The F1 2009 thread

[Toonraider 0]

Absolutely shocking. I felt sick as I watched as I realised right away he wasnt moving. Just heard he's had surgery because of a fractured skull but that he's stable. He was apparently talking fine though when he got to hospital, so hopefully he'll be ok. How unlucky was he for that torsion bar from Rubens car to hit him

 

What an odd qualifying session, I had to laugh at Alonso asking other drivers, mechanics and even the cameraman if he had pole Did you hear Jenson when Alonso told him his time?? 'Fuckinghell' !!

[Ketsbaia 0]

To have young Henry Surtees die from such an incident was unlucky but Massa to have a similar accident within the same week is not only freaky but worrying. I'm not superstitious in any way but motor racing incidents always seem to come along in twos (Roland and Ayrton).

 

People forget motor racing is dangerous. The improvements in F1 especially have been so drastic that a lot of people forget injury and death is a real hazard rather than just a nightmare. There have been so many crashes, such as Kubica in Canada, Hakkinen/Coulthard & Wurz in Oz, that could've seen a fatality but thanks to people like Sir Jackie Stewart, Michael Schumacher, David Coulthard etc. the sport is much safer. That's not top say it's devoid of death but the hard work that has went into F1 since Roland's and Senna's death needs to be commended.

 

I hope Felipe Baby is fine. Fingers crossed we'll see him again this season.

[Craig 6670]

Absolutely stunned at what happened to Felipe - we've said for years that debris is going to cause some damage to a driver and it seemingly has.

 

What's concerning is that the hospital are not exactly echoing the teams positive vibes. They're not only talking about a fracture to the forehead, they're also talking of a fracture at the base of the skull - the cause of death of Senna, Ratzenberger, Dale Earnhardt, Greg Moore and other racing drivers over the years. What's more, they're suggesting he's by no means out of the woods yet.

 

Massa has been a very lucky boy not to have been killed outright - I hope he manages to make a full recovery from this as he's one of the better people in the sport. All the best Felipe.

[Craig 6670]

He's suffered eye damage according to breaking news. I fear this might be the end of Felipe's racing career

 

So near yet so far from the world championship last season as well.

[Tom 14011]

Get well Massa!

 

What a freak accident btw!

[JawD 99]

He's suffered eye damage according to breaking news. I fear this might be the end of Felipe's racing career

 

So near yet so far from the world championship last season as well.

 

Yeah me also. I really hope he pulls through ok, which I suspect he will, but whether he can recover enough to race again is another matter. Shocking injury. But, I suppose thats the sport they are in and the potential risks are huge.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

To have young Henry Surtees die from such an incident was unlucky but Massa to have a similar accident within the same week is not only freaky but worrying. I'm not superstitious in any way but motor racing incidents always seem to come along in twos (Roland and Ayrton).

 

People forget motor racing is dangerous. The improvements in F1 especially have been so drastic that a lot of people forget injury and death is a real hazard rather than just a nightmare. There have been so many crashes, such as Kubica in Canada, Hakkinen/Coulthard & Wurz in Oz, that could've seen a fatality but thanks to people like Sir Jackie Stewart, Michael Schumacher, David Coulthard etc. the sport is much safer. That's not top say it's devoid of death but the hard work that has went into F1 since Roland's and Senna's death needs to be commended.

 

I hope Felipe Baby is fine. Fingers crossed we'll see him again this season.

The same thing crossed my mind about things happening in twos.

 

I find it difficult to take Jackie Stewart seriously as some sort of safety crusader btw. He was perfectly happy to keep driving past and pick up the points as Roger Williamson burned to death in his car at Zandvoort even though David Purley repeatedly tried to flag him (and plenty of other drivers) down.

 

I hope Felipe makes a full recovery, particularly as his wife is five months pregnant, but the news about the eye injury doesn't sound good for his racing career.

[Ketsbaia 0]

To have young Henry Surtees die from such an incident was unlucky but Massa to have a similar accident within the same week is not only freaky but worrying. I'm not superstitious in any way but motor racing incidents always seem to come along in twos (Roland and Ayrton).

 

People forget motor racing is dangerous. The improvements in F1 especially have been so drastic that a lot of people forget injury and death is a real hazard rather than just a nightmare. There have been so many crashes, such as Kubica in Canada, Hakkinen/Coulthard & Wurz in Oz, that could've seen a fatality but thanks to people like Sir Jackie Stewart, Michael Schumacher, David Coulthard etc. the sport is much safer. That's not top say it's devoid of death but the hard work that has went into F1 since Roland's and Senna's death needs to be commended.

 

I hope Felipe Baby is fine. Fingers crossed we'll see him again this season.

The same thing crossed my mind about things happening in twos.

 

I find it difficult to take Jackie Stewart seriously as some sort of safety crusader btw. He was perfectly happy to keep driving past and pick up the points as Roger Williamson burned to death in his car at Zandvoort even though David Purley repeatedly tried to flag him (and plenty of other drivers) down.

 

I hope Felipe makes a full recovery, particularly as his wife is five months pregnant, but the news about the eye injury doesn't sound good for his racing career.

 

The Williamson incident was tragic and i'm sure in hindsight the other drivers would've stopped had the known the situation fully. Haven't a lot of people, from the stewards to the drivers, said they thought it was Purley's car alight hence the reason the race wasn't stopped?

 

Regardless of what you think about him for that incident alone he did do a lot of good.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

To have young Henry Surtees die from such an incident was unlucky but Massa to have a similar accident within the same week is not only freaky but worrying. I'm not superstitious in any way but motor racing incidents always seem to come along in twos (Roland and Ayrton).

 

People forget motor racing is dangerous. The improvements in F1 especially have been so drastic that a lot of people forget injury and death is a real hazard rather than just a nightmare. There have been so many crashes, such as Kubica in Canada, Hakkinen/Coulthard & Wurz in Oz, that could've seen a fatality but thanks to people like Sir Jackie Stewart, Michael Schumacher, David Coulthard etc. the sport is much safer. That's not top say it's devoid of death but the hard work that has went into F1 since Roland's and Senna's death needs to be commended.

 

I hope Felipe Baby is fine. Fingers crossed we'll see him again this season.

The same thing crossed my mind about things happening in twos.

 

I find it difficult to take Jackie Stewart seriously as some sort of safety crusader btw. He was perfectly happy to keep driving past and pick up the points as Roger Williamson burned to death in his car at Zandvoort even though David Purley repeatedly tried to flag him (and plenty of other drivers) down.

 

I hope Felipe makes a full recovery, particularly as his wife is five months pregnant, but the news about the eye injury doesn't sound good for his racing career.

 

The Williamson incident was tragic and i'm sure in hindsight the other drivers would've stopped had the known the situation fully. Haven't a lot of people, from the stewards to the drivers, said they thought it was Purley's car alight hence the reason the race wasn't stopped?

 

Regardless of what you think about him for that incident alone he did do a lot of good.

I've heard the excuses that drivers thought it was Purley's car that was burning, but look at his actions, why would he be behaving that way if it was his car?

 

Anyway, even if it might be irrational, I don't like Stewart, never have.

[Craig 6670]

 

Aside from the obvious, the scary thing this picture highlights is how much damage inanimate objects can cause at high speed.

 

You then compare it to this image which is Senna's helmet after his fatal crash at Imola in 1994 where his wheel hit him and a piece of suspension arm still attached to the wheel pierced the helmet and his skull.

 

 

There were rumours abound that when the first marshalls got to Senna, they found his helmet filled with blood so much so they could barely see his face - something that at the time, I thought was dramatic probably through Chinese Whispers....

 

Now I'm not so sure. Photos of Senna before and after his helmet do apparently exist (taken by Angelo Orsi, picture editor of Autosprint magazine) and have been seen by his family though they're never likely to see the light of day and are said to be held within a safe at the publishing headquarters of Autosprint in Italy.

[Ketsbaia 0]

 

Aside from the obvious, the scary thing this picture highlights is how much damage inanimate objects can cause at high speed.

 

You then compare it to this image which is Senna's helmet after his fatal crash at Imola in 1994 where his wheel hit him and a piece of suspension arm still attached to the wheel pierced the helmet and his skull.

 

 

There were rumours abound that when the first marshalls got to Senna, they found his helmet filled with blood so much so they could barely see his face - something that at the time, I thought was dramatic probably through Chinese Whispers....

 

Now I'm not so sure. Photos of Senna before and after his helmet do apparently exist (taken by Angelo Orsi, picture editor of Autosprint magazine) and have been seen by his family though they're never likely to see the light of day and are said to be held within a safe at the publishing headquarters of Autosprint in Italy.

 

There was a lot of blood around the scene of the accident afterwards. There was a video of some foreign coverage (may have been Eurosport actually) on YouTube I saw a year or two ago which spent much more time broadcasting pictures of the doctors and stewards trying to save Senna than Sky did and the amount of claret was really unnerving.

[Craig 6670]

Yep, I've seen that clip too Matt - looks extremely bad - to the point when some of the commentators thought it was oil leaked from the car at first.

 

Even so, is now the point where they have to consider that it's no longer safe to continue with open cockpit racing? I mean it's only like that because it's been like that since the dawn of F1 but christ, they had engines in the front up until a point to. What's to stop them putting some sort of perspex screen in place to protect the drivers from this type of incident? Doesn't have to be a full enclosure, just something capable of deflecting debris.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Yep, I've seen that clip too Matt - looks extremely bad - to the point when some of the commentators thought it was oil leaked from the car at first.

 

Even so, is now the point where they have to consider that it's no longer safe to continue with open cockpit racing? I mean it's only like that because it's been like that since the dawn of F1 but christ, they had engines in the front up until a point to. What's to stop them putting some sort of perspex screen in place to protect the drivers from this type of incident? Doesn't have to be a full enclosure, just something capable of deflecting debris.

Rubens was asked about this and he had reservations, saying peripheral visibility was already marginal. I don't really see how a polycarbonate (the stuff bullet-proof screens are made from) canopy, like fighter jets have, would restrict visibility. Would this potentially be more dangerous if a car turned over though, in terms of hindering a drivers exit?

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

The latest from Maurice Hamilton:

Felipe Massa was awake and talking to his family last night but his career as a racing driver after the surgeon who operated on the Brazilian revealed he damaged his left eye in a freak accident during qualifying for Sunday's Hungarian grand prix.

 

Professor Robert Veres, who operated on Massa's skull fracture, has ruled the Brazilian out for the rest of the Formula One season and said the driver's long-term future was uncertain. "He has suffered some damage to the eye. We don't know if he'll be able to race again," said Veres. "It's too early to say about his future. We don't know the extent of the damage. Without an operation it's hard to evaluate its function."

 

Veres confirmed that Massa had been sedated "to protect his brain", which had experienced swelling, although the 28-year-old was brought out of an artificial coma and taken off a respirator by doctors at the AEK military hospital in Budapest this afternoon. "His condition has improved significantly over the past 24 hours and he remains stable," said Lajos Zsiros, the chief surgeon of Hungary's defence forces. If his vision is impaired, however, Massa's will not be able to race again for Ferrari or anyone else.

 

Ferrari's president, Luca di Montezemolo, visited Massa today and insisted no immediate decisions would be taken over the team's driver line-up for the rest of the season. "Our first priority is Felipe's recovery, Felipe's progress and so on," said Montezemolo. There is a four-week break before the European grand prix in Valencia and Ferrari have their test driver, Marc Gene, available as a substitute. The 35-year-old Spaniard has race experience with Minardi and as a stand-in at Williams when he finished fifth in the 2003 Italian grand prix.

 

Before Massa's accident, Fernando Alonso had been linked with a move from Renault to Ferrari for 2010 and rumours have circulated that Renault might do a deal with Ferrari to allow the former world champion to switch teams for his home grand prix in Valencia on 23 August. Renault have been suspended after allowing Alonso to take to the track with a loose wheel, which subsequently came off, after a pit stop in Hungary. Renault have protested against the decision and may race under appeal pending the hearing.

 

Can't see Renault releasing Alonso early, but it's more likely than the story in the Times that Schumi might come back.

[Craig 6670]

Odd that Hamilton says he's talking when the official hospital press releases says he's communication through arm and leg movement but not speech.

 

The more this goes on, the more I think it's like Wendlinger's situation. He'll come back, be nowhere near what he was and then disappear out of motorsport completely. Shame, he's one of the better guys on the track.

 

Renault will not be suspended - they'll race under appeal and no, I can't see them allow Alonso to jump ship unless he already has his 2010 contract with them. Schumacher?? Not a chance. How about Bourdais? He's used to driving a Ferrari engined car!

 

There's a name which has entered my head - someone who's a former WDC who's made noises that he wants to come back to the sport. Hope he doesn't dare tarnish his old man's name any further by driving for the team that his dad was a legend for though.

 

Don't think it'll be Gene either although Ferrari aren't really in the hunt for either championship this season so it's not like they desperately need a front runner.

 

I wonder if Ferrari are as keen to allow Kimi to do the rally now? Be a bastard if they both do themselves an injury this season.

[Craig 6670]

Yep, I've seen that clip too Matt - looks extremely bad - to the point when some of the commentators thought it was oil leaked from the car at first.

 

Even so, is now the point where they have to consider that it's no longer safe to continue with open cockpit racing? I mean it's only like that because it's been like that since the dawn of F1 but christ, they had engines in the front up until a point to. What's to stop them putting some sort of perspex screen in place to protect the drivers from this type of incident? Doesn't have to be a full enclosure, just something capable of deflecting debris.

Rubens was asked about this and he had reservations, saying peripheral visibility was already marginal. I don't really see how a polycarbonate (the stuff bullet-proof screens are made from) canopy, like fighter jets have, would restrict visibility. Would this potentially be more dangerous if a car turned over though, in terms of hindering a drivers exit?

 

They can surely trial it at least. Then they'll know about any issues with peripheral vision. Safety is paramount IMO. If this spring had been 4 inches lower when it came into contact with Felipe, it'd have hit him in the neck below the helmet line, quite definitely breaking his neck with fatal consequences and I dare say may even have caused a decapition.

 

Rubens said it himself. Imola (Ratzenberger & Senna) was a sign that F1 had to act upon. What's happened to Henry Surtess and Massa must also be acted upon. If not, and we lose yet another racer to a similar incident, serious questions will have to be asked.

[Ketsbaia 0]

I would love Schumacher to come back, mainly because i'm a fan boy but also because i've no doubt in my mind he'd still be competitive. I doubt it'll happen, I know Willi Weber has said it wont, but you never know in F1. Four weeks is a very long time and knowing that the drive is his if he wants it, he could just go out and have a bit of fun and having LDM in his ear may sway him.

 

Badoer and Gene don't stand a chance. They're decent test drivers but neither will be rated highly enough to take a spot on the grid. IIRC Badoer was the test driver in '99 and wasn't even considered when Schumi broke his leg. Bourdais has been mentioned since he, like Massa, is managed by Nicholas Todt but he'd probably be even worse than the test drivers

 

There isn't a hope in hell that Renault will release Alonso early either. Both teams are in direct competition this year and if they're serious about getting rid of Piquet they wont want to lose Fernando either. Can you imagine them having a totally new driver line up at Valencia (if they race)?

 

I hope Ferrari fish someone out of that pool of washed up, 30+ drivers simply for the craic. JV would be fucking hilarious

[Meenzer 15346]

Lauda isn't exactly mincing his words here: http://www.crash.net/f1/news/150448/1/laud...rs_useless.html

 

 

I'd love it to be Badoer, I've an inexplicable soft spot for him after the various indignities he suffered during his F1 career, but I can't really see it - even if it is one of the test drivers, you'd assume Gené would get the nod. Particularly since the race is in Spain...

 

Also, on a Senna-related tangent, I stumbled across this piece recently - might be of interest to some here: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?p=994457

Edited July 27, 2009 by Meenzer

[Tom 14011]

How can an ''inanimate object'' travel at high speeds by the way?

[Craig 6670]

Jacques 'fucking' Villeneuve would be criminal. The bastard needs shooting. If anyone is to come back, please let it be Mika.

 

Meenzer, the article you've linked is lifted from Tom Rubython's book which I've read. A good read, but the bloke has a reputation for over dramatising the events of 01-05-94. He was editor of the official F1 magazine when it first launched and it's first 6 months of feature articles were all on Senna & Imola - when the press turned on him, he gave up and wrote the book instead.

 

Tom - you fucking know what I meant you pedantic sod!

 

Shame it's not just one race - surely Rossi would have had a go?

 

Alex Wurz is another contender

[Tom 14011]

Only messing man

[Toonraider 0]

Jacques 'fucking' Villeneuve would be criminal. The bastard needs shooting. If anyone is to come back, please let it be Mika.

 

Meenzer, the article you've linked is lifted from Tom Rubython's book which I've read. A good read, but the bloke has a reputation for over dramatising the events of 01-05-94. He was editor of the official F1 magazine when it first launched and it's first 6 months of feature articles were all on Senna & Imola - when the press turned on him, he gave up and wrote the book instead.

 

Tom - you fucking know what I meant you pedantic sod!

 

Shame it's not just one race - surely Rossi would have had a go?

 

Alex Wurz is another contender

 

I agree about Villeneuve, let it go man! I'd like Mika back too but cant see that happening. I wonder if Bruno will get a drive?

 

Mentioning about all Motorsports being dangerous..this is my son racing on Sunday... it got so misty during his first race i was getting worried, but after that they had to cancel the meeting.

 

Mendips

Edited July 28, 2009 by Toonraider

[Meenzer 15346]

Mentioning about all Motorsports being dangerous..this is my son racing on Sunday... it got so misty during his first race i was getting worried, but after that they had to cancel the meeting.

 

Mendips

I'd be worried too with a site called Crashmania.

[Ketsbaia 0]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/8172310.stm

 

 

Make it happen Ferrari!

Edited July 28, 2009 by Ketsbaia

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Odd that Hamilton says he's talking when the official hospital press releases says he's communication through arm and leg movement but not speech.

 

The more this goes on, the more I think it's like Wendlinger's situation. He'll come back, be nowhere near what he was and then disappear out of motorsport completely. Shame, he's one of the better guys on the track.

 

Renault will not be suspended - they'll race under appeal and no, I can't see them allow Alonso to jump ship unless he already has his 2010 contract with them. Schumacher?? Not a chance. How about Bourdais? He's used to driving a Ferrari engined car!

 

There's a name which has entered my head - someone who's a former WDC who's made noises that he wants to come back to the sport. Hope he doesn't dare tarnish his old man's name any further by driving for the team that his dad was a legend for though.

 

Don't think it'll be Gene either although Ferrari aren't really in the hunt for either championship this season so it's not like they desperately need a front runner.

 

I wonder if Ferrari are as keen to allow Kimi to do the rally now? Be a bastard if they both do themselves an injury this season.

I know someone fairly high up at Santander and he reckons it's a done deal that Alonso will be driving a Santander-sponsored Ferrari next season and has been for some time.