£2,500 for a share in the club?

[Guest alex]

Surely once the initial investment is used up to buy the club and clear the debts there would be enough income through ticket sales, merchandising, corporate sales and tv licensing to keep things ticking over? How do the other clubs mentioned who do it manage things?

You have to pay an annual membership at Barca. I think it's about 150 Euros. That doesn't include a season ticket. I'm not sure if having a ST automatically makes you a member at places like that. Probably does at a guess.

[PaddockLad 17124]

Surely once the initial investment is used up to buy the club and clear the debts there would be enough income through ticket sales, merchandising, corporate sales and tv licensing to keep things ticking over? How do the other clubs mentioned who do it manage things?

 

there aren't any.

 

Ebbsfleet are non league and have a "comittee" of thousands of voters who decide everything

 

AFC Wimbledon were sset up by a few very rich fans of Wimbledon FC who own and run the club themselves.

 

Barecelona are a worldwide institution and the symbol of the old independant state of Catalunya who elect a president every few years who can count on massive financial backing from world renowned bodies eg UNICEF.

 

What NUST are proposing hasnt been done before with a club our size in this country.

[TheMoog 0]

Surely once the initial investment is used up to buy the club and clear the debts there would be enough income through ticket sales, merchandising, corporate sales and tv licensing to keep things ticking over? How do the other clubs mentioned who do it manage things?

 

there aren't any.

 

Ebbsfleet are non league and have a "comittee" of thousands of voters who decide everything

 

AFC Wimbledon were sset up by a few very rich fans of Wimbledon FC who own and run the club themselves.

 

Barecelona are a worldwide institution and the symbol of the old independant state of Catalunya who elect a president every few years who can count on massive financial backing from world renowned bodies eg UNICEF.

 

What NUST are proposing hasnt been done before with a club our size in this country.

 

Hmm, doesn't fill me with confidence then...

[Guest alex]

Barcelona have never had a sponsor and they pay UNICEF rather than the other way round as it's a humanitarian wing on the United Nations. They make their money off their members and ST although they have sponsors' boards round the ground iirc.

[Chaser 1207]

Barca have a bigger fanbase than ours though. I think its obvious that the billionaires coming into the game have destroyed the competition for other teams that dont have it, to the point that theyve destroyed football. There are only a handful (2 or 3 actually) who could win the Premiership, and the same goes for the cups. Once in a blue moon theres a cup shock and thats it. Football will implode financially sooner or later. Clubs cannot keep on spending the kind of money which isnt sustainable and relies upon a sugar daddy to throw money at it.

 

I like the idea of being owned by the fans, but worry about the long term sustainability. I think it would be a good tool to prise the club out of Ashleys hands only to see it sold on again, but this time with the fans having their say on who gets it.

[Guest alex]

If Uefa really did get strict about the turnover to wages ratio it might make a difference on that score. Although I suspect that might be challenged in European courts even if it was brought in. That said, I think there are regulations governing that in Italy now.

The point about Barca was they do it without a sponsor but need massive annual contributions from members etc. We'd be doing it with a sponsor and more TV money than you get in Spain (although obviously we're some way from getting the CL tv money at present). We're not anywhere near competing with someone like Barcelona anyway now though, it's about getting the club on an even keel for the present. I'd be dead against it though if it was just buying the club to hand over complete ownership when the economy picks up. That's back to square one (Ashley has us about 3 steps behind square one but that's by the by). A partial fan ownership with another party or parties owning, say 50% of the club, would be a different matter.

[Dr Gloom 21846]

barca and real get fuckloads of tv revenue compared to most other spanish clubs - that's from la liga rights in addition to champions league as it's not distributed as evenly as it is in the premiership.

 

while i salute the nust for their efforts here and willing to take the fight to ashley, i don't think it will work.

 

we need a wealthy investor who gives a shit about the club. it's all the more the galling that there doesn't seem to be one out there that can put us out of this misery.

[Guest alex]

Fair enough, I didn't know that about La Liga but Barcelona's a long way off anyway. I'm sceptical about this working myself but I'm intrigued and excited enough by the possibility not to dismiss it out of hand at the same time.

[Kitman 2204]

It's hard to imagine things could be worse if the club was owned by the supporters. Sacking LLambias and bringing in some experienced football administrators to run the club would be a big step for starters. It's not necessary for the club to be fully funded by the supporters, but there would need to be a sustainable business model.

 

With the Barca model, my sense is that the club presidency gets the incumbent major political and commercial benefits during/afterwards. So they're happy to work for nowt and I expect they bring in finance and their own backing too to help them get elected. I think that's what happens at Madrid. It's not realistic to expect the same, we'd need to appoint and pay professionals and pay our own way through what we can earn, raise from supporters and borrow sustainably.

 

I've got an open mind about this. It would be fantastic to buy the club off Ashley. Whether he'd sell it is another matter entirely.

[snakehips 0]

Very interesting. I would probably stump up the cash, but I have to say I have my fears this could all work.

 

We will have to wait to see the details, but would the £100m need to be in an account first before LardAsh considers selling or would he agree to sell at a certain price and then have to wait for the money to come in to an account? Getting the money is going to be fairly tricky I would have thought as promises don't always materialise.

 

And my concerns about fans on the board are well documented

 

We'll see what details emerge.

 

EDIT: I have to admit to being extremely bewildered how NUST can say they already have £20-odd million 'pledged' by some way or other. If that is true, I can't see how anyone didn't come in with a joint venture to buy the club? Obviously I don't have any of the details regarding that money, so I am completely open-minded about it; I'm just perplexed at how it's been 'raised' (I say it that way, as I'm guessing there isn't an actual account with the money in as yet?).

 

Overall, having the club owned (or partly owned) by fans is exceedingly appealing, but concerns about how it would work are inevitably there. If these ideas could come to fruition, it would be a monumental moment in the history of Newcastle United Football Club. To get across to current supporters the huge significance of it would be daunting; those that understood the importance and recognised the historical implications (telling grandchildren in 50 years time about what a person did to achieve it - not to mention the grandchildren proudly exclaiming to their friends "my grandad/grandma played a part in the taking control of the club") would be far more likely to make a commitment. Pity we couldn't just storm it like the Bastille - far cheaper and far, far more satisfying seeing the fat cunt up against the wall a la Ceausescu.

Edited November 6, 2009 by snakehips

[peasepud 59]

KD you are right to be wary, Id call anyone who was blindly saying "Im in" a fool. What I dont understand though is this "theres more holes in the plan..." statement, how? you've not seen the plan other than a basic overview. Wait until Monday and get the facts before trying to blow it out of the water however I can assure you that you, me and everyone else on here that isnt involved in high finance will have problems doing that. Its been pored over by the great and the good of pensions, football investment and the like and all want to be involved. None of the companies, banks and pension companies have come back and said "Im out" all have seen it as a workable and credible way of running a football club, more importantly all have seen it as something people would invest in.

 

The sustainability has already been reviewed and we believe that there is a workable plan in place, this football club could sustain itself, theres currently 44k coming through the gates, we know that as a Premiership club, even a struggling one we can clear 50k every game (3k of which have to be taken out of the picture as theyve already handed the next 2 years money over to fatty).

 

Theres no issue with getting the club on an even keel, smarter people than me (thats just about everyone then) have gone through the plan with a fine tooth comb and they are very interested in taking part.

 

Theres also no reason why there has to be a limit on the numbers involved, as I said earlier, it only takes 8k investors to raise 200million, every additional 40 @£25,000 each gets you another million pound but results in an annual payout of only £2,000 in interest payments. Compare that to the £120,000 that we pay for each million of the overdraft and the figures start to look very rosy.

 

This club has been in debt for years, theres nothing to say that under the fans ownership it wouldnt go into debt again, what is a definite is that under this scheme we wont go into debt for making shady deals, underhand purchases of South American crocks to keep agents happy or paying £30k a week to some cockney dwarf because hes a mate. Any debt would be because we were purchasing players, players who with the right scouting structure and management team would have a good chance of actually playing a game for us and not just sit on the sidelines for "PR purposes".

 

Add in the other plans to turn the club into the hub of the community, bring it back to the fans overall and make it the focal point of the city. Football academies across the region, annual youth tournaments and working within the community day in day out will all help ensure that the local young talent doesnt go astray. Some of those will make it and go on to play for the club others would be sold on as promising players and recoup the outlay. More importantly it returns the feel good factor back to the club, that in turn increases ticket sales, shirt sales and other money coming into the club.

 

The big difference between this and other share schemes there've been is that this is a long term investment not a quick hit on the shares market (which failed so badly last time). Its a vehicle for people to invest knowing they have a good chance of making a little bit of interest on it, at the same time as making a big difference at the club. Pension funds are things people put their money into and forget about, not check each day to see if its worth taking it out, nobody is going to get rich out of this plan, my £25k will probably earn me a little bit less in the long term than where its sitting now but Im lucky I have a good pension with work and can afford to move what is a small chunk of it into this. Maybe in time, I could look to move more, who knows? what I do know is that for what probably amounts to literally pennies when Im 65 I can be making a difference to the football club I love.

 

Snakeys right though, if this works then it will be the most monumental thing to happen, not only to Newcastle United but British football. We are being watched closely by the world of football here. There are a number of clubs dying to do this but waiting for someone else to step up and go for it, Liverpool, Man U and others have been looking to buy their clubs for ages, now they're desperate to see if we make it, all are interested in the method though.

 

If it works then all the fans will be hailed for years to come as the people who saved this club, if it drops miserably and becomes a total abject failure then there a dozen of us who will be mocked but what the fuck? we gave it our best shot and failed, as long as nobody else is out of pocket then theres no harm done.

 

If you dont have concerns about the scheme then you're a fool and can just bung your cheques to peasepud at toontastic and I'll make sure theyre put to good use.

 

The rest of you though just need to read all the stuff that will be coming out, go speak to one of the financial advisors we are employing and get the full info and what it means to you personally. Then go and speak to financial people you know that you trust and get them to confirm that its not some scam. I would hope that nobody blindly follows us in this, I havent. Even though I know everyone of the people involved at our end and trust them I read everything I was given before committing my backing to it and more importantly committing a chunk of my future.

 

I would hope you all do the same, if you're happy with the idea but cant afford to invest on your own then look to get others involved and make up a collective, even if you just cant get involved at all then please back it with your support.

[Park Life 71]

Barcelona have never had a sponsor and they pay UNICEF rather than the other way round as it's a humanitarian wing on the United Nations. They make their money off their members and ST although they have sponsors' boards round the ground iirc.

 

Correct. Barca's key relationships are with the banks and the pride of the local region. At a rough guess, regardless of ownership or buying a share in the club we could count on a worldwide membership of around 100,000 at least - although this would take 2/3 years to mature. Once people see the benefits of initially owning a share of the club (voting rights for a president/ rebates in season ticket price etc), other avenues of brand loyalty through membership rather than ownership can develop in the short to medium term.

[Park Life 71]

Barca have a bigger fanbase than ours though. I think its obvious that the billionaires coming into the game have destroyed the competition for other teams that dont have it, to the point that theyve destroyed football. There are only a handful (2 or 3 actually) who could win the Premiership, and the same goes for the cups. Once in a blue moon theres a cup shock and thats it. Football will implode financially sooner or later. Clubs cannot keep on spending the kind of money which isnt sustainable and relies upon a sugar daddy to throw money at it.

 

I like the idea of being owned by the fans, but worry about the long term sustainability. I think it would be a good tool to prise the club out of Ashleys hands only to see it sold on again, but this time with the fans having their say on who gets it.

 

I don't think there is any core correlation between supporter ownership and pride and the need for immediate success on the pitch.

[Park Life 71]

KD you are right to be wary, Id call anyone who was blindly saying "Im in" a fool. What I dont understand though is this "theres more holes in the plan..." statement, how? you've not seen the plan other than a basic overview. Wait until Monday and get the facts before trying to blow it out of the water however I can assure you that you, me and everyone else on here that isnt involved in high finance will have problems doing that. Its been pored over by the great and the good of pensions, football investment and the like and all want to be involved. None of the companies, banks and pension companies have come back and said "Im out" all have seen it as a workable and credible way of running a football club, more importantly all have seen it as something people would invest in.

 

The sustainability has already been reviewed and we believe that there is a workable plan in place, this football club could sustain itself, theres currently 44k coming through the gates, we know that as a Premiership club, even a struggling one we can clear 50k every game (3k of which have to be taken out of the picture as theyve already handed the next 2 years money over to fatty).

 

Theres no issue with getting the club on an even keel, smarter people than me (thats just about everyone then) have gone through the plan with a fine tooth comb and they are very interested in taking part.

 

Theres also no reason why there has to be a limit on the numbers involved, as I said earlier, it only takes 8k investors to raise 200million, every additional 40 @£25,000 each gets you another million pound but results in an annual payout of only £2,000 in interest payments. Compare that to the £120,000 that we pay for each million of the overdraft and the figures start to look very rosy.

 

This club has been in debt for years, theres nothing to say that under the fans ownership it wouldnt go into debt again, what is a definite is that under this scheme we wont go into debt for making shady deals, underhand purchases of South American crocks to keep agents happy or paying £30k a week to some cockney dwarf because hes a mate. Any debt would be because we were purchasing players, players who with the right scouting structure and management team would have a good chance of actually playing a game for us and not just sit on the sidelines for "PR purposes".

 

Add in the other plans to turn the club into the hub of the community, bring it back to the fans overall and make it the focal point of the city. Football academies across the region, annual youth tournaments and working within the community day in day out will all help ensure that the local young talent doesnt go astray. Some of those will make it and go on to play for the club others would be sold on as promising players and recoup the outlay. More importantly it returns the feel good factor back to the club, that in turn increases ticket sales, shirt sales and other money coming into the club.

 

The big difference between this and other share schemes there've been is that this is a long term investment not a quick hit on the shares market (which failed so badly last time). Its a vehicle for people to invest knowing they have a good chance of making a little bit of interest on it, at the same time as making a big difference at the club. Pension funds are things people put their money into and forget about, not check each day to see if its worth taking it out, nobody is going to get rich out of this plan, my £25k will probably earn me a little bit less in the long term than where its sitting now but Im lucky I have a good pension with work and can afford to move what is a small chunk of it into this. Maybe in time, I could look to move more, who knows? what I do know is that for what probably amounts to literally pennies when Im 65 I can be making a difference to the football club I love.

 

Snakeys right though, if this works then it will be the most monumental thing to happen, not only to Newcastle United but British football. We are being watched closely by the world of football here. There are a number of clubs dying to do this but waiting for someone else to step up and go for it, Liverpool, Man U and others have been looking to buy their clubs for ages, now they're desperate to see if we make it, all are interested in the method though.

 

If it works then all the fans will be hailed for years to come as the people who saved this club, if it drops miserably and becomes a total abject failure then there a dozen of us who will be mocked but what the fuck? we gave it our best shot and failed, as long as nobody else is out of pocket then theres no harm done.

 

If you dont have concerns about the scheme then you're a fool and can just bung your cheques to peasepud at toontastic and I'll make sure theyre put to good use.

 

The rest of you though just need to read all the stuff that will be coming out, go speak to one of the financial advisors we are employing and get the full info and what it means to you personally. Then go and speak to financial people you know that you trust and get them to confirm that its not some scam. I would hope that nobody blindly follows us in this, I havent. Even though I know everyone of the people involved at our end and trust them I read everything I was given before committing my backing to it and more importantly committing a chunk of my future.

 

I would hope you all do the same, if you're happy with the idea but cant afford to invest on your own then look to get others involved and make up a collective, even if you just cant get involved at all then please back it with your support.

 

Developments throughout the region in conjunction with the club would also qualify for EU money if the money was for academies or access centres for sport and other social side benefits. Regeneration through sport is well recognised by EU mutual funds as a way of regeneration and job creation.

[DubiousBobcat 0]

I am personally very interested in this idea and would do anything to raise the £2,500 to be a part of it. However, who is to say Ashley will sell? I am still under the impression there is some kind of conspiracy going on with Ashley and his intentions with our club. I mean, he could have sold to Moat. Why did he not use his get out of jail card there? Even if the fans doubled what he wanted, I could see statements such as "the end of the week" and then Ashley changing his mind or making up new stipulations. I can't get my head around the whole fiasco. It just seems to me he is gradually turning us into the largest Sports Direct outlet.

[trophyshy 7073]

you callin' me a fool Pud?

[snakehips 0]

I am personally very interested in this idea and would do anything to raise the £2,500 to be a part of it. However, who is to say Ashley will sell? I am still under the impression there is some kind of conspiracy going on with Ashley and his intentions with our club. I mean, he could have sold to Moat. Why did he not use his get out of jail card there? Even if the fans doubled what he wanted, I could see statements such as "the end of the week" and then Ashley changing his mind or making up new stipulations. I can't get my head around the whole fiasco. It just seems to me he is gradually turning us into the largest Sports Direct outlet.

 

Someone on NO had a brilliant idea. If a thousand or so supporters went into a direct sport shop - just to browse - for half an hour, it would cause chaos. No damage, no pilfering, just a thousand folk browsing at the same time. Would this not help reduce his earnings and reduce just a hint of smugness off the fat fuck's face??? I'm up for it.

[Asprilla 96]

I like the idea of being owned by the fans, but worry about the long term sustainability. I think it would be a good tool to prise the club out of Ashleys hands only to see it sold on again, but this time with the fans having their say on who gets it.

 

To be fair, I think it's the ONLY way to ensure sustainability. I can see a lot of clubs getting into real trouble down the road (I realise we already are, but we're in a lot less debt than some). It would be great if we could be ahead of the curve and get our hands on the thing that ultimately, only the fans have the right to own.

[trophyshy 7073]

If anyone could buy in at any time wouldn't that ensure ongoing funds or would the plan be to 'cap' ownership?

[NJS 4375]

I've just read this as I thought at first glance it was going to be naive and simplistic (apologies PP) but I now see it's a serious plan and I'm very interested.

 

 

As an unreformed lefty who's been "forced" to embrace the idea of pension funds, I have to say the idea of being able to invest in something I care about rather than in some stock market based, capitalist bullshit fund is particularly appealing.

 

I look forward to the details.

[Ketsbaia 0]

I like the idea of being owned by the fans, but worry about the long term sustainability. I think it would be a good tool to prise the club out of Ashleys hands only to see it sold on again, but this time with the fans having their say on who gets it.

 

To be fair, I think it's the ONLY way to ensure sustainability. I can see a lot of clubs getting into real trouble down the road (I realise we already are, but we're in a lot less debt than some). It would be great if we could be ahead of the curve and get our hands on the thing that ultimately, only the fans have the right to own.

 

David Conn has written another fantastic article in the Grauniad today about how fucked Bolton and other clubs of their ilk are if they go down. It's bizarre to think that so many clubs are just one bad season away from total disaster - the top four live in fear of not making it into the Champions League and around 10 of the other clubs in the Premier League would 'do a Leeds' should they go down. There are very few that are secure.

 

In a way we're fortunate Ashley is cash rich enough to keep us going. Shame he's a tight cunt who got us relegated.

[ewerk 30367]

I am personally very interested in this idea and would do anything to raise the £2,500 to be a part of it. However, who is to say Ashley will sell? I am still under the impression there is some kind of conspiracy going on with Ashley and his intentions with our club. I mean, he could have sold to Moat. Why did he not use his get out of jail card there? Even if the fans doubled what he wanted, I could see statements such as "the end of the week" and then Ashley changing his mind or making up new stipulations. I can't get my head around the whole fiasco. It just seems to me he is gradually turning us into the largest Sports Direct outlet.

 

Someone on NO had a brilliant idea. If a thousand or so supporters went into a direct sport shop - just to browse - for half an hour, it would cause chaos. No damage, no pilfering, just a thousand folk browsing at the same time. Would this not help reduce his earnings and reduce just a hint of smugness off the fat fuck's face??? I'm up for it.

 

Tbf it's unlikely to bring his empire crashing down.

[maggiespaws 0]

I'm still a little skeptical if I'm honest, about several aspects of this but I do think the idea has merit. Obviously, when more info comes out next week () I'd love for some of the things I'm skeptical about to dissappear.

 

Without going into it all now, I'd say if I become convinced it's doable; then I'm in.

[lQmmel 0]

I dont post much at these boards but thought I'd comment on this.

 

I like the idea, but think it might sound a little unrealistic.

If it were to launch, will the stocks be registered on the "normal" stock market?

If it does, and Im able to buy it in Denmark, I will deff pay 2,5k or maybe more from my pension. Should everything go tits up, and I end up loosing my money, then so be it. Of course Id like some guarantee that we get paid back if nothing happens but Im 26 and Im sure Ill do without 2,5k in 40 years time.

What Im sayind is, if there is a chance we could get rid of the current owners, Id rather invest and risk loosing my money than sit and do nothing.

[snakehips 0]

Would be great if a local bank (Newcastle Building Society ??) could offer some deal for Newcastle United supporters to get a loan for the £2.5k. Business for them, and it would surely help thousands of folk obtain the money for something they could be really interested in.

 

Just thinking aloud.