Take administration now.

[Park Life 71]

I dont know why it is a good thing for Ashley but I do believe that he has contemplated it already. When I was originally told the stuff about Administration being imminent if we went down it came from not one but two seperate credible sources.

 

The story was then broken nearly two weeks later by Alan Oliver, as Ive said previously in a different thread, I cant see what had changed football wise on Sunday March 29th to suddenly make Ashley call up Shearer. We hadnt had a game for a week so its not like we got tonked the day before and he finally woke up. I personally believe its too coincidental, the timing of us suddenly wanting to stay up enough to beg Shearer being the same day as this story.

 

Again though, what he achieves I dont know, from everything Ive read all football debts must be paid in full, thats players contracts, outstanding transfer fees the lot. After that comes the other creditors including the taxman.

 

What does worry me is that we know Ashley is refusing any money out of the club, not even for petty cash, coffee in the meetings, anything. Its a fair bet then that the club is living on its credit rating, as seen by the reposession of Llambias car. How many months of non-payment does it take before they reposess a car? what about the hotel costs for players, Llambias and others etc? local companies who were more than happy to supply the temporary staff, catering supplies etc under the belief that there was no way a business as high profile as the football club would default on their payments.

 

The rumour months ago was that Mort had to come her personally and demand the money that was owed to Freshfields as it hadnt been paid months after it was due.

 

Could it be that every single penny that would have gone to pay other bills has instead gone to paying off the debt to SJ Holdings?

If so, just how much of that £100m is still outstanding?

How much of it went in that mortgage we found back in November?

What about the January transfers? is it possible that the likes of Given were now owned by say SJ Holdings and therefore any payment is due to them and not NUFC?

 

I havent got a clue on the answers above but the potential for these and a lot more worry me shitless.

 

Some sanity in the thread at last.

 

I personally believe the club is in very serious trouble and without looking I'm absolutely sure Ashley has been upto no good whatsoever the last few weeks.

 

Ken Bates iirc went into voluntary admin with one company that owned Leeds and they bought it back with a newly created vehicle for that purpose. This manouvre has been studies to this day with regard to its legality. These guys can get upto all sorts.

 

As an aside Ashley has opened a discount warehouse in the former home of Burberry, on Haymarket in london. The store, selling sports goods for as little as £1, is set to anger Crown Estate, which blocked TK Maxx's bid to open up in Piccadilly Circus because it was deemed too tacky.

 

He's just a fat chav

 

Aye. He's lacked a sense of duty and quality since day one.

[Park Life 71]

Makes no sense considering Ashley is our main creditor.

 

It happens when they just want to write off debts rather than digging themselves deeper, it's actually pretty similar to what initially happened to Darlington FC.

 

 

Which is why it's been hanging over us since relegation, and one of the potential reasons for relegation to be such a nightmare.

 

 

You'd have to hope that Assley would want to keep the club going and hope for a decent sale, but given that he's acted like a fuck wit in every other decision he's made regarding NUFC, administration is probably quite likely now.

 

You think the price is too high?

[The Fish 11068]

all said and done I think we're at opposite ends of the scale here. You and pud seemed to think is Nostradamus, end -of-the-world stuff with regards to the finances, I actually think once we're sold, we'll be in a very healthy position to attack the charge back to the Premiership

[Park Life 71]

all said and done I think we're at opposite ends of the scale here. You and pud seemed to think is Nostradamus, end -of-the-world stuff with regards to the finances, I actually think once we're sold, we'll be in a very healthy position to attack the charge back to the Premiership

 

What's the club worth now in the CCC?

 

With virtually no player assets.

 

Support on the verge of walking away.

 

God knows what owed to who all over the place.

 

Running on credit from Barclays Bank.

[Park Life 71]

Fuck me another numpty talking about getting money for selling players on N.O.

[trophyshy 7095]

When you say 'take administration' is this a bit like Deal or no Deal?

 

Serious question, can we take it at a time of our choosing? Or is it something forced upon us by an inability to pay our debts?

[Park Life 71]

When you say 'take administration' is this a bit like Deal or no Deal?

 

Serious question, can we take it at a time of our choosing? Or is it something forced upon us by an inability to pay our debts?

 

I mean I'd rather file for it now before Ashley runs the club into the ground and (as me and Pud suspect) divert the cash. I agree Ashley wants to wait till the last possible minute for a buyer even though he doesn't want to put anymore money in as he's said a couple of times now. I don't understand the legal fine points but he will ultimately force it by not paying people/things as he's started to do.

 

The club is seriously short of real assets apart from the odd player that can be converted.

[trophyshy 7095]

Yeah agreed, all fuckface wants is to lose no more money. This is fucking terrible for a million reasons, we need a buyer, yesterday, who is prepared to back the club and not just invest cash but NURTURE the club and be open with the fans, two of Ashley's biggest failings tbh.

[Kitman 2207]

I personally think he'll sell, I can't see how he'd be better off by putting the club into administration. I think what's happening is he's flogging his car but refusing to pay for any more petrol or running costs. He's gambling that he can sell the car before the petrol runs out.

 

Obviously there might be some shenanigans we don't know about it and I'm more nervous about it the longer the sale process goes on. Him and LLambias look as dodgy as, I wouldn't trust them to mind my pint while I go to the bogs frankly. But based on what I've read to date I think he just wants out asap and I think he'd prefer to sell up to achieve that, it's the quickest/cleanest/best option from his pov.

[trophyshy 7095]

He is going to get so much shit for the rest of his life for this astonishing debacle. That's the silver lining. He'll never live it down, as he cruises the world on his luxury yacht, sleeping on a pile of money, surrounded by beautiful ladies.

[Park Life 71]

I personally think he'll sell, I can't see how he'd be better off by putting the club into administration. I think what's happening is he's flogging his car but refusing to pay for any more petrol or running costs. He's gambling that he can sell the car before the petrol runs out.

 

Obviously there might be some shenanigans we don't know about it and I'm more nervous about it the longer the sale process goes on. Him and LLambias look as dodgy as, I wouldn't trust them to mind my pint while I go to the bogs frankly. But based on what I've read to date I think he just wants out asap and I think he'd prefer to sell up to achieve that, it's the quickest/cleanest/best option from his pov.

 

This selling lark ain't gonna be so easy.

[Park Life 71]

He is going to get so much shit for the rest of his life for this astonishing debacle. That's the silver lining. He'll never live it down, as he cruises the world on his luxury yacht, sleeping on a pile of money, surrounded by beautiful ladies.

[The Fish 11068]

I just cannot believe that we're not an attractive purchase to an owner who wants a Premiership club with all the trappings that come with that (prestige, history, chance of glory) but at a reduced price and reduced expectations.

 

I know there are people who think Ashley has pulled an emporers new clothes fiasco, but I honestly believe that we're in better condition than you think.

[trophyshy 7095]

I just cannot believe that we're not an attractive purchase to an owner who wants a Premiership club with all the trappings that come with that (prestige, history, chance of glory) but at a reduced price and reduced expectations.

 

I know there are people who think Ashley has pulled an emporers new clothes fiasco, but I honestly believe that we're in better condition than you think.

 

I hate to break this to you buddy, but we ain't no god damn Premiership Club, and the Championship don't mean diddly outside these shores.

[Fop 1]

Makes no sense considering Ashley is our main creditor.

 

It happens when they just want to write off debts rather than digging themselves deeper, it's actually pretty similar to what initially happened to Darlington FC.

 

 

Which is why it's been hanging over us since relegation, and one of the potential reasons for relegation to be such a nightmare.

 

 

You'd have to hope that Assley would want to keep the club going and hope for a decent sale, but given that he's acted like a fuck wit in every other decision he's made regarding NUFC, administration is probably quite likely now.

 

You think the price is too high?

 

Thinking that anyone looking at how Assley has run things and how he repeatedly (and needlessly) seems to panic and shoot himself in the foot, might well hold off and see if they can get a real bargain (assuming anyone is actually interested in the club ).

 

Of course the club may totally implode by then.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Fop

[Kitman 2207]

I personally think he'll sell, I can't see how he'd be better off by putting the club into administration. I think what's happening is he's flogging his car but refusing to pay for any more petrol or running costs. He's gambling that he can sell the car before the petrol runs out.

 

Obviously there might be some shenanigans we don't know about it and I'm more nervous about it the longer the sale process goes on. Him and LLambias look as dodgy as, I wouldn't trust them to mind my pint while I go to the bogs frankly. But based on what I've read to date I think he just wants out asap and I think he'd prefer to sell up to achieve that, it's the quickest/cleanest/best option from his pov.

 

This selling lark ain't gonna be so easy.

 

Granted. It's all about the price innit.

[Isegrim 10017]

I dont know why it is a good thing for Ashley but I do believe that he has contemplated it already. When I was originally told the stuff about Administration being imminent if we went down it came from not one but two seperate credible sources.

 

The story was then broken nearly two weeks later by Alan Oliver, as Ive said previously in a different thread, I cant see what had changed football wise on Sunday March 29th to suddenly make Ashley call up Shearer. We hadnt had a game for a week so its not like we got tonked the day before and he finally woke up. I personally believe its too coincidental, the timing of us suddenly wanting to stay up enough to beg Shearer being the same day as this story.

 

Again though, what he achieves I dont know, from everything Ive read all football debts must be paid in full, thats players contracts, outstanding transfer fees the lot. After that comes the other creditors including the taxman.

 

What does worry me is that we know Ashley is refusing any money out of the club, not even for petty cash, coffee in the meetings, anything. Its a fair bet then that the club is living on its credit rating, as seen by the reposession of Llambias car. How many months of non-payment does it take before they reposess a car? what about the hotel costs for players, Llambias and others etc? local companies who were more than happy to supply the temporary staff, catering supplies etc under the belief that there was no way a business as high profile as the football club would default on their payments.

 

The rumour months ago was that Mort had to come her personally and demand the money that was owed to Freshfields as it hadnt been paid months after it was due.

 

Could it be that every single penny that would have gone to pay other bills has instead gone to paying off the debt to SJ Holdings?

If so, just how much of that £100m is still outstanding?

How much of it went in that mortgage we found back in November?

What about the January transfers? is it possible that the likes of Given were now owned by say SJ Holdings and therefore any payment is due to them and not NUFC?

 

I havent got a clue on the answers above but the potential for these and a lot more worry me shitless.

 

Some sanity in the thread at last.

 

It could have done with the OT...

 

So far nobody really knows about what is going to happen, but it is fairly unparkylike to create doommongering scenarios. Though, looking at his track record everything will be fantastic within a few days.....

[Fop 1]

It's also probably lucky we don't have the assets we might have, if we had a saleable ground, we might find the "club" already in administration but with Assley holding onto all the assets himself.

 

 

As it stands he has to keep the club somewhat viable to have anything really to sell, although given that he clearly is "special" with the cool, calm and calculating nature of a 2 year old girl in a frenzy about monsters under the bed and the intestinal fortitude of an incontinent 103 year old, Ra only knows what he'll do.

[Park Life 71]

It's also probably lucky we don't have the assets we might have, if we had a saleable ground, we might find the "club" already in administration but with Assley holding onto all the assets himself.

 

 

As it stands he has to keep the club somewhat viable to have anything really to sell, although given that he clearly is "special" with the cool, calm and calculating nature of a 2 year old girl in a frenzy about monsters under the bed and the intestinal fortitude of an incontinent 103 year old, Ra only knows what he'll do.

 

 

Praise be to Ra.

[Matt 0]

Could it be that every single penny that would have gone to pay other bills has instead gone to paying off the debt to SJ Holdings?

If so, just how much of that £100m is still outstanding?

How much of it went in that mortgage we found back in November?

What about the January transfers? is it possible that the likes of Given were now owned by say SJ Holdings and therefore any payment is due to them and not NUFC?

 

I havent got a clue on the answers above but the potential for these and a lot more worry me shitless.

 

 

Whatever way you slice and dice it, the net sale price to Ashley should be the same. If he repaid part of his loan ahead of others, then the sale price will go down to reflect that.

 

I still find it hard to believe anyone is seriously considering offering £100m for the club when they just have to sit back, watch the shit hit the fan and stand ready by the phone with their cash still in their pocket. From the sounds of it we're struggling to settle even routine payments.

 

Administration does little solve the problem with players- as football creditors the league insists payments are honoured in full. Everything depends on the realism of Ashley's asking price.

[The Fish 11068]

I just cannot believe that we're not an attractive purchase to an owner who wants a Premiership club with all the trappings that come with that (prestige, history, chance of glory) but at a reduced price and reduced expectations.

 

I know there are people who think Ashley has pulled an emporers new clothes fiasco, but I honestly believe that we're in better condition than you think.

 

I hate to break this to you buddy, but we ain't no god damn Premiership Club, and the Championship don't mean diddly outside these shores.

 

To be fair trophy, we are a Premiership club in everything but league position. The right investor would not look at us as a small club to make big, but a big club to return to glory. Most of the work is done for them, we have the stadium, the reputation, the facilities and the support.

[peasepud 59]

Could it be that every single penny that would have gone to pay other bills has instead gone to paying off the debt to SJ Holdings?

If so, just how much of that £100m is still outstanding?

How much of it went in that mortgage we found back in November?

What about the January transfers? is it possible that the likes of Given were now owned by say SJ Holdings and therefore any payment is due to them and not NUFC?

 

I havent got a clue on the answers above but the potential for these and a lot more worry me shitless.

 

 

Whatever way you slice and dice it, the net sale price to Ashley should be the same. If he repaid part of his loan ahead of others, then the sale price will go down to reflect that.

 

I still find it hard to believe anyone is seriously considering offering £100m for the club when they just have to sit back, watch the shit hit the fan and stand ready by the phone with their cash still in their pocket. From the sounds of it we're struggling to settle even routine payments.

 

Administration does little solve the problem with players- as football creditors the league insists payments are honoured in full. Everything depends on the realism of Ashley's asking price.

 

I dont see how this bit works, Im not doubting you but I just dont understand it.

 

Working from what we've been led to believe, Ashley bought the club for £130m and then loaned it £100m giving him a total outlay of £230m yes? Now he says hes selling for £100m and we're being led to believe the debt is scratched off (I've personally never read anything official that states this though). In my view that means whatever money is owed to St James' Holdings on the day of the sale is lost to them (Ashley). Now as far as he is concerned that money could be £100m or it could be £20m either way the new owners will owe him zero and he will still have met the original deal ie £100m for the club and no money owed to Ashley.

 

Its down to the potential buyers to realise that the debts are mounting up I would imagine, how far due diligence goes Im not sure.

 

To use an earlier analogy of the advertised car and petrol, in the advert hes saying that it comes with whatever petrol is in it at the time of purchase. Ashley is just going to make sure he goes for a very very long drive before dropping it off.

 

It could be that Im totally off the mark here and all debts are being paid on time to whoever but it doesnt look that way when you see the BMW fiasco. We dont just go into Administration / Bankruptcy (whats the difference? I honestly dont know???) when Ashley decides we do. If hes not paying bills then a/n other creditor can file for it cant they? What if that creditor is HMRC? A hell of a lot of money can be owed to them in a short period of time at a football club. If the projections of £72m annual wage bill is correct then thats half a million per week in Tax and NI payments. Considering HMRC gets paid monthly then £2m unpaid before anyone even has a chance to notice. Im assuming (its not my area, maybe Mancy would know) that HMRC maybe goes a full quarter of missed payments before starting proceedings? thats 6 maybe 7m owed before they kick off properly.

 

Take a looky here > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7741859.stm from November last year, now if Leicester can run up £7m debt to the taxman, Ipswich £5m and Luton £2.5m on their wage bill then what the fuck could we be owing?

 

According to stuff Ive been reading Lutons debt to the taxman was on a wage bill of £4m! Using that logic then we could rack up about 40m debt to the taxman before he kicks off big time.

[trophyshy 7095]

I just cannot believe that we're not an attractive purchase to an owner who wants a Premiership club with all the trappings that come with that (prestige, history, chance of glory) but at a reduced price and reduced expectations.

 

I know there are people who think Ashley has pulled an emporers new clothes fiasco, but I honestly believe that we're in better condition than you think.

 

I hate to break this to you buddy, but we ain't no god damn Premiership Club, and the Championship don't mean diddly outside these shores.

 

To be fair trophy, we are a Premiership club in everything but league position. The right investor would not look at us as a small club to make big, but a big club to return to glory. Most of the work is done for them, we have the stadium, the reputation, the facilities and the support.

 

Yeah, I knew what you were alluding to really and don't disagree, but we are currently in the shop window at BHS and not House of Fraser.

[peasepud 59]

I just cannot believe that we're not an attractive purchase to an owner who wants a Premiership club with all the trappings that come with that (prestige, history, chance of glory) but at a reduced price and reduced expectations.

 

I know there are people who think Ashley has pulled an emporers new clothes fiasco, but I honestly believe that we're in better condition than you think.

 

I hate to break this to you buddy, but we ain't no god damn Premiership Club, and the Championship don't mean diddly outside these shores.

 

To be fair trophy, we are a Premiership club in everything but league position. The right investor would not look at us as a small club to make big, but a big club to return to glory. Most of the work is done for them, we have the stadium, the reputation, the facilities and the support.

 

Yeah, I knew what you were alluding to really and don't disagree, but we are currently in the shop window at BHS Aldi and not House of Fraser.

 

FYP

[The Fish 11068]

I could look at our position and give up hope, but that's not my nature. Until the final nail is in the coffin I'll always have hope. Did about avoiding relegation and I will about this. I'm just not prepared to give up.