Wages are the core of our demise.

[Park Life 71]

"The club's future is almost entirely dependent on how much Ashley is willing to gamble on an early return to the Premier League. Persuading Alan Shearer to stay on will buy Ashley time with the supporters, but the manager will want assurances that he will be able to revamp a playing squad who were paid more than £70 million last year.

With around 12 of the 33 first-team players earning more than £50,000 per week, a fire-sale to cut costs is inevitable. Michael Owen and Mark Viduka will be first out of the door, taking £180,000 per week off the wage bill."

 

 

It is clear with the humungous wage bill (without Euro footy) Ashley and co. found it difficult to be proactive regarding the playing side and had to be ultra conservative. Historically we have been paying over the odds for average players, which for me is partly to do with bad scouting and bad general management inc reckless managers such as Souness. The DOF system doesn't really work in England and if AS stays he wants sole control...The question is what things need to be put in place to stop a repeat of this fiasco that has IMO had a massive hand in sinking us?

[Park Life 71]

Shall I put Kill Ashley in the title?

[Isegrim 9741]

Doesn't excuse to get rid of the likes of Given who was actually value for money as well as N'Zogbia and Milner who I reckon were both on much more considerate terms than the likes of Barton, Smith and Viduka - all of them strangely signed by Ashley and his fellow yokels.

[Park Life 71]

Doesn't excuse to get rid of the likes of Given who was actually value for money as well as N'Zogbia and Milner who I reckon were both on much more considerate terms than the likes of Barton, Smith and Viduka - all of them strangely signed by Ashley and his fellow yokels.

 

Can't disagree with that. It's just that it's a recurring cycle with some clubs - take Boro, they went through a phase of high wages for little return not so long ago. We have habitually over compensated players to get them to sign, the only other route is to buy they younger, but then you need a scouting system that rivals Arsenal or Man U and again without the pulling power.

[Kitman 2204]

In many ways we're paying for the sins of the past because of transfer fees and wages wasted on average or over the hill players with no strings attached. However the trend's continued under Ashley with some crap players bought and presumably high wages too. And there was no excuse for the January transfer window.

[Isegrim 9741]

In many ways we're paying for the sins of the past because of transfer fees and wages wasted on average or over the hill players with no strings attached. However the trend's continued under Ashley with some crap players bought and presumably high wages too. And there was no excuse for the January transfer window.

There is no excuse for any of the transfer windows. Blaming the mismanagment of Fat Fred would be fair and well if they hadn't actually acted worse in regards to the first team.

[Park Life 71]

In many ways we're paying for the sins of the past because of transfer fees and wages wasted on average or over the hill players with no strings attached. However the trend's continued under Ashley with some crap players bought and presumably high wages too. And there was no excuse for the January transfer window.

 

We've been overpaying for a decade nowt to do with Ashley.

 

It is a bigger problem than just the failings of one particular regime.

[Kitman 2204]

In many ways we're paying for the sins of the past because of transfer fees and wages wasted on average or over the hill players with no strings attached. However the trend's continued under Ashley with some crap players bought and presumably high wages too. And there was no excuse for the January transfer window.

 

We've been overpaying for a decade nowt to do with Ashley.

 

It is a bigger problem than just the failings of one particular regime.

 

Oh I agree I'm just saying that the new regime has hardly addressed the problem. We've sold players in January presumably to fund the wage bill but as it turned out they were players we couldn't spare. They've brought in players like Barton, Cacapa, Nolan, Xisco, and R. Taylor presumably on high wages, players who like their predecessors aren't good enough. I think they were gambling on getting through to the summer in the premiership when they could start making serious in-roads in the wage bill by kissing off the likes of Owen and Viduka. Even if we'd stayed up I was expecting some surgery on the squad. Now it will presumably involve full scale amputation.

[Park Life 71]

In many ways we're paying for the sins of the past because of transfer fees and wages wasted on average or over the hill players with no strings attached. However the trend's continued under Ashley with some crap players bought and presumably high wages too. And there was no excuse for the January transfer window.

 

We've been overpaying for a decade nowt to do with Ashley.

 

It is a bigger problem than just the failings of one particular regime.

 

Oh I agree I'm just saying that the new regime has hardly addressed the problem. We've sold players in January presumably to fund the wage bill but as it turned out they were players we couldn't spare. They've brought in players like Barton, Cacapa, Nolan, Xisco, and R. Taylor presumably on high wages, players who like their predecessors aren't good enough. I think they were gambling on getting through to the summer in the premiership when they could start making serious in-roads in the wage bill by kissing off the likes of Owen and Viduka. Even if we'd stayed up I was expecting some surgery on the squad. Now it will presumably involve full scale amputation.

 

Yes, yes yes...

 

But there seems to be no easy ans to the greater problem ie How to get/attract good upcoming players and keep them without paying mad money.

[Kitman 2204]

I'd add that we've been living beyond our means for years, I think that's obvious. Part of that is trying to attract players to the club when we're not so attractive. This investment has not been repaid through success because we've chosen the wrong players/managers as it turns out.

[Kitman 2204]

In many ways we're paying for the sins of the past because of transfer fees and wages wasted on average or over the hill players with no strings attached. However the trend's continued under Ashley with some crap players bought and presumably high wages too. And there was no excuse for the January transfer window.

 

We've been overpaying for a decade nowt to do with Ashley.

 

It is a bigger problem than just the failings of one particular regime.

 

Oh I agree I'm just saying that the new regime has hardly addressed the problem. We've sold players in January presumably to fund the wage bill but as it turned out they were players we couldn't spare. They've brought in players like Barton, Cacapa, Nolan, Xisco, and R. Taylor presumably on high wages, players who like their predecessors aren't good enough. I think they were gambling on getting through to the summer in the premiership when they could start making serious in-roads in the wage bill by kissing off the likes of Owen and Viduka. Even if we'd stayed up I was expecting some surgery on the squad. Now it will presumably involve full scale amputation.

 

Yes, yes yes...

 

But there seems to be no easy ans to the greater problem ie How to get/attract good upcoming players and keep them without paying mad money.

 

Well that's the nature of the Prem. Certain people might call it ambition......

 

These days the players and their agents hold the whip hand in terms of wage demands. The strategy our club professes to prefer is the Arsenal model of buying lots of talent cheap and nurturing it. The only drawback is Arsenal have Arsene Wenger, we had Dennis Wise and er Joe Kinnear. Arsenal have a successful team, we have been shite for a long time. The answer is probably a blend of youth and experience, which is what Boro were trying to do, and got relegated. That might be cos they have a crap manager though.

[Happy Face 29]

In many ways we're paying for the sins of the past because of transfer fees and wages wasted on average or over the hill players with no strings attached. However the trend's continued under Ashley with some crap players bought and presumably high wages too. And there was no excuse for the January transfer window.

 

We've been overpaying for a decade nowt to do with Ashley.

 

It is a bigger problem than just the failings of one particular regime.

 

Oh I agree I'm just saying that the new regime has hardly addressed the problem. We've sold players in January presumably to fund the wage bill but as it turned out they were players we couldn't spare. They've brought in players like Barton, Cacapa, Nolan, Xisco, and R. Taylor presumably on high wages, players who like their predecessors aren't good enough. I think they were gambling on getting through to the summer in the premiership when they could start making serious in-roads in the wage bill by kissing off the likes of Owen and Viduka. Even if we'd stayed up I was expecting some surgery on the squad. Now it will presumably involve full scale amputation.

 

Yes, yes yes...

 

But there seems to be no easy ans to the greater problem ie How to get/attract good upcoming players and keep them without paying mad money.

 

The answer is you pay them mad money.

[Park Life 71]

In many ways we're paying for the sins of the past because of transfer fees and wages wasted on average or over the hill players with no strings attached. However the trend's continued under Ashley with some crap players bought and presumably high wages too. And there was no excuse for the January transfer window.

 

We've been overpaying for a decade nowt to do with Ashley.

 

It is a bigger problem than just the failings of one particular regime.

 

Oh I agree I'm just saying that the new regime has hardly addressed the problem. We've sold players in January presumably to fund the wage bill but as it turned out they were players we couldn't spare. They've brought in players like Barton, Cacapa, Nolan, Xisco, and R. Taylor presumably on high wages, players who like their predecessors aren't good enough. I think they were gambling on getting through to the summer in the premiership when they could start making serious in-roads in the wage bill by kissing off the likes of Owen and Viduka. Even if we'd stayed up I was expecting some surgery on the squad. Now it will presumably involve full scale amputation.

 

Yes, yes yes...

 

But there seems to be no easy ans to the greater problem ie How to get/attract good upcoming players and keep them without paying mad money.

 

The answer is you pay them mad money.

 

Then you have no room for maneuver when things go awry (inj/form etc) and get relegated.

[Happy Face 29]

In many ways we're paying for the sins of the past because of transfer fees and wages wasted on average or over the hill players with no strings attached. However the trend's continued under Ashley with some crap players bought and presumably high wages too. And there was no excuse for the January transfer window.

 

We've been overpaying for a decade nowt to do with Ashley.

 

It is a bigger problem than just the failings of one particular regime.

 

Oh I agree I'm just saying that the new regime has hardly addressed the problem. We've sold players in January presumably to fund the wage bill but as it turned out they were players we couldn't spare. They've brought in players like Barton, Cacapa, Nolan, Xisco, and R. Taylor presumably on high wages, players who like their predecessors aren't good enough. I think they were gambling on getting through to the summer in the premiership when they could start making serious in-roads in the wage bill by kissing off the likes of Owen and Viduka. Even if we'd stayed up I was expecting some surgery on the squad. Now it will presumably involve full scale amputation.

 

Yes, yes yes...

 

But there seems to be no easy ans to the greater problem ie How to get/attract good upcoming players and keep them without paying mad money.

 

The answer is you pay them mad money.

 

Then you have no room for maneuver when things go awry (inj/form etc) and get relegated.

 

Small time thinking.

 

Weren't you advocating a £150M spend as the only answer at the start of the season?

 

[Park Life 71]

In many ways we're paying for the sins of the past because of transfer fees and wages wasted on average or over the hill players with no strings attached. However the trend's continued under Ashley with some crap players bought and presumably high wages too. And there was no excuse for the January transfer window.

 

We've been overpaying for a decade nowt to do with Ashley.

 

It is a bigger problem than just the failings of one particular regime.

 

Oh I agree I'm just saying that the new regime has hardly addressed the problem. We've sold players in January presumably to fund the wage bill but as it turned out they were players we couldn't spare. They've brought in players like Barton, Cacapa, Nolan, Xisco, and R. Taylor presumably on high wages, players who like their predecessors aren't good enough. I think they were gambling on getting through to the summer in the premiership when they could start making serious in-roads in the wage bill by kissing off the likes of Owen and Viduka. Even if we'd stayed up I was expecting some surgery on the squad. Now it will presumably involve full scale amputation.

 

Yes, yes yes...

 

But there seems to be no easy ans to the greater problem ie How to get/attract good upcoming players and keep them without paying mad money.

 

The answer is you pay them mad money.

 

Then you have no room for maneuver when things go awry (inj/form etc) and get relegated.

 

Small time thinking.

 

Weren't you advocating a £150M spend as the only answer at the start of the season?

 

 

Which you poo pooed.

[ChezGiven 0]

In many ways we're paying for the sins of the past because of transfer fees and wages wasted on average or over the hill players with no strings attached. However the trend's continued under Ashley with some crap players bought and presumably high wages too. And there was no excuse for the January transfer window.

 

We've been overpaying for a decade nowt to do with Ashley.

 

It is a bigger problem than just the failings of one particular regime.

 

Oh I agree I'm just saying that the new regime has hardly addressed the problem. We've sold players in January presumably to fund the wage bill but as it turned out they were players we couldn't spare. They've brought in players like Barton, Cacapa, Nolan, Xisco, and R. Taylor presumably on high wages, players who like their predecessors aren't good enough. I think they were gambling on getting through to the summer in the premiership when they could start making serious in-roads in the wage bill by kissing off the likes of Owen and Viduka. Even if we'd stayed up I was expecting some surgery on the squad. Now it will presumably involve full scale amputation.

 

Yes, yes yes...

 

But there seems to be no easy ans to the greater problem ie How to get/attract good upcoming players and keep them without paying mad money.

 

The answer is you pay them mad money.

 

Then you have no room for maneuver when things go awry (inj/form etc) and get relegated.

 

Small time thinking.

 

Weren't you advocating a £150M spend as the only answer at the start of the season?

 

 

I think that was in relation to getting to the top of the league. Getting that shower of shit to the top would take at least 150m (it was 100m tbf) and remains (depsite the piss taking) one of Parky's more prescient moments.

[Happy Face 29]

In many ways we're paying for the sins of the past because of transfer fees and wages wasted on average or over the hill players with no strings attached. However the trend's continued under Ashley with some crap players bought and presumably high wages too. And there was no excuse for the January transfer window.

 

We've been overpaying for a decade nowt to do with Ashley.

 

It is a bigger problem than just the failings of one particular regime.

 

Oh I agree I'm just saying that the new regime has hardly addressed the problem. We've sold players in January presumably to fund the wage bill but as it turned out they were players we couldn't spare. They've brought in players like Barton, Cacapa, Nolan, Xisco, and R. Taylor presumably on high wages, players who like their predecessors aren't good enough. I think they were gambling on getting through to the summer in the premiership when they could start making serious in-roads in the wage bill by kissing off the likes of Owen and Viduka. Even if we'd stayed up I was expecting some surgery on the squad. Now it will presumably involve full scale amputation.

 

Yes, yes yes...

 

But there seems to be no easy ans to the greater problem ie How to get/attract good upcoming players and keep them without paying mad money.

 

The answer is you pay them mad money.

 

Then you have no room for maneuver when things go awry (inj/form etc) and get relegated.

 

Small time thinking.

 

Weren't you advocating a £150M spend as the only answer at the start of the season?

 

 

Which you poo pooed.

 

Because it was patently ridiculous. I never said we should aim to make a profit in the transfer window(s) either though. There was a common sense middle ground to be sought.

[Scottish Mag 3]

Look at the exaggerated wages in The Daily Mail

 

WHO WILL GO AND WHO WILL STAY?

 

WORTH KEEPING:

 

NICKY BUTT £60,000 a week — a leader who will be needed.

STEVEN TAYLOR £40,000 — a proud Geordie who will want to make amends.

DANNY GUTHRIE £40,000 — will do well in Championship.

SHOLA AMEOBI £40,000 — Football League is his level.

STEVE HARPER £30,000 — deserves a run as No 1.

RYAN TAYLOR £30,000 — should pick up in lower level.

 

ON THEIR WAY:

 

MICHAEL OWEN £105,000 — out of contract, needs a new club.

DAMIEN DUFF £70,000 — says he wants to stay (yeah, right).

OBAFEMI MARTINS £70,000 — on the first plane out of Tyneside, never to be seen again.

ALAN SMITH £60,000 — strangely has a list of clubs who want him.

MARK VIDUKA £60,000 — Aussie beaches beckon.

GEREMI £60,000 — odds on for a Turkish club who need a 40-plus player.

JONAS GUTIERREZ £50,000 — cost £5.6m but no use now.

HABIB BEYE £50,000 — one of few to leave with integrity intact.

IGNACIO GONZALEZ £50,000 — who indeed?

CACAPA £40,000 — one of the worst Brazilians ever.

SEBASTIEN BASSONG £30,000 — one of Newcastle’s few assets.

PETER LOVENKRANDS £20,000 — brief loan spell to end.

KEVIN NOLAN £50,000 — January signing which backfired.

 

HARD TO SHIFT:

 

JOEY BARTON £60,000 — who would be mad enough to buy him?

JOSE ENRIQUE £60,000 — cost £6m, which was £6m too much.

FABRICIO COLOCCINI £60,000 — he was frighteningly bad.

XISCO £50,000 — an expensive flop.

[Park Life 71]

Look at the exaggerated wages in The Daily Mail

 

WHO WILL GO AND WHO WILL STAY?

 

WORTH KEEPING:

 

NICKY BUTT £60,000 a week — a leader who will be needed.

STEVEN TAYLOR £40,000 — a proud Geordie who will want to make amends.

DANNY GUTHRIE £40,000 — will do well in Championship.

SHOLA AMEOBI £40,000 — Football League is his level.

STEVE HARPER £30,000 — deserves a run as No 1.

RYAN TAYLOR £30,000 — should pick up in lower level.

 

ON THEIR WAY:

 

MICHAEL OWEN £105,000 — out of contract, needs a new club.

DAMIEN DUFF £70,000 — says he wants to stay (yeah, right).

OBAFEMI MARTINS £70,000 — on the first plane out of Tyneside, never to be seen again.

ALAN SMITH £60,000 — strangely has a list of clubs who want him.

MARK VIDUKA £60,000 — Aussie beaches beckon.

GEREMI £60,000 — odds on for a Turkish club who need a 40-plus player.

JONAS GUTIERREZ £50,000 — cost £5.6m but no use now.

HABIB BEYE £50,000 — one of few to leave with integrity intact.

IGNACIO GONZALEZ £50,000 — who indeed?

CACAPA £40,000 — one of the worst Brazilians ever.

SEBASTIEN BASSONG £30,000 — one of Newcastle’s few assets.

PETER LOVENKRANDS £20,000 — brief loan spell to end.

KEVIN NOLAN £50,000 — January signing which backfired.

 

HARD TO SHIFT:

 

JOEY BARTON £60,000 — who would be mad enough to buy him?

JOSE ENRIQUE £60,000 — cost £6m, which was £6m too much.

FABRICIO COLOCCINI £60,000 — he was frighteningly bad.

XISCO £50,000 — an expensive flop.

 

 

I remember people complaining about Emre, Dyer and Parker.

 

Different players - same cycle.

 

The issue isn't what they're on, but who they are and how do we get them without handcuffing our ability to remain pro-active. This is in reality what fucked Ashley up if for a moment we put the hate aside (and I do hate him).

[ChezGiven 0]

Thats 62m of wages in all of those players there.

 

Which leaves 8m for the rest of the staff at SJP (playing, coaching, management, retail, hospitality).

[Guest alex]

How has Enrique been shit btw? Which the above suggests. Whereas Ryan Taylor, Shola and Nicky Butt are worth hanging on to?

[Park Life 71]

In many ways we're paying for the sins of the past because of transfer fees and wages wasted on average or over the hill players with no strings attached. However the trend's continued under Ashley with some crap players bought and presumably high wages too. And there was no excuse for the January transfer window.

 

We've been overpaying for a decade nowt to do with Ashley.

 

It is a bigger problem than just the failings of one particular regime.

 

Oh I agree I'm just saying that the new regime has hardly addressed the problem. We've sold players in January presumably to fund the wage bill but as it turned out they were players we couldn't spare. They've brought in players like Barton, Cacapa, Nolan, Xisco, and R. Taylor presumably on high wages, players who like their predecessors aren't good enough. I think they were gambling on getting through to the summer in the premiership when they could start making serious in-roads in the wage bill by kissing off the likes of Owen and Viduka. Even if we'd stayed up I was expecting some surgery on the squad. Now it will presumably involve full scale amputation.

 

Yes, yes yes...

 

But there seems to be no easy ans to the greater problem ie How to get/attract good upcoming players and keep them without paying mad money.

 

The answer is you pay them mad money.

 

Then you have no room for maneuver when things go awry (inj/form etc) and get relegated.

 

Small time thinking.

 

Weren't you advocating a £150M spend as the only answer at the start of the season?

 

 

I think that was in relation to getting to the top of the league. Getting that shower of shit to the top would take at least 150m (it was 100m tbf) and remains (depsite the piss taking) one of Parky's more prescient moments.

 

If you're in the game (PL) you have to compete, there is no other way as you slowly drift down the table and start falling behind it is harder to steer the tanker. PL clubs have massive turning circles. If KK had been given even 50m we would have been fine this year (arguably) and this summer could still have been a clearout of the junk.

[Park Life 71]

How has Enrique been shit btw? Which the above suggests. Whereas Ryan Taylor, Shola and Nicky Butt are worth hanging on to?

 

Look at the bulk buying of say a Liverpool, half of whom never make it. 62 man sqad.

 

I don't bother taking seriously individual bad buys, the nature of the beast is that generally you get one goodun in 3/4. Again this takes money and intelligence and even then the one goodun might get inj or leave.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Park Life

[Happy Face 29]

Look at the exaggerated wages in The Daily Mail

 

WHO WILL GO AND WHO WILL STAY?

 

WORTH KEEPING:

 

NICKY BUTT £60,000 a week — a leader who will be needed.

STEVEN TAYLOR £40,000 — a proud Geordie who will want to make amends.

DANNY GUTHRIE £40,000 — will do well in Championship.

SHOLA AMEOBI £40,000 — Football League is his level.

STEVE HARPER £30,000 — deserves a run as No 1.

RYAN TAYLOR £30,000 — should pick up in lower level.

 

ON THEIR WAY:

 

MICHAEL OWEN £105,000 — out of contract, needs a new club.

DAMIEN DUFF £70,000 — says he wants to stay (yeah, right).

OBAFEMI MARTINS £70,000 — on the first plane out of Tyneside, never to be seen again.

ALAN SMITH £60,000 — strangely has a list of clubs who want him.

MARK VIDUKA £60,000 — Aussie beaches beckon.

GEREMI £60,000 — odds on for a Turkish club who need a 40-plus player.

JONAS GUTIERREZ £50,000 — cost £5.6m but no use now.

HABIB BEYE £50,000 — one of few to leave with integrity intact.

IGNACIO GONZALEZ £50,000 — who indeed?

CACAPA £40,000 — one of the worst Brazilians ever.

SEBASTIEN BASSONG £30,000 — one of Newcastle’s few assets.

PETER LOVENKRANDS £20,000 — brief loan spell to end.

KEVIN NOLAN £50,000 — January signing which backfired.

 

HARD TO SHIFT:

 

JOEY BARTON £60,000 — who would be mad enough to buy him?

JOSE ENRIQUE £60,000 — cost £6m, which was £6m too much.

FABRICIO COLOCCINI £60,000 — he was frighteningly bad.

XISCO £50,000 — an expensive flop.

 

So Ashley had an unenviable job given the wage bill he inherited.....but only two of the six players worth their wages was signed on Ashleys watch. 100% of those hardest to shift were signed by him and 9/13 of the other most egregious examples were his fault.

 

Aye, all Shepherd's fault like.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Happy Face

[Park Life 71]

Nicos the cycle is bigger than that IMO. There seems to be an underlying disadvantage we have which we didn't have under KK 2, then it was cause we did buy some good players and basically outspent the competition, which we can no longer do. I don't think as Leazes does it just comes down to getting a good manager, the problem is bigger and more underlying...Whether it's location or lack of success it has been with us for a while.

 

The mind boggles that we couldn't compete with the likes of Fulham and Wigan.