Barney 0 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 How do you plan to use your votes like? Say there's a decision to be made and you put it up for vote and end up with a 75% vs 25% result with extra voting power given to higher investors. If you had four shares in the trust would you enter 3 votes one way and one the other? Or all 4 with the majority? Or would the members be grouped from the get-go and polls would be held amongs contributers to each individual share? ie 4 shares...4 polls. Perhaps it would be worth setting up a survey to group like minded fans in the same share. So for example, when it comes to voting on whether anyone outside of a 2 mile radius from Newcastle can get into the stadium I don't have Stevie voting against me in my group. ....not that I'm taking part like Aww come on HF, please dont spoil our fun...... I wouldn't dream of it. I have the highest hopes for the whole endeavour. Can't wait to see *insert name of Ameobi hater* blow his stack when forced to vote in favour of giving Ameobi a new contract though How much say do the Barca fans have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibble 0 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 I'm not sure how current the figures are but a webtrawl reveals the following: Barca has over 155,000 "socis" ("socios" or "members") who each pay up to €140 annually for the privilege. The socis govern the club by electing a president of the board of directors every four years. Randomly selected members are appointed to serve as delegates to the general assembly, which approves the annual budget. Most Spanish clubs, including Real Madrid, are run in the same manner Only members can buy season tickets, with membership fees contributing to the overall price of the ticket. When they join, the club presents all new members with the bronze badge. To show its appreciation and recognition of long-term loyalty to the club, FC Barcelona awards people who have been members for 25 years with a silver badge, those who have been members for 50 years with a gold badge and those who celebrate 75 years as members with a gold and shining badge. Sign me up for £100 into the forum kitty. I hope to do more via other routes upon conclusion of "local negotiations"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 175 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Count me in, finances depending of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 ....................... you aren't the only senile old cunt on here after all. Gratifying news to know I am not the only one and have some peers on here. There's RobW as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 If each entity can only have one share, then surely Toontastic can only make one investment. Can we really stack up several of them at £1,500 each? This is the problem, as you say its one vote per person/ entity therefore if we have multiple shares then they would need to be in the name of a different person (and by that logic, a person who knows they never want to own a share of their own and without sounding dodgy, isnt going to bugger off one day and cash it in). A toontastic share in its own name will need to be a single share. Maybe we do look to implement just one with differing levels of investment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 99 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 If each entity can only have one share, then surely Toontastic can only make one investment. Can we really stack up several of them at £1,500 each? This is the problem, as you say its one vote per person/ entity therefore if we have multiple shares then they would need to be in the name of a different person (and by that logic, a person who knows they never want to own a share of their own and without sounding dodgy, isnt going to bugger off one day and cash it in). A toontastic share in its own name will need to be a single share. Maybe we do look to implement just one with differing levels of investment? Id think just one share. We should gain more than than the £1,500 required for a share, but then the objective isnt to buy one share, but to raise as much cash as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibble 0 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Maybe we do look to implement just one with differing levels of investment? Given that it's one member one vote irrespective of whether you're putting in £1,500 cash or £25k pension it would make sense to be able to have the option to put in multiples of £1,500. One of the things that I find most refreshing about the buyout proposal - and hard to get my head around - is that it goes against the usual model of "the more you invest the more your power". I'd support chucking all toontastic contributions into one pot for one share and if anyone wants to withdraw their contribution at a later date they'd be responsible for finding a replacement investor. Keep it simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7083 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 yeah, one share....as much as we can raise. Our voting can be done on here by poll... well in the secret forum for shareholders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 So what we're saying is that if a person forks out £1500 for a share, he then can't be part of a 'syndicate' on other shares? A person can't buy a share in his own name, then have hundreds/thousands of other shares via 'syndicates' with him and his daughter; his son; his wife; his auntie Vera; his father etc etc, thereby giving him hundreds/thousands of votes ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 yeah, one share....as much as we can raise. Our voting can be done on here by poll... well in the secret forum for shareholders. Don't forget 'Fiddy'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 So what we're saying is that if a person forks out £1500 for a share, he then can't be part of a 'syndicate' on other shares? A person can't buy a share in his own name, then have hundreds/thousands of other shares via 'syndicates' with him and his daughter; his son; his wife; his auntie Vera; his father etc etc, thereby giving him hundreds/thousands of votes ? I see no reason why I cant own my investment and be part of one here, one at work, one down the pub etc. What you were getting at would be people starting their own for the purposes of gaining votes, thats never stoppable though, if we said you couldnt be part of others then they would just buy the share in son, wife, auntie Vera, fathers names etc they wouldnt need to be down as a syndicate with them. Buy them in those names and get them to vote how he wants. I dont believe that when an organisation such as this buys a share the finance people will ask for the names of all involved. I'll check it out to be sure though. I would imagine however that we'll need some written agreement in the same way that syndicates for the lottery are supposed to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 99 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 So what we're saying is that if a person forks out £1500 for a share, he then can't be part of a 'syndicate' on other shares? A person can't buy a share in his own name, then have hundreds/thousands of other shares via 'syndicates' with him and his daughter; his son; his wife; his auntie Vera; his father etc etc, thereby giving him hundreds/thousands of votes ? Its a fair point. I understand the idea of one member one vote, no matter the value of their investment. But, whats to stop someone buying two "votes" in different names etc? Take me, I might take up my own share, but also be in a TT one, that doesnt mean I get two votes, because I could vote differently to TT, but I could influence a TT vote. Then what if I want to get one with a business partner? Is that classed as another, or if its in the name of the business then does that not count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 So what we're saying is that if a person forks out £1500 for a share, he then can't be part of a 'syndicate' on other shares? A person can't buy a share in his own name, then have hundreds/thousands of other shares via 'syndicates' with him and his daughter; his son; his wife; his auntie Vera; his father etc etc, thereby giving him hundreds/thousands of votes ? Its a fair point. I understand the idea of one member one vote, no matter the value of their investment. But, whats to stop someone buying two "votes" in different names etc? Take me, I might take up my own share, but also be in a TT one, that doesnt mean I get two votes, because I could vote differently to TT, but I could influence a TT vote. Then what if I want to get one with a business partner? Is that classed as another, or if its in the name of the business then does that not count? See my post above, I'll find out exactly whats what (and of course it will all be fully documented when the finance stuff comes out). As I said, I cant see how its possible to stop people buying shares for other people and then influencing their vote, no matter what, thats possible. What it does do though is stop any one individual saying "I have x% of the shares therefore I want .......". They can try and influence the decision however unlike a share options where there are say 10m individual shares and you know you own 6m of them therefore 60% of the vote, in this case you wouldnt have a clue how many others were out there, you could technically buy yourself 10,000 shares thinking it would give you the Presidency however there could be another 20k people voting for your rival, he himself may have bought 10,001 shares! If you owned your share plus one with work and a bit in here then you're only guaranteed to get one vote going the way you want. The other two could go the opposite way. I think those big names that put in millions for their vote already have an advantage come election time (should they want to go for it), pointing out that they love the club enough to invest £10m has to be a canny vote winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibble 0 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) So what we're saying is that if a person forks out £1500 for a share, he then can't be part of a 'syndicate' on other shares? A person can't buy a share in his own name, then have hundreds/thousands of other shares via 'syndicates' with him and his daughter; his son; his wife; his auntie Vera; his father etc etc, thereby giving him hundreds/thousands of votes ? I'd have thought you should be able to go in a syndicate (under a syndicate name) and buy one share in your own name. And only be able to stand for election if you have a share in your own name. Should syndicates even have a vote? What about regarding syndicate contributions as a one-off payment towards the buy-out pot, with any bonuses on syndicate shares automatically reinvested in the club. That would get round the problem of distributing 1-2p bonuses to syndicate members. I guess this boils down to whether you have to/want to treat small-syndicates in the same way as individual named shareholders. If it got shot of the FCB many people might not care if they ever saw their £50-£150 syndicate money again, let alone got a return on it. But I know I'd want to see a return on £1,500 even if I then chose for it to go to the cllub. Edited November 14, 2009 by Bibble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7083 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 how about toontastic's 2% pays for the site? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 A toontastic share in its own name will need to be a single share. Maybe we do look to implement just one with differing levels of investment? Toontastic isn't investing as a legal entity though, is it? What's to stop us having toontastic, prawntastic and noelie-tastic, for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 A toontastic share in its own name will need to be a single share. Maybe we do look to implement just one with differing levels of investment? Toontastic isn't investing as a legal entity though, is it? What's to stop us having toontastic, prawntastic and noelie-tastic, for example? I think we should get as many shares as is available when we add up what people are willing to pay, because the whole point of this is to raise enough to buy out the fat cunt in charge, so i don't see any point in turning down money from here if its there. Obviously people will have to work out some faur way that everyone is happy with of how things are split up, but the more we can contriubute from here the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanTheMan 0 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'll put 30 quid in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry 0 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'm not bothered about voting rights. Just lump it all into one share as far as I'm concerned. If anyone's keen on the voting rights they're probably looking to invest for a full share of their own. Or should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heatonrifles 18 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 i've only registered on here to be part of this, if it happens. if it can bring a lurker like me to bother registering then i reckon it's got legs... having said that, i'm skint, so put me down please in the 50-100 bracket. cheers hr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 i've only registered on here to be part of this, if it happens.if it can bring a lurker like me to bother registering then i reckon it's got legs... having said that, i'm skint, so put me down please in the 50-100 bracket. cheers hr wahey, welcome aboard now get out there and sell a kidney to buy a full stake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3368 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 i've only registered on here to be part of this, if it happens.if it can bring a lurker like me to bother registering then i reckon it's got legs... having said that, i'm skint, so put me down please in the 50-100 bracket. cheers hr wahey, welcome aboard now get out there and sell a kidney to buy a full stake Easy up Pud, just by his username, you know he must be in a bit of a Jam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 i've only registered on here to be part of this, if it happens.if it can bring a lurker like me to bother registering then i reckon it's got legs... having said that, i'm skint, so put me down please in the 50-100 bracket. cheers hr wahey, welcome aboard now get out there and sell a kidney to buy a full stake Easy up Pud, just by his username, you know he must be in a bit of a Jam Bet he was no match for the Boys Brigade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 i've only registered on here to be part of this, if it happens.if it can bring a lurker like me to bother registering then i reckon it's got legs... having said that, i'm skint, so put me down please in the 50-100 bracket. cheers hr wahey, welcome aboard now get out there and sell a kidney to buy a full stake Easy up Pud, just by his username, you know he must be in a bit of a Jam Thats fair enough but if he comes out to play then theres a price to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heatonrifles 18 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 cheers for the welcome lads, have been very entertained by some of the crack on here in recent months. wish i'd thought up a few bad puns linked to my user name before i registered. spose it's too late now to make a, err, start, like? eh? eh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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