Renton 22493 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Lets face it - most coppers aren't that bright - it's not exactly the hardest job to get in to - and most of them spend most of their time doing very very boring jobs at anti social hours - and no-one is friends with you any more So when they get the chance of a bit of excitement they tend to go over the top - screaming through Newcastle at 90 mph in an unmarked car, beating up some fat git in London, shooting the odd innocent Brazilian................. There are a LOT worse police forces in the world - try France.... or Russia for example That of course doesn't excuse our lot when they go over the top - if they do they should be investigated and punished if they are guilty Renton would agree with you. Most other people would agree that just because the police in Zimbabwe are worse, it's absolutely no excuse, and not worth mentioning. Your making one hell of an assmption with there Fop about what other people think. Not that I ever made a comparison to Zimbabwe or any other country. I merely said that, in my opinion, the UK has one of, if not the best, police force and judicial system in the world. You've still refused to give on opinion on this I notice, but this is entirely relevant when trying to put the present issues in context and defining the scope of the problem (if one exists). Things are never going to be perfect but I bet you'd still be whining on about the police even if they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22493 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8017896.stm Why did you post that? What's your opinion on it? Former Flying Squad chief John O'Connor described the matter as a "storm in a teacup" and that similar contacts are often made with individuals in protest groups and in the criminal world. He told the BBC: "That's what the police do. The police don't sit in their ivory towers, and expect the phone to ring and be given intelligence information. "They go out actively to try and gather it." He's spot on, don't you watch the Bill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8017896.stm Why did you post that? What's your opinion on it? Former Flying Squad chief John O'Connor described the matter as a "storm in a teacup" and that similar contacts are often made with individuals in protest groups and in the criminal world. He told the BBC: "That's what the police do. The police don't sit in their ivory towers, and expect the phone to ring and be given intelligence information. "They go out actively to try and gather it." He's spot on, don't you watch the Bill? Works the other way too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted April 25, 2009 Author Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) Lets face it - most coppers aren't that bright - it's not exactly the hardest job to get in to - and most of them spend most of their time doing very very boring jobs at anti social hours - and no-one is friends with you any more So when they get the chance of a bit of excitement they tend to go over the top - screaming through Newcastle at 90 mph in an unmarked car, beating up some fat git in London, shooting the odd innocent Brazilian................. There are a LOT worse police forces in the world - try France.... or Russia for example That of course doesn't excuse our lot when they go over the top - if they do they should be investigated and punished if they are guilty Renton would agree with you. Most other people would agree that just because the police in Zimbabwe are worse, it's absolutely no excuse, and not worth mentioning. Your making one hell of an assmption with there Fop about what other people think. Not that I ever made a comparison to Zimbabwe or any other country. I merely said that, in my opinion, the UK has one of, if not the best, police force and judicial system in the world. You've still refused to give on opinion on this I notice, but this is entirely relevant when trying to put the present issues in context and defining the scope of the problem (if one exists). Things are never going to be perfect but I bet you'd still be whining on about the police even if they were. See again you are saying just that, by implying that because things could be worse, there's no reason to be bothered about what is wrong. Which is complete and utter codswallop of course, wrong is wrong no matter how good or bad everything may or may not be. Edited April 25, 2009 by Fop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted April 25, 2009 Author Share Posted April 25, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8017896.stm Why did you post that? What's your opinion on it? Former Flying Squad chief John O'Connor described the matter as a "storm in a teacup" and that similar contacts are often made with individuals in protest groups and in the criminal world. He told the BBC: "That's what the police do. The police don't sit in their ivory towers, and expect the phone to ring and be given intelligence information. "They go out actively to try and gather it." He's spot on, don't you watch the Bill? Reminds me of when the DfT had one of the biggest spy networks and "watch lists" in the country. There's threat and then there's threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22493 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Lets face it - most coppers aren't that bright - it's not exactly the hardest job to get in to - and most of them spend most of their time doing very very boring jobs at anti social hours - and no-one is friends with you any more So when they get the chance of a bit of excitement they tend to go over the top - screaming through Newcastle at 90 mph in an unmarked car, beating up some fat git in London, shooting the odd innocent Brazilian................. There are a LOT worse police forces in the world - try France.... or Russia for example That of course doesn't excuse our lot when they go over the top - if they do they should be investigated and punished if they are guilty Renton would agree with you. Most other people would agree that just because the police in Zimbabwe are worse, it's absolutely no excuse, and not worth mentioning. Your making one hell of an assmption with there Fop about what other people think. Not that I ever made a comparison to Zimbabwe or any other country. I merely said that, in my opinion, the UK has one of, if not the best, police force and judicial system in the world. You've still refused to give on opinion on this I notice, but this is entirely relevant when trying to put the present issues in context and defining the scope of the problem (if one exists). Things are never going to be perfect but I bet you'd still be whining on about the police even if they were. See again you are saying just that, by implying that because things could be worse, there's no reason to be bothered about what is wrong. Which is complete and utter codswallop of course, wrong is wrong no matter how good or bad everything may or may not be. I made my point perfectly clearly, you still won't answer a simple point on some ridiculous pretence it's outside the scope of the discussion. Don't assume other people don't see the relevance though. Anyway, this threads clearly run it's course and come to an impasse, time for your usual last word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted April 25, 2009 Author Share Posted April 25, 2009 Lets face it - most coppers aren't that bright - it's not exactly the hardest job to get in to - and most of them spend most of their time doing very very boring jobs at anti social hours - and no-one is friends with you any more So when they get the chance of a bit of excitement they tend to go over the top - screaming through Newcastle at 90 mph in an unmarked car, beating up some fat git in London, shooting the odd innocent Brazilian................. There are a LOT worse police forces in the world - try France.... or Russia for example That of course doesn't excuse our lot when they go over the top - if they do they should be investigated and punished if they are guilty Renton would agree with you. Most other people would agree that just because the police in Zimbabwe are worse, it's absolutely no excuse, and not worth mentioning. Your making one hell of an assmption with there Fop about what other people think. Not that I ever made a comparison to Zimbabwe or any other country. I merely said that, in my opinion, the UK has one of, if not the best, police force and judicial system in the world. You've still refused to give on opinion on this I notice, but this is entirely relevant when trying to put the present issues in context and defining the scope of the problem (if one exists). Things are never going to be perfect but I bet you'd still be whining on about the police even if they were. See again you are saying just that, by implying that because things could be worse, there's no reason to be bothered about what is wrong. Which is complete and utter codswallop of course, wrong is wrong no matter how good or bad everything may or may not be. I made my point perfectly clearly, you still won't answer a simple point on some ridiculous pretence it's outside the scope of the discussion. Don't assume other people don't see the relevance though. Anyway, this threads clearly run it's course and come to an impasse, time for your usual last word. Like Fop said wrong is wrong, if you want to discuss the merits of the UK police service versus other police forces, fair enough. But that's another discussion, so don't try to pretend otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22493 Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 G20 police 'told to remain calm' Police say they faced one of their most complex operations ever Officers policing the G20 protests in London were told to remain "calm and restrained", says a Met police report. Supervisors also had to ensure officers displayed ID numbers, says the report being presented to a Metropolitan Police Authority meeting later. The Independent Police Complaints Commission is looking into more than 80 allegations that police used excessive force at this month's demonstrations. Ian Tomlinson, 47, died minutes after he was pushed over by an officer. A police officer has been suspended and interviewed under caution on suspicion of manslaughter following the death of the newspaper vendor. An initial post-mortem examination concluded that Mr Tomlinson had died from coronary artery disease, but a second examination, by a different pathologist, concluded abdominal bleeding had been the cause of death. The results of a third post-mortem, requested by the interviewed police officer's legal team, have not been released. 'Professional' Temporary Assistant Commissioner Chris Allison's report says that in the run-up to the G20 meeting, the media had "exaggerated" the potential for violent disorder. Consequently, it says, police were briefed on the correct intelligence picture. They were reminded to remain "calm, restrained" and to react "professionally" to events. Supervisors were meant to ensure that officers displayed identification numbers on their uniforms, but video footage of the demonstrations has indicated that some did not show them. Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson has criticised officers who failed to display their ID numbers. But he said that policing the G20 was "one of the most complex policing operations that's ever been undertaken - protecting multiple heads of state". Home Office minister Lord West has said that thousands of officers acted "absolutely professionally" during the protests. But he said: "This does not excuse acts that are criminal and there are now investigations for those particulars." The report will also reveal problems during the protests with the police radio communications system, Airwave. Demand on radio channels was "unprecedented" and there was an "issue" with radio batteries because police were deployed for so long, the report says. Foptastic. A few bad apples or evidence of systematic abuse and racism? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8026097.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted April 30, 2009 Author Share Posted April 30, 2009 It's called "covering their ass", you know what you do after Fop's second reply to you on a subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted May 29, 2009 Author Share Posted May 29, 2009 Mob murder victim had heart attack, court told Loyalists outside Ballymena Magistrate's Court yesterday where six people were charged with the murder of Kevin McDaid Also in Courts By Ian Graham Friday May 29 2009 THE Catholic cross-community worker attacked and killed by a loyalist mob in the North suffered a fatal heart attack while being beaten, a court heard yesterday. The results of a preliminary post-mortem examination were revealed when six men appeared, charged with murder. The six denied murdering father-of-four Kevin McDaid (49) in Coleraine, Co Derry, last Sunday night. They, and another two men, also denied the attempted murder of Damien Fleming (46). Some of the men were charged with assault -- Mr McDaid's widow was attacked as was a pregnant neighbour. The accused, aged 18 to 50, appeared at Ballymena Magistrate's Court where all denied all charges. The violence flared when a loyalist mob of up to 40 entered a Catholic area of the town after Rangers beat Celtic to the Scottish Premiership. A detective inspector told the court the preliminary post-mortem examination showed Mr McDaid had suffered a broken nose and bruising to his back and that he had an enlarged heart and died as a result of a heart attack. http://www.independent.ie/national-news/co...ld-1754826.html Interesting (in the context of this case) that it's a murder charge and yet he actually died of a heart attack from a pre-existing heart condition - maybe a property conveubermancer can say why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 G20 woman 'may have miscarried' G20 protests in London on 1 April 2009 The IPCC concluded that the woman was forcibly pushed by an officer A woman who says she was kicked and pushed with shields and batons by police at the G20 protests may have had a miscarriage, a report has said. Her GP informed her that bleeding she suffered could have been a miscarriage - though this was never confirmed. The Independent Police Complaints Commission said the likelihood she miscarried was "low" but called for changes to the policing of protests. Scotland Yard said there was an "opportunity for lessons to be learnt". One man died after the London protests and investigators are looking at other formal complaints about police actions. 'Disproportionate and inhumane' The 23-year-old woman - who has not been named - made a complaint to the IPCC about her treatment by officers at the Climate Camp in Bishopsgate on the day of the demonstration. She said she was left with bruising on her arms and legs as well as heavy intimate bleeding. According to the report, she said her treatment by officers was "unnecessary, disproportionate and inhumane" and she felt "violated". She added: "The police used excessive force against me causing me to suffer bruises, swellings, and potentially a miscarriage. "I will probably never know or be able to prove that I was pregnant but I feel very distressed that this may have happened." The IPCC concluded the woman was forcibly pushed by an officer and she was not allowed to leave the area of Bishopsgate for four to five hours to make herself more comfortable with regard to her bleeding. It found officers used shields to move the crowd backwards, a tactic which has not been approved nationally by senior officers. Deborah Glass of the IPCC said, while her alleged injuries were more serious than most suffered that day, her experience "appears to have been typical of many peaceful protestors on 1 April". She added: "She was caught up in what appears to have been a frightening experience over which she had little or no control. "Like many others that day, she had no prior warning of the police intention to use force in containing the crowd, and no prior warning of a containment tactic that prevented her leaving when she began to bleed." It has sent a report to the Inspectorate of Constabulary and Scotland Yard and called for an "immediate change" to the policing of protests. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8187343.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11080 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 "I will probably never know or be able to prove that I was pregnant but I feel very distressed that this may have happened." Well that's enough for a conviction if you ask me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 "I will probably never know or be able to prove that I was pregnant but I feel very distressed that this may have happened." Well that's enough for a conviction if you ask me She said she was left with bruising on her arms and legs as well as heavy intimate bleeding. clearly the police should be able to beat any woman they want until they bleed heavily from the vagina, as clearly they deserve it. They'll be asking for the vote next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11080 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 And people should be allowed to make entirely unsubstantiated claims for no real benefit to anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 And people should be allowed to make entirely unsubstantiated claims for no real benefit to anyone Have you ever (non-consensual) beaten a woman till she bled from the the vagina and it was legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11080 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 And people should be allowed to make entirely unsubstantiated claims for no real benefit to anyone Have you ever (non-consensual) beaten a woman till she bled from the the vagina and it was legal? Fop this is really pretty boring. You're Hell-bent on railing against the police at any opportunity and at the same time you need to paint whom-so-ever tries to offer a middle-ground, reasonable argument in reply, as a totalitarian. Your arguments allow for zero nuance. In your arguments every police officer is guilty of basically every atrocity known to man. In your arguments, those recording displeasure at the police are without reproach. In your arguments there are no such things as good police. There can be no thought given to those determined to clash violently with the police. In your arguments the police are endowed with, but never utilise, superhuman levels of tolerance, perception and judgement, in the face of the kind of stress that would have you whimpering into your keyboard... which you instantly dismiss. Anyone who argues against you, has their argument contorted into some cartoon response which, of course any reasonable man could see is simply not representative. I tried to have a reasonable conversation, but your tedious habit of reinterpreting counter-arguments renders debate fruitless. I hope one day you'll sort your head out and move away from childish techniques, but I truly doubt you will. and with that? good night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 And people should be allowed to make entirely unsubstantiated claims for no real benefit to anyone Have you ever (non-consensual) beaten a woman till she bled from the the vagina and it was legal? Fop this is really pretty boring. You're Hell-bent on railing against the police at any opportunity and at the same time you need to paint whom-so-ever tries to offer a middle-ground, reasonable argument in reply, as a totalitarian. Your arguments allow for zero nuance. In your arguments every police officer is guilty of basically every atrocity known to man. In your arguments, those recording displeasure at the police are without reproach. In your arguments there are no such things as good police. There can be no thought given to those determined to clash violently with the police. In your arguments the police are endowed with, but never utilise, superhuman levels of tolerance, perception and judgement, in the face of the kind of stress that would have you whimpering into your keyboard... which you instantly dismiss. Anyone who argues against you, has their argument contorted into some cartoon response which, of course any reasonable man could see is simply not representative. I tried to have a reasonable conversation, but your tedious habit of reinterpreting counter-arguments renders debate fruitless. I hope one day you'll sort your head out and move away from childish techniques, but I truly doubt you will. and with that? good night. "middle ground"? Beating a woman till she bleeds from the vagina is "middle ground" now is it? Not sure where Fop is "railing" either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11080 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) Given that kettling is scientifically proven to be likely to provoke violence, and therefore utterly counter-productive, why do the police use it? Why are people held without reason for so long? The suspicion that someone somewhere in the crowd might do something illegal is not good enough reason to arbitrarily round everyone they can see up and hold them indefinately, never mind beat them to death or till they bleed from the vagina if they try to leave. It is not "reasonable" nor "right", even if they have draconian legislation passed to make it "legal". So again what exactly is this "middle ground" of which you speak? Only beating a few people to death for no reason instead of them all? Edited August 6, 2009 by Fop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) Also out of interest how many innocent people do the police have to beat to death or beat till they bleed from their vaginas before "railing" about it would be allowed IYO Fish? Obviously more than 2..... 5 maybe? 10? 1000? Not that Fop is "railing", of course, just it's an another interesting question about your "middle ground". Edited August 6, 2009 by Fop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11080 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Positively frothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted August 7, 2009 Author Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) Positively frothing. So your vaunted "middle ground" clearly is beating a woman till she bleeds from the vagina. Nice. Fop can see why you're such a hit with the ladies. Edited August 7, 2009 by Fop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11080 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 With every post you make, you prove my point further. All the while convincing yourself that you're "winning". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted August 7, 2009 Author Share Posted August 7, 2009 With every post you make, you prove my point further. All the while convincing yourself that you're "winning". Explain your "middle ground" then. Which of the 3 options would your "middle ground" be closest too: a. Never beating an innocent woman till she bled from the vagina? b. Only beating an innocent woman a couple of times to limit the chance of making her bled from the vagina? c. Always beating an innocent women till she bled form the vagina if you felt like it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11080 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Why should I answer any preposterous question you pose, when you refuse to answer any reasonable question posed by any of the members on this board? Those aren't the only options to your question so I refuse to answer on the ground that it's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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