legard

BBC F1 commentator

 

The new Virgin team are being forced to make major modifications to their car after discovering that its fuel tank is too small to get to the end of races.

 

Virgin, who entered Formula 1 this season, have asked governing body the FIA for permission to submit a new chassis for inspection.

 

The modified car will not be ready until the fifth race of the season, the Spanish Grand Prix on 9 May.

 

Technical boss Nick Wirth admitted the car's tank capacity was "marginal".

 

A senior F1 insider described the changes needed as a "significant modification" which would require the car to go through a series of mandatory crash tests again.

 

The FIA has circulated a note to the other 12 teams informing that Virgin have been given permission to change their fuel tank specification for reliability reasons - ie, if they were not allowed to do so, they would not be able to finish the races.

 

The team have been struggling with reliability so far in their debut season - both cars retired from the season-opening Bahrain Grand Prix by the 16th lap.

 

BBC Sport understands Virgin's fuel tank is about 13 litres too small to last a race distance and that the car could not reach the end of any of the next three races in Australia, Malaysia and China at full speed.

 

The team will have to make the chassis longer to fit in a bigger tank that can hold the required fuel loads - which are about 210 litres or 160kg of fuel.

 

F1 cars have carbon-fibre chassis which take months to make. Virgin will almost certainly be forced to cut off the back of their existing chassis and bond on a larger section at the rear.

 

Wirth said: "We recently applied to the FIA for permission to change the size of the fuel tank on the grounds of reliability and we are pleased that the FIA has granted us this permission.

 

"It has become clear during pre-season testing and our debut race in Bahrain that our fuel tank capacity is marginal and if not addressed there is the possibility that fuel pick-up could become an issue in certain circumstances.

 

"At the time that the design of the tank was locked down in June 2009, its capacity was determined by a number of factors, some of which have since changed and the tank capacity now needs to be increased accordingly.

 

"We thank the FIA for permitting this change, which we expect to introduce in the early part of the European season."

[Craig 6682]

Obviously wasn't counting on finishing any races at all - what an absolute fucking tool that bloke is

 

I hear Vettel's spark plug issue was a symptom, not a cause of his problems in Bahrain. He's reportedly got well arsey at Ron Dennis' claims that they were simply running out of fuel..

[DannyBoyFromOz 0]

Lewis Hamilton just been pulled over by Melbourne police after "dangerous driving" whilst leaving the Albert Park track.

[Craig 6682]

Lewis Hamilton just been pulled over by Melbourne police after "dangerous driving" whilst leaving the Albert Park track.

 

[DannyBoyFromOz 0]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/formula-o...o-1225846192192

 

was trying to find something to help explain

[Craig 6682]

It's on the BBC site - now. Charged for 'hooning' on the road?

 

Actually look at that linked article they mention Lakeside Drive. That's the back straight of the actual circuit - does that suggest they open the roads back up again to the public during the Grand Prix weekend?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/8589435.stm

[Guest alex]

It's on the BBC site - now. Charged for 'hooning' on the road?

 

Actually look at that linked article they mention Lakeside Drive. That's the back straight of the actual circuit - does that suggest they open the roads back up again to the public during the Grand Prix weekend?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/8589435.stm

Alf Stewart must help write the Parliamentary Bills over there.

Edited March 26, 2010 by alex

[Sonatine 11361]

He's a flaming galah tbf.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

It's on the BBC site - now. Charged for 'hooning' on the road?

 

Actually look at that linked article they mention Lakeside Drive. That's the back straight of the actual circuit - does that suggest they open the roads back up again to the public during the Grand Prix weekend?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/8589435.stm

Alf Stewart must help write the Parliamentary Bills over there.

[DannyBoyFromOz 0]

It's on the BBC site - now. Charged for 'hooning' on the road?

 

Actually look at that linked article they mention Lakeside Drive. That's the back straight of the actual circuit - does that suggest they open the roads back up again to the public during the Grand Prix weekend?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/8589435.stm

 

Lakeside Drive, as far as I know, extends from the track to an intersection which is maintained as public road whereas the circuit part of the road continues into a...circuit. It may not be "open" to the public as such but the road with which it intersects that he was pulled over on is all open.

 

As for these "hoon" laws, as stupid and Summer Bay sounding they are, were implemented in the past year or so to try and counteract and discourage illegal street racing and dangerous driving. Was thought that the threat of immediate impounding would be enough to keep some of those who value their cars so much from risking it.

[AgentAxeman 178]

from MSN

 

"Red Bull dominate Down Under

Vettel heads Red Bull one-two Down Under

 

 

Sebastian Vettel claimed pole for the second successive race as he led home a Red Bull one-two ahead of local favourite Mark Webber in qualifying for the Australian Grand Prix.

 

The German justified his status as pre-race favourite by wrapping up first place on the grid midway through Q3 when he clocked a time of one minute 23.919 seconds at the Albert Park circuit.

 

Melbourne's Webber, desperate to claim a maiden victory at his home grand prix, was just 0.116secs behind in second.

 

Ferrari's Fernando Alonso will line up third on the grid while reigning world champion and Jenson Button starts from fourth in his second race for McLaren.

 

It was a disappointing morning for fellow Briton Lewis Hamilton however, the 2008 world champion failing to progress from Q2 and thus starting way back in 11th on the grid.

Delighted

 

Brazilian Felipe Massa, who finished second in Bahrain two weeks ago, lines up fifth while Nico Rosberg edged out Mercedes team-mate Michael Schumacher to secure sixth, with the seven-time world champion starting from seventh.

 

Rubens Barrichello once again made it through to Q3 in his Williams and takes eighth on the grid with Renault's Robert Kubica and Adrian Sutil of Force India starting ninth and 10th respectively.

 

Speaking after qualifying, a delighted Vettal said: "It is a great result for both of us and for the team.

 

"It is a long race tomorrow but looking at qualifying today, I think we did well coming in with the car and improvements we made.

 

"The result says it all and I am looking forward to tomorrow."

 

Virgin Racing's Timo Glock and Lucas di Grassi - who are unlikely to be able to finish the race due to a design flaw with their fuel tanks - are in 21st and 22nd place while HRT's Bruno Senna and Karun Chandhok line up as they did in Bahrain in 23rd and 24th respectively."

[Toonraider 0]

Enjoyed todays race immensly! Great drive from Lewis granted, but the race illustrated everything I admire about Jenson and everything I dislike about Hamilton. Jenson is so mature, I rekon the team will love him.

[AgentAxeman 178]

Enjoyed todays race immensly! Great drive from Lewis granted, but the race illustrated everything I admire about Jenson and everything I dislike about Hamilton. Jenson is so mature, I rekon the team will love him.

 

 

it certainly seems that Jenson is now getting the handling on his car more to his liking. soooooooooper smooth driving all the way. he may not have the outright speed of Hamilton but he's so much easier on the car/tyres and it really paid dividends for him.

 

AND.......... it was nice to actually see some overtaking this time round. maybe they should whack the sprinklers on randomly at every track from now on!

[Meenzer 15518]

Tedious race. The season and the sport are doomed.

 

 

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Hamilton didn't have the best of weekends did he? Sounds like he's getting a bit rattled, he needs to act more maturely than arguing with his engineers whilst dicing with other drivers.

 

Vettel could have had 50 points by now with a little more luck with reliability. And how many times was Webber on the grass?

 

Is it too early to say Schumacher hasn't got a lot left in the tank?

[Meenzer 15518]

Is it too early to say Schumacher hasn't got a lot left in the tank?

He's been better outside of the races, so he might just be getting back to his race-distance stamina. Or maybe he'll never make it back. Certainly needs to start matching Rosberg before too long, anyway.

[Toonraider 0]

Tedious race. The season and the sport are doomed.

 

 

 

Unfortunately though it would probably have been another tedious race had it not rained. Lewis caught Massa and Alonso so quickly and was way quicker but still couldnt pass them.

 

Have to say again the BBC coverage is excellent. I particulary like the Forum after, good interviews in a less formal manner including the fab Martin Brundle too.

 

Though I love F1, bring on the BTCC next week I say! :angry: We will be away racing ourselves, but I have already set the Humax to record it and all the F1 sessions.

[Craig 6682]

Aye these new rules make it as boring as fuck like don't they?

 

Hope you're writing out your postal order as we speak Rob

[Craig 6682]

OK back to the important stuff, the racing.

 

Sorry Bev I don't agree with you about it being tedious if it hadn't rained. Melbourne is a far better 'driver's' circuit which invites drivers to have a go - even when it wasn't raining there was action all over the track. Bahrain is a boring, shitty Tilke circuit. We need more like Melbourne!!

 

In fact I'd go so far as to say it was the ruling on tyres which made the race. Under the new ruling a driver who has just pitted is at a massive advantage to those who haven't as opposed to last season where they were at a disadvantage on account of the extra fuel weight. And it showed - the way Lewis reeled in Alonso was amazing, but he screwed his tyres in doing so hence why he couldn't get past.

 

How many superlatives can be made about Jenson? Has the done the best thing possible to prove his doubters were talking shit - inside two races he's beaten Lewis fair and square and we can harp on about how unlucky and how the team didn't help him today all we like - Jenson has beaten him in nearly every session ALL weekend. I don't think they're crediting JB enough with regards to what he achieved on those slicks - 75% of the race distance on the softer compound? Every other driver must be shitting themselves when they think of all the high tyre wear circuits out on the calendar. Someone asked me the question earlier if I felt Button would have caught Vettel had he not retired. It's very marginal IMO and there's a damned good chance Vettel would have needed to stop again as he's as brutal on his tyres as Lewis is. What is definitely true is that if Button had kept it on the road when he'd first changed over he'd have been leading Vettel regardless and I doubt he'd have relinquished it.

 

Lewis.... oh dear oh dear oh dear! People are trying to mitigate his weekend by what happened Friday night - but that was all his own doing and frankly totally unprofessional. It clearly unhinged him for the rest of the weekend and for him to dare to push the blame onto the shoulders of a strategist within the team is a bit pathetic tbh. I hope Whitmarsh gives him a bollocking for it. For the first time since Alonso was there, he has someone at McLaren who is a challenge to him and he clearly doesn't like it. Tough shit Lewis, if you want to be the best you have to beat the best and Button is clearly one of those.

 

Red Bull - you can be as fast as you like but if reliability kicks you, speed is worth nothing. In 2009 they harped on about "if only the cars had been more reliable". Can't have too many more miles out of that excuse I'm afraid. 2 points when you started the race in a postion where you could get 43 is simply just not good enough. Vettel is unlucky but Webber lost his head this weekend on a number of occasions. When he understeered into the gravel by being overzealous with outbreaking, it was an amateur error. When he smacked into the side of Lewis late on, it was sheer schoolboy stuff.

 

Ferrari - solid but screwed their tyres in the mid section. Had to stick with it because they didn't know what Kubica was about but if they'd been second and third rather than third and fourth, I think they'd have pitted at the same time Lewis did and all three of them would have got closer to Button.

 

Kubica - awesome drive considering the car. Still a massively under-rated driver IMO and deserving of a better team.

 

Schumacher - struggled to pass Di Grassi (in a Virgin!) and Alguersari whilst his team mate was shadowing Hamilton and the Ferraris.... Get back to the nursing home Michael, your days are over!

 

Finally a big hats-off to Hispania for managing to finish a race. For a team that had absolutely zero track time come the first practice of the first race, what they've achieved today is immense. Stick that in your fat CFD pipe and smoke it Mr Wirth

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

OK back to the important stuff, the racing.

 

Sorry Bev I don't agree with you about it being tedious if it hadn't rained. Melbourne is a far better 'driver's' circuit which invites drivers to have a go - even when it wasn't raining there was action all over the track. Bahrain is a boring, shitty Tilke circuit. We need more like Melbourne!!

 

In fact I'd go so far as to say it was the ruling on tyres which made the race. Under the new ruling a driver who has just pitted is at a massive advantage to those who haven't as opposed to last season where they were at a disadvantage on account of the extra fuel weight. And it showed - the way Lewis reeled in Alonso was amazing, but he screwed his tyres in doing so hence why he couldn't get past.

 

How many superlatives can be made about Jenson? Has the done the best thing possible to prove his doubters were talking shit - inside two races he's beaten Lewis fair and square and we can harp on about how unlucky and how the team didn't help him today all we like - Jenson has beaten him in nearly every session ALL weekend. I don't think they're crediting JB enough with regards to what he achieved on those slicks - 75% of the race distance on the softer compound? Every other driver must be shitting themselves when they think of all the high tyre wear circuits out on the calendar. Someone asked me the question earlier if I felt Button would have caught Vettel had he not retired. It's very marginal IMO and there's a damned good chance Vettel would have needed to stop again as he's as brutal on his tyres as Lewis is. What is definitely true is that if Button had kept it on the road when he'd first changed over he'd have been leading Vettel regardless and I doubt he'd have relinquished it.

 

Lewis.... oh dear oh dear oh dear! People are trying to mitigate his weekend by what happened Friday night - but that was all his own doing and frankly totally unprofessional. It clearly unhinged him for the rest of the weekend and for him to dare to push the blame onto the shoulders of a strategist within the team is a bit pathetic tbh. I hope Whitmarsh gives him a bollocking for it. For the first time since Alonso was there, he has someone at McLaren who is a challenge to him and he clearly doesn't like it. Tough shit Lewis, if you want to be the best you have to beat the best and Button is clearly one of those.

 

Red Bull - you can be as fast as you like but if reliability kicks you, speed is worth nothing. In 2009 they harped on about "if only the cars had been more reliable". Can't have too many more miles out of that excuse I'm afraid. 2 points when you started the race in a postion where you could get 43 is simply just not good enough. Vettel is unlucky but Webber lost his head this weekend on a number of occasions. When he understeered into the gravel by being overzealous with outbreaking, it was an amateur error. When he smacked into the side of Lewis late on, it was sheer schoolboy stuff.

 

Ferrari - solid but screwed their tyres in the mid section. Had to stick with it because they didn't know what Kubica was about but if they'd been second and third rather than third and fourth, I think they'd have pitted at the same time Lewis did and all three of them would have got closer to Button.

 

Kubica - awesome drive considering the car. Still a massively under-rated driver IMO and deserving of a better team.

 

Schumacher - struggled to pass Di Grassi (in a Virgin!) and Alguersari whilst his team mate was shadowing Hamilton and the Ferraris.... Get back to the nursing home Michael, your days are over!

 

Finally a big hats-off to Hispania for managing to finish a race. For a team that had absolutely zero track time come the first practice of the first race, what they've achieved today is immense. Stick that in your fat CFD pipe and smoke it Mr Wirth

I thought Lewis was very immature in his reactions (I know he's still a young guy, but so are a lot of the others). Maybe he's missing having his Dad around him more than he thought, maybe its growing pains, who knows? "Why did you bring me in again for tyres but not Jenson?" Er, because you chewed yours up Lewis I can see the team warming more to Jenson as time goes on and Hamilton won't like that.

 

Brundle was alluding to Ferrari having Kubica lined up for next season as Massa's replacement.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Also, in those early laps when the track was damp, the old 'Regenmeister' Schumacher would've excelled.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Dr Kenneth Noisewater

[Craig 6682]

Kubica to Ferrari makes a lot of sense. Harsh on Felipe though who, given what he went through only 6 months ago has put in some awesome drives.

 

You can tell that Whitmarsh was mightily impressed with Jenson today. But then he has 7 more years experience of F1 than Lewis and I think that often gets forgotten.

 

Jenson appears to be like Prost (only JB can drive when it's wet ) whereas Lewis is seemingly more like Senna. Lewis is the greater racer but I think ultimately, Jenson is a better driver

[Toonraider 0]

I agree with what you say about Lewis Craig. I feel the team will really grow to loveJenson....everyone inside F1 knows Lewis is abit of a Primadonna and it showed yesterday. Personally I think he will improve without his father around. Incidentely, why isnt his father around?

Dont agree Lewis screwed his tyres in catching Alonso, as he caught up with him he was still doing amazingly quick laps, the tyres dont suddenly become worn just like that! Instantly he couldnt pass him, which was why he was so frustrated with the team. In a way I dont blame him, it turned out to be the wrong decision but maybe he should make his own call on tyres like Jenson did?!

 

Like Brundle I couldnt believe the driving advice Massa got from his engineer either! Its like F1 has got so technical that the drivers 'forget' to drive the car!!

[Craig 6682]

Given how Lewis (and others) were able to steam up behind drivers and get past them, you certainly can't say it wasn't down to the rubber.

 

The hints were given by Jenson in his interview in the forum. Said he pushed like hell to get past Kubica but knew by that point that Vettel was up to speed so what's the point in caning the tyres chasing him when he knew his car was kinder on the rubber meaning that he'd likely get past Vettel either via a pit-stop or simply pass him when the tyres were spent. Instead Jenson lifted to about 70% and cruised around (remember he dropped off Vettel from about a 3 second gap to a 6 second gap and maintained it).

 

Shows the maturity of Button IMO. Hamilton got new rubber and shot them in an attempt to catch the Ferraris. His hot headedness didn't help that because when his engineer told him he'd catch the Ferrari's by the end and he replied "You mean they don't have to stop??", he clearly buried the throttle harder.

 

Mike Gascoyne hit the nail on the head when he said "what's the point in changing, creating a 20 second gap that you need to close and by the time you do, your tyres are as useless as the man in front of you...". It wasn't all down to his tyres, but they were spent.