Sir Bobby Robson --- Thanksgiving

[The Fish 10849]

I honestly remember the complete opposite. Most people iirc thought 'Souness? Fuck me, we've done Blackburn a favour there'. Obviously some people had him down as a 'top boss' but we won't go there.

 

that's how I remember it. Can't remember anybody saying much opsitive about him. I think a few people voiced their concerns, but added "well... maybe he'll sort out the dressing room a bit" as a bit of straw clutching.

 

I think there was a hesitant step towards positivity after that spell of games (mostly in Europe) where we actually looked like we might do all right under Graeme Souness.

[Craig 6682]

Managed to find these two threads on it all....

 

Robson given the chop

 

Souness quits as Blackburn manager

 

Interesting to particularly note some of the initial feelings about Robson's sacking.

[The Fish 10849]

(Gejon @ Aug 30 2004, 01:04 PM)

or Balde, as i said in the other thread i would LOVE for us to get Boumsong but from all the sounds coming out of Rangers there doesn't seem much chance unless we offer ££££££££

 

 

QUOTE (MidfieldGeneral @ Sep 6 2004, 10:28 AM)

what happens if he has a falling out with someone like Bellamy or Bowyer and they end up being left on the sidelines as a result of the mans fucking childishness ?

 

[donaldstott 0]

Souness was quite a petty man.

 

After Bellamy gave an interview with Sky after the injury faking incident at Arsenal, Souness came to the next press conference and point blank refused to talk about Bellaz to the TV, then walked it to the press and radio room and talked about it openly. All to get back at Sky.

[The Fish 10849]

I've never understood how, when things are so obvious to the layman, that people who're in the profession can be oblivious to it.

 

Souness being shit, a need for a certain position to be filled, that going for the win leaves you with options but going for the draw does not.

 

 

Everybody was aware of these bar the men in charge.

[donaldstott 0]

I often wondered what the label pin that SBR wore meant? Anyone know?

[Guest alex]

His cancer charity?

[donaldstott 0]

I'm not sure, it could be. The logo of the Foundation features a football and the pin looks not dissimilar.

[ewerk 30559]

I see Capello has sued the NOTW and donated his damages to the SBR foundation, fair play to him.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

Probably not really the time or place but if you really want to be truthful about it the there was only two things wrong with getting rid of Robson - the timing and the replacement (and the latter is in itself a symptom of the former).

 

Can't really argue with that one to be honest. We'd all accepted that his time was coming to an end and most expected a natural handover to Shearer at the end of the 04/05 season.

 

IIRC that whole month of August 2004 was an unmitigated disaster. We sold Speed without SBR knowing, then he found out that he was going to be replaced at the end of the season through the press. Then we sold Woodgate with no viable replacement lined up, the we had the incident where Dyer threw the armband away at Middlesbrough, then the ridiculous bid for Rooney.

 

And then we sacked Robson - 36 hours before the transfer window closed. Utter madness.

 

not me. i never thought he should have been sacked.

 

i thought at the time that we were had been spoiled by the success we had under him and the majority on here assumed dark times like we're in now were not possible again. problem is the grass isn't always greener. we had one of the most revered managers in the game at the time and we didn't treat him with the respect he deserved.

 

of course the whole situation was made much worse by several baffling decisions by shepherd - timings of sackings, appointing the likes of souness and roeder etc

 

but if you ask me the problem with the kind of success we enjoyed under robson is that it breeds impatience among fans (and in our case, the board). it may be some time again until we're finishing in and around the top 4 for three consecuitve seasons. i wonder if we'll be as fickle next time....assuming there is a next time

The problem was basically a lack of 'planning'.

It was though. He had his 70th birthday when he was here and there should have been something in place whereby he handed over the reins but, as was ever the case with the previous regime, managerial appointments were reactive decisions taken without foresight. You only get rid of someone like Robson if you have a better replacement and you don't do it at the start of a season just before the transfer window closes. Obviously you can't plan for every eventuality but to not have a firm plan in place for the eventual replacement of a septuagenarian in your employment is nothing short of reckless. Presumably they thought managers would be knocking their door down to come here but that wasn't the case at that time so we ended up with Souness and the rest is history. Saying he should never have been sacked is a massive oversimplification though.

 

is that really the case?

 

i think it's simple really.

 

sack a manager without good reason, replace him with numpty like souness....you can only expect to reap what you sew.

 

in my view (the same now as it was then), you don't sack a sucessful manager, not least one whose main fault was to drop out of the top 4 by one place after two seasons in the top 4.

 

it is all the more galling when you consider our relative success before hand and since.

 

were we really in a position that we could demand sir bob's resignation after years starved of success - or even mixing it with the big boys for a brief period like we did under robson?

 

time has proved that shepherd, and a majority of our support's judgment was massively misplaced.

 

i was one of the few on this board that defended robson when many were saying his time had come, he'd lost the dressing room etc. bollocks. you can't sack one the best managers your club has ever had after he has re-establisged you as a major force just to dismiss him again as soon as soon as things don't go as planned.....and bear in mind the majority of us these days would consider 5th place a massive achievemennt, not a blip..

Edited September 24, 2009 by Dr Gloom

[Guest alex]

Probably not really the time or place but if you really want to be truthful about it the there was only two things wrong with getting rid of Robson - the timing and the replacement (and the latter is in itself a symptom of the former).

 

Can't really argue with that one to be honest. We'd all accepted that his time was coming to an end and most expected a natural handover to Shearer at the end of the 04/05 season.

 

IIRC that whole month of August 2004 was an unmitigated disaster. We sold Speed without SBR knowing, then he found out that he was going to be replaced at the end of the season through the press. Then we sold Woodgate with no viable replacement lined up, the we had the incident where Dyer threw the armband away at Middlesbrough, then the ridiculous bid for Rooney.

 

And then we sacked Robson - 36 hours before the transfer window closed. Utter madness.

 

not me. i never thought he should have been sacked.

 

i thought at the time that we were had been spoiled by the success we had under him and the majority on here assumed dark times like we're in now were not possible again. problem is the grass isn't always greener. we had one of the most revered managers in the game at the time and we didn't treat him with the respect he deserved.

 

of course the whole situation was made much worse by several baffling decisions by shepherd - timings of sackings, appointing the likes of souness and roeder etc

 

but if you ask me the problem with the kind of success we enjoyed under robson is that it breeds impatience among fans (and in our case, the board). it may be some time again until we're finishing in and around the top 4 for three consecuitve seasons. i wonder if we'll be as fickle next time....assuming there is a next time

The problem was basically a lack of 'planning'.

It was though. He had his 70th birthday when he was here and there should have been something in place whereby he handed over the reins but, as was ever the case with the previous regime, managerial appointments were reactive decisions taken without foresight. You only get rid of someone like Robson if you have a better replacement and you don't do it at the start of a season just before the transfer window closes. Obviously you can't plan for every eventuality but to not have a firm plan in place for the eventual replacement of a septuagenarian in your employment is nothing short of reckless. Presumably they thought managers would be knocking their door down to come here but that wasn't the case at that time so we ended up with Souness and the rest is history. Saying he should never have been sacked is a massive oversimplification though.

 

is that really the case?

 

i think it's simple really.

 

sack a manager without good reason, replace him with numpty like souness....you can only expect to reap what you sew.

 

in my view (the same now as it was then), you don't sack a sucessful manager, not least one whose main fault was to drop out of the top 4 by one place after two seasons in the top 4.

 

it is all the more galling when you consider our relative success before hand and since.

 

were we really in a position that we could demand sir bob's resignation after years starved of success - or even mixing it with the big boys for a brief period like we did under robson?

 

time has proved that shepherd, and a majority of our support's judgment was massively misplaced.

 

i was one of the few on this board that defended robson when many were saying his time had come, he'd lost the dressing room etc. bollocks. you can't sack one the best managers your club has ever had after he has re-establisged you as a major force just to dismiss him again as soon as soon as things don't go as planned.....and bear in mind the majority of us these days would consider 5th place a massive achievemennt, not a blip..

You seem to have ignored most of what I said because you've repeated some of it. You said he should never have been sacked, my point was - ok maybe not 'sacked' - he needed to be replaced at some point because of his age. I think it's a weak argument to say that what has happened since disproves the need to have brought in a replacement. All it showed was the timing was wrong and there was a lack of foresight. We're where we are now because of mismanagement, not because we should have held onto Robson indefinitely / until he was ready to leave. He clearly has lost the dressing room to a degree as well imo, no matter how you dress it up. Again, I've already said he shouldn't have been fired when he was and he shouldn't have been replaced by Souness. And yes, I know 5th would be a major achievement now but look at how the team actually played that year, it showed signs of a declining performance. With that in mind I'd say he either needed to be backed to re-invest heavily or replaced the previous summer. Failing that, we should have given him until the end of the season and looked at it again (barring a disastrous campaign which I think was highly unlikely anyway).

[Dr Gloom 21912]

Probably not really the time or place but if you really want to be truthful about it the there was only two things wrong with getting rid of Robson - the timing and the replacement (and the latter is in itself a symptom of the former).

 

Can't really argue with that one to be honest. We'd all accepted that his time was coming to an end and most expected a natural handover to Shearer at the end of the 04/05 season.

 

IIRC that whole month of August 2004 was an unmitigated disaster. We sold Speed without SBR knowing, then he found out that he was going to be replaced at the end of the season through the press. Then we sold Woodgate with no viable replacement lined up, the we had the incident where Dyer threw the armband away at Middlesbrough, then the ridiculous bid for Rooney.

 

And then we sacked Robson - 36 hours before the transfer window closed. Utter madness.

 

not me. i never thought he should have been sacked.

 

i thought at the time that we were had been spoiled by the success we had under him and the majority on here assumed dark times like we're in now were not possible again. problem is the grass isn't always greener. we had one of the most revered managers in the game at the time and we didn't treat him with the respect he deserved.

 

of course the whole situation was made much worse by several baffling decisions by shepherd - timings of sackings, appointing the likes of souness and roeder etc

 

but if you ask me the problem with the kind of success we enjoyed under robson is that it breeds impatience among fans (and in our case, the board). it may be some time again until we're finishing in and around the top 4 for three consecuitve seasons. i wonder if we'll be as fickle next time....assuming there is a next time

The problem was basically a lack of 'planning'.

It was though. He had his 70th birthday when he was here and there should have been something in place whereby he handed over the reins but, as was ever the case with the previous regime, managerial appointments were reactive decisions taken without foresight. You only get rid of someone like Robson if you have a better replacement and you don't do it at the start of a season just before the transfer window closes. Obviously you can't plan for every eventuality but to not have a firm plan in place for the eventual replacement of a septuagenarian in your employment is nothing short of reckless. Presumably they thought managers would be knocking their door down to come here but that wasn't the case at that time so we ended up with Souness and the rest is history. Saying he should never have been sacked is a massive oversimplification though.

 

is that really the case?

 

i think it's simple really.

 

sack a manager without good reason, replace him with numpty like souness....you can only expect to reap what you sew.

 

in my view (the same now as it was then), you don't sack a sucessful manager, not least one whose main fault was to drop out of the top 4 by one place after two seasons in the top 4.

 

it is all the more galling when you consider our relative success before hand and since.

 

were we really in a position that we could demand sir bob's resignation after years starved of success - or even mixing it with the big boys for a brief period like we did under robson?

 

time has proved that shepherd, and a majority of our support's judgment was massively misplaced.

 

i was one of the few on this board that defended robson when many were saying his time had come, he'd lost the dressing room etc. bollocks. you can't sack one the best managers your club has ever had after he has re-establisged you as a major force just to dismiss him again as soon as soon as things don't go as planned.....and bear in mind the majority of us these days would consider 5th place a massive achievemennt, not a blip..

You seem to have ignored most of what I said because you've repeated some of it. You said he should never have been sacked, my point was - ok maybe not 'sacked' - he needed to be replaced at some point because of his age. I think it's a weak argument to say that what has happened since disproves the need to have brought in a replacement. All it showed was the timing was wrong and there was a lack of foresight. We're where we are now because of mismanagement, not because we should have held onto Robson indefinitely / until he was ready to leave. He clearly has lost the dressing room to a degree as well imo, no matter how you dress it up. Again, I've already said he shouldn't have been fired when he was and he shouldn't have been replaced by Souness. And yes, I know 5th would be a major achievement now but look at how the team actually played that year, it showed signs of a declining performance. With that in mind I'd say he either needed to be backed to re-invest heavily or replaced the previous summer. Failing that, we should have given him until the end of the season and looked at it again (barring a disastrous campaign which I think was highly unlikely anyway).

 

nah, i don't reckon he lost the dressing room. never bought that argument. the players that apparantly lost confidence in sbr finished 5th under him in his last full season in charge. that felt like a slight underachievement at the time but it still had to be put in context. i was enjoying our success with sbr as manager and although that season represented a blip compared to the previous two, we were still one of the top clubs in the country at the time. i could never understand why more fans didn't see that. and it's not just the case of me arguing now with the benefit of hindsight. i was saying the same thing at the time of his sacking. it never should have happened.

 

agree he would have needed to be replaced at some stage but there was no reason at all to sack him when we did - the whole decision was made even more ludicrous given shepherd wielded the axe days after the transfer window closed. robson could have gone on for another couple of years at least i reckon. he certainly wanted to. it was only in the last couple of years of his life that he became too sick to work.

Edited September 25, 2009 by Dr Gloom

[Guest alex]

Again you're being a bit selective. I said lost the dressing room to a degree and by that I meant there was an increasing lack of discipline especially amongst the younger players who seemed to think they could do what they wanted, e.g. the likes of Bellamy, Dyer, Jenas et al going out on the piss all the time. They showed a worrying lack of respect for the manager, I think that was obvious. I'm not saying that in itself should have lead to his being sacked but it was certainly something that needed to be addressed.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

Again you're being a bit selective. I said lost the dressing room to a degree and by that I meant there was an increasing lack of discipline especially amongst the younger players who seemed to think they could do what they wanted, e.g. the likes of Bellamy, Dyer, Jenas et al going out on the piss all the time. They showed a worrying lack of respect for the manager, I think that was obvious. I'm not saying that in itself should have lead to his being sacked but it was certainly something that needed to be addressed.

 

maybe. maybe if robson had been kept in his job, he would have addressed it. we'll never know now.

 

even if he hadn't addressed it and the likes of bellamy and dyer kept acting likes tits off the field, they were still doing the business on the field. that's why i never understood his sacking. you dismiss your manager, in my view, when you're in trouble. if we'd still been at the bottom of the table at xmas there might have been an argument for it but we were four games in to the new season.

 

i don't get how i'm being selective by the way. the main argument given by you as far as i can see (and by most others on here) for why robson had to go was the fact that he'd lsot the dressing room and we were on a downward curve under him. i never saw that tbh. we had a team that was peforming better than any other in my lifetime bar keegan. and shepherd sacked the man, a move largely backed by the support. goes back in my view to the point that success breeds impatience.

Edited September 25, 2009 by Dr Gloom

[Guest alex]

You're obviously being selective because a small part of my argument was he'd lost the dressing room to a degree. This has been done to death though and this probably isn't the time or place. Agree to differ mate? OK?

[Dr Gloom 21912]

You're obviously being selective because a small part of my argument was he'd lost the dressing room to a degree. This has been done to death though and this probably isn't the time or place. Agree to differ mate? OK?

 

 

yeah. fair enough.

[The Fish 10849]

Any idea if the commemorative scarves will still be on sale on the Matchday?

[Noelie 103]

............. small part of my argument was he'd lost the dressing room to a degree............

 

According to Shearer's dad that's probably true to degree.

In 2004 I was home for a couple of months and a mate of mine took me to a pub where he drank with Shearer's dad. Steve Watson's dad was also there and although I only stayed about an hour in their company the conversation naturally had some United threads.

Shearer's dad made a comment about Bobby's forgetfulness and how Alan and others in the dressing room were in the habit of calling Bobby nerdy names and laughing at him behind his back because of it. Shearer's dad had been told this by his son and he seemed to get a big kick out of telling us.

[Guest alex]

Fitting honour for Sir Bobby

 

After half-a-dozen years, let alone the half-a-dozen days that have passed, the warm emotional resonance of what happened in Durham Cathedral last Monday will still be with many of us who were there. The posthumous honouring of somebody as remarkable as Sir Bobby Robson, inset, could hardly fail to be affecting but there was something particularly moving about the total naturalness of finding a life devoted to a game celebrated so beautifully amid the ancient stones of one of the architectural glories of Europe. It said much about Robson and about his native North East, and it brought to mind the elegance and truth of the late Arthur Hopcraft’s assertions on behalf of football’s significance in British life, especially his declaration that it had never been only a game “since the working classes saw in it an escape route out of drudgery and claimed it as their own”.

 

Arthur was making points (in the 1960s) that the football of today would struggle to justify but few men ever incarnated his case more comprehensively than the son of the Durham coalfield who came up out of the pit to brighten the fields of this country and the Continent as a player and manager. His spirit spread a glow through that great Norman cathedral, too.

 

Hugh McIlvanney in the Sunday Times

[Craig 6682]

Someone pointed this out.....

 

http://www.royalmint.com/Annex/bobby.aspx

 

Nice touch from the Royal Mint

[Tom 14011]

I was going to say that's mint but I'll settle for class.