The Ashes

[Guest alex]

I thought Ponting was spot on post-match tbf.

[Rob W 0]

I will not be lectured on "sportsmanship" by a team that once bowled the last ball of an International One Day game underarm to win

[Guest alex]

I will not be lectured on "sportsmanship" by a team that once bowled the last ball of an International One Day game underarm to win

Hardly Bodyline like Bad craic however.

[Kitman 2207]

I will not be lectured on "sportsmanship" by a team that once bowled the last ball of an International One Day game underarm to win

 

I think it was against the Kiwis too, something which they haven't forgotten or forgiven

[Gemmill 46064]

England don't need a lecture on playing within the spirit of the game because if any team doesn't it's Ponting's Australia

England will be delighted they left Cardiff with a draw – and no doubt amused that they head for Lord's with a lecture about the spirit of the game from Ricky Ponting, of all people, still ringing in their ears. If any side in the world doesn't play within the spirit of the game it's Ponting's Australians, yet here he is sitting in judgment on England because he's frustrated that his bowlers failed to complete the job. Ponting getting frustrated – does that remind you of anything?

I should make it clear that I don't condone what England did. It was legitimate to send the 12th man out the first time because there would have been a message to get across to Jimmy Anderson and Monty Panesar, but it was wrong when he came out again soon afterwards and brought the physio with him. Had I been coach, I wouldn't have let it happen.

But let's not get carried away. What England did ate up maybe an over at most. If the batsmen had wasted the same amount of time talking between overs, no one would have batted an eyelid. Instead we're left with the ridiculous situation of being told off by an Australian captain for transgressing cricket's spirit – a notion he seems to only vaguely understand himself.

My feeling about the spirit of the game is that the players have gone too far if what they are doing sets a bad example to schoolboys watching at home. But can the Australians really argue that England's tactics are worse than the way Ponting places pressure on the umpires and makes them look bad in front of a huge crowd and TV audience? And we haven't even mentioned Australia's sledging.

The way he objected after Aleem Dar rightly turned down a catch at silly point off Paul Collingwood was typical. Back in 2005 Ponting and his team were over-aggressive towards the umpires on a regular basis, and he was at it again here. Ponting has to be careful. Someone needs to sit down and ask him what he understands by the spirit of the game. The way he plays is definitely not in the spirit. And if the Australians would have you think that they'd have done things differently on Sunday evening, then pigs might soon be spotted in the skies above St John's Wood.

As I said, I'm not in agreement with what England did, but they will now be thinking that the Australians are getting very prickly – just like four years ago – and that's a good sign for Andrew Strauss and the team. The pressure is on Australia now after their bowlers messed up, and that's something England can take advantage of.

I found it strange that Ponting didn't use the fast bowlers more at Anderson and Panesar. Monty will sit in there all day against medium-pacers and spinners, and he deserves praise, but he's not so sure against the quicks. Australia missed ...... Brett Lee massively, and I think England can be grateful to South Africa for the performance of Mitchell Johnson. He was over-bowled against them in the winter and looks to have lost some of his edge.

But none of that should take anything away from the performance of Collingwood. I've never understood why he gets maligned as he does, and his batting shows that selecting players for their guts can be as important as choosing them for their flair. I see that Collingwood now shares an England fourth-wicket partnership record with Kevin Pietersen – ahead of guys like Ken Barrington and Colin Cowdrey. Can't be too bad, then.

And don't forget the way Graeme Swann batted in both innings. Sure, it's an old hobby horse of mine, but how many more times do people need to be reminded of the value of a line-up that bats deep? When Stuart Broad got out before tea, I wrongly assumed the game was over. But these lower-order players know how to hold a bat nowadays.

People have been talking about Pietersen, which seems to go with the territory. I have no issue with the way he got out in the second innings – these things happen. And the reaction to his sweep against Nathan Hauritz has been overblown. I'm sure Kevin will sit down and wonder whether he should have pulled out of the shot, but to criticise it for being premeditated misses the point: all strokes, to a greater or lesser degree, are premeditated. Part of the furore was the fact that he played the sweep, which is disliked by old-fashioned commentators, whose views then get picked up by the public. But I have no problem with it.

Both sides must now think about their bowling attack for Lord's and I think the only change England should make is to bring in Graham Onions for Panesar. I know Steve Harmison is in as cover for Flintoff, but England must resist picking him. How many times has he got us excited in the past, only to let us down? If the last few days have shown us anything, it's that tough characters are required if England are going to compete.

 

Ponting chinned by Fletcher.

[sammynb 3508]

Fuck I hate cricket.

[Ken 119]

England don't need a lecture on playing within the spirit of the game because if any team doesn't it's Ponting's Australia

England will be delighted they left Cardiff with a draw – and no doubt amused that they head for Lord's with a lecture about the spirit of the game from Ricky Ponting, of all people, still ringing in their ears. If any side in the world doesn't play within the spirit of the game it's Ponting's Australians, yet here he is sitting in judgment on England because he's frustrated that his bowlers failed to complete the job. Ponting getting frustrated – does that remind you of anything?

I should make it clear that I don't condone what England did. It was legitimate to send the 12th man out the first time because there would have been a message to get across to Jimmy Anderson and Monty Panesar, but it was wrong when he came out again soon afterwards and brought the physio with him. Had I been coach, I wouldn't have let it happen.

But let's not get carried away. What England did ate up maybe an over at most. If the batsmen had wasted the same amount of time talking between overs, no one would have batted an eyelid. Instead we're left with the ridiculous situation of being told off by an Australian captain for transgressing cricket's spirit – a notion he seems to only vaguely understand himself.

My feeling about the spirit of the game is that the players have gone too far if what they are doing sets a bad example to schoolboys watching at home. But can the Australians really argue that England's tactics are worse than the way Ponting places pressure on the umpires and makes them look bad in front of a huge crowd and TV audience? And we haven't even mentioned Australia's sledging.

The way he objected after Aleem Dar rightly turned down a catch at silly point off Paul Collingwood was typical. Back in 2005 Ponting and his team were over-aggressive towards the umpires on a regular basis, and he was at it again here. Ponting has to be careful. Someone needs to sit down and ask him what he understands by the spirit of the game. The way he plays is definitely not in the spirit. And if the Australians would have you think that they'd have done things differently on Sunday evening, then pigs might soon be spotted in the skies above St John's Wood.

As I said, I'm not in agreement with what England did, but they will now be thinking that the Australians are getting very prickly – just like four years ago – and that's a good sign for Andrew Strauss and the team. The pressure is on Australia now after their bowlers messed up, and that's something England can take advantage of.

I found it strange that Ponting didn't use the fast bowlers more at Anderson and Panesar. Monty will sit in there all day against medium-pacers and spinners, and he deserves praise, but he's not so sure against the quicks. Australia missed ...... Brett Lee massively, and I think England can be grateful to South Africa for the performance of Mitchell Johnson. He was over-bowled against them in the winter and looks to have lost some of his edge.

But none of that should take anything away from the performance of Collingwood. I've never understood why he gets maligned as he does, and his batting shows that selecting players for their guts can be as important as choosing them for their flair. I see that Collingwood now shares an England fourth-wicket partnership record with Kevin Pietersen – ahead of guys like Ken Barrington and Colin Cowdrey. Can't be too bad, then.

And don't forget the way Graeme Swann batted in both innings. Sure, it's an old hobby horse of mine, but how many more times do people need to be reminded of the value of a line-up that bats deep? When Stuart Broad got out before tea, I wrongly assumed the game was over. But these lower-order players know how to hold a bat nowadays.

People have been talking about Pietersen, which seems to go with the territory. I have no issue with the way he got out in the second innings – these things happen. And the reaction to his sweep against Nathan Hauritz has been overblown. I'm sure Kevin will sit down and wonder whether he should have pulled out of the shot, but to criticise it for being premeditated misses the point: all strokes, to a greater or lesser degree, are premeditated. Part of the furore was the fact that he played the sweep, which is disliked by old-fashioned commentators, whose views then get picked up by the public. But I have no problem with it.

Both sides must now think about their bowling attack for Lord's and I think the only change England should make is to bring in Graham Onions for Panesar. I know Steve Harmison is in as cover for Flintoff, but England must resist picking him. How many times has he got us excited in the past, only to let us down? If the last few days have shown us anything, it's that tough characters are required if England are going to compete.

 

Ponting chinned by Fletcher.

Didn't England lose an Ashes series 5-0 under Fletch???

[Ken 119]

Bit disillusioned by some of the decisions made by Ponting in the last session. Siddle should have had more overs and Hauritz was overused imo. Match that should have been won

I thought Hilfenhaus should definitely have had more overs, he was taken out of the attack way too early. I don't understand why Ponting took him off and persisted with Mitchell Johnson. Johnson absolutely wasted an opportunity with the second new ball.

 

Anyway a draw is a decent enough result. I don't blame England for time wasting. They are absolutely outclassed in every facet of the game. Let them send out a fat bastard of a physio to waste time. Seeing him waddle on then off with his boobs jiggling about was probably the highlight of the test match for me, besides the 4 centuries made.

 

I really can't see England winning any of the next 4 matches. They offer nothing. They get their hopes up by beating a bunch of part timers from the Caribbean and think they're in with a chance against Australia. The best they can hope for are 4 draws. Who knows, we may see that fat bastard waddling onto the ground again eh?

And England will once again celebrate a draw as if it were a win.

Any team would have celebrated a draw under the circumstances, a bit like you lot did in 2005. I'd think anyone with a bit of a clue wouldn't celebrate like it was a win though. Not saying we deserved much out of the game but I think you arrogance is a bit misplaced since Monty Panesar (one of the biggest 'rabbits' in test cricket) looked like he could have batted all day against your average attack.

And how is a draw a 'decent enough result' for a team who 'outclassed' us 'in every facet of the game'?

Many people celebrated the result as if it were a win. Perhaps this is why England are inferior; they don't expect to win against Australia and rightly so. And Alex, tell me one area that England were better in...

 

England, I believe are second rate, despite Australia's current lack of a game killer. What have they really got to offer in the next 4 games?

Onions?!?

Who the fuck is Onions... you'll need potatoes, shitakes and rice plus more and more carbs before you get even close.

Yes, just like you did at Old Trafford in 2005...

 

In fact from what I recall, Lee and McGrath seemed a lot happier with that than the England batsmen. They were only one wicket away from defeat.

Stop living in the past, just concentrate on the nows and soons

[Ken 119]

Bit disillusioned by some of the decisions made by Ponting in the last session. Siddle should have had more overs and Hauritz was overused imo. Match that should have been won

I thought Hilfenhaus should definitely have had more overs, he was taken out of the attack way too early. I don't understand why Ponting took him off and persisted with Mitchell Johnson. Johnson absolutely wasted an opportunity with the second new ball.

 

Anyway a draw is a decent enough result. I don't blame England for time wasting. They are absolutely outclassed in every facet of the game. Let them send out a fat bastard of a physio to waste time. Seeing him waddle on then off with his boobs jiggling about was probably the highlight of the test match for me, besides the 4 centuries made.

 

I really can't see England winning any of the next 4 matches. They offer nothing. They get their hopes up by beating a bunch of part timers from the Caribbean and think they're in with a chance against Australia. The best they can hope for are 4 draws. Who knows, we may see that fat bastard waddling onto the ground again eh?

And England will once again celebrate a draw as if it were a win.

Any team would have celebrated a draw under the circumstances, a bit like you lot did in 2005. I'd think anyone with a bit of a clue wouldn't celebrate like it was a win though. Not saying we deserved much out of the game but I think you arrogance is a bit misplaced since Monty Panesar (one of the biggest 'rabbits' in test cricket) looked like he could have batted all day against your average attack.

And how is a draw a 'decent enough result' for a team who 'outclassed' us 'in every facet of the game'?

Many people celebrated the result as if it were a win. Perhaps this is why England are inferior; they don't expect to win against Australia and rightly so. And Alex, tell me one area that England were better in...

 

England, I believe are second rate, despite Australia's current lack of a game killer. What have they really got to offer in the next 4 games?

Onions?!?

Who the fuck is Onions... you'll need potatoes, shitakes and rice plus more and more carbs before you get even close.

I'm not saying we weren't inferior in every aspect though. The point is it was a great result under the circumstances because of that. And winning / losing has very little to do with fans' expectations as I think a lot of people thought England had a great chance of recapturing the Ashes and still do so I wouldn't say there's much to your argument that we the difference in the teams is down to fans not expecting to win. Also, I think the celebrations were largely short-lived because we were outplayed (I was delighted because we should have lost when you looked at the situation we were in but not kidding myself we were any great shakes). I still think Australia will win because although they aren't the side they were 4 or 2 years ago we're nowhere near the side we were last time we played you lot in England. We've been poor over the last couple of years in particular. We've got a bit of a chance if we up our game though I think because it's in England and the lack of experience against swing might be a factor. I actually think on paper we have at least as good an attack as yours too (especially with Brett Lee out). Trouble is we'll have to perform at nearly 100% in every session of every test and we haven't looked like doing that lately.

Both teams are significantly weaker compared to last time they both played in England, Alex, and in all honesty the draw should (rightfully) be seen as a more significant result to England than it was to Australia considering what went on on the final day's play, and for that reason I can totally understand the celebrations that went on after the game ended (despite the banter).

 

Ponting gets a lot of criticism for his captaincy and he has made some really questionable tactical plays in past series against India and South Africa. He won't ever be able to shake off those demons I believe, and he'll be heavily scrutinised over the coming weeks for not being able to kill off games, rightly or wrongly. It's that lack of a game killer which will keep the series interesting in my opinion, and it's a great distraction, as I pointed out earlier, to the sorry state of affairs that are currently being played out at the football club.

 

Can't wait for the second test to begin...

[Rob W 0]

I will not be lectured on "sportsmanship" by a team that once bowled the last ball of an International One Day game underarm to win

 

I think it was against the Kiwis too, something which they haven't forgotten or forgiven

 

 

yes - MAJOR international incident

 

I seem to remember the NZ Prime Minister observing the Oztralians played in green with a yellow stripe and now he knew why........................................

[Matty 0]

Andrew Flintoff looks set to announce his retirement from Test cricket according to reports.

 

Flintoff is set to hold a press conference at Lord's on Wednesday following a report in The Sun claiming he would quit Tests after the Ashes.

 

The 31-year-old all-rounder, a key figure in the 2005 triumph, is battling to be fit for the second Test against Australia after complaining of soreness in his right knee.

 

Flintoff, who has been dogged by ankle and knee injuries in recent seasons, had a cortisone injection on Monday in a bid to help with the healing.

 

And it appears the injuries have now taken their toll, with Flintoff intending to sacrifice five-day cricket to try to ensure his fitness for 50-over and Twenty20 international matches.

 

Flintoff, who has played 75 times in 11 years, is believed to have told his team-mates of his intentions ahead of Wednesday's practice session.

[Matty 0]

From The Times:

 

Andrew Flintoff will retire from Test cricket at the end of this summer's Ashes series. The England all-rounder is expected to confirm that his injury problems have got the better of him at an 11am press conference today.

[Kid Dynamite 7179]

Anyone seen the SSN clip of him doing a silly dance during training. He looks a right cunt!

[Matty 0]

Anyone seen the SSN clip of him doing a silly dance during training. He looks a right cunt!

 

Looked like he was just having a laugh with his mates before/after training tbh.

[Kid Dynamite 7179]

I used to dance like that to get a laugh out of my mates

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

when I was 9

[The Fish 10972]

KD's right, you can't mess around after you hit 10, it's not cool. You also can't enjoy yourself in other ways that don't conform to the prescribed straight edged lifestyle. Fuck I wish I was as cool as him.

 

Edited July 15, 2009 by The Fish

[Andrew 4863]

shame, still its been obvious that hes been struggling with fitness for a long while now, hopefully this will give him that boost for the ODI and t20s

[smoggeordie 0]

Rumours that Onions replacing Flintoff. As much as I like him, it would be an absolutely ridiculous decision not to pick GBH.

 

EDIT: BBC now saying Freddie plays.

Edited July 16, 2009 by smoggeordie

[smoggeordie 0]

On another note, there's some awful editing on the Ashes/Sky Player advert, when Hoggard is running in to bowl the batsman is left handed and magically becomes right handed a second later.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Onions in for Monty.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

England win the toss, we're batting.

[sammynb 3508]

FFS is this not finished already?

[Kid Dynamite 7179]

Im no cricket expert, but from what ive seen of Harmison this month he is the best bowler in the country. Yet hes not even in the first team!?

[Matty 0]

65-0 so far for England...

 

Aussies currently 10/3 to win the match, interesting odds. They were 7/1 at one point to win the last one and came 1 wicket away from the win of course. England are 3/1 and the draw is favourite at 4/6.

[Guest alex]

The draws a canny bet at 4/6 iyam. Dead pitch and a shit weather forecast.