Evolution suffers Kansas setback

[Guest alex]

In Rob's absence, from the Beeb:

The US state of Kansas has approved science standards for public schools that cast doubt on evolution.

The Board of Education's vote, expected for months, approved the new language criticising evolution by 6-4.

 

Proponents of the change argue they are trying to expose students to legitimate scientific questions about evolution.

 

The Kansas decision came as voters in Pennsylvania replaced all eight school board members who approved a similar policy in some of the state's schools.

 

Since October 2004, schools in Dover, Pennsylvania, have been obliged to read out a prepared statement on intelligent design in biology classes.

 

Teachers have been ordered to tell pupils that Darwin's theory of evolution is unproven, and that the universe is so complex that it may have been created by a higher power.

 

Last month parents in Dover sued the school board, accusing it of introducing religion and creationism into schools, in breach of the US constitutional separation of church and state.

 

Definition of science

 

Tuesday's vote in Kansas was the third time in six years that the Kansas board has rewritten standards with evolution as the central issue.

 

Current state standards treat evolution as well-established, a view held by national science groups.

 

The new standards include several specific challenges, including statements that there is a lack of evidence or natural explanation for the genetic code, and charges that fossil records are inconsistent with evolutionary theory.

 

It also states that says certain evolutionary explanations "are not based on direct observations... and often reflect... inferences from indirect or circumstantial evidence".

 

"This is a great day for education," board chairman Steve Abrams told the Reuters news agency.

 

Decisions about what is taught in Kansas classrooms will remain with 300 local school boards, but the new standards will be used to develop student tests measuring how well schools teach science.

 

Educators fear pressure will increase in some communities to teach less about evolution or more about creationism or intelligent design.

 

'Theory, not science'

 

In Dover, the first US district to introduce intelligent design into schools, new school board members are thought likely to repeal the policy.

 

"We are all for it being discussed, but we do not want to see it in biology class," said Judy McIlvaine, a new board member.

 

"It is not a science."

 

The case against the intelligent design policy was heard in a federal court case which ended last week.

 

A verdict is expected early next year.

 

God bless America

[Gemmill 46231]

Ever noticed that people who believe in Creationism look really unevolved?

 

- Bill Hicks

[adios 717]

And yet they'll reject teachings of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, disgraceful.

[Guest alex]

And yet they'll reject teachings of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, disgraceful.

54363[/snapback]

To mention his noodly appendage is immoral tbh

[adios 717]

To mention his noodly appendage is immoral tbh

54367[/snapback]

 

 

Well reducing education to some fanciful story pieced together for ulterior motives would indeed be...blasphemous.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

I suppose it could make the Biology exam a piece of piss. Just answer 'cos God said so' to every question.

[adios 717]

I suppose it could make the Biology exam a piece of piss. Just answer 'cos God said so' to every question.

54381[/snapback]

 

And Kansas will still have the highest fail rate in the country.

[shakermaker 0]

and george bush backed it up...i get more scared by the day

Edited November 9, 2005 by shakermaker

[ChocChip 0]

Just to balance it out here, 'Evolution' is a theory not an established fact i believe. It's based on about a few hundred bone samples. If it was believed to be 100% reliable then certain strains of humans de/evolved back into apes as they went through time (something i consider likely evrytime i leave the house actually!) To take an occasional partial skeleton here and there and say you have the definitive answer is a bit of a jump as any biologist in the field will tell you. It doesn't mean it has to be GOD instead, there could be many answers, it's not just one of two.

There's always the alien/ape breeding hypothesis for a start.......... ;-)

[Jimbo 175]

Just to balance it out here, 'Evolution' is a theory not an established fact i believe. It's based on about a few hundred bone samples. If it was believed to be 100% reliable then certain strains of humans de/evolved back into apes as they went through time (something i consider likely evrytime i leave the house actually!) To take an occasional partial skeleton here and there and say you have the definitive answer is a bit of a jump as any biologist in the field will tell you. It doesn't mean it has to be GOD instead, there could be many answers, it's not just one of two.

There's always the alien/ape breeding hypothesis for a start.......... ;-)

54402[/snapback]

 

 

you been looking through my porn collection !

[shakermaker 0]

Just to balance it out here, 'Evolution' is a theory not an established fact i believe. It's based on about a few hundred bone samples. If it was believed to be 100% reliable then certain strains of humans de/evolved back into apes as they went through time (something i consider likely evrytime i leave the house actually!) To take an occasional partial skeleton here and there and say you have the definitive answer is a bit of a jump as any biologist in the field will tell you. It doesn't mean it has to be GOD instead, there could be many answers, it's not just one of two.

There's always the alien/ape breeding hypothesis for a start.......... ;-)

54402[/snapback]

 

 

oh no it isnt,it's a whole science of evolutionary biology,which accounts for whole molecular evolutionary systems,not just humans,it even gives michael behe's irreducible complexity idea a good kicking.not new either as h.j muller was writing about it betwen the wars.i'll see if i cant find a handy synopsis of it.

[Guest alex]

More evidence for Evolution than anything in Genesis (not Phil Collins et al ).

[ChocChip 0]

Just to balance it out here, 'Evolution' is a theory not an established fact i believe. It's based on about a few hundred bone samples. If it was believed to be 100% reliable then certain strains of humans de/evolved back into apes as they went through time (something i consider likely evrytime i leave the house actually!) To take an occasional partial skeleton here and there and say you have the definitive answer is a bit of a jump as any biologist in the field will tell you. It doesn't mean it has to be GOD instead, there could be many answers, it's not just one of two.

There's always the alien/ape breeding hypothesis for a start.......... ;-)

54402[/snapback]

 

 

oh no it isnt,it's a whole science of evolutionary biology,which accounts for whole molecular evolutionary systems,not just humans,it even gives michael behe's irreducible complexity idea a good kicking.not new either as h.j muller was writing about it betwen the wars.i'll see if i cant find a handy synopsis of it.

54407[/snapback]

 

Apologies, i'm refering to the evolution from apes to humans. Also i'd like to point out that i am not a biologist nor have i studied, just read the occasional book and article. On this basis alone i am sure that the idea that humans came from apes is not a 100% certainty blah, blah, blah as per my earlier post. I'm not oblivious to the similarities but, though it may seem tongue in cheek, my every day observations would lead me to think apes descended from man. I see men/women behaving like monkeys all the time, and though i don't visiti the zoo often, i've yet to see a monkey act like me.

 

Try and restrain yourselves chaps before you respond to that last bit

Edited November 9, 2005 by ChocChip

[adios 717]

Just to balance it out here, 'Evolution' is a theory not an established fact i believe. It's based on about a few hundred bone samples. If it was believed to be 100% reliable then certain strains of humans de/evolved back into apes as they went through time (something i consider likely evrytime i leave the house actually!) To take an occasional partial skeleton here and there and say you have the definitive answer is a bit of a jump as any biologist in the field will tell you. It doesn't mean it has to be GOD instead, there could be many answers, it's not just one of two.

There's always the alien/ape breeding hypothesis for a start.......... ;-)

54402[/snapback]

 

You're right, evolution is the best theory we can come up with based on thousands of years of research. It's not quite a few bones here and there, though. But putting, say, Terry Pratchett novels as a theory on an equal footing would be ludicrous.

 

If this was about teaching kids (especially in the US) to have an open mind about things I would be crying tears of joy, literally. It's not, it's moronic at best.

[adios 717]

More evidence for Evolution than anything in Genesis (not Phil Collins et al ).

54410[/snapback]

 

Missing link?

 

CC - you can't just take human evolution on it's own and take it apart, the theory of evolution involves alot more, and all tied together it's very convincing. Right down to the level of doubt you have about evolution being in your genes.

[ChocChip 0]

Just to balance it out here, 'Evolution' is a theory not an established fact i believe. It's based on about a few hundred bone samples. If it was believed to be 100% reliable then certain strains of humans de/evolved back into apes as they went through time (something i consider likely evrytime i leave the house actually!) To take an occasional partial skeleton here and there and say you have the definitive answer is a bit of a jump as any biologist in the field will tell you. It doesn't mean it has to be GOD instead, there could be many answers, it's not just one of two.

There's always the alien/ape breeding hypothesis for a start.......... ;-)

54402[/snapback]

 

 

you been looking through my porn collection !

54404[/snapback]

 

I would that i had the time and the diligence

[shakermaker 0]

Just to balance it out here, 'Evolution' is a theory not an established fact i believe. It's based on about a few hundred bone samples. If it was believed to be 100% reliable then certain strains of humans de/evolved back into apes as they went through time (something i consider likely evrytime i leave the house actually!) To take an occasional partial skeleton here and there and say you have the definitive answer is a bit of a jump as any biologist in the field will tell you. It doesn't mean it has to be GOD instead, there could be many answers, it's not just one of two.

There's always the alien/ape breeding hypothesis for a start.......... ;-)

54402[/snapback]

 

 

you been looking through my porn collection !

54404[/snapback]

 

I would that i had the time and the diligence

54416[/snapback]

 

to be finished looking through his collection by the time your 90,you'd need to have started 8 years ago.

[ChocChip 0]

Just to balance it out here, 'Evolution' is a theory not an established fact i believe. It's based on about a few hundred bone samples. If it was believed to be 100% reliable then certain strains of humans de/evolved back into apes as they went through time (something i consider likely evrytime i leave the house actually!) To take an occasional partial skeleton here and there and say you have the definitive answer is a bit of a jump as any biologist in the field will tell you. It doesn't mean it has to be GOD instead, there could be many answers, it's not just one of two.

There's always the alien/ape breeding hypothesis for a start.......... ;-)

54402[/snapback]

 

 

you been looking through my porn collection !

54404[/snapback]

 

I would that i had the time and the diligence

54416[/snapback]

 

to be finished looking through his collection by the time your 90,you'd need to have started 8 years ago.

54418[/snapback]

 

What do you think Jimbo will evolve into?

[Gemmill 46231]

Just to balance it out here, 'Evolution' is a theory not an established fact i believe. It's based on about a few hundred bone samples. If it was believed to be 100% reliable then certain strains of humans de/evolved back into apes as they went through time (something i consider likely evrytime i leave the house actually!) To take an occasional partial skeleton here and there and say you have the definitive answer is a bit of a jump as any biologist in the field will tell you. It doesn't mean it has to be GOD instead, there could be many answers, it's not just one of two.

There's always the alien/ape breeding hypothesis for a start.......... ;-)

54402[/snapback]

 

 

you been looking through my porn collection !

54404[/snapback]

 

I would that i had the time and the diligence

54416[/snapback]

 

to be finished looking through his collection by the time your 90,you'd need to have started 8 years ago.

54418[/snapback]

 

What do you think Jimbo will evolve into?

54419[/snapback]

 

A pneumatic hand.

[shakermaker 0]

Just to balance it out here, 'Evolution' is a theory not an established fact i believe. It's based on about a few hundred bone samples. If it was believed to be 100% reliable then certain strains of humans de/evolved back into apes as they went through time (something i consider likely evrytime i leave the house actually!) To take an occasional partial skeleton here and there and say you have the definitive answer is a bit of a jump as any biologist in the field will tell you. It doesn't mean it has to be GOD instead, there could be many answers, it's not just one of two.

There's always the alien/ape breeding hypothesis for a start.......... ;-)

54402[/snapback]

 

 

you been looking through my porn collection !

54404[/snapback]

 

I would that i had the time and the diligence

54416[/snapback]

 

to be finished looking through his collection by the time your 90,you'd need to have started 8 years ago.

54418[/snapback]

 

What do you think Jimbo will evolve into?

54419[/snapback]

 

one eye,one knob and and overly grown right hand.

[Renton 22064]

Just to balance it out here, 'Evolution' is a theory not an established fact i believe. It's based on about a few hundred bone samples. If it was believed to be 100% reliable then certain strains of humans de/evolved back into apes as they went through time (something i consider likely evrytime i leave the house actually!) To take an occasional partial skeleton here and there and say you have the definitive answer is a bit of a jump as any biologist in the field will tell you. It doesn't mean it has to be GOD instead, there could be many answers, it's not just one of two.

There's always the alien/ape breeding hypothesis for a start.......... ;-)

54402[/snapback]

 

 

oh no it isnt,it's a whole science of evolutionary biology,which accounts for whole molecular evolutionary systems,not just humans,it even gives michael behe's irreducible complexity idea a good kicking.not new either as h.j muller was writing about it betwen the wars.i'll see if i cant find a handy synopsis of it.

54407[/snapback]

 

Apologies, i'm refering to the evolution from apes to humans. Also i'd like to point out that i am not a biologist nor have i studied, just read the occasional book and article. On this basis alone i am sure that the idea that humans came from apes is not a 100% certainty blah, blah, blah as per my earlier post. I'm not oblivious to the similarities but, though it may seem tongue in cheek, my every day observations would lead me to think apes descended from man. I see men/women behaving like monkeys all the time, and though i don't visiti the zoo often, i've yet to see a monkey act like me.

 

Try and restrain yourselves chaps before you respond to that last bit

54411[/snapback]

 

I haven't got a clue what you are whittering on about here, but you've just admitted you are essentially ignorant about the topic, so its probably no loss.

 

I doubt there are any biologists of any worth who doubt evolution is the mechanism that has created the biodiversity we see on the Earth, including ourselves. Their is still some argument over the the exact details of the mechanism of course. And I would agree that the evolution of a common ancestor of chimpanzees and man is one of the least understood areas. I think this is due to practical problems resulting from an incomplete fossil record (only a tiny proportion of skeletons fossilize) rather than those damn perverted aliens though.

[Gemmill 46231]

Just to balance it out here, 'Evolution' is a theory not an established fact i believe. It's based on about a few hundred bone samples. If it was believed to be 100% reliable then certain strains of humans de/evolved back into apes as they went through time (something i consider likely evrytime i leave the house actually!) To take an occasional partial skeleton here and there and say you have the definitive answer is a bit of a jump as any biologist in the field will tell you. It doesn't mean it has to be GOD instead, there could be many answers, it's not just one of two.

There's always the alien/ape breeding hypothesis for a start.......... ;-)

54402[/snapback]

 

 

oh no it isnt,it's a whole science of evolutionary biology,which accounts for whole molecular evolutionary systems,not just humans,it even gives michael behe's irreducible complexity idea a good kicking.not new either as h.j muller was writing about it betwen the wars.i'll see if i cant find a handy synopsis of it.

54407[/snapback]

 

Apologies, i'm refering to the evolution from apes to humans. Also i'd like to point out that i am not a biologist nor have i studied, just read the occasional book and article. On this basis alone i am sure that the idea that humans came from apes is not a 100% certainty blah, blah, blah as per my earlier post. I'm not oblivious to the similarities but, though it may seem tongue in cheek, my every day observations would lead me to think apes descended from man. I see men/women behaving like monkeys all the time, and though i don't visiti the zoo often, i've yet to see a monkey act like me.

 

Try and restrain yourselves chaps before you respond to that last bit

54411[/snapback]

 

I haven't got a clue what you are whittering on about here, but you've just admitted you are essentially ignorant about the topic, so its probably no loss.

 

I doubt there are any biologists of any worth who doubt evolution is the mechanism that has created the biodiversity we see on the Earth, including ourselves. Their is still some argument over the the exact details of the mechanism of course. And I would agree that the evolution of a common ancestor of chimpanzees and man is one of the least understood areas. I think this is due to practical problems resulting from an incomplete fossil record (only a tiny proportion of skeletons fossilize) rather than those damn perverted aliens though.

54422[/snapback]

 

Unevolved tbh.

[Renton 22064]

Unevolved tbh.

54423[/snapback]

 

 

There.

 

Happy.

[adios 717]

I haven't got a clue what you are whittering on about here, but you've just admitted you are essentially ignorant about the topic, so its probably no loss.

 

I doubt there are any biologists of any worth who doubt evolution is the mechanism that has created the biodiversity we see on the Earth, including ourselves. Their is still some argument over the the exact details of the mechanism of course. And I would agree that the evolution of a common ancestor of chimpanzees and man is one of the least understood areas. I think this is due to practical problems resulting from an incomplete fossil record (only a tiny proportion of skeletons fossilize) rather than those damn perverted aliens though.

54422[/snapback]

 

That all sounds a bit harsh!

 

I'm a believer in evolution right up to the unconcious mind being a facet of it but a healthy dose of doubt is very good in science. You know it's never certain and theories are evolving all the time. We're always waiting for the next piece of evidence to completely change a particular paradigm. Mind you, Biology is one of the more 'certain' sciences.

[NJS 4418]

Just read an interesting article this morning:

 

Evolution is fact

 

The morons can't grasp the time periods involved - I find it hard having read a few books on the subject. The common ancestor we share with Chimpanzees lived 6 million years ago - a scary concept which pales into insignificance compared with the 3.5 billion years of life itself.

 

I recently finished "The Ancestors Tale" by Dawkins and I'd recommend it. In the final paragraph he states his view which I share which is as follows:

 

"My objection to supernatural beliefs is precisely that they fail miserably to do justice to the sublime grandeur of the real world. They represent a narrowing-down of reality, an impoverishment of what the real world has to offer".

 

The idiots in Kansas fear knowledge - knowledge is the enemy of faith.