Footage shows G20 death man push

[Fop 1]

Footage shows G20 death man push

 

Ian Tomlinson at the protest - Exclusive footage obtained by Guardian.co.uk

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/busine...g20/7988812.stm

 

A man who died during the G20 protest was pushed to the ground by a police officer, video footage has shown.

 

Ian Tomlinson, 47, collapsed from a heart attack during protests outside the Bank of England last Wednesday.

 

Newsagent Mr Tomlinson, who was not protesting, is seen receiving a two-handed push from a police officer.

 

A New York fund manager recorded the footage, saying he came forward with the video because Mr Tomlinson's family "were not getting any answers".

 

The pictures were shot at 1929 BST at Royal Exchange Passage. They are believed to be the last of Mr Tomlinson alive.

 

Mr Tomlinson's family have appealed for witnesses

 

Initially, the pictures show Mr Tomlinson walking away from a group of police officers.

 

He lands heavily on the ground before remonstrating with police.

 

Daniel Sandford, BBC Home Affairs correspondent, said: "Campaigners have been saying all along that Mr Tomlinson's heart attack may have, in some way, been linked to how the police were treating protesters that evening.

 

"This is now going to raise some more serious questions about the police behaviour on that night.

 

"Why is it that one of the officers walks up to a man who appears to be walking away from him. He [Mr Tomlinson] does not look like he is 100% co-operative but he is not being uncooperative."

 

The Guardian newspaper obtained the footage and it plans to hand the video to the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC).

 

An IPCC spokeswoman said: "The IPCC has been made aware of the footage broadcast on a national newspaper's website.

 

"We are now attempting to recover this evidence. We will be assessing this along with the other statements and photographs that have already been submitted."

 

Earlier, Mr Tomlinson's family made an appeal for witnesses.

 

A statement from the family said: "Ian was a massive football fan and would have looked distinctive in his Millwall top.

 

"He was probably on his way back from work to watch the England match and got caught up in the crowds."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7988828.stm

 

Worth watching the BBC video.

 

Probably as much manslaughter as say pushing/punching someone over and giving them a fatal brain bleed (which someone was convicted of today come to think of it).

 

Also:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2009/apr...-police-assault

[Tom 14011]

It looked a totally unnecessary attack too.

[Douggy B 0]

Poor Fucker, was on his way to the England game and got caught up in it but you have to wonder about a 47 year olds health if getting pushed over sparks a heart attack.

[peasepud 59]

Poor Fucker, was on his way to the England game and got caught up in it but you have to wonder about a 47 year olds health if getting pushed over sparks a heart attack.

 

[NJS 4355]

I have no respect whatsoever for the police but people calling this "manslaughter" are wrong imo. Anyone with even 2 brain cells would have realised that "dawdling" in front of a line of riot coppers with dogs was asking for trouble. I have read some reports that he'd been whacked previously to this incident which would explain it but otherwise his actions were a bit daft to say the least.

 

Of course the coppers were out of order but thats what they do - as I've made the point before anyone who has gone to football at anytime in the last 30 years will have seen actions like this or even been the victim if unlucky (I have on a couple of occasions) many many times.

 

This does mean the autopsy/inquest will now be the most manipulated since Dr David Kelly's.

[Renton 21040]

Probably as much manslaughter as say pushing/punching someone over and giving them a fatal brain bleed (which someone was convicted of today come to think of it).

 

Hardly.

[Guest alex]

The demonstrators seem to want it both ways. I.e. do what they want yet pushing someone who wouldn't get out the way is terrible. Echo NJS's comments about the police but the bloke knew what he was doing. Not saying he deserved his fate before someone levels that at me but he was clearly a heart attack waiting to happen.

[Park Life 71]

Tragedy basically. Batton hits to the side of the body cause a lot more damage than people realise and can cause paralysis for a few mins on one side of the body, putting a great strain on the heart.

[Park Life 71]

The demonstrators seem to want it both ways. I.e. do what they want yet pushing someone who wouldn't get out the way is terrible. Echo NJS's comments about the police but the bloke knew what he was doing. Not saying he deserved his fate before someone levels that at me but he was clearly a heart attack waiting to happen.

 

I don't think he was in the demo, just on his way home from work.

[Rob W 0]

It's clear looking at the footage that the copper just decided to "have a go" at some poor sod who was wandering along the street - and they wonder why peopel don't trust them

 

I suppose the ironic fact is that with more CCTV coverage they're as likely to get caught as terrorists these days

[Renton 21040]

Tragedy basically. Batton hits to the side of the body cause a lot more damage than people realise and can cause paralysis for a few mins on one side of the body, putting a great strain on the heart.

 

Can you clarify what you mean by that, from a medical perspective? It sounds like nonsense.

[NJS 4355]

I don't think he was in the demo, just on his way home from work.

 

 

I;ve read that and accept it which makes the way he walks in front of them more strange - I'd stop short of "asking for it" but definitely weird nontheless.

[Guest alex]

The demonstrators seem to want it both ways. I.e. do what they want yet pushing someone who wouldn't get out the way is terrible. Echo NJS's comments about the police but the bloke knew what he was doing. Not saying he deserved his fate before someone levels that at me but he was clearly a heart attack waiting to happen.

 

I don't think he was in the demo, just on his way home from work.

Irrespective of that it's the demonstrators arguing his case. Not saying the policeman was in the right because he clearly wasn't. To say he was just walking down the street as Rob suggests is bollocks though. He was being what I suppose you'd call 'mildly provocative'.

[Guest alex]

Tragedy basically. Batton hits to the side of the body cause a lot more damage than people realise and can cause paralysis for a few mins on one side of the body, putting a great strain on the heart.

 

Can you clarify what you mean by that, from a medical perspective? It sounds like nonsense.

Rhetorical question?

[Park Life 71]

Tragedy basically. Batton hits to the side of the body cause a lot more damage than people realise and can cause paralysis for a few mins on one side of the body, putting a great strain on the heart.

 

Can you clarify what you mean by that, from a medical perspective? It sounds like nonsense.

 

 

I was with a body guard in France a few weeks ago (ex-police) and he had one of those flip out (steel) battons and I asked him where they normally like to hit. He said the upper arm or the side of the thigh. He explained that the hit numbed the body down a whole side and people normally fell over immediately cause of this and that it puts a strain on the heart cause of the paralysis. Don't claim to be an expert just passing on what I've been told.

[Renton 21040]

I don't think he was in the demo, just on his way home from work.

 

 

I;ve read that and accept it which makes the way he walks in front of them more strange - I'd stop short of "asking for it" but definitely weird nontheless.

 

Millwall and England fan, maybe he's used to being confrontational with the police?

 

And no, I'm not condoning what happened before anyone starts.

[Park Life 71]

The demonstrators seem to want it both ways. I.e. do what they want yet pushing someone who wouldn't get out the way is terrible. Echo NJS's comments about the police but the bloke knew what he was doing. Not saying he deserved his fate before someone levels that at me but he was clearly a heart attack waiting to happen.

 

I don't think he was in the demo, just on his way home from work.

Irrespective of that it's the demonstrators arguing his case. Not saying the policeman was in the right because he clearly wasn't. To say he was just walking down the street as Rob suggests is bollocks though. He was being what I suppose you'd call 'mildly provocative'.

 

What does it matter who's arguing his case? He was more or less a bystander who is now dead.

[Renton 21040]

Tragedy basically. Batton hits to the side of the body cause a lot more damage than people realise and can cause paralysis for a few mins on one side of the body, putting a great strain on the heart.

 

Can you clarify what you mean by that, from a medical perspective? It sounds like nonsense.

 

 

I was with a body guard in France a few weeks ago (ex-police) and he had one of those flip out (steel) battons and I asked him where they normally like to hit. He said the upper arm or the side of the thigh. He explained that the hit numbed the body down a whole side and people normally fell over immediately cause of this and that it puts a strain on the heart cause of the paralysis. Don't claim to be an expert just passing on what I've been told.

 

I think you've been told a bunch of cobblers Parky, especially regarding the heart. It would certainly be a stressful situation, but that's about it. My guess is this blokes number was nearly up any way, he would have stood a better chance if he had suffered a heart attack somewhere with better medical access though.

[Guest alex]

The demonstrators seem to want it both ways. I.e. do what they want yet pushing someone who wouldn't get out the way is terrible. Echo NJS's comments about the police but the bloke knew what he was doing. Not saying he deserved his fate before someone levels that at me but he was clearly a heart attack waiting to happen.

 

I don't think he was in the demo, just on his way home from work.

Irrespective of that it's the demonstrators arguing his case. Not saying the policeman was in the right because he clearly wasn't. To say he was just walking down the street as Rob suggests is bollocks though. He was being what I suppose you'd call 'mildly provocative'.

 

What does it matter who's arguing his case? He was more or less a bystander who is now dead.

It matters who is arguing his case in regard to the bit about demonstrators (or to be more specific - some of them) wanting it both ways. That's all.

[Guest alex]

Tragedy basically. Batton hits to the side of the body cause a lot more damage than people realise and can cause paralysis for a few mins on one side of the body, putting a great strain on the heart.

 

Can you clarify what you mean by that, from a medical perspective? It sounds like nonsense.

 

 

I was with a body guard in France a few weeks ago (ex-police) and he had one of those flip out (steel) battons and I asked him where they normally like to hit. He said the upper arm or the side of the thigh. He explained that the hit numbed the body down a whole side and people normally fell over immediately cause of this and that it puts a strain on the heart cause of the paralysis. Don't claim to be an expert just passing on what I've been told.

 

I think you've been told a bunch of cobblers Parky, especially regarding the heart. It would certainly be a stressful situation, but that's about it. My guess is this blokes number was nearly up any way, he would have stood a better chance if he had suffered a heart attack somewhere with better medical access though.

Assuming it happened

[Park Life 71]

Tragedy basically. Batton hits to the side of the body cause a lot more damage than people realise and can cause paralysis for a few mins on one side of the body, putting a great strain on the heart.

 

Can you clarify what you mean by that, from a medical perspective? It sounds like nonsense.

 

 

I was with a body guard in France a few weeks ago (ex-police) and he had one of those flip out (steel) battons and I asked him where they normally like to hit. He said the upper arm or the side of the thigh. He explained that the hit numbed the body down a whole side and people normally fell over immediately cause of this and that it puts a strain on the heart cause of the paralysis. Don't claim to be an expert just passing on what I've been told.

 

I think you've been told a bunch of cobblers Parky, especially regarding the heart. It would certainly be a stressful situation, but that's about it. My guess is this blokes number was nearly up any way, he would have stood a better chance if he had suffered a heart attack somewhere with better medical access though.

 

Oh I agree on that bit, looks like he was seriously unfit probably with a dodgy ticker.

[Park Life 71]

The demonstrators seem to want it both ways. I.e. do what they want yet pushing someone who wouldn't get out the way is terrible. Echo NJS's comments about the police but the bloke knew what he was doing. Not saying he deserved his fate before someone levels that at me but he was clearly a heart attack waiting to happen.

 

I don't think he was in the demo, just on his way home from work.

Irrespective of that it's the demonstrators arguing his case. Not saying the policeman was in the right because he clearly wasn't. To say he was just walking down the street as Rob suggests is bollocks though. He was being what I suppose you'd call 'mildly provocative'.

 

What does it matter who's arguing his case? He was more or less a bystander who is now dead.

It matters who is arguing his case in regard to the bit about demonstrators (or to be more specific - some of them) wanting it both ways. That's all.

 

I think it's his family arguing the case now - is it not?

 

I hope they get compensation as well.

[Guest alex]

The demonstrators seem to want it both ways. I.e. do what they want yet pushing someone who wouldn't get out the way is terrible. Echo NJS's comments about the police but the bloke knew what he was doing. Not saying he deserved his fate before someone levels that at me but he was clearly a heart attack waiting to happen.

 

I don't think he was in the demo, just on his way home from work.

Irrespective of that it's the demonstrators arguing his case. Not saying the policeman was in the right because he clearly wasn't. To say he was just walking down the street as Rob suggests is bollocks though. He was being what I suppose you'd call 'mildly provocative'.

 

What does it matter who's arguing his case? He was more or less a bystander who is now dead.

It matters who is arguing his case in regard to the bit about demonstrators (or to be more specific - some of them) wanting it both ways. That's all.

 

I think it's his family arguing the case now - is it not?

 

I hope they get compensation as well.

I was just going off the article. Not really the main issue anyway, more me taking issue with the fact the protestors behaved like pricks then wanted to be treated with kid gloves. Mainly because they're little Tarquins and Isabellas who only have to deal with the police when they're going through a rebellious gap year phase before trying to get a job with the banks they were chucking bricks at 18 months earlier. You know the type

Edited April 8, 2009 by alex

[NJS 4355]

One parallel it does have with Menezes is that the Met haven't learned that smearing people they've "killed" as a PR exercise comes back to bite them on the arse - they really are fucking stupid.

[Guest alex]

One parallel it does have with Menezes is that the Met haven't learned that smearing people they've "killed" as a PR exercise comes back to bite them on the arse - they really are fucking stupid.

No wonder even they have concerns about the amount of CCTV in the UK.