Channel Four Now

[Guest alex]

I remember when the first rumblings were being made about them invading Iraq and in my naivety I thought 'surely not' since it was obvious then there was no link with 9/11 (which I think if you remember back was the initial 'reason' before the WMD bollocks). Little did I know Blair would fall over himself to help them and get us into it too.

[NJS 4256]

I remember when the first rumblings were being made about them invading Iraq and in my naivety I thought 'surely not' since it was obvious then there was no link with 9/11 (which I think if you remember back was the initial 'reason' before the WMD bollocks). Little did I know Blair would fall over himself to help them and get us into it too.

 

 

I just couldn't see any british PM not backing them to the hilt - though Blair's zeal was especially distasteful.

 

I think calls for them to be charged with war crimes are probably over the top but then again when they both come out with the God told me to do it/I'll be judged by God bullshit I think they'd deserve it and more.

[Guest alex]

If you remember back to the invasion of Afghanistan it was all about getting Bin Laden at first. That went well.

[Happy Face 29]

I remember when the first rumblings were being made about them invading Iraq and in my naivety I thought 'surely not' since it was obvious then there was no link with 9/11 (which I think if you remember back was the initial 'reason' before the WMD bollocks). Little did I know Blair would fall over himself to help them and get us into it too.

 

The interesting thing in Bob Woodwards book about the 100 days after 9/11, is how immediate the drum started getting banged for going into Iraq. Within days of 9/11 with no links whatsoever provided, Cheyney and Rumsfeld were bringing it up as a strong recommendation in daily NSC meeting.

 

What's impressive is how Bush refused to take that advice...for a while...until the CIA told him it was a "slam dunk" that Iraq had WMD.

[Park Life 71]

If you remember back to the invasion of Afghanistan it was all about getting Bin Laden at first. That went well.

 

Living in Miami apparently.

[Fop 1]

150'000 Iraqi's died slightly nastier deaths.

 

Aye and Saddam killed even more than that.

[NJS 4256]

If you remember back to the invasion of Afghanistan it was all about getting Bin Laden at first. That went well.

 

There was a valid-ish argument about the training camps but the way they just thought change the regime and everything wil be okay was staggeringly stupid - I only have an 'O' level in history and knew that was bollocks so I find the level of imcomptence amazing.

[Happy Face 29]

I remember when the first rumblings were being made about them invading Iraq and in my naivety I thought 'surely not' since it was obvious then there was no link with 9/11 (which I think if you remember back was the initial 'reason' before the WMD bollocks). Little did I know Blair would fall over himself to help them and get us into it too.

 

 

I just couldn't see any british PM not backing them to the hilt - though Blair's zeal was especially distasteful.

 

I think calls for them to be charged with war crimes are probably over the top but then again when they both come out with the God told me to do it/I'll be judged by God bullshit I think they'd deserve it and more.

 

I don't know if they should be charged...there should definitley be an investigation to determine if they should though. Torture is a war crime after all.

[Guest alex]

If you remember back to the invasion of Afghanistan it was all about getting Bin Laden at first. That went well.

 

Living in Miami apparently.

Those Yemeni restaurants go down a storm with the snow birds apparently.

[Fop 1]

If you remember back to the invasion of Afghanistan it was all about getting Bin Laden at first. That went well.

 

Afghanistan is a nightmare, and one that will still last for maybe 20 or 30 years....... having said that even 8 years on almost every bit of Islamofacist violence occurring today still has many people trained in those Afghan camps at its core...... so letting them continue with it was no real choice either.

[Guest alex]

If you remember back to the invasion of Afghanistan it was all about getting Bin Laden at first. That went well.

 

Afghanistan is a nightmare, and one that will still last for maybe 20 or 30 years....... having said that even 8 years on almost every bit of Islamofacist violence occurring today still has many people trained in those Afghan camps at its core...... so letting them continue with it was no real choice either.

It was more a comment on the initial strategy tbh, i.e. paying off the wrong people while the people they were searching for were allowed to disappear into Pakistan.

[Guest Stevie]

Only about 10 people live in Sacandanavia so it don't matter. Didn't think I had to mention the Spanish as they are more or less cunts to a man, you only have to look at the motor racing fiasco and the racism at the football grounds. With Italy North and South are very different so I wouldn't take a broad stroke.

 

Proof if ever it were needed that the English are as non-racist as Ron Atkinson. We are so much better than everyone else aren't we?

He's right though. The only cunts I would trust in modern life are the krauts and the scandanavians. The dutch are so open about everything they haven't got it in them to conceal anything as well. I think in the far South of Spain the racism isn't as prevelant however.

There's a lot of tension caused by all the Moroccan illegal immigration, with southern Spain being their easiest route into Europe. Whereas somewhere like Barcelona, for example, is a lot more multi-cultural and relaxed about race.

What was that bloke called who played right back for Arsenal, played for Cameroon. I remember reading an article by him saying he never ever encountered racism in Seville, he largely grew up there, yet the problem across the rest of the nation is almost accepted.

[Guest Stevie]

Spain is an inherently racist country regardless what anyone says. Imagine Terry Venables or Glenn Hoddle saying to Paul Scholes, "you're better than that black monkey".

[Fop 1]

If you remember back to the invasion of Afghanistan it was all about getting Bin Laden at first. That went well.

 

Afghanistan is a nightmare, and one that will still last for maybe 20 or 30 years....... having said that even 8 years on almost every bit of Islamofacist violence occurring today still has many people trained in those Afghan camps at its core...... so letting them continue with it was no real choice either.

It was more a comment on the initial strategy tbh, i.e. paying off the wrong people while the people they were searching for were allowed to disappear into Pakistan.

 

They were probably doomed whatever they did, even now with Pakistan finally getting pissed off and retaking control of some of it's border area (which was only done after the massive Pakistani outrage after the Taliban in the area flogged that young girl on TV), there's still vast, vast areas where there is no real control.

 

Don't think it's something that can be "won", just something that would have to be endured until eventually it goes away (maybe).

[Guest alex]

Only about 10 people live in Sacandanavia so it don't matter. Didn't think I had to mention the Spanish as they are more or less cunts to a man, you only have to look at the motor racing fiasco and the racism at the football grounds. With Italy North and South are very different so I wouldn't take a broad stroke.

 

Proof if ever it were needed that the English are as non-racist as Ron Atkinson. We are so much better than everyone else aren't we?

He's right though. The only cunts I would trust in modern life are the krauts and the scandanavians. The dutch are so open about everything they haven't got it in them to conceal anything as well. I think in the far South of Spain the racism isn't as prevelant however.

There's a lot of tension caused by all the Moroccan illegal immigration, with southern Spain being their easiest route into Europe. Whereas somewhere like Barcelona, for example, is a lot more multi-cultural and relaxed about race.

What was that bloke called who played right back for Arsenal, played for Cameroon. I remember reading an article by him saying he never ever encountered racism in Seville, he largely grew up there, yet the problem across the rest of the nation is almost accepted.

You're on about the experience of one professional footballer whereas I'm talking about a broad social problem caused by north African illegal immigration and poverty. The former doesn't really have much to do with the latter imo.

[The Fish 10430]

They were probably doomed whatever they did, even now with Pakistan finally getting pissed off and retaking control of some of it's border area (which was only done after the massive Pakistani outrage after the Taliban in the area flogged that young girl on TV), there's still vast, vast areas where there is no real control.

 

Don't think it's something that can be "won", just something that would have to be endured until eventually it goes away (maybe).

 

Peace in our time?

[Guest Stevie]

Only about 10 people live in Sacandanavia so it don't matter. Didn't think I had to mention the Spanish as they are more or less cunts to a man, you only have to look at the motor racing fiasco and the racism at the football grounds. With Italy North and South are very different so I wouldn't take a broad stroke.

 

Proof if ever it were needed that the English are as non-racist as Ron Atkinson. We are so much better than everyone else aren't we?

He's right though. The only cunts I would trust in modern life are the krauts and the scandanavians. The dutch are so open about everything they haven't got it in them to conceal anything as well. I think in the far South of Spain the racism isn't as prevelant however.

There's a lot of tension caused by all the Moroccan illegal immigration, with southern Spain being their easiest route into Europe. Whereas somewhere like Barcelona, for example, is a lot more multi-cultural and relaxed about race.

What was that bloke called who played right back for Arsenal, played for Cameroon. I remember reading an article by him saying he never ever encountered racism in Seville, he largely grew up there, yet the problem across the rest of the nation is almost accepted.

You're on about the experience of one professional footballer whereas I'm talking about a broad social problem caused by north African illegal immigration and poverty. The former doesn't really have much to do with the latter imo.

You were talking about racism, which is a separate thing from economic migration causing resentment imo.

[Guest alex]

Only about 10 people live in Sacandanavia so it don't matter. Didn't think I had to mention the Spanish as they are more or less cunts to a man, you only have to look at the motor racing fiasco and the racism at the football grounds. With Italy North and South are very different so I wouldn't take a broad stroke.

 

Proof if ever it were needed that the English are as non-racist as Ron Atkinson. We are so much better than everyone else aren't we?

He's right though. The only cunts I would trust in modern life are the krauts and the scandanavians. The dutch are so open about everything they haven't got it in them to conceal anything as well. I think in the far South of Spain the racism isn't as prevelant however.

There's a lot of tension caused by all the Moroccan illegal immigration, with southern Spain being their easiest route into Europe. Whereas somewhere like Barcelona, for example, is a lot more multi-cultural and relaxed about race.

What was that bloke called who played right back for Arsenal, played for Cameroon. I remember reading an article by him saying he never ever encountered racism in Seville, he largely grew up there, yet the problem across the rest of the nation is almost accepted.

You're on about the experience of one professional footballer whereas I'm talking about a broad social problem caused by north African illegal immigration and poverty. The former doesn't really have much to do with the latter imo.

You were talking about racism, which is a separate thing from economic migration causing resentment imo.

Aye, there's zero link

[Fop 1]

They were probably doomed whatever they did, even now with Pakistan finally getting pissed off and retaking control of some of it's border area (which was only done after the massive Pakistani outrage after the Taliban in the area flogged that young girl on TV), there's still vast, vast areas where there is no real control.

 

Don't think it's something that can be "won", just something that would have to be endured until eventually it goes away (maybe).

 

Peace in our time?

 

The opposite really.

[Park Life 71]

If you remember back to the invasion of Afghanistan it was all about getting Bin Laden at first. That went well.

 

Living in Miami apparently.

Those Yemeni restaurants go down a storm with the snow birds apparently.

 

He's quite keen on the Art Deco.

[Guest alex]

If you remember back to the invasion of Afghanistan it was all about getting Bin Laden at first. That went well.

 

Living in Miami apparently.

Those Yemeni restaurants go down a storm with the snow birds apparently.

 

He's quite keen on the Art Deco.

Just bought Versace's place apparently. Would be mint if he turned up there like.

[Guest Stevie]

Only about 10 people live in Sacandanavia so it don't matter. Didn't think I had to mention the Spanish as they are more or less cunts to a man, you only have to look at the motor racing fiasco and the racism at the football grounds. With Italy North and South are very different so I wouldn't take a broad stroke.

 

Proof if ever it were needed that the English are as non-racist as Ron Atkinson. We are so much better than everyone else aren't we?

He's right though. The only cunts I would trust in modern life are the krauts and the scandanavians. The dutch are so open about everything they haven't got it in them to conceal anything as well. I think in the far South of Spain the racism isn't as prevelant however.

There's a lot of tension caused by all the Moroccan illegal immigration, with southern Spain being their easiest route into Europe. Whereas somewhere like Barcelona, for example, is a lot more multi-cultural and relaxed about race.

What was that bloke called who played right back for Arsenal, played for Cameroon. I remember reading an article by him saying he never ever encountered racism in Seville, he largely grew up there, yet the problem across the rest of the nation is almost accepted.

You're on about the experience of one professional footballer whereas I'm talking about a broad social problem caused by north African illegal immigration and poverty. The former doesn't really have much to do with the latter imo.

You were talking about racism, which is a separate thing from economic migration causing resentment imo.

Aye, there's zero link

There's a link but it's still largely separate " "

 

People in this country, many of them are fucked off with the immigration policy of unskilled people coming here, or just coming here because they get greater benefits. It doesn't mean that resentment is bourne out of racism, it's not even difficult for someone like you to understand that.

 

Unless you're just in put random pathetic " " 's mode.

Edited September 8, 2009 by Stevie

[Park Life 71]

If you remember back to the invasion of Afghanistan it was all about getting Bin Laden at first. That went well.

 

Living in Miami apparently.

Those Yemeni restaurants go down a storm with the snow birds apparently.

 

He's quite keen on the Art Deco.

Just bought Versace's place apparently. Would be mint if he turned up there like.

 

Perhaps garbed out in the full winter collection.

[Guest alex]

Here's an example of what I was talking about Stevie:

http://www.newstatesman.com/200003200017

Racism is just as prevalent there, if not more so, than in the rest of Spain.

[Happy Face 29]

People in this country, many of them are fucked off with the immigration policy of unskilled people coming here, or just coming here because they get greater benefits. It doesn't mean that resentment is bourne out of racism, it's not even difficult for someone like you to understand that.

 

Immigration numbers are lowering these days...because there are less job opportunities.

 

Doesn't really tally with your theory of unskilled benefit seekers being invited into the country as a matter of policy.

 

In times of boom when demand for workers exceeds supply, immigration (and resentment among the benefit class) will grow, during a slump such as we have now, they'll drop.