BNP wins seats

[The Fish 10965]

Stevie, they're racist, they've no real idea how they'll enforce the changes they promise and the policies that they're running on are paper thin and ill-conceived.

 

I understand frustration towards the major parties, but a protest vote would be better spent on an independent, or the Green party. At least neither of those options give ignorant racists a megaphone. The story is no longer how awful the central parties are, but how terrible the BNP is. Surely a protest against the directionless central parties should be loud and clear, not lost under the public outrage at the election of bigots and neanderthals?

 

A vote for the BNP is indefensible. Fact-a-lacker-ding-dong

 

 

[ChezGiven 0]

Far left mainstream media?

 

 

 

 

yes, sorry kidda but the 1st thing any gov does when it gets in is put people in positions of power at all gov controlled media (eg bbc). this then filters down into mainstream media. also all political press releases are directly from the goverment themselves so the media have no choice but to print what is given to them.

 

and before you say the goverment isnt far left just consider that throughout the tenure over half the cabinet ministers have at one time or another been a member of the communist party and if thats not far left then i dont know what is??

 

 

if you think i'm wrong then thats your perogative. if you think i voted for the wrong party at the last round of elections, again thats your perogative. however that doesnt change what i believe. i dont criticise you for your beliefs now do i??

 

 

I wasnt criticising anything, i was just laughing at the notion that Newscorp, Express Group and Barclays are far left media.

 

In fact i'm still laughing at it.

[Renton 22001]

Of course I find some of their original policies deplorable, humane repatriation will never work, if they got in it would be a machine job outside their shops and forced on to vans down to Dover, but having said that do have good policies. Not least banning yank telly from our screens, their EU policy and limited coverage of all foreign sports. UKIP are the way forward and at 17% of the vote from 0% 10 years ago, we finally have hope that things will get better in terms of immigration.

 

The US telly one is a scream for starters - it comes from their underlying notion that "British" is perfect for everything and if we just remove all the outside influences, all our problems would magically disappear - its beyond stupid.

 

As for the EU as I've said until the BNP or the UKIP can actually explain how the economy would work without it, leaving is a non-starter.

 

How anyone can believe the crap UKIP spout is beyond me. Look at who they are ffs, they are basically the extreme right wing loony fringe of mainstream politics, extories with views that were too unpalatable for the tory party. White middle class little Englanders who are utterly corrupt and do not stand for anything positive.

 

As for the BNP, it's ironic, but rather than feel any sense of nationalistic pride in them it make me feel ashamed that nearly one million British people would like us to live in a fascist state. There's simply no excuse for using BNP as a protest vote either, none whatsoever.

 

 

whats wrong with being white, middle class and from england?? ffs you've just killed yer own argument by saying something racist.

i reckon you must have got this straight from the pen of Polly Toynbee, that well known, well balanced socialist who believes everyone should be equal as long as theres still champange and caviar for her and her mates.

whilst i agree that everyone should have they're say all your doing is exactly what you accuse the "far right" of doing which is belittling and criticising everyone who doesnt share your world view.

 

grow up man ffs. you should be more intelligent than to believe the propaganda the far left mainstream media feeds you.

 

'Far left mainstream media' - what a load of bollocks.

 

There's nothing wrong with being white and middle class or from England. What I have a problem with is people who are Little Englanders in the 21st century, which is what I stated if you bothered to read what I said. Narrow-minded xenophobes who want us out of Europe whatever the consequences, the same people who have some bizarre idea that they, historically the most priveleged in our society, are somehow victimised and 'aren't allowed to be proud of being English'. The leadership of UKIP and their policies are pathetic - IN MY OPINION. Now, how is any of that in any way racist, please explain?

 

Anyway, UKIP are essentially a one issue party that get some attention every 4 years come European election time. They'll fade into the background now for another 4 years, quite happily and quietly pocketing the maximum of their expenses while doing nothing of any value in the meantime. They're parasites at the end of the day, I'm glad our region isn't represented by them. How anyone thinks they could benefit the North East I don't know.

 

 

good point about ukip.

mind you i'm also struggling to figure out how the eu actually helps the north east??

 

oh and you did state "white, middle class little englanders"

its a bit specific...

 

 

but i take your point

 

For two reasons. First, being in the EU is vital for trade, from which the whole country benefits. But secondly, the EU has a policy of developing underprivileged areas of the Union, of which we are certainly one.

 

Regarding the media, they absolutely love reporting on the negative aspects of being in the EU (including made up ones) but rarely touch on the benefits, which objectively outweigh the drawbacks; that's why the EU has so many members and why other countries are desperate to join (and why none of the mainstream parties seriously want to leave the EU). It's partly against this backdrop, as well as the failure of the EU to positively promote itself, that we have a rise in euroskepticism amongst the public.

 

I know a bloke who likes nothing better than to complain about England, ranging from the state of the roads, the behaviour of children, and the usual PC gone mad Daily Mail stuff. He holidays regularly in France, and loves it, constantly saying how much better things are over there. And what does he vote? UKIP. I'm sorry, I just don't get this type of mentality, it all strikes me as odd and depressing.

[Guest Stevie]

Stevie, they're racist, they've no real idea how they'll enforce the changes they promise and the policies that they're running on are paper thin and ill-conceived.

I understand frustration towards the major parties, but a protest vote would be better spent on an independent, or the Green party. At least neither of those options give ignorant racists a megaphone. The story is no longer how awful the central parties are, but how terrible the BNP is. Surely a protest against the directionless central parties should be loud and clear, not lost under the public outrage at the election of bigots and neanderthals?

 

A vote for the BNP is indefensible. Fact-a-lacker-ding-dong

 

 

That has been discussed at length in the past why bring it up again apart from highlighting the fact you have nothing to say once more?

[The Fish 10965]

My point is that you're defending a BNP vote when it's patently obvious that it's indefensible.

 

p.s. complaining that someone has brought something up that has been discussed to death is a little hypocritical coming from you, no?

[Guest Stevie]

My point is that you're defending a BNP vote when it's patently obvious that it's indefensible.

 

p.s. complaining that someone has brought something up that has been discussed to death is a little hypocritical coming from you, no?

No.

[The Fish 10965]

aye right.

[NJS 4411]

How would it solve England's left wing problem? This question is about as relevant as yours. I haven't seen the white underclass bring the world's greatest city, and centre of the global financial melting pot to it's knees. I don't have anything against muslims myself individually, you get good and bad in all walks of life, but failure to wish to integrate should mean do one, no one can ever change my mind about that..."oh the English in Spain..." blah blah bollocks.

 

The IRA used to do the same - (now hopefully consigned to history) that didn't and doesn't mean that a purge of Irishmen would have been the answer.

 

It's all about day to day as well - I was affected on July 7th but millions weren't - I'm not affected by charvers but thousands are - I'd say to the degree that an answer to underclass probllem would benefit more people than any perceived issues on immigration.

 

 

Before the last decade nobody gave Muslim immigration in this country a second thought so for decades everybody was "happy" with it. Of course world events can change things but again I'd ask - how would the people who voted BNP benefit on a day to day basis if immgration was halted or reversed?

 

 

Back to the point about America, our cities are beginning to look like them, shopping "malls", 6 lane motorways "or should I say freeways", tall buildings everywhere (of should I say sky scapers) even fucking numbers and names on the back of footballers shirts! We have a weakened identity caused by external forces, and it's all going to fuck now, there's a myriad of reasons for it, yank media influence is just one, albeit a significant one.

 

What you or I would call English culture has changed in the years since the war - I think for the better in general - I don't want to go back to a time when there was no real choice of resteraunt or when the only family holiday you could have was either Butlins or caravanning.

 

The genie of a global village is out of the bottle - it may be too American in some ways but I don't honestly see how you could want to either go back or to limit the way things have changed.

 

Of course within that context theres nothing wrong with still being proudly English/British.

[The Fish 10965]

Oh aye and Stevie, if you only voted for the BNP to protest against the major parties, why choose the BNP? surely the other smaller parties have policies that you agree with, but come with the added bonus of not being a vote for racists?

[JonGoodwyn 1]

The fact that over 6% of people who vote are stupid enough to go with the BNP is far more depressing than the the darkies coming in and "stealing" "our" jobs, "ruining" the economy and "enforcing their opinions on us".

[The Fish 10965]

On the racism scale, the BNP are sufficiently out there for me to feel utterly comfortable calling them bigoted racists. Some old bird crossing the street because she's intimidated by three young black men, I wouldn't hold in the same contempt.

[JonGoodwyn 1]

Even if you were a massive racist you'd be an idiot if you voted for the BNP. Their stupid policies aren't just stupid because they're racist

[Guest Stevie]

The point that keeps niggling away and the lefties keep ignoring, is that there is a scale to racism. The vast majority of people living in this country have some degree of racism. That does not mean they want to send every foreigner packing.

 

The lefties can only see Nazi Racists who want to were bed sheets and carry flamimg torches.

 

I would love to see the debate move onto exploring the racist scale, but even on an internet forum we can get into trouble for trying to debate such as issue.

 

No wonder we are fucked.

Great post, great post.

[The Fish 10965]

I don't think that's true at all. I think people are turning away from the major parties because of sleaze, expenses, failed promises and the economy, and to the BNP because they're buying into their sensationalist propaganda.

[Ketsbaia 0]

On the racism scale, the BNP are sufficiently out there for me to feel utterly comfortable calling them bigoted racists. Some old bird crossing the street because she's intimidated by three young black men, I wouldn't hold in the same contempt.

 

 

Yes, but this all leads to the point of why more and more people are voting BNP.

 

Its because the majority of the country are racist to some degree and im talking just as much black to white as white to black.

 

There's nothing like overstating the growth of the BNP. Fact of the matter is their success is due to the low turn out rather than any groundswell of support.

 

You're right that alot of people within this country have certain prejudices but that doesn't instantly mean they're all BNP voters in waiting.

[AgentAxeman 189]

Of course I find some of their original policies deplorable, humane repatriation will never work, if they got in it would be a machine job outside their shops and forced on to vans down to Dover, but having said that do have good policies. Not least banning yank telly from our screens, their EU policy and limited coverage of all foreign sports. UKIP are the way forward and at 17% of the vote from 0% 10 years ago, we finally have hope that things will get better in terms of immigration.

 

The US telly one is a scream for starters - it comes from their underlying notion that "British" is perfect for everything and if we just remove all the outside influences, all our problems would magically disappear - its beyond stupid.

 

As for the EU as I've said until the BNP or the UKIP can actually explain how the economy would work without it, leaving is a non-starter.

 

How anyone can believe the crap UKIP spout is beyond me. Look at who they are ffs, they are basically the extreme right wing loony fringe of mainstream politics, extories with views that were too unpalatable for the tory party. White middle class little Englanders who are utterly corrupt and do not stand for anything positive.

 

As for the BNP, it's ironic, but rather than feel any sense of nationalistic pride in them it make me feel ashamed that nearly one million British people would like us to live in a fascist state. There's simply no excuse for using BNP as a protest vote either, none whatsoever.

 

 

whats wrong with being white, middle class and from england?? ffs you've just killed yer own argument by saying something racist.

i reckon you must have got this straight from the pen of Polly Toynbee, that well known, well balanced socialist who believes everyone should be equal as long as theres still champange and caviar for her and her mates.

whilst i agree that everyone should have they're say all your doing is exactly what you accuse the "far right" of doing which is belittling and criticising everyone who doesnt share your world view.

 

grow up man ffs. you should be more intelligent than to believe the propaganda the far left mainstream media feeds you.

 

'Far left mainstream media' - what a load of bollocks.

 

There's nothing wrong with being white and middle class or from England. What I have a problem with is people who are Little Englanders in the 21st century, which is what I stated if you bothered to read what I said. Narrow-minded xenophobes who want us out of Europe whatever the consequences, the same people who have some bizarre idea that they, historically the most priveleged in our society, are somehow victimised and 'aren't allowed to be proud of being English'. The leadership of UKIP and their policies are pathetic - IN MY OPINION. Now, how is any of that in any way racist, please explain?

 

Anyway, UKIP are essentially a one issue party that get some attention every 4 years come European election time. They'll fade into the background now for another 4 years, quite happily and quietly pocketing the maximum of their expenses while doing nothing of any value in the meantime. They're parasites at the end of the day, I'm glad our region isn't represented by them. How anyone thinks they could benefit the North East I don't know.

 

 

good point about ukip.

mind you i'm also struggling to figure out how the eu actually helps the north east??

 

oh and you did state "white, middle class little englanders"

its a bit specific...

 

 

but i take your point

 

For two reasons. First, being in the EU is vital for trade, from which the whole country benefits. But secondly, the EU has a policy of developing underprivileged areas of the Union, of which we are certainly one.

Regarding the media, they absolutely love reporting on the negative aspects of being in the EU (including made up ones) but rarely touch on the benefits, which objectively outweigh the drawbacks; that's why the EU has so many members and why other countries are desperate to join (and why none of the mainstream parties seriously want to leave the EU). It's partly against this backdrop, as well as the failure of the EU to positively promote itself, that we have a rise in euroskepticism amongst the public.

 

I know a bloke who likes nothing better than to complain about England, ranging from the state of the roads, the behaviour of children, and the usual PC gone mad Daily Mail stuff. He holidays regularly in France, and loves it, constantly saying how much better things are over there. And what does he vote? UKIP. I'm sorry, I just don't get this type of mentality, it all strikes me as odd and depressing.

 

 

sorry man, but yer mad if you think that. theres countrys outside the eu which trade with the eu on better terms than the uk. also the countrys desperate to join are pretty much ex easten bloc types (not all) or countrys without wealth. this will overall have a levelling effect on every country in as i call it "the new soviet bloc" or eu to those too young to remember it. and depite tony and gordons best efforts the uk is still one of the wealthiest in the eu. ergo, make gets taken from us (about 35-40billion a year) and we get nowt back. we used to get a rebate of something like 6billion but this was negotiated away by tony fuckin blair and his government. so im sorry if yer maths aint up to much (maybe modern day teaching methods perhaps???) but i still cant see any advantages to eu membership. its all about power to the elite if you ask me!!

[NJS 4411]

I'd accept that there is a level of casual racism in this country (and in all others) - I just think the nastier side of it is like homophobia and religious adherence - in general a generational hangover which will reduce as people of previous eras die.

 

I know this is a generalisation but I'll bet if everyone thinks of their parents/grandparents attitudes, no matter how good people they were, they would have exhibited some of these attitudes.

 

Maybe they were less shy in speaking about it but I honestly think that if Love thy neighbour and Mind your language were shown now, people would be genuinely astonished that they were considered comedies and wouldn't be thinking "wow this is funny".

 

Of course there are still people who would like them and would revel in saying so while crying about political correctness but finding people being called "nignogs" funny is a step too far. If the argument is that this is "okay" as it harms nobody I'd disagree.

 

As a lefty I don't think I'm naive or politically correct - I've already said in this thread how I'd limit immigration and I have no problem stating that the level of crime in black areas of London is fucking disgraceful and the cultural aspects of that should be addressed - but that doesn't mean I'd support any of the BNP's shite.

[NJS 4411]

sorry man, but yer mad if you think that. theres countrys outside the eu which trade with the eu on better terms than the uk. also the countrys desperate to join are pretty much ex easten bloc types (not all) or countrys without wealth. this will overall have a levelling effect on every country in as i call it "the new soviet bloc" or eu to those too young to remember it. and depite tony and gordons best efforts the uk is still one of the wealthiest in the eu. ergo, make gets taken from us (about 35-40billion a year) and we get nowt back. we used to get a rebate of something like 6billion but this was negotiated away by tony fuckin blair and his government. so im sorry if yer maths aint up to much (maybe modern day teaching methods perhaps???) but i still cant see any advantages to eu membership. its all about power to the elite if you ask me!!

 

But how would you replace all the trade with EU countries that is dependent on EU tariffs etc?

 

The last thing I saw mentioned 11m jobs - of course a lot of trade would find a way around it but even a 25% loss would cost a lot more than £30bn.

 

 

"We get nowt back" shows immense naivity imo.

[Renton 22001]

Of course I find some of their original policies deplorable, humane repatriation will never work, if they got in it would be a machine job outside their shops and forced on to vans down to Dover, but having said that do have good policies. Not least banning yank telly from our screens, their EU policy and limited coverage of all foreign sports. UKIP are the way forward and at 17% of the vote from 0% 10 years ago, we finally have hope that things will get better in terms of immigration.

 

The US telly one is a scream for starters - it comes from their underlying notion that "British" is perfect for everything and if we just remove all the outside influences, all our problems would magically disappear - its beyond stupid.

 

As for the EU as I've said until the BNP or the UKIP can actually explain how the economy would work without it, leaving is a non-starter.

 

How anyone can believe the crap UKIP spout is beyond me. Look at who they are ffs, they are basically the extreme right wing loony fringe of mainstream politics, extories with views that were too unpalatable for the tory party. White middle class little Englanders who are utterly corrupt and do not stand for anything positive.

 

As for the BNP, it's ironic, but rather than feel any sense of nationalistic pride in them it make me feel ashamed that nearly one million British people would like us to live in a fascist state. There's simply no excuse for using BNP as a protest vote either, none whatsoever.

 

 

whats wrong with being white, middle class and from england?? ffs you've just killed yer own argument by saying something racist.

i reckon you must have got this straight from the pen of Polly Toynbee, that well known, well balanced socialist who believes everyone should be equal as long as theres still champange and caviar for her and her mates.

whilst i agree that everyone should have they're say all your doing is exactly what you accuse the "far right" of doing which is belittling and criticising everyone who doesnt share your world view.

 

grow up man ffs. you should be more intelligent than to believe the propaganda the far left mainstream media feeds you.

 

'Far left mainstream media' - what a load of bollocks.

 

There's nothing wrong with being white and middle class or from England. What I have a problem with is people who are Little Englanders in the 21st century, which is what I stated if you bothered to read what I said. Narrow-minded xenophobes who want us out of Europe whatever the consequences, the same people who have some bizarre idea that they, historically the most priveleged in our society, are somehow victimised and 'aren't allowed to be proud of being English'. The leadership of UKIP and their policies are pathetic - IN MY OPINION. Now, how is any of that in any way racist, please explain?

 

Anyway, UKIP are essentially a one issue party that get some attention every 4 years come European election time. They'll fade into the background now for another 4 years, quite happily and quietly pocketing the maximum of their expenses while doing nothing of any value in the meantime. They're parasites at the end of the day, I'm glad our region isn't represented by them. How anyone thinks they could benefit the North East I don't know.

 

 

good point about ukip.

mind you i'm also struggling to figure out how the eu actually helps the north east??

 

oh and you did state "white, middle class little englanders"

its a bit specific...

 

 

but i take your point

 

For two reasons. First, being in the EU is vital for trade, from which the whole country benefits. But secondly, the EU has a policy of developing underprivileged areas of the Union, of which we are certainly one.

Regarding the media, they absolutely love reporting on the negative aspects of being in the EU (including made up ones) but rarely touch on the benefits, which objectively outweigh the drawbacks; that's why the EU has so many members and why other countries are desperate to join (and why none of the mainstream parties seriously want to leave the EU). It's partly against this backdrop, as well as the failure of the EU to positively promote itself, that we have a rise in euroskepticism amongst the public.

 

I know a bloke who likes nothing better than to complain about England, ranging from the state of the roads, the behaviour of children, and the usual PC gone mad Daily Mail stuff. He holidays regularly in France, and loves it, constantly saying how much better things are over there. And what does he vote? UKIP. I'm sorry, I just don't get this type of mentality, it all strikes me as odd and depressing.

 

 

sorry man, but yer mad if you think that. theres countrys outside the eu which trade with the eu on better terms than the uk. also the countrys desperate to join are pretty much ex easten bloc types (not all) or countrys without wealth. this will overall have a levelling effect on every country in as i call it "the new soviet bloc" or eu to those too young to remember it. and depite tony and gordons best efforts the uk is still one of the wealthiest in the eu. ergo, make gets taken from us (about 35-40billion a year) and we get nowt back. we used to get a rebate of something like 6billion but this was negotiated away by tony fuckin blair and his government. so im sorry if yer maths aint up to much (maybe modern day teaching methods perhaps???) but i still cant see any advantages to eu membership. its all about power to the elite if you ask me!!

 

Well I can see neither are us are experts but we'll agree to disagree. That's me agreeing with New Labour, The Liberal Democrats, the Conservative party, and virtually the entire of Western Europe, and you agreeing with the likes of Norway, UKIP and the BNP.

[snakehips 0]

The BNP got fewer votes than they did in 2004. A party on the rise, or pure, abject, disillusionment with the state of the world resulting in fewer folk voting? I know what I think.

[AgentAxeman 189]

Of course I find some of their original policies deplorable, humane repatriation will never work, if they got in it would be a machine job outside their shops and forced on to vans down to Dover, but having said that do have good policies. Not least banning yank telly from our screens, their EU policy and limited coverage of all foreign sports. UKIP are the way forward and at 17% of the vote from 0% 10 years ago, we finally have hope that things will get better in terms of immigration.

 

The US telly one is a scream for starters - it comes from their underlying notion that "British" is perfect for everything and if we just remove all the outside influences, all our problems would magically disappear - its beyond stupid.

 

As for the EU as I've said until the BNP or the UKIP can actually explain how the economy would work without it, leaving is a non-starter.

 

How anyone can believe the crap UKIP spout is beyond me. Look at who they are ffs, they are basically the extreme right wing loony fringe of mainstream politics, extories with views that were too unpalatable for the tory party. White middle class little Englanders who are utterly corrupt and do not stand for anything positive.

 

As for the BNP, it's ironic, but rather than feel any sense of nationalistic pride in them it make me feel ashamed that nearly one million British people would like us to live in a fascist state. There's simply no excuse for using BNP as a protest vote either, none whatsoever.

 

 

whats wrong with being white, middle class and from england?? ffs you've just killed yer own argument by saying something racist.

i reckon you must have got this straight from the pen of Polly Toynbee, that well known, well balanced socialist who believes everyone should be equal as long as theres still champange and caviar for her and her mates.

whilst i agree that everyone should have they're say all your doing is exactly what you accuse the "far right" of doing which is belittling and criticising everyone who doesnt share your world view.

 

grow up man ffs. you should be more intelligent than to believe the propaganda the far left mainstream media feeds you.

 

'Far left mainstream media' - what a load of bollocks.

 

There's nothing wrong with being white and middle class or from England. What I have a problem with is people who are Little Englanders in the 21st century, which is what I stated if you bothered to read what I said. Narrow-minded xenophobes who want us out of Europe whatever the consequences, the same people who have some bizarre idea that they, historically the most priveleged in our society, are somehow victimised and 'aren't allowed to be proud of being English'. The leadership of UKIP and their policies are pathetic - IN MY OPINION. Now, how is any of that in any way racist, please explain?

 

Anyway, UKIP are essentially a one issue party that get some attention every 4 years come European election time. They'll fade into the background now for another 4 years, quite happily and quietly pocketing the maximum of their expenses while doing nothing of any value in the meantime. They're parasites at the end of the day, I'm glad our region isn't represented by them. How anyone thinks they could benefit the North East I don't know.

 

 

good point about ukip.

mind you i'm also struggling to figure out how the eu actually helps the north east??

 

oh and you did state "white, middle class little englanders"

its a bit specific...

 

 

but i take your point

 

For two reasons. First, being in the EU is vital for trade, from which the whole country benefits. But secondly, the EU has a policy of developing underprivileged areas of the Union, of which we are certainly one.

Regarding the media, they absolutely love reporting on the negative aspects of being in the EU (including made up ones) but rarely touch on the benefits, which objectively outweigh the drawbacks; that's why the EU has so many members and why other countries are desperate to join (and why none of the mainstream parties seriously want to leave the EU). It's partly against this backdrop, as well as the failure of the EU to positively promote itself, that we have a rise in euroskepticism amongst the public.

 

I know a bloke who likes nothing better than to complain about England, ranging from the state of the roads, the behaviour of children, and the usual PC gone mad Daily Mail stuff. He holidays regularly in France, and loves it, constantly saying how much better things are over there. And what does he vote? UKIP. I'm sorry, I just don't get this type of mentality, it all strikes me as odd and depressing.

 

 

sorry man, but yer mad if you think that. theres countrys outside the eu which trade with the eu on better terms than the uk. also the countrys desperate to join are pretty much ex easten bloc types (not all) or countrys without wealth. this will overall have a levelling effect on every country in as i call it "the new soviet bloc" or eu to those too young to remember it. and depite tony and gordons best efforts the uk is still one of the wealthiest in the eu. ergo, make gets taken from us (about 35-40billion a year) and we get nowt back. we used to get a rebate of something like 6billion but this was negotiated away by tony fuckin blair and his government. so im sorry if yer maths aint up to much (maybe modern day teaching methods perhaps???) but i still cant see any advantages to eu membership. its all about power to the elite if you ask me!!

 

Well I can see neither are us are experts but we'll agree to disagree. That's me agreeing with New Labour, The Liberal Democrats, the Conservative party, and virtually the entire of Western Europe, and you agreeing with the likes of Norway, UKIP and the BNP.

 

 

ok mate, agree to that!!

[AgentAxeman 189]

sorry man, but yer mad if you think that. theres countrys outside the eu which trade with the eu on better terms than the uk. also the countrys desperate to join are pretty much ex easten bloc types (not all) or countrys without wealth. this will overall have a levelling effect on every country in as i call it "the new soviet bloc" or eu to those too young to remember it. and depite tony and gordons best efforts the uk is still one of the wealthiest in the eu. ergo, make gets taken from us (about 35-40billion a year) and we get nowt back. we used to get a rebate of something like 6billion but this was negotiated away by tony fuckin blair and his government. so im sorry if yer maths aint up to much (maybe modern day teaching methods perhaps???) but i still cant see any advantages to eu membership. its all about power to the elite if you ask me!!

 

But how would you replace all the trade with EU countries that is dependent on EU tariffs etc?

 

The last thing I saw mentioned 11m jobs - of course a lot of trade would find a way around it but even a 25% loss would cost a lot more than £30bn.

 

 

"We get nowt back" shows immense naivity imo.

 

 

whoa big lad, havent i just said that countrys outside the eu deal with the eu on better terms?? which means if we could negotiate a decent deal (fat chance of that maybe) we would then be dealing on better terms than the tariff now imposed on us!!

 

as alexander the meerkat says "Simples!"

 

ok i know its not quite that simple but however you put it i still cant see many (if any) advantages (monetary or otherwise) to membership of the eu!

 

please explain if i'm missing something

[NJS 4411]

whoa big lad, havent i just said that countrys outside the eu deal with the eu on better terms?? which means if we could negotiate a decent deal (fat chance of that maybe) we would then be dealing on better terms than the tariff now imposed on us!!

 

as alexander the meerkat says "Simples!"

 

ok i know its not quite that simple but however you put it i still cant see many (if any) advantages (monetary or otherwise) to membership of the eu!

 

please explain if i'm missing something

 

Well presumably if you mean outside countries get higher prices for their goods then the converse is that they would pay more for their imports?

 

On a bigger picture I agree with someone else who said if you look at the economies of the US, India and China, the only way to be in the same ball park (sorry Stevie) is to be in an entity as large as the EU. I think an "independent" UK would be marginalised in world terms - better to be at the sentre of Europe than outside pissing in.

[Guest Stevie]

whoa big lad, havent i just said that countrys outside the eu deal with the eu on better terms?? which means if we could negotiate a decent deal (fat chance of that maybe) we would then be dealing on better terms than the tariff now imposed on us!!

 

as alexander the meerkat says "Simples!"

 

ok i know its not quite that simple but however you put it i still cant see many (if any) advantages (monetary or otherwise) to membership of the eu!

 

please explain if i'm missing something

 

Well presumably if you mean outside countries get higher prices for their goods then the converse is that they would pay more for their imports?

 

On a bigger picture I agree with someone else who said if you look at the economies of the US, India and China, the only way to be in the same ball park (sorry Stevie) is to be in an entity as large as the EU. I think an "independent" UK would be marginalised in world terms - better to be at the sentre of Europe than outside pissing in.

Aye Korea, Japan, ROC, and Canada are on the bones of their arse aren't they? For an island of this size to be economically number 5 in the world is incredible. Being a smaller cog in a bigger wheel would not necessarily work for us, and you can't definitely say it would.

[AgentAxeman 189]

whoa big lad, havent i just said that countrys outside the eu deal with the eu on better terms?? which means if we could negotiate a decent deal (fat chance of that maybe) we would then be dealing on better terms than the tariff now imposed on us!!

 

as alexander the meerkat says "Simples!"

 

ok i know its not quite that simple but however you put it i still cant see many (if any) advantages (monetary or otherwise) to membership of the eu!

 

please explain if i'm missing something

 

Well presumably if you mean outside countries get higher prices for their goods then the converse is that they would pay more for their imports?

 

On a bigger picture I agree with someone else who said if you look at the economies of the US, India and China, the only way to be in the same ball park (sorry Stevie) is to be in an entity as large as the EU. I think an "independent" UK would be marginalised in world terms - better to be at the sentre of Europe than outside pissing in.

Aye Korea, Japan, ROC, and Canada are on the bones of their arse aren't they? For an island of this size to be economically number 5 in the world is incredible. Being a smaller cog in a bigger wheel would not necessarily work for us, and you can't definitely say it would.

 

 

centre of europe???? you must be joking. the eu is ran by Germany then France then the Uk is trailing in 3rd. better part of an entity the size of the Eu??? small and agile is the way to go my friend. nothing changes in the eu for years bcos its not the populace who drive it. quite the opposite tbf!! they (faceless beaurocrats) drive us. eu elections are only a semblance of democracy. no matter who gets in they are still answerable to the eu. all this bullsh*t about "red lines" told by Phoney Blair and his ilk is simply empty rhetoric designed to make them look like big butch men. only way this could possibly change is if we left the eu.

 

 

Rant over!!