ewerk 30550 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 I can't believe that some people actually believe that Keegan wanted £25m. He filled for 25m so what makes you think otherwise? Did he fuck You didn't read what the tribunal said then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30550 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Well that's understandable, you were probably too busy with work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 or trying to find some Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6682 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 I can't believe that some people actually believe that Keegan wanted £25m. He filled for 25m so what makes you think otherwise? Did he fuck You didn't read what the tribunal said then? Nope Jesus christ Tom FWIW I think he was well within his rights to claim for that amount. The shit they were saying about him with regards to wanting players that were in cloud-cuckoo land (Henry for instance), they could well have damaged his name and reputation such that he'd never find work at this level again. Having trawled my arse through legal proceedings myself for the last 3 years, I learned very quickly that you had to claim for as much as you can as in reality what you get is always somewhere in between what the two parties feel. If KK went for the £2m and the £2m alone, he'd probably have ended up with fuck all and the tribunal proved that it would have been an unfair outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Having trawled my arse through legal proceedings myself for the last 3 years, I learned very quickly that you had to claim for as much as you can as in reality what you get is always somewhere in between what the two parties feel. If KK went for the £2m and the £2m alone, he'd probably have ended up with fuck all and the tribunal proved that it would have been an unfair outcome. Exactly right Craig. It's like doing a second-hand car deal: The seller thinks the car is worth one price (probably higher than its actual value); the buyer offers something much lower (usually less than the cars market value) and after a bit of dancing around they settle on something in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2204 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Having trawled my arse through legal proceedings myself for the last 3 years, I learned very quickly that you had to claim for as much as you can as in reality what you get is always somewhere in between what the two parties feel. If KK went for the £2m and the £2m alone, he'd probably have ended up with fuck all and the tribunal proved that it would have been an unfair outcome. Exactly right Craig. It's like doing a second-hand car deal: The seller thinks the car is worth one price (probably higher than its actual value); the buyer offers something much lower (usually less than the cars market value) and after a bit of dancing around they settle on something in the middle. To my mind the amount of the compensation is irrelevant. Keegan isn't some kind of corporate raider trying his luck to get away with something by making himself a nuisance. The tribunal found he was at best misled and at worst lied to, consistently undermined, forced out of his job by making intolerable demands and then smeared through the press with no right of reply. It's a matter of cause and effect, and we now know where the blame lies for this. It would be disgraceful to treat any manager like this, let alone a United legend but they did it. What a bunch of arseholes. That's what the tribunal is saying. Anybody who chooses to focus on what Keegan claimed, probably on the advice of his lawyers, is missing the point entirely imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrossthepond 877 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id...and&cc=5901 With video link: KK says he's ready to return to management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 99 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Having trawled my arse through legal proceedings myself for the last 3 years, I learned very quickly that you had to claim for as much as you can as in reality what you get is always somewhere in between what the two parties feel. If KK went for the £2m and the £2m alone, he'd probably have ended up with fuck all and the tribunal proved that it would have been an unfair outcome. Exactly right Craig. It's like doing a second-hand car deal: The seller thinks the car is worth one price (probably higher than its actual value); the buyer offers something much lower (usually less than the cars market value) and after a bit of dancing around they settle on something in the middle. To my mind the amount of the compensation is irrelevant. Keegan isn't some kind of corporate raider trying his luck to get away with something by making himself a nuisance. The tribunal found he was at best misled and at worst lied to, consistently undermined, forced out of his job by making intolerable demands and then smeared through the press with no right of reply. It's a matter of cause and effect, and we now know where the blame lies for this. It would be disgraceful to treat any manager like this, let alone a United legend but they did it. What a bunch of arseholes. That's what the tribunal is saying. Anybody who chooses to focus on what Keegan claimed, probably on the advice of his lawyers, is missing the point entirely imo. Pretty much agree with all thats said here. It wasnt just that they misled him, wasnt just that they pushed ahead with the signing he firmly stated he wanted nothing to do with, they then blatantly lied to him, the press, and the fans. When he left, they then embarked on a dirty crusade against him. all the while, he maintained a dignified silence as you should in the lead up to a tribunal etc. You're bang on saying those who focus on the £25M are missing the point. They are not only missing it but just dont understand the whole thing thats been going. Its not just a case of KK saying " I dont like this, Im off". The LMA full report open my eyes even further about the shambolic way they are trying to run the club. What worse is that we've only heard what was necessary for this tribunal. Scratching the surface imo. They are nothing but poison to this club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 "I don't think it's on to return back there now, I think the fans have had enough of that but you never know in football." Come home Keggy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc 0 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 "I don't think it's on to return back there now, I think the fans have had enough of that but you never know in football." Come home Keggy! We aint had enough cos we want the club to have as good a manager as poss - FINISH BUSINESS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6682 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Wishes it had never happened and that he was still at the club he loves with them being in the Premiership. anti-KK lot can choke on that line for me. If KK was all about money, he'd be back like a shot once Ashley goes. I don't think he ever will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2204 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Having trawled my arse through legal proceedings myself for the last 3 years, I learned very quickly that you had to claim for as much as you can as in reality what you get is always somewhere in between what the two parties feel. If KK went for the £2m and the £2m alone, he'd probably have ended up with fuck all and the tribunal proved that it would have been an unfair outcome. Exactly right Craig. It's like doing a second-hand car deal: The seller thinks the car is worth one price (probably higher than its actual value); the buyer offers something much lower (usually less than the cars market value) and after a bit of dancing around they settle on something in the middle. To my mind the amount of the compensation is irrelevant. Keegan isn't some kind of corporate raider trying his luck to get away with something by making himself a nuisance. The tribunal found he was at best misled and at worst lied to, consistently undermined, forced out of his job by making intolerable demands and then smeared through the press with no right of reply. It's a matter of cause and effect, and we now know where the blame lies for this. It would be disgraceful to treat any manager like this, let alone a United legend but they did it. What a bunch of arseholes. That's what the tribunal is saying. Anybody who chooses to focus on what Keegan claimed, probably on the advice of his lawyers, is missing the point entirely imo. Pretty much agree with all thats said here. It wasnt just that they misled him, wasnt just that they pushed ahead with the signing he firmly stated he wanted nothing to do with, they then blatantly lied to him, the press, and the fans. When he left, they then embarked on a dirty crusade against him. all the while, he maintained a dignified silence as you should in the lead up to a tribunal etc. You're bang on saying those who focus on the £25M are missing the point. They are not only missing it but just dont understand the whole thing thats been going. Its not just a case of KK saying " I dont like this, Im off". The LMA full report open my eyes even further about the shambolic way they are trying to run the club. What worse is that we've only heard what was necessary for this tribunal. Scratching the surface imo. They are nothing but poison to this club. Aye well that's my feeling too, imo there was probably a load of different incidents leading up to deadline day and the Gonzalez signing was where Keegan chose to draw the line. We all know Wise is an arrogant little cock and I reckon he would have taken every chance to lord it over Keegan and his staff, no doubt with Llambias' and Ashley's backing. The tribunal gives an insight into how the club is really run - a bunch of cronies surrounding a fuckwitted arsehole of an owner, lacking any idea how to run a PL club and acting on impulse and whim. Keegan could see a crock of shit when it was held under his nose and he refused to be pushed about by a bunch of know-nowt pricks who were taking the club backwards. I think that's the bottom line personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id...and&cc=5901 With video link: KK says he's ready to return to management. That's a tearjerker like. You know he's being genuine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 33121 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 KK: The panel were very fair, they made a judgement. It would have been better if it never happened, I was still at Newcastle and we were still in the Premiership. And I think we would have been. Says it all, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42378 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I can't believe that some people actually believe that Keegan wanted £25m. He filled for 25m so what makes you think otherwise? What are your thoughts on Owen , Phil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 So where are these two "useful" South American agents now we need favours in return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonatine 11361 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) Well, one of them is under investigation for fraud Revealed: The agent at centre of Keegan deal THE Sunday Sun can today shed dim new light on the transfer which forced Kevin Keegan out of Newcastle – and later won him his case for constructive dismissal. We can reveal that just days after United signed Nacho Gonzalez as “a favour to two influential South American agents”, the middle man in the deal was accused of a massive tax fraud in Uruguay. And Uruguayan “super agent” Paco Casal is still facing a tax evasion claim at one point said to be worth more than $100 million. The signing of Gonzalez against Keegan’s wishes – after he was told by Newcastle’s then director of football Dennis Wise to look the Uruguayan up on YouTube – convinced the Magpies’ former Messiah to quit St James’s Park. In the Premier League arbitration hearing into Keegan’s compensation claim against the club, United admitted to signing Gonzalez as a “commercial deal” to curry favour with the pair of South American agents. And the agent who set up the bizarre Gonzalez deal is Casal – a hugely influential and controversial figure in his native Uruguay. Gonzalez arrived at Newcastle from Valencia in August 2008, almost immediately after joining the Spanish side from Uruguayan club Danubio – a deal also brokered by Casal. Casal’s status as the Mr Big of Uruguayan football had seen him secure transfers for a string of the country’s top players – some of whom he part-owned – to European clubs. But when he engineered the three-way Gonzalez deal, Casal was already said by Uruguay’s tax authority, DGI, to owe an astonishing $104.5m in unpaid taxes, mostly on transfers of Uruguayan players to Europe. Having investigated Casal’s (below) business dealings for six years, DGI froze $25m of his assets in April 2008 – four months before Gonzalez arrived on Tyneside. And Casal was then accused of actual tax fraud in September 2008. Although the criminal case against him was dropped in July this year, Casal still faces a civil action from DGI. And the idea that Newcastle signed Gonzalez – and paid him an estimated £1m in wages – to win over someone like Casal will be widely seen as yet another indictment of the club’s decline under owner Mike Ashley. Meanwhile, former chairman Freddy Shepherd has revealed his sadness at the revelations thrown up by the Keegan case. Shepherd, who only reluctantly sold his stake in United to Ashley in 2007, said: “The only real losers here are the football club, the city and the fans. “Forget Kevin Keegan, Mike Ashley and the players – they are only passing through – the club stands steadfast. That is the loser.” Edited October 4, 2009 by Sonatine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jusoda Kid 1 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Would love to see Wise and Ashley dragged into some fraud case, would be tremendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 With KK's record for getting teams back into the top flight in style, and the unfinished business with the club he loves, I would do back-flips if he came back as boss again if and when the sale goes through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMoog 0 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 With KK's record for getting teams back into the top flight in style, and the unfinished business with the club he loves, I would do back-flips if he came back as boss again if and when the sale goes through. Sadly I think he's had his fingers burnt sufficiently that no future owner of NUFC would be able to tempt him back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6682 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 He'll not come back, I'm convinced of it.... Wouldn't be surprised if Marcus Evans isn't having a word in his ear either - how gutting would that be? KK managing another club in the same division as us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc 0 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 With KK's record for getting teams back into the top flight in style, and the unfinished business with the club he loves, I would do back-flips if he came back as boss again if and when the sale goes through. Sadly I think he's had his fingers burnt sufficiently that no future owner of NUFC would be able to tempt him back I'd like to think it would more be the case of a new owner realising the opportunity we'd have with Keegan and not having cliched cynical view about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc 0 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) Why would getting KK back at nufc potentially be looked on as crazy? "Theres more than just 1 manager out there" "blinded by sentiment", "it will end in tears", "short-sited". Think about it more though. It is actually short sited to dismiss Keegan as a candidate for the job in my opinion. If it has been proved that KK was forced out the club, then why should the feeling people had for him last year be any different now? It has been proved his position was untenable, and that he was effectivley stitched up. This has been done so by him taking those con men to court to get the truth out. In fact, he had to do it regardless, because those con men were going to sue him for 2m (even though they, as a fact, forced him out themselves). It is utterly irrelevant what price his lawyers have put onto reputation damages as a) Its common high price tactics, the point isnt thinking they would ever get anything near because they obviously (nor KK) didnt, that was calculating a loss in potential future earnings through repuation damage Ashley could have caused until he is - 65! b.) Keegan wanted his reputation cleared through evidence and accpted this instead of going for any money, as long the truth came out. Its there on paper. On the football side where it matters - Keegan is a very good manager. He, after a slow start, managed get a very poor Newcastle team playing quality football, resotring confidence. He took the decision when fighting relegation to utalise the biggest strength of the squad in his opinion - the 3 strikers. It was a masterstroke to put Owen in a deeper role as it played perfectley into his style of play at this stage of his career. He's supposedly out of touch with the game according to cynics, yet he still had enough contacts in the game to bring in unknown Seb Bassong for example. Yes, there ARE other managers out there. The thing is - we dont exactly have Guus Hiddink knocking on our door! ANY manager is a risk, its ALWAYS a risk. Obviously you want to minimise that risk, and some cynics might say "not with KK" - well, no, not if the owner is Mike Ashley or someone just as incredibily stupid is the owner. "It will end in tears because he might not do well and tarnish his status" .... But he could very likely actually do very well! And if that was to be the case, wouldlnt that be what this game is ultimately about? And isnt it something worth striving for? And it comes back to that, not only could he do very well as oppose to badly, but the chances are he WOULD do very well, bcause again, HES ACTUALLY A VERY GOOD MANAGER. "Obsessed with legends" ... ok, but again, isnt the status and appreciation someone can work hard for and gain a big side of football, and a big part of what attracts us to the game? Really, when you think about it, thinking about memories of the game? Isnt that romantic aspect something that should not be looked down at? Even more so in the game these days where cheating is more common than ever, more & more souless stadiums bieng rolled out, fans bieng outpriced, superfictial hype more & more constant? The notion of Keegan coming back that 2nd time as manager for unfinished business - potentially lifting a trophy or pushing the club forward, restoring pride & potentially european football - while in the manner he'd no doubt want - that notion was brilliant, special, and would have been uncredibly satisfying. The notion now of him coming back for a 3rd time as manager with fire in his belly, unfinished business more than ever, putting right Ashley total mess, and going on to do well and take the club forward, restoring pride - because he is actually very much capable of doing so sentiment aside - is something that should not be ignored & dismissed. Personally, I'd wouthout a doubt persue it. Edited October 4, 2009 by timnufc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I'm sure Keegan would love to come back, it's only the owners who've ever messed him around, not the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now