Kitman 2204 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Lennon was incredibly special all round and Jackson shouldn't really be mentioned in the same sentence. John Lennon released some absolute gash like At least in Lennon's case you can blame the decline in quality on Yoko. In Jacko's case there's no-one to blame but Bubbles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Lennon was incredibly special all round and Jackson shouldn't really be mentioned in the same sentence. John Lennon released some absolute gash like I know. ....and was a right twat to his wife(s) and kids I don't think engaging the legacies of Lennon and Jackson in a moral off is really a good idea, do you? I was refuting the "incredibly special all round" tag. Everyone has flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Lennon was incredibly special all round and Jackson shouldn't really be mentioned in the same sentence. John Lennon released some absolute gash like He did indeed. I think the difference between the two is outlined by Renton though in that you got the feeling there was no way Jackson would ever do anything decent ever again (plenty evidence to back that up as well). He died 10 years earlier than Wacko though...most people would agree that your forties on isn't really going to be peak of anyone's pop powers. Exactly, but surely that's the point. Although Jacko could have died at 30 and all his best stuff would have been out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44804 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I reckon Parky is one of those disturbing adult Jackson diehards the way he's going on. Typing with one glove on no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6682 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 As a tribute to both his dress sense and as a mark of respect I think we should all wear our trousers at half mast. A rendition of "I'm forever blowing bubbles" on the ipod too? BTW - what the fuck is Parky's problem? Was Jacko blowing him too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2204 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Lennon was incredibly special all round and Jackson shouldn't really be mentioned in the same sentence. John Lennon released some absolute gash like He did indeed. I think the difference between the two is outlined by Renton though in that you got the feeling there was no way Jackson would ever do anything decent ever again (plenty evidence to back that up as well). He died 10 years earlier than Wacko though...most people would agree that your forties on isn't really going to be peak of anyone's pop powers. Some artists buck the trend. Van Morrison, Tom Waits to name two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Yeah Id say Jade Goody was ridiculous, not Michael Jackson. Goody was a media invention, on the other hand Jacko invented the pop video, some legendary work. First black artist to get rotation on daytime MTV iirc. He invented the excessively expensive pop video to prop up a mediocre song maybe. What does 'rotation on daytime MTV ' mean, is that a significant achievement? And what work do you regard as legendary? Well, its been said this morning that him and Quincy Jones pulled together R & B,pop and Rock music in a way that had never been done before. I think that is pretty unarguable. Whether you liked it of course is entirely subjective. In a way he did a sort of reverse Elvis...he was (then) a black man using elements of popular music which were at the time seen as traditionally the preserve of white audiences and mixed them with what he was brought up with (R & B/Motown) to produce in the eighties two of the (and in fact the) biggest selling albums of all time. That was a huge acheivement for someone who had been up till then mostly performing in the hugely ghettoised black music industry.Motown, the home of the Jackson 5, was very successful,but mainly sold to only black kids. MTV was starting up at the time and he and his record company could see the value of huge flashy videos to promote his music to a huge new audience in what could be termed "middle America". In this, him and Quincy Jones changed the face of popular music. Excellent post. It was also a time when MTV was quite keen to keep black and 'white' music apart in the schedules. "Bad" stopped all that shit in its tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21570 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Yeah Id say Jade Goody was ridiculous, not Michael Jackson. Goody was a media invention, on the other hand Jacko invented the pop video, some legendary work. First black artist to get rotation on daytime MTV iirc. He invented the excessively expensive pop video to prop up a mediocre song maybe. What does 'rotation on daytime MTV ' mean, is that a significant achievement? And what work do you regard as legendary? Well, its been said this morning that him and Quincy Jones pulled together R & B,pop and Rock music in a way that had never been done before. I think that is pretty unarguable. Whether you liked it of course is entirely subjective. In a way he did a sort of reverse Elvis...he was (then) a black man using elements of popular music which were at the time seen as traditionally the preserve of white audiences and mixed them with what he was brought up with (R & B/Motown) to produce in the eighties two of the (and in fact the) biggest selling albums of all time. That was a huge acheivement for someone who had been up till then mostly performing in the hugely ghettoised black music industry.Motown, the home of the Jackson 5, was very successful,but mainly sold to only black kids. MTV was starting up at the time and he and his record company could see the value of huge flashy videos to promote his music to a huge new audience in what could be termed "middle America". In this, him and Quincy Jones changed the face of popular music. That's fair enough. As you say its all subjective/personal taste at the end of the day, I was just never a fan then or now. I did like his J5 stuff mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 As a tribute to both his dress sense and as a mark of respect I think we should all wear our trousers at half mast. A rendition of "I'm forever blowing bubbles" on the ipod too? BTW - what the fuck is Parky's problem? Was Jacko blowing him too? I assume he had tickets for the 02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I reckon Parky is one of those disturbing adult Jackson diehards the way he's going on. Typing with one glove on no doubt. His music saved me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21570 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I reckon Parky is one of those disturbing adult Jackson diehards the way he's going on. Typing with one glove on no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I reckon Parky is one of those disturbing adult Jackson diehards the way he's going on. Typing with one glove on no doubt. His music saved me. Can't remember you ever mentioning being into him before like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 As a tribute to both his dress sense and as a mark of respect I think we should all wear our trousers at half mast. A rendition of "I'm forever blowing bubbles" on the ipod too? BTW - what the fuck is Parky's problem? Was Jacko blowing him too? It's Elvis....Hendrix....Lennon It's only happened once before in my lifetime I think, with Cobain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 As a tribute to both his dress sense and as a mark of respect I think we should all wear our trousers at half mast. A rendition of "I'm forever blowing bubbles" on the ipod too? BTW - what the fuck is Parky's problem? Was Jacko blowing him too? Is there a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Lennon was incredibly special all round and Jackson shouldn't really be mentioned in the same sentence. John Lennon released some absolute gash like He did indeed. I think the difference between the two is outlined by Renton though in that you got the feeling there was no way Jackson would ever do anything decent ever again (plenty evidence to back that up as well). He died 10 years earlier than Wacko though...most people would agree that your forties on isn't really going to be peak of anyone's pop powers. Some artists buck the trend. Van Morrison, Tom Waits to name two. Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Leadbelly, BB.King, Lightnin' Hopkins, Johnny Cash and a few more all peaked very late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 As a tribute to both his dress sense and as a mark of respect I think we should all wear our trousers at half mast. A rendition of "I'm forever blowing bubbles" on the ipod too? BTW - what the fuck is Parky's problem? Was Jacko blowing him too? It's Elvis....Hendrix....Lennon It's only happened once before in my lifetime I think, with Cobain. Hendrix - A proper black man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I reckon Parky is one of those disturbing adult Jackson diehards the way he's going on. Typing with one glove on no doubt. His music saved me. Can't remember you ever mentioning being into him before like. Nobody on here knows the first thing about me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10849 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 As an aside, I wonder how the O2 will fill those dates now They stand to lose a fair whack of cash unless it's somethng pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2204 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Yeah Id say Jade Goody was ridiculous, not Michael Jackson. Goody was a media invention, on the other hand Jacko invented the pop video, some legendary work. First black artist to get rotation on daytime MTV iirc. He invented the excessively expensive pop video to prop up a mediocre song maybe. What does 'rotation on daytime MTV ' mean, is that a significant achievement? And what work do you regard as legendary? Well, its been said this morning that him and Quincy Jones pulled together R & B,pop and Rock music in a way that had never been done before. I think that is pretty unarguable. Whether you liked it of course is entirely subjective. In a way he did a sort of reverse Elvis...he was (then) a black man using elements of popular music which were at the time seen as traditionally the preserve of white audiences and mixed them with what he was brought up with (R & B/Motown) to produce in the eighties two of the (and in fact the) biggest selling albums of all time. That was a huge acheivement for someone who had been up till then mostly performing in the hugely ghettoised black music industry.Motown, the home of the Jackson 5, was very successful,but mainly sold to only black kids. MTV was starting up at the time and he and his record company could see the value of huge flashy videos to promote his music to a huge new audience in what could be termed "middle America". In this, him and Quincy Jones changed the face of popular music. Maybe that's right but I don't remember music being ghetto-ised between white and black audiences when Thriller came out. Not in the UK anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 As an aside, I wonder how the O2 will fill those dates now They stand to lose a fair whack of cash unless it's somethng pretty good. Logical option would be Craig David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Now looking like it might be a hereditary condition passed down through his family. They're calling it "The Billie Gene". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Yeah Id say Jade Goody was ridiculous, not Michael Jackson. Goody was a media invention, on the other hand Jacko invented the pop video, some legendary work. First black artist to get rotation on daytime MTV iirc. He invented the excessively expensive pop video to prop up a mediocre song maybe. What does 'rotation on daytime MTV ' mean, is that a significant achievement? And what work do you regard as legendary? Well, its been said this morning that him and Quincy Jones pulled together R & B,pop and Rock music in a way that had never been done before. I think that is pretty unarguable. Whether you liked it of course is entirely subjective. In a way he did a sort of reverse Elvis...he was (then) a black man using elements of popular music which were at the time seen as traditionally the preserve of white audiences and mixed them with what he was brought up with (R & B/Motown) to produce in the eighties two of the (and in fact the) biggest selling albums of all time. That was a huge acheivement for someone who had been up till then mostly performing in the hugely ghettoised black music industry.Motown, the home of the Jackson 5, was very successful,but mainly sold to only black kids. MTV was starting up at the time and he and his record company could see the value of huge flashy videos to promote his music to a huge new audience in what could be termed "middle America". In this, him and Quincy Jones changed the face of popular music. Maybe that's right but I don't remember music being ghetto-ised between white and black audiences when Thriller came out. Not in the UK anyway. And Motown mainly sold to black kids? That's a new one on me like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Yeah Id say Jade Goody was ridiculous, not Michael Jackson. Goody was a media invention, on the other hand Jacko invented the pop video, some legendary work. First black artist to get rotation on daytime MTV iirc. He invented the excessively expensive pop video to prop up a mediocre song maybe. What does 'rotation on daytime MTV ' mean, is that a significant achievement? And what work do you regard as legendary? Well, its been said this morning that him and Quincy Jones pulled together R & B,pop and Rock music in a way that had never been done before. I think that is pretty unarguable. Whether you liked it of course is entirely subjective. In a way he did a sort of reverse Elvis...he was (then) a black man using elements of popular music which were at the time seen as traditionally the preserve of white audiences and mixed them with what he was brought up with (R & B/Motown) to produce in the eighties two of the (and in fact the) biggest selling albums of all time. That was a huge acheivement for someone who had been up till then mostly performing in the hugely ghettoised black music industry.Motown, the home of the Jackson 5, was very successful,but mainly sold to only black kids. MTV was starting up at the time and he and his record company could see the value of huge flashy videos to promote his music to a huge new audience in what could be termed "middle America". In this, him and Quincy Jones changed the face of popular music. Maybe that's right but I don't remember music being ghetto-ised between white and black audiences when Thriller came out. Not in the UK anyway. MTV was primarily an American entity at that point. And it was due to Jacko and Quincy and the use of guitars in disco that they couldn't keep it off American MTV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6682 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 As a tribute to both his dress sense and as a mark of respect I think we should all wear our trousers at half mast. A rendition of "I'm forever blowing bubbles" on the ipod too? BTW - what the fuck is Parky's problem? Was Jacko blowing him too? It's Elvis....Hendrix....Lennon It's only happened once before in my lifetime I think, with Cobain. One of my mates at school had tickets to see Nivarna and never shut up about it for weeks - never saw him for days after Cobain munched on the shells! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Lennon was incredibly special all round and Jackson shouldn't really be mentioned in the same sentence. John Lennon released some absolute gash like He did indeed. I think the difference between the two is outlined by Renton though in that you got the feeling there was no way Jackson would ever do anything decent ever again (plenty evidence to back that up as well). He died 10 years earlier than Wacko though...most people would agree that your forties on isn't really going to be peak of anyone's pop powers. Some artists buck the trend. Van Morrison, Tom Waits to name two. Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Leadbelly, BB.King, Lightnin' Hopkins, Johnny Cash and a few more all peaked very late. I don't think many of those had an international number one BEFORE they were forty, let alone after. Either way, it's not even about quality which is subjective, it's about transcending music. It might be that you don't like Michael Jackson. But he's been the most prominent pop culture icon for 30 year, whatever his output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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