AgentAxeman 226 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Aye, if we were in Schengen I'd have less of an issue with ID cards. They do serve that purpose at least. Thats not the reason why they have them here. meebes i'm missing the point here. why are id cards needed in the 1st place if it does the same job as a passport? (which you already have). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11313 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Aye, if we were in Schengen I'd have less of an issue with ID cards. They do serve that purpose at least. Thats not the reason why they have them here. meebes i'm missing the point here. why are id cards needed in the 1st place if it does the same job as a passport? (which you already have). few things are given as the reasons behind ID cards, one of them being a method of reducing benefit fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 There are no benefits, it's state snooping gone mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentAxeman 226 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Aye, if we were in Schengen I'd have less of an issue with ID cards. They do serve that purpose at least. Thats not the reason why they have them here. meebes i'm missing the point here. why are id cards needed in the 1st place if it does the same job as a passport? (which you already have). few things are given as the reasons behind ID cards, one of them being a method of reducing benefit fraud. Law & Policy ID card benefits were exaggerated, admits government "Perhaps we ran away with our own enthusiasm," says minister Tags: identity cards, government, id cards Printer Friendly Email Story RSS By Andy McCue Published: 4 August 2005 12:40 BST Show related articles The UK government has admitted that it exaggerated the benefits of ID cards by claiming they would be a panacea for identity theft, benefit fraud and terrorism. The frank admission was made by Home Office minister Tony McNulty at a private meeting with a left-wing think tank. According to reports in today's newspapers, McNulty told the seminar: "Perhaps in the past the government, in its enthusiasm, oversold the advantages of identity cards. We did suggest, or at least implied, that they may well be a panacea for identity fraud, for benefit fraud, terrorism, entitlement and access to public services... Perhaps we ran away with our own enthusiasm." McNulty refused to apologise for overselling the benefits of ID cards but admitted they won't wipe out identity theft or terrorism. [Ministers] are trying to lift themselves out of the mire they have got themselves in but it is hard to conceive how they can justify going on with the bill after this. -- Phil Booth, national co-ordinator, No2ID "It will help where fraud and abuse of identity is part of the equation. It will help in the development of some - but not all - strategies to combat identity fraud, serious crime and terrorism," he told the seminar. McNulty also warned that the legislation to make the ID cards compulsory could end up in a deadlock if the House of Lords rejects it and sends it back to MPs. Under the ID cards bill, secondary legislation to make the cards compulsory has to be approved by both MPs and Lords. The comments represent yet another change in tactics by the government and the Home Office in trying to combat falling public support for biometric ID cards. McNulty indicated the government would now emphasise the benefits to the individual rather than the state. Phil Booth, national co-ordinator of the No2ID campaign group, told silicon.com the government has realised it is not going to be able to railroad the ID cards bill through parliament in the face of such concerted opposition from the public and MPs. "It's a damning set of admissions and you don't often hear a government minister saying they have oversold something. They are trying to lift themselves out of the mire they have got themselves in but it is hard to conceive how they can justify going on with the bill after this," he said. The ID cards scheme is also set to come under scrutiny from the National Audit Office as part of a drive by the Better Regulations Task Force to slash the amount of red tape and bureaucratic processes coming out of government departments, including the Home Office. Nope, still dont see any benefits........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11313 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Either way I don't feel like my rights are massively under risk by the government knowing what they already know about me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 Either way I don't feel like my rights are massively under risk by the government knowing what they already know about me. Here's a novel idea. It's my right to keep information about who I am to myself. Radical eh?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Either way I don't feel like my rights are massively under risk by the government knowing what they already know about me. Here's a novel idea. It's my right to keep information about who I am to myself. Radical eh?? Thatcherite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentAxeman 226 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Either way I don't feel like my rights are massively under risk by the government knowing what they already know about me. Here's a novel idea. It's my right to keep information about who I am to myself. Radical eh?? Thatcherite. Communist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Either way I don't feel like my rights are massively under risk by the government knowing what they already know about me. Here's a novel idea. It's my right to keep information about who I am to myself. Radical eh?? Thatcherite. Communist Well, there's a first. I was of course referring to the social contract between Parky and the state which guarantees his daughter an education and him facial surgery after his wife catches him feeding the pony of that 19 year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11313 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Either way I don't feel like my rights are massively under risk by the government knowing what they already know about me. Here's a novel idea. It's my right to keep information about who I am to myself. Radical eh?? I guess I just don't care if the government know my spending habits and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 Either way I don't feel like my rights are massively under risk by the government knowing what they already know about me. Here's a novel idea. It's my right to keep information about who I am to myself. Radical eh?? I guess I just don't care if the government know my spending habits and the like. It's not about yer Asda points make prizes card Fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11313 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 See there might be a point in my getting terrified of Gordon knowing that I buy some apple juice everyday, but I just don't see it. I don't commit the low-end fraud that will be picked up by this system and I'm pretty disdainful of those that do. I get that you've whipped yourself into a paranoid fervour but I just cannot muster the concern for my civil liberties, which I just don't see as being eroded... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentAxeman 226 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Either way I don't feel like my rights are massively under risk by the government knowing what they already know about me. Here's a novel idea. It's my right to keep information about who I am to myself. Radical eh?? Thatcherite. Communist Well, there's a first. I was of course referring to the social contract between Parky and the state which guarantees his daughter an education and him facial surgery after his wife catches him feeding the pony of that 19 year old. dont see why Parky should need an id card to get his kid into school. and i dont believe he's gonna need the hospital either cos theres no way he's going to smash that lass's pastie!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus 0 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 most people dont have a problem with id cards cos they dont know what they will be used for in the future. currently its what? for travel and benefit claim purposes? but in say 15 years time - what will it be used for? less stuff or more stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 How much is this meant to cost again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11313 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 most people dont have a problem with id cards cos they dont know what they will be used for in the future. currently its what? for travel and benefit claim purposes? but in say 15 years time - what will it be used for? less stuff or more stuff? Got to admit it'll be a phenominal tool for the research of human behaviour if it's used correctly. I know it's worrying to some that Big Brother is watching and I get that it opens the doors to an abuse of the information. But the very tool that could be used to corale the people could also be used to permit greater freedoms. Surely the Passport could have been seen as an infringement of civil liberties at one time? bit of a scatter shot post and I apologise for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Either way I don't feel like my rights are massively under risk by the government knowing what they already know about me. Here's a novel idea. It's my right to keep information about who I am to myself. Radical eh?? Thatcherite. Communist Well, there's a first. I was of course referring to the social contract between Parky and the state which guarantees his daughter an education and him facial surgery after his wife catches him feeding the pony of that 19 year old. dont see why Parky should need an id card to get his kid into school. and i dont believe he's gonna need the hospital either cos theres no way he's going to smash that lass's pastie!!! But if he doesnt let the state know he has a daughter, how will they know she needs an education? The point being that there is a social contract between the state and the individual that requires a sharing of information and service. I take your point about that lass's pastie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 "the Passport could have been seen as an infringement of civil liberties at one time" TBF it was - only countries such as Imperial Russia had INTERNAL passports although for a long time before about 1660 you officialy needed a one off Passport (exactly what it said on the label) to leave England - and they were issued by the Privy Council; so they weren't that easy to get They seem to have come in in a big way after WW1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11313 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 My point was that Passports are now no longer seen as any infringement on your rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 most people dont have a problem with id cards cos they dont know what they will be used for in the future. currently its what? for travel and benefit claim purposes? but in say 15 years time - what will it be used for? less stuff or more stuff? Got to admit it'll be a phenominal tool for the research of human behaviour if it's used correctly. I know it's worrying to some that Big Brother is watching and I get that it opens the doors to an abuse of the information. But the very tool that could be used to corale the people could also be used to permit greater freedoms. Surely the Passport could have been seen as an infringement of civil liberties at one time? bit of a scatter shot post and I apologise for that. It's when you start linking stuff that you get real problems. A CCTV camera for example is no big deal, even a lot of separate CCTV cameras probably aren't...... but linked CCTV cameras that can recognise your face and routinely track your movements are a whole other ballpark. Add into to that CCTV tracking system something that tracks the use of your ID card and a "speed/distance" checking GPS in your car and basically you may as well have someone following you around looking over your shoulder 24/7. Although it's also with the ID card that it's basically setting up a fingerprint database by the back door (the retina scan has much less human rights, privacy and fraud issues) which is what always has to be kept in mind with these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 When I take over all CCTV will be taken down and people won't have to carry any id as compulsory. All healthcare, public transport and education (for life) will be free. UK based business will have massive tax advantages over overseas based businesses that piggyback the UK market and nobody who is unemployed will get any money unless the contribute work (of some kind) to society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11313 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 When I am King, you'll be the first against the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 When I am King, you'll be the first against the wall. King??!! My first move will be to slaughter all Kings and wannabee Kings...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I seem to remember hearing / reading / seeing something that claimed about 75% of the world's CCTV cameras are in the UK. If true that is, at best, a little bizarre to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 I seem to remember hearing / reading / seeing something that claimed about 75% of the world's CCTV cameras are in the UK. If true that is, at best, a little bizarre to say the least. 250,000 in Greater Londres alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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