Guest alex Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 It was a straightforward enough question. Btw, But there is a theme running amongst some on here that promotion will lead to us challenging for europe and re-building under ashley. Is there? I think you just made that up tbh. The odd moron might argue that (I must have missed it), but you're suggesting that's a theme running on here? Bollocks. It was a straightforward engineered question It got to the crux of the argument, don't you think? You didn't answer it of course. Did this not answer the question? The league is and always will be the bread and butter You seemed to be saying the league is the bread and butter but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2207 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Keeping your best players fit for the league is a no-brainer, isn't it? Only the teams that think they might win the cup don't do that. It's not as if we've challenged for the league cup in living memory, even when we had a decent team...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 And who's saying we'll get back into Europe if we go up btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10978 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I'm Fucking baffled. CT, nobody is saying we don't want a cup. Everyone is saying we're not going to win one this year and by putting 1st teamers in the competition you risk the attainable goal of promotion. You're digging your heels in be ause you've been embarrassed and that's fine. But to make it out like the fans who reasonably doubt our chance of success in the cups are less supportive, is as ignorant as it is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Fortunately Hughton seems to have his priorities right anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10978 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Fortunately Hughton seems to have his priorities right anyway It's almost like he knows what he's talking about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummiemag1 0 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 The point I was trying to make earlier Craig is that we should be going for promotion and the cups this season and both should be given equal priority. I know most people will be saying bollocks and promotion is the priority and I can understand that, but I guarantee that next season if we get promoted people will be saying survival is the priority. We will never be in a position where the argument is to give priority to a cup competitions. Whatever division we are in and whatever position we are in people will be saying the cups are not a priority. 15 or 20 years ago clubs were not playing weakened teams in the cups because they still meant something. People have been brainwashed by the sky tv bullshit - like for example when they say Burnley have never played in the Premier League, completely ignoring the fact they have a glorious history of playing in the top division. Its like football at the top level didnt exist till 1992 according to Sky tv - absolute bollocks Look at Villa, they went out of the Europa League on Thursday and unbelievably some fans were saying well at least now they can concentrate on the league. Its laughable, they can now concentrate on trying to qualify for a competition they have just been knocked out of and dont take seriously. Newcastle have a great tradition in cup competitions, lets keep it going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bob Almighty! 0 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 The point I was trying to make earlier Craig is that we should be going for promotion and the cups this season and both should be given equal priority. I know most people will be saying bollocks and promotion is the priority and I can understand that, but I guarantee that next season if we get promoted people will be saying survival is the priority. We will never be in a position where the argument is to give priority to a cup competitions. Whatever division we are in and whatever position we are in people will be saying the cups are not a priority. 15 or 20 years ago clubs were not playing weakened teams in the cups because they still meant something. People have been brainwashed by the sky tv bullshit - like for example when they say Burnley have never played in the Premier League, completely ignoring the fact they have a glorious history of playing in the top division. Its like football at the top level didnt exist till 1992 according to Sky tv - absolute bollocks Look at Villa, they went out of the Europa League on Thursday and unbelievably some fans were saying well at least now they can concentrate on the league. Its laughable, they can now concentrate on trying to qualify for a competition they have just been knocked out of and dont take seriously. Newcastle have a great tradition in cup competitions, lets keep it going Good post, I agree with it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 7583 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 The thing is, you list teams that "we can compete with" forgetting that we couldnt compete with them last year with a far superior squad. I just understand where anyone has any optimism (and im fucking optimistic) that we could survive in the prem under ashley. If someone can explain..... I think you'll agree that last season was out of the usual in terms of the happenings at the club. That was a major influencing factor in our relegation. I think if you take away the off field baloney and played the squad we had last season again against the exact same opponents we would not be relegated. I'd say you could do the same thing 100 times over and 99 times we'd make it through. Seriously, do you think otherwise? I'm comparing the squad we have now with those of the teams I listed. We definitely are short on depth and are desperately short in a few positions (defense and forwards) but injury free we have a squad that I think could realistically be aiming for a mid-to-lower table position (9-15). Competing with is not to say that we'd beat, just that we'd have a decent chance of victory (as would they). Add a few injuries and some bad morale and things could go downhill very quickly of course (as we've seen). GK: Harper RB: Simpson CB: Coloccini CB: S. Taylor LB: Enrique RM: Guthrie CM: Smith CM: Barton LM: Jonas CF: Ameobi CF: Carroll Subs (from): Krul, Butt, R. Taylor, Nolan, Ranger, Xisco, Kadar, LuaLua, Donaldson, Geremi, Tozer Mid-lower table side IMO. There's still a lot of Premier league experience amongst that lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 7583 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Look at Villa, they went out of the Europa League on Thursday and unbelievably some fans were saying well at least now they can concentrate on the league. Its laughable, they can now concentrate on trying to qualify for a competition they have just been knocked out of and dont take seriously. Accurate and funny, but ultimately a sad indictment on the current state of the premier league (and other top leagues). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2207 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 The point I was trying to make earlier Craig is that we should be going for promotion and the cups this season and both should be given equal priority. I know most people will be saying bollocks and promotion is the priority and I can understand that, but I guarantee that next season if we get promoted people will be saying survival is the priority. We will never be in a position where the argument is to give priority to a cup competitions. Whatever division we are in and whatever position we are in people will be saying the cups are not a priority. 15 or 20 years ago clubs were not playing weakened teams in the cups because they still meant something. People have been brainwashed by the sky tv bullshit - like for example when they say Burnley have never played in the Premier League, completely ignoring the fact they have a glorious history of playing in the top division. Its like football at the top level didnt exist till 1992 according to Sky tv - absolute bollocks Look at Villa, they went out of the Europa League on Thursday and unbelievably some fans were saying well at least now they can concentrate on the league. Its laughable, they can now concentrate on trying to qualify for a competition they have just been knocked out of and dont take seriously. Newcastle have a great tradition in cup competitions, lets keep it going You've stated your case well but personally I disagree. I think this season our squad is exceptionally thin and we need to react accordingly. Anything else is romantic folly imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4858 Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 Absolutely excellent post brummiemag, sums up exactly how I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 99 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 In fairness, I dont think its as easy as saying promotion is a no brainer. Lets say we got promoted, and Ashleys was at the helm still, I see no reason we could not just drop rigth back down after he lined his pockets and sold the decent players that got us there and started over. We would look back through history and see this moment in time as when we struggled as a selling club. If we won thge cup and didnt get promoted this season, we would look back and see it as a highlight in a dour period. A cup, something we have no won in too long a time. I dont see how anyone can scourn the league cup, as if we have bigger fish to fry. Fair enough for the Liveprool's and Man Utd of the world, but us? I think it remains our only shot at silverwear for a long time. The question is not that clear though, there is a different answer whether ashley is in charge or not. Promotion is a must for the life of the club, the longer it takes to get out of this division the more we can be cemented in it. With a new owner who has half a clue, we can get back up to the premiership and start to rebuild, that should be our priority. However, if Ashley stayed, Id take the cup knowing that should we get promoted, he'd strip us bare again as we dropped again and the cycle repeated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 We're about 6 or 7 players short of a side that had no chance of winning anything last year and some people think the cups should be given equal priority to the league this season. No wonder we get accused of being deluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 99 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I dont think its what should be given a priority, no chance, but relating to the other thread of what you would prefer a cup win or promotion. Also, do you not think with stability last years side could have stayed up? I know I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) I dont think its what should be given a priority, no chance, but relating to the other thread of what you would prefer a cup win or promotion. Also, do you not think with stability last years side could have stayed up? I know I do. I never said you did but other people have said the cups should get equal priority this year. I've also already said I'd rather win the FA Cup than go up. It's a bit like saying I'd rather shag Monica Belluci tonight for a change though as that's not going to happen either. And aye, last year's side was good enough to stay up although I don't see how that makes much difference, it still wasn't remotely good enough to win a cup if you're being realistic. Edited August 31, 2009 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 99 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I dont think its what should be given a priority, no chance, but relating to the other thread of what you would prefer a cup win or promotion. Also, do you not think with stability last years side could have stayed up? I know I do. I never said you did but other people have said the cups should get equal priority this year. I've also already said I'd rather win the FA Cup than go up. It's a bit like saying I'd rather shag Monica Belluci tonight for a change though as that's not going to happen either. And aye, last year's side was good enough to stay up although I don't see how that makes much difference, it still wasn't remotely good enough to win a cup if you're being realistic. I think winning the LC depends on whether any of Arsenal, Man Utd or Liverpool can be arsed with it. After that, you maybe have a fighting chance (on the assumption that other half decent sides have fell along the way as well by facing each other). I know, we're never going to win it, Im just saying like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I dont think its what should be given a priority, no chance, but relating to the other thread of what you would prefer a cup win or promotion. Also, do you not think with stability last years side could have stayed up? I know I do. I never said you did but other people have said the cups should get equal priority this year. I've also already said I'd rather win the FA Cup than go up. It's a bit like saying I'd rather shag Monica Belluci tonight for a change though as that's not going to happen either. And aye, last year's side was good enough to stay up although I don't see how that makes much difference, it still wasn't remotely good enough to win a cup if you're being realistic. I think winning the LC depends on whether any of Arsenal, Man Utd or Liverpool can be arsed with it. After that, you maybe have a fighting chance (on the assumption that other half decent sides have fell along the way as well by facing each other). I know, we're never going to win it, Im just saying like. The League Cup's been dominatd by big four in recent years though. Going the same way as the FA Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2207 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 It's not as if there's a choice on offer between winning a cup and getting promoted. You'd have to describe winning a cup as an extremely long shot, we've not managed a domestic trophy in 54 years or so with much better squads and managers than at present Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 99 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 It's not as if there's a choice on offer between winning a cup and getting promoted. You'd have to describe winning a cup as an extremely long shot, we've not managed a domestic trophy in 54 years or so with much better squads and managers than at present I dont think anyone has been on about us realistically winning the cup in place of a nail on shot at getting promoted. Have they? I think getting promoted is going to be tough and a hard slog. Winning a cup at the moment has never been further from being possible. I assumed this had just been a discussion point. In real terms, I think a cup run is the last thing we need. Ok so it beings Ashley a few extra pennies, but for what? All I see is the increased chance at injuries for what is really nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2207 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 It's not as if there's a choice on offer between winning a cup and getting promoted. You'd have to describe winning a cup as an extremely long shot, we've not managed a domestic trophy in 54 years or so with much better squads and managers than at present I dont think anyone has been on about us realistically winning the cup in place of a nail on shot at getting promoted. Have they? Well I thought that was the point of the "cup or promotion" poll and quite a lot of this thread. Sorry if I got that wrong. Wasn't aimed at you btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10978 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I disagree brummiemag. Nobody is saying we don't want to win a cup, we're just saying that to field our strongest team would seriously jeapordise our promotion bid. Regardless of who owns us, getting back up has to be the priority. Once we're back in the big time, then we can reassess. If we've still a paper thin squad and no signs that we can add to it, then I'd say the cups should be put on the back burner. If, however, we've strengthened the squad, we should definitely look at the cups to breed positivity and bring glory back. But right now with this squad and the uncertainty looming over us? There's no way I'd risk promotion on a pointless assault on the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Also, while we'd really struggle if we went up, if Ashley was still in charge, what sort of position do you think we'll be in next season if we don't go up and Ashley is still the owner? The few decent players we have (Enrique and Barton for example) will then clear off and we'll be an average (or worse) Championship side with an even weaker squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 99 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 It's not as if there's a choice on offer between winning a cup and getting promoted. You'd have to describe winning a cup as an extremely long shot, we've not managed a domestic trophy in 54 years or so with much better squads and managers than at present I dont think anyone has been on about us realistically winning the cup in place of a nail on shot at getting promoted. Have they? Well I thought that was the point of the "cup or promotion" poll and quite a lot of this thread. Sorry if I got that wrong. Wasn't aimed at you btw. Well, I think it is yeah, but I also think surely its just a talking point as realistically, if the club said they were going hell bent on winning the cup, we'd get neither the cup nor promotion. I didnt think people actually thought we could go for the cup and win it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6700 Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 The point I was trying to make earlier Craig is that we should be going for promotion and the cups this season and both should be given equal priority. I know most people will be saying bollocks and promotion is the priority and I can understand that, but I guarantee that next season if we get promoted people will be saying survival is the priority. We will never be in a position where the argument is to give priority to a cup competitions. Whatever division we are in and whatever position we are in people will be saying the cups are not a priority. 15 or 20 years ago clubs were not playing weakened teams in the cups because they still meant something. People have been brainwashed by the sky tv bullshit - like for example when they say Burnley have never played in the Premier League, completely ignoring the fact they have a glorious history of playing in the top division. Its like football at the top level didnt exist till 1992 according to Sky tv - absolute bollocks Look at Villa, they went out of the Europa League on Thursday and unbelievably some fans were saying well at least now they can concentrate on the league. Its laughable, they can now concentrate on trying to qualify for a competition they have just been knocked out of and dont take seriously. Newcastle have a great tradition in cup competitions, lets keep it going You've stated your case well but personally I disagree. I think this season our squad is exceptionally thin and we need to react accordingly. Anything else is romantic folly imo. One line to perfectly react to 5 paragraphs.. I couldn't have put it better myself It's ridiculous comparing us to the likes of Villa when our current predicament is absolutely unique. If we had a squad size anywhere near a comparison to theirs I'd agree with you whole-heartedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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