Terry Wogan

[Craig 6700]

My Dad's estate is liable for IHT. Not because he necessarily worked his bollocks off all his life (although he did) but more because he lost his Mam and Wife within 4 months of each other. The mortgage on his Mam's place had long been paid up and as the only child, my Dad was sole beneficiary of her house. When my Mam died a couple of months later, he exercised the 'death' trigger in their life assurance policy, paid off the mortgage and was left with 2 properties he owned outright. By the way, my folks never had it easy with money and they struggled to make ends meet for long periods.

 

As our house was a 5 bedroom place and we'd all left home by that point and his Mam's was a 2 bed bungalow, he did the sensible thing of sell the family house and move into his Mam's. Needless to say all the sale proceeds have since sat in a bank account earning interest although we've made damned sure he's done all the things he wanted to do in life and see the places he wants to while he still can rather than hold it back for us.

 

In this instance our family 'wealth' came about because of a set of circumstances I wouldn't wish on anyone. Are you telling me you think it's only right that the government should take a massive chunk of that as tax when it was a life assurance policy my parents were paying into for almost 34 years? Incidentally I hope my Dad lives to 100 rather than me 'eagerly anticipating his death'. Some will remember that this time last year he had a cancer scare which scared the fuck out of me - I don't want his money, I want him for as long as possible. But I don't agree with IHT - no fucking way!

 

Of course there are individual stories which are exceptions and there are decent people like you who think the "right way" - My Man spent the last years of her life worrying about having her house taken off her to pay for home care (cancer got there first) to the point where she signed it over to my brother but these stories only apply to the "little people".

 

They don't apply to people like Wogan who get paid far too much (of my fucking money which I also resent) and squirrel it away in all sorts of hidey-holes to stop the government getting at it. They have more than enough money to lead a decent life (and indulge their kids for that matter) but get so wrapped up in the status symbol of how much money they have that they go too far.

 

I know only 6% of people pay IHT (which kills the argument of how it affects everyone) and I also know the real rich avoid it anyway (see the deal the Queen did to avoid it for her mother) but I still feel its a fair contribution to society. Of course I'd also point out that it isn't "all" of the persons estate by a long way.

 

Fair enough but earlier in the thread you implied that anyone wishing to exploit a loophole to avoid inheritance tax was 'fucking scum'. I have no problem in admitting the fact that along with my Dad and my brothers, wedo all we can to minimise its impact which of course amounts to the £3K equity release as a 'gift' that you're allowed to carry out each 12 months.

[NJS 4411]

Fair enough but earlier in the thread you implied that anyone wishing to exploit a loophole to avoid inheritance tax was 'fucking scum'. I have no problem in admitting the fact that along with my Dad and my brothers, wedo all we can to minimise its impact which of course amounts to the £3K equity release as a 'gift' that you're allowed to carry out each 12 months.

 

 

Looking back that was too general - I mean the rich who bend over backwards and plan their get-outs for years using the parasites in the Financial Services and Legal industries to do so.

[Guest alex]

My view is, you've already paid tax on the earnings once so why the fuck should you have to pay it again? Anyway, don't you work in the city?

 

It's not the dead person who pays IHT - its the person who gets the "unexpected" windfall. I accept that tax may have been paid on it (but then again not always as non-paye people have other fiddles) but its still unearned income imo for the person who gets it. As I've also said before the arguments over IHT always include too many people who seem to be eagerly anticipating their parents death (whether unspoken or not) as a convenient and modern route into much sought after wealth which I find distasteful.

 

I have a PAYE job at a bank in the city - I don't see what's that got to do with it.

My point of view is the earnings have already had tax paid on them then the govt. wants someone to pay tax on them again. I don't have a problem with someone avoiding that. I'd also add that anyone who pays more tax than they need to is a fool to themselves. If you think someone acting like Wogan is wrong though you're looking at the wrong person to despise - it's the system to 'blame'.

Also, I don't know what bank you work for (perhaps it's an ethical one) but surely you can see how one might assume some of your wages are paid for by some of the unabashed greed you have issues with. I don't want this to seem like a personal attack btw as I have no problem with people working in the City. Good luck to you as far as I'm concerned.

I share some of your views about inherited wealth btw but I see a big difference between someone like Wogan passing on his wealth to his kids and a member of the aristocracy handing over a lot of land and/or housing etc. (since if you go back long enough you'll probably discover one of the latter's antecedents just stole a load of land).

I'm not even a fan of Wogan btw

Edited December 20, 2009 by alex

[NJS 4411]

My point of view is the earnings have already had tax paid on them then the govt. wants someone to pay tax on them again. I don't have a problem with someone avoiding that. I'd also add that anyone who pays more tax than they need to is a fool to themselves. If you think someone acting like Wogan is wrong though you're looking at the wrong person to despise - it's the system to 'blame'.

 

As I said I get the already paid argument but I just think theres a difference between "obvious" tax evasion - for example when I was a contractor taking dividends instead of salary which reduced the tax - versus taking it "seriously" as the rich and people like Wogan do. I know it sounds like I'm splitting hairs but I think its about levels. Again he already has more than enough to live on so I just feel its taking the piss for the sake of it.

 

 

Also, I don't know what bank you work for (perhaps it's an ethical ones) but surely you can see how one might assume some of your wages are paid for by some of the unabashed greed you have issues with. I don't want this to seem like a personal attack btw as I have no problem with people working in the City. Good luck to you as far as I'm concerned.

 

I'm a hypocrite I know (seriously) - I've mainly worked in two industries which from a political/intellectual pov I despise but wanting to make a decent living has always won - no offence taken. Of course I don't think what I call wanting a decent living compares with the mega-riches we're on about here - as I said its about levels.

 

I share some of your views about inherited wealth btw but I see a big difference between someone like Wogan passing on his wealth to his kids and a member of the aristocracy handing over a lot of land and/or housing etc. (since if you go back long enough you'll probably discover out of their antecedents just stole a load of land.

I'm not even a fan of Wogan btw

 

Absolutely - the top of my hate pyramid is the aristocracy (and the churches) especially as you say because of the undoubted theft in history. However I would argue that going forward it will be the descendants of people like Beckham, Cowell etc who will be the "aristocracy" of the future. I accept that money now is earned within the system/society but the kids should make their own money imo.

Edited December 20, 2009 by NJS

[ChezGiven 0]

NJS should come and work in France, they love all that commie crap ower here.

 

Very high taxes mind.

[NJS 4411]

NJS should come and work in France, they love all that commie crap ower here.

 

Very high taxes mind.

 

I don't necessarily support high taxes - I just support fair ones. By that I mean no engineered evasion and no excessive inherited wealth.

[Kitman 2207]

NJS should come and work in France, they love all that commie crap ower here.

 

Very high taxes mind.

 

I don't necessarily support high taxes - I just support fair ones. By that I mean no engineered evasion and no excessive inherited wealth.

 

You might not like it but you can't stop legitimate tax avoidance. Governments have been trying for centuries and haven't succeeded yet. That's what wrong with the current tax system, it's like trying to plug a leaky bucket one hole at a time. The government's piecemeal approach and over-complication of the rules doesn't help, but also tax law is complex and difficult to administer/enforce.

 

Most governments the world over have resorted to dropping tax rates as that actually increases tax revenues. Unfortunately these days labour and capital are fairly mobile, and people/companies will just sod off somewhere better if they don't like the rules. So there has to be a balancing act between raising revenue and preserving the tax base, and it needs a long term view not a series of quick fixes.

 

What's "fair" in terms of tax is completely subjective. Fairness starts with having a system that's understandable, efficient, fit for the modern world and treats people equally. The UK tax system is none of those things imo.

[Monkeys Fist 43067]

This is an extremely topical thread, given the time of year.

After all , Jeesus was hammered with tacks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok , sorry, I'll fuck off.

[Kitman 2207]

This is an extremely topical thread, given the time of year.

After all , Jeesus was hammered with tacks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok , sorry, I'll fuck off.

 

[Craig 6700]

This is an extremely topical thread, given the time of year.

After all , Jeesus was hammered with tacks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok , sorry, I'll fuck off.

 

Come back at Easter man!

[ChezGiven 0]

NJS should come and work in France, they love all that commie crap ower here.

 

Very high taxes mind.

 

I don't necessarily support high taxes - I just support fair ones. By that I mean no engineered evasion and no excessive inherited wealth.

 

You might not like it but you can't stop legitimate tax avoidance. Governments have been trying for centuries and haven't succeeded yet. That's what wrong with the current tax system, it's like trying to plug a leaky bucket one hole at a time. The government's piecemeal approach and over-complication of the rules doesn't help, but also tax law is complex and difficult to administer/enforce.

 

Most governments the world over have resorted to dropping tax rates as that actually increases tax revenues. Unfortunately these days labour and capital are fairly mobile, and people/companies will just sod off somewhere better if they don't like the rules. So there has to be a balancing act between raising revenue and preserving the tax base, and it needs a long term view not a series of quick fixes.

 

What's "fair" in terms of tax is completely subjective. Fairness starts with having a system that's understandable, efficient, fit for the modern world and treats people equally. The UK tax system is none of those things imo.

 

Some great points there, especially about what constitutes a fair tax system. How you treat people equally is a tough balance since tax plays a dominant role in people's welfare. The tax system is the economy, which is what provides people with jobs from companies thriving under the system. Or not as the case may be.

 

Defining fair is actually quite difficult, as it doesnt mean equal.

[Monkeys Fist 43067]

This is an extremely topical thread, given the time of year.

After all , Jeesus was hammered with tacks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok , sorry, I'll fuck off.

 

Come back at Easter man!

Like the Christian calendar is accurate....

[Rob W 0]

funnily enough the people who want low taxes also seem to want more spent on Police/Prisons/Roads/Airports/Universities/Home Care/Defence........................

 

the people with the highest average tax rates - such as Norway and Sweden have very high average standards of living - odd that