The F1 2009 thread

[Billy Castell 0]

Right, that makes sense. I didn't think McLaren would leave everything at risk from Mercedes suddenly switching teams. Perhaps the likes of Honda, BMW etc. will be back in F1 by the time McLaren needs new engines, and the transition will be pretty smooth if they start this co-operation prior to the engine being used.

 

I do suspect that the MP4-25 will not be a good as it seems, as a lot of cars that are hyped up don't make it. Look at BMW over 2008 and 2009. 2008=Threatening to gatecrash the McLaren/Ferrari party, spending money on KERS etc. 2009=Shit.

[Toonraider 0]

Eddie Jordan reckons he has inside information proving that Mercedes booted Button out rather than him walking. If so, he's landed on his feet IMO getting a drive at McLaren.

You only have to think back to '96 when Williams ditched Damon Hill despite the fact he won the title. Where did he end up?? Arrows!

 

The only credible reason anyone can consider this being a mistake by Jenson is Lewis Hamilton. If any other driver (including Alonso) was his team-mate next season, everyone would be saying it was a brilliant move by him.

 

And anyway, if the MP4-25 is the monster of a car that everyone is claiming it's going to be, isn't Jenson in the best possible seat to defend his crown?

 

I mentioned that similarity the other day.

[sammynb 3342]

What's the chances of the Toyota engine turning up somewhere. It was always decent for power but their problem was they couldn't build a car to save themselves and they love to make $$$.

[Rob W 0]

but they don't make money out of F1 - only Bernie is allowed to do that (with some crumbs for the team owners and the drivers)

 

That's why all the other major manufacturers have dropped out - it costs too much.

 

The engines (and their development) are essentially a GIFT to the teams in exchange for publicity

[Craig 6670]

What's the chances of the Toyota engine turning up somewhere. It was always decent for power but their problem was they couldn't build a car to save themselves and they love to make $$$.

 

Nah, that one's never going to happen. Japanese culture has a suggestion that if you're not making money, get the fuck out and they've done it across the board tbh.

 

Honda & Toyota out of F1

Kawasaki out of MotoGP

Subaru & Suzuki out of WRC.

 

Toyota have even pulled out of holding the Japanese GP at their own track (Fuji) for 2010 and I'm a little surprised that Honda didn't follow suit with their track (Suzuka).

 

The only time we'll see any Japanese involvement on the constructors side of things will be when they feel it's economically viable to do so.

[Craig 6670]

Michael Schumacher 'will drive for Mercedes F1 in 2010'

 

Michael Schumacher is poised for a sensational return to Formula 1 with the new Mercedes team, according to BBC Sport pundit Eddie Jordan.

 

Mercedes want the seven-time champion as their lead driver after taking over title-winning Brawn, Jordan says.

 

"The possibility is being actively pursued and I believe it is going to happen," said Jordan.

 

Schumacher's spokeswoman Sabine Kehm told BBC Sport a return was "highly unlikely - but never say never".

 

The plan is for Schumacher to be a stop-gap before Mercedes can prise German rising star Sebastian Vettel out of Red Bull.

 

The move would reunite Schumacher with Mercedes GP team boss Ross Brawn, who masterminded all his seven titles at Benetton and Ferrari.

 

The German, who will be 41 in January, had to pull out of a temporary comeback to F1 last year as a replacement for the injured Ferrari driver Felipe Massa because of a neck injury.

 

But Kehm said that while Schumacher had not had any new tests on his neck, it was expected to be healed by the end of the year.

 

Jordan said: "It started with a meeting between Michael, Ross Brawn and Daimler chief executive officer Dieter Zetsche at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

 

"At the moment, it is not possible for Michael to drive for Mercedes because he has a consultancy contract with Ferrari.

 

"But I understand he was due to meet Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo with a view to him being released - and that it will be approved because it is in the interests of F1.

 

"I believe that is being planned at the moment.

 

"I also believe Ross and Michael have spoken in recent times and that Michael likes the idea of driving a Mercedes run by Ross. It's a mouth-watering idea.

 

"Schumacher was bitterly disappointed he didn't get to come back to replace Massa - he's keen to race again. And this is a dream for both parties.

 

"Michael and Mercedes have go way back - he drove for their sportscar team before he raced in F1, and they were responsible for getting him in to F1. They paid the then Jordan team to give him his debut in 1991.

 

"He has won all these titles but never driven in F1 for Mercedes."

 

The Brawn team rose out of the ashes of Honda, which quit F1 in December 2008, and won the drivers' world championship with Jenson Button in 2009, as well as the constructors' title.

 

Mercedes's takeover was announced on Monday, but the team are looking for a lead driver following Button's decision to move to McLaren for 2010.

 

Signing Schumacher would be an ideal way for Mercedes to head off the negative publicity that has arisen from letting the world champion slip through their fingers.

 

A source close to Ferrari says the Italian team have yet to be asked to release Schumacher.

 

Schumacher's contract with the company was changed recently to remove him from any links with the F1 team, for which he was a consultant.

 

He is now an ambassador, consultant and test driver for the company's road car arm.

 

It is understood that during the summer Schumacher explored the idea of driving a third car for Ferrari on an occasional basis, but this is forbidden by F1's rules.

 

Kehm said Schumacher had given her no indication that he wanted to make a full-time return.

 

Vettel, 22, is contracted to drive for Red Bull until the end of 2011 and, while contracts are often broken in F1, Mercedes may not find it easy to buy him out.

 

Red Bull is owned by the soft drinks company's founder Dietrich Mateschitz who, as a billionaire, does not exactly need the money.

 

If the Schumacher deal does not come off, fellow German Nick Heidfeld is considered most likely to get the second Mercedes seat alongside Nico Rosberg, another German, whose contract has been signed but not officially announced.

 

But another possibility for Mercedes might be the highly rated Polish driver Robert Kubica.

 

He has signed for Renault, but the French company is deciding whether to continue in F1, with a decision due before the end of the year.

 

If Renault pulled out, Kubica would be on the market, and he might be an attractive option for Mercedes, who have moved to dismiss widespread claims that they are determined to sign two German drivers by describing their new F1 team as "global".

 

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/8368107.stm

 

I hated Schumacher when he was in the sport, but I'd love it if this move come off. Think it really would spice 2010 up!

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

This would be an even bigger shock than Jenson to McLaren imo. I really can't see him breaking his ambassadorial role with Ferrari. Mind, I couldn't see Button leaving Brawn a week ago.

[Craig 6670]

This would be an even bigger shock than Jenson to McLaren imo. I really can't see him breaking his ambassadorial role with Ferrari. Mind, I couldn't see Button leaving Brawn a week ago.

 

I could never see Brawn & Todt breaking their ties with Ferrari but they did. The fact that Schumacher has recently changed his role with Ferrari, moving away from their F1 setup is very telling IMO. It's not been mentioned but who's to say that Alonso hasn't made noises that he doesn't want Michael around - particularly when you consider the close bond he has with Massa.

 

Schumacher is to Mercedes what Hamilton is to McLaren. They nurtured him from an extremely young age and he was their wonder-kid. Suggestions of a link up in F1 have been there ever since Mercedes appeared on the scene with Sauber back in 1993. The fact that Ross is heading up the team just strengthens that link for me.

 

Moving subjects back to Button, am I the only one who's getting completely fucked off with all the knocks he's been getting recently? This latest one about him being clueless to walk into a team completely built around one man show's people in the sport have short memories. He walked into BAR - a team built solely around Jacques Villeneuve back in 2003 with JFV sounding off about how he was going to kick Jenson's arse. Most of the media believed him too yet it was JB who quietly and carefully set about making himself the no.1 driver. Who's to say he can't repeat the fact at McLaren?

 

As for 'why the hell has he walked out of a successful team into one where he might not deliver as much', think back to 1996 and a certain Michael Schumacher leaving the class-leading Benetton team for a poorly under-performing Ferrari. Why?? Because the challenge drove him on.

 

Go on Jenson - prove 'em all wrong!

[Meenzer 15347]

He walked into BAR - a team built solely around Jacques Villeneuve back in 2003 with JFV sounding off about how he was going to kick Jenson's arse. Most of the media believed him too yet it was JB who quietly and carefully set about making himself the no.1 driver. Who's to say he can't repeat the fact at McLaren?

Because Hamilton is actually good.

[Craig 6670]

I agree with you whole-heartedly

[Craig 6670]

This pic is doing the rounds.... Don't know if it's a true image or a mock up.

 

[Rob W 0]

what is it?

 

"Man reduced to advertising hoarding"???????

[Craig 6670]

With all the 'Hamilton will kick Button's arse' comments flying around the media and general public at the moment, I'd clean forgotten about the fundamental rule change for 2010 - refuelling.

 

This will play into the hands of those who can preserve their tyres more - there's no-one on the grid as good as Button for that. Maybe it will be closer than people imagine?

 

New regulations won’t put brakes on Jenson Button

 

A BAN on refuelling in Formula One next season is likely to favour Jenson Button over new teammate Lewis Hamilton.

 

Most F1 paddock observers believe Button’s move to McLaren is unwise and that he will be trounced by Hamilton, but the rule change has implications that suit Button’s driving style and work against Hamilton’s.

 

The pair have different techniques. Button derives his speed from minimising his steering inputs and carrying as much momentum into corners as possible, maximising the car’s grip, upsetting it as little as possible. It progressively loads up the tyres through the corner, taking less energy out of them, letting them perform well for longer. It also demands a supremely stable car. Any unpredictability, especially from the rear of the car, will prevent him being able to commit to the high entry speeds that are so crucial to making his style work effectively.

 

Hamilton almost relishes some instability. He tends to use a measure of rear-end slide to hurry the car’s direction change. It requires far more steering correction, which tends to bring a loss of momentum. Hamilton’s uncanny balance lets him have the car on a knife edge and he usually gains more time from the quicker direction change than he loses from the loss of momentum. It is particularly effective into slow and medium speed corners, where the car’s aerodynamic downforce isn’t pressing the tyres so hard into the surface.

 

However, it introduces spikier loadings into the rear tyres, with sudden cornering peaks followed by troughs as the adhesion limit is exceeded. This takes the energy out of those tyres quicker than Button’s smoother style.

 

For 2010, refuelling is banned for the first time in 17 seasons. Enough fuel for the race — typically around 150kg — will cost up to five seconds a lap. It also imposes potentially damaging loads on the tyres.

 

Although pit stops to change tyres are still permitted, a stop typically costs about 25-30 seconds. A driver who can make his tyres last longer will be much faster in the later stages of the race. If he can manage not to lose too much time he should be in good shape to overhaul the more aggressive driver later. Hamilton’s style also demands a car with a very grippy front so the rear will pivot around the front to give the rear slide that helps his direction change. For 2010 the regulations have reduced the width of the front tyres and thereby their grip, so potentially further compromising his natural style. Button’s less abrupt style equalises the loadings between front and rear more effectively and so he should be less affected by this change.

 

The reduced front tyre size also puts a greater proportion of the car’s total grip at the rear, so further taming the sort of rear instability that Button finds difficult to deal with. There are yet more advantages to Button’s style; the smoother trajectory enables him to be less busy with the throttle pedal, improving his fuel economy. If he’s using less fuel, his car can be lighter at the start than Hamilton’s. It won’t be by much but at this level every tiny difference can be critical.

 

The mercurial Hamilton is adaptable as well as intelligent enough to understand the revised regulations — but the changes play towards the reigning champion’s strengths.

 

Source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/for...icle6926826.ece

[Billy Castell 0]

Who knows, maybe Button's presence will make Lewis a smoother driver as he watches a driver famed for such a driving style in the same car. The contrasting styles of the two in the same car will be another interesting factor to look out for. However, I'm pretty fucked off with all the twatting about with the British GP. I bet Silverstone is being held up because that greedy Andy Warhol mini-me wants a bigger bung than Bahrain gave him. I bet Monza never has constant hassle from Bernie the midget.

 

Nico Rosberg has been confirmed as a Mercedes (formerly Brawn) driver according to Radio 5.

[Craig 6670]

Nico Rosberg has been confirmed as a Mercedes (formerly Brawn) driver according to Radio 5.

 

Yep - with no mention of who the second driver is going to be. If it was Heidfeld then why not say so now?

 

Longer this goes on, the more I think it's Schumacher. Haug has promised a 'surprise' in the driver line-up and lets face it, we all knew long before the season ended that Rosberg was going to Brawn / Mercedes.

 

It won't be Raikkonen - he's already decided on the cash instead. My big worry is JFV though - please god no!

[Billy Castell 0]

JFV? Is that Jaques fucking Villeneurve or Jos fucking Verstappen ?

 

I agree, the longer it isn't confirmed, the more likely it is Michael Schumacher. Let the hype and rumours build, and then ta-da he appears as they unveil and test their new car.

[Craig 6670]

JFV? Is that Jaques fucking Villeneurve or Jos fucking Verstappen ?

 

I was referring to the Canadian wankstain who tarnishes his old man's great name...

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

This pic is doing the rounds.... Don't know if it's a true image or a mock up.

 

The clue is he's holding Raikkonen's helmet.

[Craig 6670]

The thought did cross my mind but then again Fernando hasn't been adverse to changing his design has he? Nor has Kimi for that matter.

 

I'm with Brundle on this one, a drivers helmet design is sacroligious - it should remain as it is throughout his career. The likes of Alonso, Raikkonen, Heidfeld, Trulli & Fisichella have changed their designs multiple times - even Button got in on it last season.

 

We can thank Irvine for this one.

[Ketsbaia 0]

The thought did cross my mind but then again Fernando hasn't been adverse to changing his design has he? Nor has Kimi for that matter.

 

I'm with Brundle on this one, a drivers helmet design is sacroligious - it should remain as it is throughout his career. The likes of Alonso, Raikkonen, Heidfeld, Trulli & Fisichella have changed their designs multiple times - even Button got in on it last season.

 

We can thank Irvine for this one.

 

Schumacher and his shiney helmet

[Craig 6670]

The thought did cross my mind but then again Fernando hasn't been adverse to changing his design has he? Nor has Kimi for that matter.

 

I'm with Brundle on this one, a drivers helmet design is sacroligious - it should remain as it is throughout his career. The likes of Alonso, Raikkonen, Heidfeld, Trulli & Fisichella have changed their designs multiple times - even Button got in on it last season.

 

We can thank Irvine for this one.

 

Schumacher and his shiney helmet

 

Wasn't that for the race in '98 in Japan where if he won, he was World Champion? Duly qualified on pole and then stalled on the grid!

[Ketsbaia 0]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80350

 

BMW has agreed to sell its Formula 1 team back to Peter Sauber, on condition that the team receives an entry for 2010, after announcing it's original sale to Qadbak Investment Ltd. will not be completed.

 

The German car maker announced earlier this year it was pulling out of Formula 1, but said it had agreed a deal with Swiss company Qadbak, who was to run the team in the future.

 

BMW said on Friday however that the Qadbak deal would not be completed.

 

Instead, the car maker has sold the team back to Peter Sauber, who founded the team in 1993 and ran it until BMW bought it four years ago.

 

"We are very happy with this solution," said Dr Klaus Draeger, Member of the Board of Management of BMW AG. "This fulfils the most important requirement for a successful future for the team.

 

"Our relationship with Peter Sauber has always been excellent and marked by absolute respect. We would like to express our thanks to Peter Sauber and the whole team for the excellent cooperation during the recent four years."

 

Sauber added: "I am very relieved that we have found this solution. It means we can keep the Hinwil location and the majority of workplaces. I am convinced that the new team has a very good future in Formula One, whose current transformation with new framework conditions will benefit the private teams.

 

"Our staff here are highly competent and motivated, and I look forward to taking on this new challenge together with them. I would like to thank BMW for four shared years that have in the main been very successful."

 

A further agreement with Sauber proposes personnel cuts from the current level of 388 to around 250 employees.

 

The future of the team in Formula 1 remains unclear, however, as the FIA is yet to confirm its grid slot for 2010.

 

Sauber

[Craig 6670]

Thank god for that - at least there'll be some stability there

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

VW considering F1 engine supply

 

Volkswagen is seriously evaluating a move into Formula 1 as an engine supplier from 2012, when new power unit regulations due to be introduced could make the sport attractive enough for the German car maker to get involved.

 

Although F1 has been rocked by the withdrawal of three manufacturers in the last 12 months - with Honda, BMW and Toyota all quitting the sport - the Volkswagen Group believes that the sport is actually becoming more attractive with the way rules are heading.

 

The German car manufacturer's representative Hans-Joachim Stuck says his company would not be interested in becoming a partner with a team - as was rumoured several years ago when it was linked with a deal to buy into Red Bull Racing - but would be up for supplying engines.

 

However, Stuck has made it clear that the possibility to supply power units to a number of outfits, especially if there was a 'world engine', would be enough to attract Volkswagen into F1.

 

"If you're the world's largest manufacturer is natural that we're thinking about [Formula 1], but not before 2012," Stuck told AUTOSPORT about Volkswagen's F1 ambitions.

 

"We're looking for innovative things, and Formula 1 is the pinnacle of motorsport. Two years ago there was some talk that Volkswagen is going to buy the Red Bull F1 team, which we didn't need to buy. Why should we stick with one team if we can give our engines to more teams?

 

"If you buy Red Bull and Adrian Newey wants to go flying or fishing, the team is not successful any more. Look at BMW. They bought this multi-million dollar wind tunnel and a supercomputer and they now close the doors. Building an engine and providing it to a team is the best way."

 

Stuck claims Formula 1's return to expanded grids, and low-cost regulations, has put the sport firmly on Volkswagen's radar.

 

"Now it's amazing; Formula 1 goes the right way," said Stuck. "Many manufacturers have pulled out, which I think is a great deal, because we have manufacturers that we don't know for how long they will do it.

 

"They should become engine manufacturers and then lease the engine, sell the engine or give it to somebody. Then you lose all the hassle with teams, wind tunnels, engineers, you know.

 

"It's like Formula 1 in my days. We had March, we had Lotus, and we had Ford engines. Then Renault came in as engine manufacturer, with a formidable engine. This was perfect.

 

"I followed Formula 1 for the last seven years with BMW and I always asked myself on the grid, with only 20 cars, what if we could have 30 cars? Now we're getting back to this.

 

"We have three more teams next year, 26 cars, and by having a global engine, which is good in cost and reliable, we can have 30 cars on the grid."

 

The Volkswagen Group has recently enjoyed great success in racing with its different brands.

 

Besides its multiple Le Mans wins with Audi, its WTCC titles with Seat in the past two years and its Dakar victory this year, Volkswagen also powered drivers with VW engines to the British and German F3 titles this, rounding out the season with victory in last weekend's Macau Grand Prix.

 

Good news if it comes off.

[Billy Castell 0]

Interesting to see which part of the company gets the name on the engine if this comes off. Bugatti, VW, Lambo, Audi all possible. If they wanted to cause a stir I suppose it could be a Seat or Skoda engine. Imagine a Skoda powered team winning a race!