Wages are the core of our demise.

[Flair 0]

Apparently Shearer has been told to slash 30million of the wage bill.

 

Owen out-- 24.8 to go

 

The newspapers are on the wind-up if they think we are going to do a 'leeds'. We clearly are in a much better position and getting rid of such a high wage bill seems to be straight forwardish. For one, Viduka and Owen are up so that is about 10million gone straight away.

 

So is Cacapa and Gonzalez so we are already down about 15million.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Attain

[Tom 14000]

We are in a completely different situation from Leeds. People seem to forget what happened to Leeds. They had a lot of debt and relied on qualifying for the Champions League and they didn't actually own some of the players they had on contracts, so they owed money but didn't have assets. (I still don't know how that works)

[Flair 0]

We are in a completely different situation from Leeds. People seem to forget what happened to Leeds. They had a lot of debt and relied on qualifying for the Champions League and they didn't actually own some of the players they had on contracts, so they owed money but didn't have assets. (I still don't know how that works)

 

Exactly, I may have not come across in the right way.

[Tom 14000]

Apparently Shearer has been told to slash 30million of the wage bill.

 

Owen out-- 24.8 to go

 

The newspapers are on the wind-up if they think we are going to do a 'leeds'. We clearly are in a much better position and getting rid of such a high wage bill seems to be straight forwardish. For one, Viduka and Owen are up so that is about 10million gone straight away.

 

So is Cacapa and Gonzalez so we are already down about 15million.

 

There is no way Cacapa and Gonzalez are actually on those wages man.

 

Plus we will have only paid a % of Gonzalez's wages and he will be back at Valencia now.

[Kitman 2204]

Nicos the cycle is bigger than that IMO. There seems to be an underlying disadvantage we have which we didn't have under KK 2, then it was cause we did buy some good players and basically outspent the competition, which we can no longer do. I don't think as Leazes does it just comes down to getting a good manager, the problem is bigger and more underlying...Whether it's location or lack of success it has been with us for a while.

 

The mind boggles that we couldn't compete with the likes of Fulham and Wigan.

 

It helps to have a manager you don't have to sack after they've blown your wad on their shite players. We've ripped it up and started again half a dozen times since the stability of SBR

[Fop 1]

"The club's future is almost entirely dependent on how much Ashley is willing to gamble on an early return to the Premier League. Persuading Alan Shearer to stay on will buy Ashley time with the supporters, but the manager will want assurances that he will be able to revamp a playing squad who were paid more than £70 million last year.

With around 12 of the 33 first-team players earning more than £50,000 per week, a fire-sale to cut costs is inevitable. Michael Owen and Mark Viduka will be first out of the door, taking £180,000 per week off the wage bill."

 

 

It is clear with the humungous wage bill (without Euro footy) Ashley and co. found it difficult to be proactive regarding the playing side and had to be ultra conservative. Historically we have been paying over the odds for average players, which for me is partly to do with bad scouting and bad general management inc reckless managers such as Souness. The DOF system doesn't really work in England and if AS stays he wants sole control...The question is what things need to be put in place to stop a repeat of this fiasco that has IMO had a massive hand in sinking us?

 

 

The problem is that it's easy to see how we got there.

 

The magic act would be attracting good players to NUFC without paying at least slightly OTT wages.... although some of our acquisitions over the last 2-3 season have been shocking, players on wage.

 

 

We're not going to have to worry about attracting those sort of players any time soon though, but it's utterly scary how bad things could still get in the Championship off loading them (administration is still an option if Ashley is losing enough week on week and from there is pure ).

[Park Life 71]

We are in a completely different situation from Leeds. People seem to forget what happened to Leeds. They had a lot of debt and relied on qualifying for the Champions League and they didn't actually own some of the players they had on contracts, so they owed money but didn't have assets. (I still don't know how that works)

 

The players were owned by a holding company and were leased by the club. Cheaper in the short term, however they never become assets as you say.

 

Leeds were actually a fairly well run club till Risdale went mad.

 

Should there actually be more rules on how clubs are run??

[Flair 0]

Apparently Shearer has been told to slash 30million of the wage bill.

 

Owen out-- 24.8 to go

 

The newspapers are on the wind-up if they think we are going to do a 'leeds'. We clearly are in a much better position and getting rid of such a high wage bill seems to be straight forwardish. For one, Viduka and Owen are up so that is about 10million gone straight away.

 

So is Cacapa and Gonzalez so we are already down about 15million.

 

There is no way Cacapa and Gonzalez are actually on those wages man.

 

Plus we will have only paid a % of Gonzalez's wages and he will be back at Valencia now.

 

Just pointing it out by those so called figures. Similarly, Lovenkrands is up so that 5 of the players in our shiet team gone already.

[Park Life 71]

Nicos the cycle is bigger than that IMO. There seems to be an underlying disadvantage we have which we didn't have under KK 2, then it was cause we did buy some good players and basically outspent the competition, which we can no longer do. I don't think as Leazes does it just comes down to getting a good manager, the problem is bigger and more underlying...Whether it's location or lack of success it has been with us for a while.

 

The mind boggles that we couldn't compete with the likes of Fulham and Wigan.

 

It helps to have a manager you don't have to sack after they've blown your wad on their shite players. We've ripped it up and started again half a dozen times since the stability of SBR

 

Of course by default that is a case for a DOF.

[Kitman 2204]

Nicos the cycle is bigger than that IMO. There seems to be an underlying disadvantage we have which we didn't have under KK 2, then it was cause we did buy some good players and basically outspent the competition, which we can no longer do. I don't think as Leazes does it just comes down to getting a good manager, the problem is bigger and more underlying...Whether it's location or lack of success it has been with us for a while.

 

The mind boggles that we couldn't compete with the likes of Fulham and Wigan.

 

It helps to have a manager you don't have to sack after they've blown your wad on their shite players. We've ripped it up and started again half a dozen times since the stability of SBR

 

Of course by default that is a case for a DOF.

 

Or not fucking up in appointing a manager. Again and again and again.

[Park Life 71]

"The club's future is almost entirely dependent on how much Ashley is willing to gamble on an early return to the Premier League. Persuading Alan Shearer to stay on will buy Ashley time with the supporters, but the manager will want assurances that he will be able to revamp a playing squad who were paid more than £70 million last year.

With around 12 of the 33 first-team players earning more than £50,000 per week, a fire-sale to cut costs is inevitable. Michael Owen and Mark Viduka will be first out of the door, taking £180,000 per week off the wage bill."

 

 

It is clear with the humungous wage bill (without Euro footy) Ashley and co. found it difficult to be proactive regarding the playing side and had to be ultra conservative. Historically we have been paying over the odds for average players, which for me is partly to do with bad scouting and bad general management inc reckless managers such as Souness. The DOF system doesn't really work in England and if AS stays he wants sole control...The question is what things need to be put in place to stop a repeat of this fiasco that has IMO had a massive hand in sinking us?

 

 

The problem is that it's easy to see how we got there.

 

The magic act would be attracting good players to NUFC without paying at least slightly OTT wages.... although some of our acquisitions over the last 2-3 season have been shocking, players on wage.

 

 

We're not going to have to worry about attracting those sort of players any time soon though, but it's utterly scary how bad things could still get in the Championship off loading them (administration is still an option if Ashley is losing enough week on week and from there is pure ).

 

 

My gut feeling is that we have never had continuity or any kind of bluprint or structure (no boot room) no alliances with Euro clubs with regard to scouting etc...The underlying issues are huge. Over the last decade people in power have just been lazy.

[Guest alex]

How has Enrique been shit btw? Which the above suggests. Whereas Ryan Taylor, Shola and Nicky Butt are worth hanging on to?

 

Look at the bulk buying of say a Liverpool, half of whom never make it. 62 man sqad.

 

I don't bother taking seriously individual bad buys, the nature of the beast is that generally you get one goodun in 3/4. Again this takes money and intelligence and even then the one goodun might get inj or leave.

Not sure why you quoted my post there

[Park Life 71]

How has Enrique been shit btw? Which the above suggests. Whereas Ryan Taylor, Shola and Nicky Butt are worth hanging on to?

 

Look at the bulk buying of say a Liverpool, half of whom never make it. 62 man sqad.

 

I don't bother taking seriously individual bad buys, the nature of the beast is that generally you get one goodun in 3/4. Again this takes money and intelligence and even then the one goodun might get inj or leave.

Not sure why you quoted my post there

 

 

Just saying fretting over individual buys is pointless when the club has had little of no gameplan or good governance for so long.

[Tom 14000]

Apparently Shearer has been told to slash 30million of the wage bill.

 

Owen out-- 24.8 to go

 

The newspapers are on the wind-up if they think we are going to do a 'leeds'. We clearly are in a much better position and getting rid of such a high wage bill seems to be straight forwardish. For one, Viduka and Owen are up so that is about 10million gone straight away.

 

So is Cacapa and Gonzalez so we are already down about 15million.

 

There is no way Cacapa and Gonzalez are actually on those wages man.

 

Plus we will have only paid a % of Gonzalez's wages and he will be back at Valencia now.

 

Just pointing it out by those so called figures. Similarly, Lovenkrands is up so that 5 of the players in our shiet team gone already.

 

Yeah a few on large wages will be away and the rest can be renegotiated.

 

Geremi, Martins, Owen, Viduka, Barton (probably), Collocini, will all be on their way for a start.

 

That's already a lot of the bill.

[Happy Face 29]

Nicos the cycle is bigger than that IMO. There seems to be an underlying disadvantage we have which we didn't have under KK 2, then it was cause we did buy some good players and basically outspent the competition, which we can no longer do. I don't think as Leazes does it just comes down to getting a good manager, the problem is bigger and more underlying...Whether it's location or lack of success it has been with us for a while.

 

The mind boggles that we couldn't compete with the likes of Fulham and Wigan.

 

It helps to have a manager you don't have to sack after they've blown your wad on their shite players. We've ripped it up and started again half a dozen times since the stability of SBR

 

Of course by default that is a case for a DOF.

 

More the case for a chairman with a clue imo.

[Fop 1]

Nicos the cycle is bigger than that IMO. There seems to be an underlying disadvantage we have which we didn't have under KK 2, then it was cause we did buy some good players and basically outspent the competition, which we can no longer do. I don't think as Leazes does it just comes down to getting a good manager, the problem is bigger and more underlying...Whether it's location or lack of success it has been with us for a while.

 

The mind boggles that we couldn't compete with the likes of Fulham and Wigan.

 

It helps to have a manager you don't have to sack after they've blown your wad on their shite players. We've ripped it up and started again half a dozen times since the stability of SBR

 

Aye we wouldn't have been relegated with a decent manager that was actually in charge (and not being undermined by Wise et al) that had a bit to spend (or at least could spend what he sold) this season.

 

We'd still have been in the danger zone with wages, but with a non-relegation Premiership finish we should have been able to move on.

 

We're always going to have to pay more because we're not in London (or near it) and not Manchester Utd or Liverpool, but the trick is not paying loads for rubbish (which is what we've become - a place that pays well for other peoples out of date crap).

 

Although again presently the issue is going to be surviving the wage bill in the Championship, until that's sorted little else matters.

[Park Life 71]

Nicos the cycle is bigger than that IMO. There seems to be an underlying disadvantage we have which we didn't have under KK 2, then it was cause we did buy some good players and basically outspent the competition, which we can no longer do. I don't think as Leazes does it just comes down to getting a good manager, the problem is bigger and more underlying...Whether it's location or lack of success it has been with us for a while.

 

The mind boggles that we couldn't compete with the likes of Fulham and Wigan.

 

It helps to have a manager you don't have to sack after they've blown your wad on their shite players. We've ripped it up and started again half a dozen times since the stability of SBR

 

Of course by default that is a case for a DOF.

 

Or not fucking up in appointing a manager. Again and again and again.

 

 

Again, even with a goodish manager and had we still been in the PL we were probably about 8th choice for a player in this league and about 30th choice for a player if clubs of similar standing in Euro are taken into account.

[Flair 0]

Apparently Shearer has been told to slash 30million of the wage bill.

 

Owen out-- 24.8 to go

 

The newspapers are on the wind-up if they think we are going to do a 'leeds'. We clearly are in a much better position and getting rid of such a high wage bill seems to be straight forwardish. For one, Viduka and Owen are up so that is about 10million gone straight away.

 

So is Cacapa and Gonzalez so we are already down about 15million.

 

There is no way Cacapa and Gonzalez are actually on those wages man.

 

Plus we will have only paid a % of Gonzalez's wages and he will be back at Valencia now.

 

Just pointing it out by those so called figures. Similarly, Lovenkrands is up so that 5 of the players in our shiet team gone already.

 

Yeah a few on large wages will be away and the rest can be renegotiated.

 

Geremi, Martins, Owen, Viduka, Barton (probably), Collocini, will all be on their way for a start.

 

That's already a lot of the bill.

 

Administration isn't going to happen.

[Guest alex]

How has Enrique been shit btw? Which the above suggests. Whereas Ryan Taylor, Shola and Nicky Butt are worth hanging on to?

 

Look at the bulk buying of say a Liverpool, half of whom never make it. 62 man sqad.

 

I don't bother taking seriously individual bad buys, the nature of the beast is that generally you get one goodun in 3/4. Again this takes money and intelligence and even then the one goodun might get inj or leave.

Not sure why you quoted my post there

 

 

Just saying fretting over individual buys is pointless when the club has had little of no gameplan or good governance for so long.

It was a comment on the piece, i.e. the judgement on Enrique (who is clearly a good full-back) which implied he was hopeless. Thought that was obvious like.

Edited May 26, 2009 by alex

[Park Life 71]

Nicos the cycle is bigger than that IMO. There seems to be an underlying disadvantage we have which we didn't have under KK 2, then it was cause we did buy some good players and basically outspent the competition, which we can no longer do. I don't think as Leazes does it just comes down to getting a good manager, the problem is bigger and more underlying...Whether it's location or lack of success it has been with us for a while.

 

The mind boggles that we couldn't compete with the likes of Fulham and Wigan.

 

It helps to have a manager you don't have to sack after they've blown your wad on their shite players. We've ripped it up and started again half a dozen times since the stability of SBR

 

Aye we wouldn't have been relegated with a decent manager that was actually in charge (and not being undermined by Wise et al) that had a bit to spend (or at least could spend what he sold) this season.

 

We'd still have been in the danger zone with wages, but with a non-relegation Premiership finish we should have been able to move on.

 

We're always going to have to pay more because we're not in London (or near it) and not Manchester Utd or Liverpool, but the trick is not paying loads for rubbish (which is what we've become - a place that pays well for other peoples out of date crap).

Although again presently the issue is going to be surviving the wage bill in the Championship, until that's sorted little else matters.

 

 

But this has been endemic and not the fault of one or other regime is my point.

[Guest alex]

Nicos the cycle is bigger than that IMO. There seems to be an underlying disadvantage we have which we didn't have under KK 2, then it was cause we did buy some good players and basically outspent the competition, which we can no longer do. I don't think as Leazes does it just comes down to getting a good manager, the problem is bigger and more underlying...Whether it's location or lack of success it has been with us for a while.

 

The mind boggles that we couldn't compete with the likes of Fulham and Wigan.

 

It helps to have a manager you don't have to sack after they've blown your wad on their shite players. We've ripped it up and started again half a dozen times since the stability of SBR

 

Aye we wouldn't have been relegated with a decent manager that was actually in charge (and not being undermined by Wise et al) that had a bit to spend (or at least could spend what he sold) this season.

 

We'd still have been in the danger zone with wages, but with a non-relegation Premiership finish we should have been able to move on.

 

We're always going to have to pay more because we're not in London (or near it) and not Manchester Utd or Liverpool, but the trick is not paying loads for rubbish (which is what we've become - a place that pays well for other peoples out of date crap).

Although again presently the issue is going to be surviving the wage bill in the Championship, until that's sorted little else matters.

 

 

But this has been endemic and not the fault of one or other regime is my point.

Rubbish. It's the fault of both Shepherd/the Halls and the current regime.

[Fop 1]

My gut feeling is that we have never had continuity or any kind of bluprint or structure (no boot room) no alliances with Euro clubs with regard to scouting etc...The underlying issues are huge. Over the last decade people in power have just been lazy.

 

In all honesty maybe we didn't need it with the likes of Keegan, Daglish and Robson, they probably were scouting networks on their own to a degree.

 

But the lack of youth development (local and imported) and scouting is plain ridiculous (it's not like Fergy or Wenger is personally searching out young players he likes the look of).

 

And stability.... how much different would things be looking now in just that context if Keegan had stayed.

 

 

 

 

Which is the one good thing at the moment if the Shearer rumours are true, 4 year contract. Of course that assumes he isn't sacked (or isn't just rubbish).

[Park Life 71]

Nicos the cycle is bigger than that IMO. There seems to be an underlying disadvantage we have which we didn't have under KK 2, then it was cause we did buy some good players and basically outspent the competition, which we can no longer do. I don't think as Leazes does it just comes down to getting a good manager, the problem is bigger and more underlying...Whether it's location or lack of success it has been with us for a while.

 

The mind boggles that we couldn't compete with the likes of Fulham and Wigan.

 

It helps to have a manager you don't have to sack after they've blown your wad on their shite players. We've ripped it up and started again half a dozen times since the stability of SBR

 

Aye we wouldn't have been relegated with a decent manager that was actually in charge (and not being undermined by Wise et al) that had a bit to spend (or at least could spend what he sold) this season.

 

We'd still have been in the danger zone with wages, but with a non-relegation Premiership finish we should have been able to move on.

 

We're always going to have to pay more because we're not in London (or near it) and not Manchester Utd or Liverpool, but the trick is not paying loads for rubbish (which is what we've become - a place that pays well for other peoples out of date crap).

Although again presently the issue is going to be surviving the wage bill in the Championship, until that's sorted little else matters.

 

 

But this has been endemic and not the fault of one or other regime is my point.

Rubbish. It's the fault of both Shepherd/the Halls and the current regime.

 

Enedemic in the sense there is no easy way round it.

[Guest alex]

Nicos the cycle is bigger than that IMO. There seems to be an underlying disadvantage we have which we didn't have under KK 2, then it was cause we did buy some good players and basically outspent the competition, which we can no longer do. I don't think as Leazes does it just comes down to getting a good manager, the problem is bigger and more underlying...Whether it's location or lack of success it has been with us for a while.

 

The mind boggles that we couldn't compete with the likes of Fulham and Wigan.

 

It helps to have a manager you don't have to sack after they've blown your wad on their shite players. We've ripped it up and started again half a dozen times since the stability of SBR

 

Aye we wouldn't have been relegated with a decent manager that was actually in charge (and not being undermined by Wise et al) that had a bit to spend (or at least could spend what he sold) this season.

 

We'd still have been in the danger zone with wages, but with a non-relegation Premiership finish we should have been able to move on.

 

We're always going to have to pay more because we're not in London (or near it) and not Manchester Utd or Liverpool, but the trick is not paying loads for rubbish (which is what we've become - a place that pays well for other peoples out of date crap).

Although again presently the issue is going to be surviving the wage bill in the Championship, until that's sorted little else matters.

 

 

But this has been endemic and not the fault of one or other regime is my point.

Rubbish. It's the fault of both Shepherd/the Halls and the current regime.

 

Enedemic in the sense there is no easy way round it.

That's different to saying people aren't to blame.

[Kitman 2204]

Nicos the cycle is bigger than that IMO. There seems to be an underlying disadvantage we have which we didn't have under KK 2, then it was cause we did buy some good players and basically outspent the competition, which we can no longer do. I don't think as Leazes does it just comes down to getting a good manager, the problem is bigger and more underlying...Whether it's location or lack of success it has been with us for a while.

 

The mind boggles that we couldn't compete with the likes of Fulham and Wigan.

 

It helps to have a manager you don't have to sack after they've blown your wad on their shite players. We've ripped it up and started again half a dozen times since the stability of SBR

 

Of course by default that is a case for a DOF.

 

Or not fucking up in appointing a manager. Again and again and again.

 

 

Again, even with a goodish manager and had we still been in the PL we were probably about 8th choice for a player in this league and about 30th choice for a player if clubs of similar standing in Euro are taken into account.

 

Yes, but Rome wasn't built in a day. Unless you're Chelsea. What's wrong with stability and steady improvement?