Channel Four Now

[Guest Stevie]

and not many countries condemned the recent Israeli assault on Palestine more vehemently than Britain.

Or have sold them more weapons to facillitate the attack.

 

Mike Ashley says one thing and does another too. He's a cunt for it.

So you want people at Vickers in Scotswood on the dole?

[Renton 20421]

Stevie's posts in this thread could be taken straight from the Football factory and related books.

 

Anyway, I watched this last night, out of morbid fascination I guess. Parts of it was like watching Cloverfield, particularly the bit where the second plane hit as those girls watched in the flat. You can see where Reeves got his inspiration from.

 

One other observation, someone said earlier it was a cowardly attack. I couldn't think of a less apt adjective. They may be murdering subhuman scum, but to deliberately fly a plane into a tower knowing it means certain death is not cowardly. Fighting the taliban on foot is also not cowardly. But to fire missiles 5 mile from your target while you're safely tucked up in the cockpit of a stealth bomber, arguably that's cowardly.

Cowardly post, but nothing less than I would expect from a patronising wank like you.

 

Well that's what it reminded me of when reading them, wasn't meant to be patronising or an insult either, merely an observation (relating more to style than content I might add). But whatever, you've reminded me why you're not worth talking to, with your incessant need for petty insults at every perceived slight.

It would incredibly difficult for anyone to read your post without drawing the conclusion that it was a patronising all out attack on my views, and an attack which challenged none of them.

 

I wasn't attacking your views though, some of which I agree with. The style just reminded a bit of John King that's all. I personally wouldn't take that as an insult, he's sold millions of books, and in turn is really just trying to emulate Irvine Welsh, who is my favourite author.

 

Anyway Stevie, another observation if I may, sometimes you should really just chill out a bit more imo. You've come across as more than a bit paranoid of late.

[Guest Stevie]

Stevie's posts in this thread could be taken straight from the Football factory and related books.

 

Anyway, I watched this last night, out of morbid fascination I guess. Parts of it was like watching Cloverfield, particularly the bit where the second plane hit as those girls watched in the flat. You can see where Reeves got his inspiration from.

 

One other observation, someone said earlier it was a cowardly attack. I couldn't think of a less apt adjective. They may be murdering subhuman scum, but to deliberately fly a plane into a tower knowing it means certain death is not cowardly. Fighting the taliban on foot is also not cowardly. But to fire missiles 5 mile from your target while you're safely tucked up in the cockpit of a stealth bomber, arguably that's cowardly.

Cowardly post, but nothing less than I would expect from a patronising wank like you.

 

Well that's what it reminded me of when reading them, wasn't meant to be patronising or an insult either, merely an observation (relating more to style than content I might add). But whatever, you've reminded me why you're not worth talking to, with your incessant need for petty insults at every perceived slight.

It would incredibly difficult for anyone to read your post without drawing the conclusion that it was a patronising all out attack on my views, and an attack which challenged none of them.

 

I wasn't attacking your views though, some of which I agree with. The style just reminded a bit of John King that's all. I personally wouldn't take that as an insult, he's sold millions of books, and in turn is really just trying to emulate Irvine Welsh, who is my favourite author.

 

Anyway Stevie, another observation if I may, sometimes you should really just chill out a bit more imo. You've come across as more than a bit paranoid of late.

Paranoid? I've not been paranoid, I have been under a lot of pressure in my personal and working life but that's nothing to do with anyone on here, however I apologise for being snappy there with you.

 

So just to summarise this thread:

• Britain is a racist country
  
• We should forget about the British dead on 11/9
  
• Whenever 11/9 comes around we should apologise to the muslim world for our barbaric attrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan as our only intention was to garner oil
  
• We didn't really that much for mankind in World War II
  
• Most of Europe is less racist than us, their racism ONLY occurs in football stadiums where there authorities are more relaxed
  

If this is the post you read in this read, you don't need to scroll back. Just read the above.

[Renton 20421]

Stevie's posts in this thread could be taken straight from the Football factory and related books.

 

Anyway, I watched this last night, out of morbid fascination I guess. Parts of it was like watching Cloverfield, particularly the bit where the second plane hit as those girls watched in the flat. You can see where Reeves got his inspiration from.

 

One other observation, someone said earlier it was a cowardly attack. I couldn't think of a less apt adjective. They may be murdering subhuman scum, but to deliberately fly a plane into a tower knowing it means certain death is not cowardly. Fighting the taliban on foot is also not cowardly. But to fire missiles 5 mile from your target while you're safely tucked up in the cockpit of a stealth bomber, arguably that's cowardly.

Cowardly post, but nothing less than I would expect from a patronising wank like you.

 

Well that's what it reminded me of when reading them, wasn't meant to be patronising or an insult either, merely an observation (relating more to style than content I might add). But whatever, you've reminded me why you're not worth talking to, with your incessant need for petty insults at every perceived slight.

It would incredibly difficult for anyone to read your post without drawing the conclusion that it was a patronising all out attack on my views, and an attack which challenged none of them.

 

I wasn't attacking your views though, some of which I agree with. The style just reminded a bit of John King that's all. I personally wouldn't take that as an insult, he's sold millions of books, and in turn is really just trying to emulate Irvine Welsh, who is my favourite author.

 

Anyway Stevie, another observation if I may, sometimes you should really just chill out a bit more imo. You've come across as more than a bit paranoid of late.

Paranoid? I've not been paranoid, I have been under a lot of pressure in my personal and working life but that's nothing to do with anyone on here, however I apologise for being snappy there with you.

 

So just to summarise this thread:

• Britain is a racist country
  
• We should forget about the British dead on 11/9
  
• Whenever 11/9 comes around we should apologise to the muslim world for our barbaric attrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan as our only intention was to garner oil
  
• We didn't really that much for mankind in World War II
  
• Most of Europe is less racist than us, their racism ONLY occurs in football stadiums where there authorities are more relaxed
  

If this is the post you read in this read, you don't need to scroll back. Just read the above.

 

Thanks for the summary. Just for the record, like you I disagree 100% with those statements.

[Guest alex]

Not another fucking repeat.

[Billy Whitehurst 860]

I lived in Manhattan at the time. I was sat on the 20th floor of a building in Times Sq (which is miles away from the Twin Towers) watching it all happen.

 

After the second tower fell our boss came round and told us to shut the blinds, not sure they would have stopped a jumbo jet like.

 

We all went home and I remember being delighted that I would get to watch Roma v Real Madrid (I think it was that game) in the Champions League as kick offs were at 2.45pm NYC time so I'd usually be at work when they were on. All channels, including ESPN, were showing footage of what was happening though so I couldn't watch it and was furious. I don't think I was being cold, it was just a bizarre day and didn't seem real.

 

It was only until I saw people at work who had lost people that it really sunk in what happened, it was extremely sad and totally senseless. It was a very strange place to be in for the next few months.

 

After that the majority of the world showered the US with sympathy and goodwill but in the end, I felt that, the US threw it back in everyone's face, they turned nationalism into xenophobia and that was a large part of the reason why I moved back to the UK a year later. It was the perfect opportunity for the US to patch a lot of things up with the rest of the world but they properly fucked it up, and the UK stupidly joined them for the ride.

Edited September 8, 2009 by Billy Whitehurst

[Guest Stevie]

I lived in Manhattan at the time. I was sat on the 20th floor of a building in Times Sq (which is miles away from the Twin Towers) watching it all happen.

 

After the second tower fell our boss came round and told us to shut the blinds, not sure they would have stopped a jumbo jet like.

 

We all went home and I remember being delighted that I would get to watch Roma v Real Madrid (I think it was that game) in the Champions League as kick offs were at 2.45pm NYC time so I'd usually be at work when they were on. All channels, including ESPN, were showing footage of what was happening though so I couldn't watch it and was furious. I don't think I was being cold, it was just a bizarre day and didn't seem real.

 

It was only until I saw people at work who had lost people that it really sunk in what happened, it was extremely sad and totally senseless. It was a very strange place to be in for the next few months.

 

After that the majority of the world showered the US with sympathy and goodwill but in the end, I felt that, the US through it back in everyone's face, they turned nationalism into xenophobia and that was a large part of the reason why I moved back to the UK a year later. It was the perfect opportunity for the US to patch a lot of things up with the rest of the world but they properly fucked it up, and the UK stupidly joined them for the ride.

I think 99% of that lays squarely at the feet on that evil bastard Bush and his advisors. I hate him as much as I hate Hitler, and I have no doubt if he had been in power longer the potential for WWiii was very real.

 

By the way there was a lot to take in, don't beat yourself up about wanting to watch some football but a fuckin shitey defensive Italian side??!?!? I was the same when Princess Di died, I was more upset about the toon game at Anfield being called off.

Edited September 8, 2009 by Stevie

[Guest alex]

Agree with Billy like, it was an opportunity missed. Largely down to the bloke the US elected and his cronies. They then re-elected him so they don't really have any excuses.

[sammynb 3161]

I had just walked home from the pub when it happened and a mate phoned to tell me to switch the telly on, it was about 11pm here. As the news reader was explaining that "things were unclear as to what had happened but an accident involving a passenger jet crashing into one of the World Trade Centre towers" the network had a live feed of the tower playing over her shoulder and there plain as day they were showing live as the second aircraft went into the other tower!

I've since worked a lot with one of the presenters who was working that evening, sports guy waiting to present his segment and he said it was crazy. The networks were receiving the feeds but no one knew what it was because there was no "commentary." Hence why two of major networks here coverage didn't start until an hour after everything happened.

 

Like many others I have a friend who was lucky, her apartment was so close that dust from the collapse covered everything and as others have said all senseless loss of life should be mourned.

But without going all Parky there are to many questions about the truth of what happened and of the US's actual involvement. From their initial arming & training of those accused of the terrorist attacks and of Saddam; to the truth behind the Afghanistan and Iraq "actions!"

More than anything that sticks in my mind is the television images of Dub Ya when he was told of the attacks - that blank look, no reaction. There is no way in the world I wouldn't react if someone had just told me about what had happened.

 

For a long time a close friend who works for "an agency" use to argue that the Afgan & Iraq "actions" weren't about oil or gas but the Us's want for democracy - then one day he changed his tune.

[Billy Whitehurst 860]

I lived in Manhattan at the time. I was sat on the 20th floor of a building in Times Sq (which is miles away from the Twin Towers) watching it all happen.

 

After the second tower fell our boss came round and told us to shut the blinds, not sure they would have stopped a jumbo jet like.

 

We all went home and I remember being delighted that I would get to watch Roma v Real Madrid (I think it was that game) in the Champions League as kick offs were at 2.45pm NYC time so I'd usually be at work when they were on. All channels, including ESPN, were showing footage of what was happening though so I couldn't watch it and was furious. I don't think I was being cold, it was just a bizarre day and didn't seem real.

 

It was only until I saw people at work who had lost people that it really sunk in what happened, it was extremely sad and totally senseless. It was a very strange place to be in for the next few months.

 

After that the majority of the world showered the US with sympathy and goodwill but in the end, I felt that, the US through it back in everyone's face, they turned nationalism into xenophobia and that was a large part of the reason why I moved back to the UK a year later. It was the perfect opportunity for the US to patch a lot of things up with the rest of the world but they properly fucked it up, and the UK stupidly joined them for the ride.

I think 99% of that lays squarely at the feet on that evil bastard Bush and his advisors. I hate him as much as I hate Hitler, and I have no doubt if he had been in power longer the potential for WWiii was very real.

 

By the way there was a lot to take in, don't beat yourself up about wanting to watch some football but a fuckin shitey defensive Italian side??!?!? I was the same when Princess Di died, I was more upset about the toon game at Anfield being called off.

 

You're right there, instead of trying to at least make something positive out of a tragic situation and pull together with the rest of the world, Bush and his daddie's cronies used it to pursue their own agenda and we all saw how well that worked out.

 

As for Roma, I didn't have HBO so the TV was so unbelievably shite that I would watch anything.

[Toonraider 0]

I will watch this program later as I recorded it. I've watched the other two aswell from previous nights, dont know why as I end up so upset. The one about the telephone calls people made trapped in the towers was heart wrenching.

[Guest Stevie]

I will watch this program later as I recorded it. I've watched the other two aswell from previous nights, dont know why as I end up so upset. The one about the telephone calls people made trapped in the towers was heart wrenching.

The people jumping got me like, burn to death or create a 3 foot crater, what a fucking dilemma.

 

I'm still disgusted we ended up talking about hard done to muslims on this particular thread to be honest.

[Guest alex]

Aye, I bet you didn't want to discuss Islam at all. right?

[Happy Face 29]

So just to summarise this thread:

• Britain is not the least racist racist country in Europe
  
• The way to remember the British dead on 11/9 is not to lament "these evil bastards, the scurge of the world"
  
• Whenever 11/9 comes around we should chastise our political leaders for our barbaric attrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan as of the many intentions behind invasions, the last thing they will do, is make our shores safer.
  
• We did much for mankind in World War II
  
• Most of Europe elect less racist representatives than we have recently. This has nothing to do with national football associations or narrow sub-categories of the populace like football fans.
  

If this is the post you read in this read, you don't need to scroll back. Just read the above.

 

FYP

[Happy Face 29]

I will watch this program later as I recorded it. I've watched the other two aswell from previous nights, dont know why as I end up so upset. The one about the telephone calls people made trapped in the towers was heart wrenching.

The people jumping got me like, burn to death or create a 3 foot crater, what a fucking dilemma.

 

I'm still disgusted we ended up talking about hard done to muslims on this particular thread to be honest.

 

Your opening post refers to "these evil bastards, the scurge of the world" man.

 

[Toonraider 0]

I will watch this program later as I recorded it. I've watched the other two aswell from previous nights, dont know why as I end up so upset. The one about the telephone calls people made trapped in the towers was heart wrenching.

The people jumping got me like, burn to death or create a 3 foot crater, what a fucking dilemma.

 

I'm still disgusted we ended up talking about hard done to muslims on this particular thread to be honest.

 

Imagine that? But no, we couldnt possibly know how they felt. What got to me were the families desperate for any news of their loved ones and how/where they actually died...some waited months and were overjoyed to recieve just some bone fragments so they could bury them and have a proper funeral to say goodbye.

[Park Life 71]

We've always been a racist country.

 

Even just before the war there was a lot of anti-Semitic feeling in Britain and even groups of people who strongly supported fascism. Though it was wiped out in the form of German, Italian and Spanish fascism It would be a fair argument to say there's still existing fascism in the UK - albeit under a different guise, some hiding behind Nationalism others not so subtle.

Parky said something a few weeks ago, something along the lines of we're the least racist country in Europe, he's well placed to make such a remark too and I agree with him 100%. Racism against blacks exists here and there, but largely it's cool and people who are outright racist against blacks are now more or less laughed as being total wanks by almost everybody. In the 70s and 80s and some of the 90s the far rights anger was directed at blacks and jews, then it was just jews and it's now muslims, where laughably jews are made to feel welcome within the far right. Overall though this country was racist, it's comfortably the least racist in Europe. Imagine the Danish thing happening here.

 

I've lived in France and Germany and England is by a country mile the least racist and the most assimilated country in Europe. Something that will always make me proud.

[Park Life 71]

It's nice that we have a view of ourselves as a more enlightened, less racist society than any other European countries (maybe a little ethnocentric in itself) when the facts say something different.

 

Of 50 countries in Europe, the UK is one of only 9 to have seen a rise in the vote for openly far right MEPs in the European parliament.

 

With 2 far right MEPs elected we give racists more representation than the majority of member countries.

 

Le Pen and the far right were close to taking over France only a few years ago. It would be the equivalent of the BNP running England.

[Park Life 71]

I've got nothing against you Bawan I think you come across as a canny lad, but you've lived here the majority of your life and you still don't feel affiliated to this country which welcomed you with open arms when you needed it. It's not a dig at you but that sums some of the problems in this country up to be honest, and I don't think it's necessarily your fault.

 

As for the war on terror, read up for my take on the UK's involvement, I think we went to Iraq with the best of intentions, but to let that totally over shadow the good we've done in the world is completely wrong.

 

We stood up to Hitler on our own, fought him broadly speaking alone for 2 years, when we knew for a fact we'd get battered eventually if some cunt else didn't join in. I was reading some trashy paper the other day, someone else bought it not me and it had extracts from Winston Churchill in June, July and August of 1939 saying basically, Hitler was a racist kraut cunt who could and would bring mankind to its' knees if he started his war push. In his speeches he mentions colour and creed with a strong hint of the battle being of one to do something that is right against something that is wrong, and Hitler's was to dominate the world, and ethnically cleanse mankind. You could argue that didn't become apparent till later but I don't think so. The beauty about this country is the krauts in the years leading up to the war were completely and utterly obsessed with the idea of having Britain as a firm ally. The nazi's completely and utterly respected Britain, Hitler was even fuckin shaggin some bint from Croydon believe it or not pre-war, but we said do one you total kraut cunts. Now you imagine if we'd have said yes, we'll join your force to rule the world. Russia, America, China, none of them could've stopped Britain and Germany from completely taking over the world. We had the greatest empire, they had the greatest most frenzied will and equipped force, it would've been a doddle, but we said fuck off you nobheads, start on any cunt and you'll have to have a row with us pick on some cunt your own size. No one else wanted a row they were all to scared but we stood up to them for our own interests, our own beliefs and for the good of human race.

 

So don't sit there and say this country hasn't done more than most for the good of mankind. We had a lot to lose and we were 6/1 outsiders at the time, we fought bravely with our eyes open at the size of the task on our own doing what we could, and as much as they're cunts we owe a lot to Russia, it's a shame relations are so frosty. The French declared war on them too, but the French declaring war on Germany is like Peter Crouch asking Mohammed Ali on.

 

That to me is the greatest act of war, any country has been involved with in the history of mankind. I can remember what an openly racist country this was in the 1980's when I was a little lad, so god knows how bad it was in the 30's and 40's, yet despite that we stood a lone figure against (at the time) the most dangerous fighting force mankind has ever known for the good of cultures who could've been eradicated around the world, and some almost were, I'm sure some total cunts wished they were and we both know what sort of people I'm talking about. It was like Rocky v Ivan Drago, eventually we had Pauli (the yanks) and Micky (the Russians) jumping in to the ring too and when we sorted it out, but we stood largely alone fighting them in the air and winning the Battle of Britain with fewer men and inferior planes for a long time. The yanks sat at home making the gloves for us, and charging us through the nose the total cunts (a debt that took us decades to pay off), till it suited their interests, and it wasn't for the good of mankind, but their own "retribution" and fears.

 

I'm every bit as proud of our forefathers defending the sovereignty of other nations, and our own, as you are. Our finest hour. Germany, an occupying force, and their allies having invaded Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Poland, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Romania needed someone to step up and we (amongst others) did so heroically.

 

Don't you think it tarnishes the memory of those who died for freedom and democracy to be an ally to the US now. Themselves an occupying force in Iraq and Afghanistan and primary support for Israel's occupation of Palestine.

 

We would do well to de-link from all this madcap U.S. foreign policy. There was 0 need to invade Iraq apart from U.S. empire building and they stated at the time they would go in without EU or U.K. support. To our credit 3 million or so marched in London against it. There is more reason to invade Pakistan/Afghan border areas than Iraq.

[Happy Face 29]

It's nice that we have a view of ourselves as a more enlightened, less racist society than any other European countries (maybe a little ethnocentric in itself) when the facts say something different.

 

Of 50 countries in Europe, the UK is one of only 9 to have seen a rise in the vote for openly far right MEPs in the European parliament.

 

With 2 far right MEPs elected we give racists more representation than the majority of member countries.

 

Le Pen and the far right were close to taking over France only a few years ago. It would be the equivalent of the BNP running England.

 

France and Germany are 2 of the more racist countries...but support is waning there...as your post suggests.

 

It's on the rise here.

[Renton 20421]

We've always been a racist country.

 

Even just before the war there was a lot of anti-Semitic feeling in Britain and even groups of people who strongly supported fascism. Though it was wiped out in the form of German, Italian and Spanish fascism It would be a fair argument to say there's still existing fascism in the UK - albeit under a different guise, some hiding behind Nationalism others not so subtle.

Parky said something a few weeks ago, something along the lines of we're the least racist country in Europe, he's well placed to make such a remark too and I agree with him 100%. Racism against blacks exists here and there, but largely it's cool and people who are outright racist against blacks are now more or less laughed as being total wanks by almost everybody. In the 70s and 80s and some of the 90s the far rights anger was directed at blacks and jews, then it was just jews and it's now muslims, where laughably jews are made to feel welcome within the far right. Overall though this country was racist, it's comfortably the least racist in Europe. Imagine the Danish thing happening here.

 

I've lived in France and Germany and England is by a country mile the least racist and the most assimilated country in Europe. Something that will always make me proud.

 

That's two countries like so you can hardly make the sweeping claim we're the least racist country in Europe. What about the Scandinavian countries for instance? Also, when was the last time you actually lived here to make a judgement?

[Park Life 71]

Agree with Billy like, it was an opportunity missed. Largely down to the bloke the US elected and his cronies. They then re-elected him so they don't really have any excuses.

 

The Govt in the U.S. hasn't changed since Kennedy died. More or less the same people and interest groups get in every time, Obama included.

[NJS 4256]

France and Germany are 2 of the more racist countries...but support is waning there...as your post suggests.

 

It's on the rise here.

 

 

Didn't the number of BNP votes at the Euro elections actually go down compared with the previous one?

 

 

I think they won seats because the Labour vote collapsed.

[Guest alex]

Agree with Billy like, it was an opportunity missed. Largely down to the bloke the US elected and his cronies. They then re-elected him so they don't really have any excuses.

 

The Govt in the U.S. hasn't changed since Kennedy died. More or less the same people and interest groups get in every time, Obama included.

I don't really think that's true in foreign policy / international diplomacy terms. I don't think you'd have had someone like Clinton (who I'm not saying is a saint by any means) would have launched into rhetoric like 'you're either with us or you're against us' or indeed would have invaded Iraq on such a dodgy premise.

[Park Life 71]

We've always been a racist country.

 

Even just before the war there was a lot of anti-Semitic feeling in Britain and even groups of people who strongly supported fascism. Though it was wiped out in the form of German, Italian and Spanish fascism It would be a fair argument to say there's still existing fascism in the UK - albeit under a different guise, some hiding behind Nationalism others not so subtle.

Parky said something a few weeks ago, something along the lines of we're the least racist country in Europe, he's well placed to make such a remark too and I agree with him 100%. Racism against blacks exists here and there, but largely it's cool and people who are outright racist against blacks are now more or less laughed as being total wanks by almost everybody. In the 70s and 80s and some of the 90s the far rights anger was directed at blacks and jews, then it was just jews and it's now muslims, where laughably jews are made to feel welcome within the far right. Overall though this country was racist, it's comfortably the least racist in Europe. Imagine the Danish thing happening here.

 

I've lived in France and Germany and England is by a country mile the least racist and the most assimilated country in Europe. Something that will always make me proud.

 

That's two countries like so you can hardly make the sweeping claim we're the least racist country in Europe. What about the Scandinavian countries for instance? Also, when was the last time you actually lived here to make a judgement?

 

Only about 10 people live in Sacandanavia so it don't matter. Didn't think I had to mention the Spanish as they are more or less cunts to a man, you only have to look at the motor racing fiasco and the racism at the football grounds. With Italy North and South are very different so I wouldn't take a broad stroke.