Chopra answers his critics

[Renton 21615]

I don't think Robert was sold because he couldn't tackle etc. I think it was more to do with his perceived inconsistency. One thing I will say though is that while under Souness everybody was meant to be given a clean slate, the manager had it in for Robert (and Bellamy) from the start. However, while I liked Bellamy, I was one of the ones who wasn't too bothered about seeing the back of Laurent.

50474[/snapback]

 

I agree with that, and thought both were immense assets to our side. I bet he would have it in for Luque as well if he hadn't signed him himself. Doesn't seem like a proper Souness player to me.

 

Btw aren't Robert and Bellamy doing quite well at their new clubs?

[Howaythelads 0]

I don't think Robert was sold because he couldn't tackle etc. I think it was more to do with his perceived inconsistency. One thing I will say though is that while under Souness everybody was meant to be given a clean slate, the manager had it in for Robert (and Bellamy) from the start. However, while I liked Bellamy, I was one of the ones who wasn't too bothered about seeing the back of Laurent.

50474[/snapback]

 

I agree with that, and thought both were immense assets to our side. I bet he would have it in for Luque as well if he hadn't signed him himself. Doesn't seem like a proper Souness player to me.

 

Btw aren't Robert and Bellamy doing quite well at their new clubs?

50477[/snapback]

I've no idea, as I don't follow their respective clubs. What I do know is that they were both excellent players for us and were booted out with no replacements coming in.

 

This is to the detriment of the club, as shown today with the financial implications of no European football showing up pretty clearly.

[Guest alex]

Given that Robert totally divided fans opinion I don't think anyone can say for definite that he was an excellent (or poor) player for the club. You made a good point though (yesterday I think) that Robert and Bellamy were both allowed/made to leave the club at the wrong time.

[Howaythelads 0]

Given that Robert totally divided fans opinion I don't think anyone can say for definite that he was an excellent (or poor) player for the club. You made a good point though (yesterday I think) that Robert and Bellamy were both allowed/made to leave the club at the wrong time.

50598[/snapback]

Alex,

 

I frankly don't care much about divided opinion. The facts are pretty clear regarding goals scored and created by both Bellamy and Robert. It's indisputable, really and shows them both to be excellent players for the club.

 

People can say they don't rate Robert because he doesn't tackle and I won't argue, but if you discard a player who creates and scores more than your other midfield players combined, you have to get a suitable replacement in first. I predicted goals would be hard to come by and I don't see any evidence showing me to be incorrect on that one.

 

I'll add that it's ridiculous that people now slag Bellamy, given that they had nowt bad to say about him when he was here. Now he's a gobshite according to many. Talk about being taken in by propaganda, or what? Both of these players are quality PL players, neither has been replaced as far as I can see. The club has suffered as a result.

[Guest alex]

It's been done to death but OPTA stats don't tell the full story. There's plenty of people I know who didn't rate Robert who (in my opinion) know their football. The same people admired flair players. Bellamy is a total different kettle of fish, everyone rated him while he was at the club.

[Shearergol 0]

I don't think Robert was sold because he couldn't tackle etc. I think it was more to do with his perceived inconsistency. One thing I will say though is that while under Souness everybody was meant to be given a clean slate, the manager had it in for Robert (and Bellamy) from the start. However, while I liked Bellamy, I was one of the ones who wasn't too bothered about seeing the back of Laurent.

50474[/snapback]

 

I agree with that, and thought both were immense assets to our side. I bet he would have it in for Luque as well if he hadn't signed him himself. Doesn't seem like a proper Souness player to me.

 

Btw aren't Robert and Bellamy doing quite well at their new clubs?

50477[/snapback]

I've no idea, as I don't follow their respective clubs. What I do know is that they were both excellent players for us and were booted out with no replacements coming in.

 

This is to the detriment of the club, as shown today with the financial implications of no European football showing up pretty clearly.

50596[/snapback]

 

So now you're saying that Luque isn't a replacement for Bellamy OR Robert?

 

Woah, that's a whole new ball game....

[Howaythelads 0]

I don't think Robert was sold because he couldn't tackle etc. I think it was more to do with his perceived inconsistency. One thing I will say though is that while under Souness everybody was meant to be given a clean slate, the manager had it in for Robert (and Bellamy) from the start. However, while I liked Bellamy, I was one of the ones who wasn't too bothered about seeing the back of Laurent.

50474[/snapback]

 

I agree with that, and thought both were immense assets to our side. I bet he would have it in for Luque as well if he hadn't signed him himself. Doesn't seem like a proper Souness player to me.

 

Btw aren't Robert and Bellamy doing quite well at their new clubs?

50477[/snapback]

I've no idea, as I don't follow their respective clubs. What I do know is that they were both excellent players for us and were booted out with no replacements coming in.

 

This is to the detriment of the club, as shown today with the financial implications of no European football showing up pretty clearly.

50596[/snapback]

 

So now you're saying that Luque isn't a replacement for Bellamy OR Robert?

 

Woah, that's a whole new ball game....

50618[/snapback]

Why would I say Luque is a replacement for Bellamy when it's obvious he isn't?

 

What I've been on about regarding Robert and Bellamy since Mr Souness decided they had to go is that replacements should have been brought in first. They weren't and I neglected to be that specific in my earlier post. That's because I thought it was obvious, it's been said many times in the past by quite a few people. I should have known someone would be pedantic, though. Kind of you and also very predictable of you to oblige.

 

Luque is the player Mr Souness has decided to bring in to replace Robert, but as we can see, Luque doesn't appear fit enough to play many matches, which is something that can't be said of Robert during his time at the club.

[Guest alex]

So HTL, you don't make snap decisions about Luque but you think it's fair to compare the relative fitness records of a player who has been at the club 5 minutes and one who has was here for a few seasons?

[Howaythelads 0]

It's been done to death but OPTA stats don't tell the full story. There's plenty of people I know who didn't rate Robert who (in my opinion) know their football. The same people admired flair players. Bellamy is a total different kettle of fish, everyone rated him while he was at the club.

50609[/snapback]

Aye, sad bastards on here who continually slag him, aren't they?

 

BTW The people you know who didn't rate Robert are all wrong. I know best, as you agreed with earlier. I can also see the lack of goals in the team, I assume you and your mates think our previous attacking threat, that's now almost completely lacking, came from anywhere other than from Robert. That's what dislike of a player does to blinkered people, it stops them seeing the big picture.

[Howaythelads 0]

So HTL, you don't make snap decisions about Luque but you think it's fair to compare the relative fitness records of a player who has been at the club 5 minutes and one who has was here for a few seasons?

50627[/snapback]

Luque has been at the club for more than 5 minutes. Thought I'd point that out.

 

And you're right, I don't make snap decisions.

[Guest alex]

So HTL, you don't make snap decisions about Luque but you think it's fair to compare the relative fitness records of a player who has been at the club 5 minutes and one who has was here for a few seasons?

50627[/snapback]

Luque has been at the club for more than 5 minutes. Thought I'd point that out.

 

And you're right, I don't make snap decisions.

50630[/snapback]

Snap judgement I meant, sorry Dad. You've made a one based on the short time Luque has been here.

[Howaythetoon 0]

Speaking on Revisita De La Liga last week, Luque said he was bought to play left of a three pronged attack with him, Shearer and Owen and that he is a striker.

 

(can't see that working myself)

 

However he did also concede he can play left wide but he's first a striker and has always been one and that he has learned a lot from Shearer about playing centrally and other such things.

 

BTW one of the reasons he signed was Shearer who he says is famous in Spain and highly regarded as a centre-forward.

 

So that's Owen, Parker, Nobby (Shearer rang him when Liverpool were interested and told him to hang on because Newcastle wanted him back) and now Luque. Obviously Souness also played a role as he spoke to them all, outlined his plans and sold the club to them too but you have to say, this bodes well for Shearer's career as a manager, him being able to entice players of such quality.

 

I personally would like to see Luque up top with Owen, he's different, not a conventional forward and since we signed him I must have downloaded all his goals it seems and I can't wait, he looks an awesome player and if he produces the kind of stuff he did in Spain, we'll have done well in capturing him because he looks the part.

 

Those goals against Real Madrid, power, pace, technical ability and cool finishes, outsripping Salgado for pace and power, one of the best full-backs in the game, as if he wasn't there.

 

I've also done a lot of reading up about him and spoken to some Depor fans, he seems to have the right attitude, he loves being involved and wants to score and create and be a big star in the Premiership.

 

Another good sign, he actually saught out the advice of Englishman and well known media man in Spain Chris Robinson (I think that's his name) to get a low down on NUFC, the City and our fans and he was obviously left impressed by what Robinson had to say, saying how passionate we were, what a great footballing City it was and how big a club Newcastle were.

 

That tells me that he's not just here for the money but wants to do well.

 

I think he'll be a big hit on Tyneside I really do because he has what is needing in our League, pace and power and a great left foot. The Depo fans reckon the Premiership is ideal for him and he'll score and create even more because it's much more attack orientated.

[Gemmill 44853]

Re Bellamy and him getting a slagging on here. I thought Bellamy was a good player when he was here and I still think he's a good player now. I also thought he was a total prick as a bloke while he was here and suspect he's still one now, although I'm subjected to less of it.

 

Just to clear things up on that point.

[Guest alex]

It's been done to death but OPTA stats don't tell the full story. There's plenty of people I know who didn't rate Robert who (in my opinion) know their football. The same people admired flair players. Bellamy is a total different kettle of fish, everyone rated him while he was at the club.

50609[/snapback]

Aye, sad bastards on here who continually slag him, aren't they?

 

BTW The people you know who didn't rate Robert are all wrong. I know best, as you agreed with earlier. I can also see the lack of goals in the team, I assume you and your mates think our previous attacking threat, that's now almost completely lacking, came from anywhere other than from Robert. That's what dislike of a player does to blinkered people, it stops them seeing the big picture.

50628[/snapback]

Actually, it's not just my mates it's family members and their mates too. Many of whom have played football to a pretty decent standard. One of them even played for the toon. Anyway, I respect their opinions. They had a lot to say about Robert's contribution and lack of it at times. Obviously, when he was on song he was brilliant. He was dead frustrating though in my view as I thought he played in bursts rather than gave his all for 90 minutes. Maybe he just isn't a natural athlete but, if that is the case, it is still to the detriment of his game.

I know people will argue against this view but I still reckon the fact he's ended up at Pompey says a lot. Nobody at the top clubs were prepared to take a chance of a player who didn't do it on a consistent enough basis.

[ChocChip 0]

When you guys say this player is a 'replacement' for that player i think it can lead to direct comparisons when maybe they're not applicable. Players can be just different and each will probably bring something different to the team.

 

I really don't know the merits of Luque, never seen him play. Robert could provide great delivery but was not an intelligent user of the ball often imo. He could ping in a great cross but would also sometimes choose the wrong option. Sometimes he'd run with it and often lose it when passing it early would have been better. Often he'd stand about near the touchline with play going on in field just, i'd compare this to Pires who would often run a diagonal behind the full back and needs are fairly simple pass to make that move look great and incisive. Robert's movement off the ball wasn't very good imo. He was good when he had a bit of time and space to hit a good cross. He didn't have enough strings to his bow i think. I reckon Bellamy made Shearer and Robert look good because his movement created space for everyone. Won't ever deny Robert's assist record in whatever season it was but whatever pattern of play we were employing then, we either changed it or the opposition figured us out. As far as stats are concrened, Jenas always had a very high pass completion rate so i wouldn't use them to enforce an arguement. I'd like to see a stat for the % of successful opposition attacks (by that i mean a shot on goal) just after Robert lost us the ball, bet it would be pretty high!

 

Is Owen a replacement for Bellamy, both quick with good movement, both even come with dodgy injury records? You can't say he's Shearer's replacement because he's a completely different type of player.

 

Is Emre a replacement for Speed, Jenas or what Viana should've been?

 

I don't suppose we'll have all the expensive players onthe pitch for long but if we ever do then we'll see how they play as a team and who contributes what and how.

[Guest alex]

As for HTT's points, I think one of Keegan's best assets was his ability to get top players to come here. If Shearer can emulate that he'll be half way there if/when he takes over the reins.

[Renton 21615]

It's been done to death but OPTA stats don't tell the full story. There's plenty of people I know who didn't rate Robert who (in my opinion) know their football. The same people admired flair players. Bellamy is a total different kettle of fish, everyone rated him while he was at the club.

50609[/snapback]

Aye, sad bastards on here who continually slag him, aren't they?

 

BTW The people you know who didn't rate Robert are all wrong. I know best, as you agreed with earlier. I can also see the lack of goals in the team, I assume you and your mates think our previous attacking threat, that's now almost completely lacking, came from anywhere other than from Robert. That's what dislike of a player does to blinkered people, it stops them seeing the big picture.

50628[/snapback]

Actually, it's not just my mates it's family members and their mates too. Many of whom have played football to a pretty decent standard. One of them even played for the toon. Anyway, I respect their opinions. They had a lot to say about Robert's contribution and lack of it at times. Obviously, when he was on song he was brilliant. He was dead frustrating though in my view as I thought he played in bursts rather than gave his all for 90 minutes. Maybe he just isn't a natural athlete but, if that is the case, it is still to the detriment of his game.

I know people will argue against this view but I still reckon the fact he's ended up at Pompey says a lot. Nobody at the top clubs were prepared to take a chance of a player who didn't do it on a consistent enough basis.

50635[/snapback]

 

I can see it starting again...... (and have some responsibility for it).

 

Please, can we not reignite this one again? Pretty please?

 

Oh and HTT, interesting post. Fail to see what it's got to do with Chopra like.

[Guest alex]

Some good debate on here though Renton IMO which is nice to see. I agree re: Robert (and Bellamy though). By the way Hugo Viana is not a defensive midfielder.

[ChocChip 0]

As for HTT's points, I think one of Keegan's best assets was his ability to get top players to come here. If Shearer can emulate that he'll be half way there if/when he takes over the reins.

50638[/snapback]

 

Didn't Bryan Robson attract good players to Middlesbrough?

[Guest alex]

As for HTT's points, I think one of Keegan's best assets was his ability to get top players to come here. If Shearer can emulate that he'll be half way there if/when he takes over the reins.

50638[/snapback]

 

Didn't Bryan Robson attract good players to Middlesbrough?

50641[/snapback]

That's why I said he'll be half way there dickhead!

 

[Howaythetoon 0]

I watched the 4-3 win over Man Utd again last night and that Robert was 5 times the player he was in his last 12-15 months at the club. He rarely wasted a pass, all his crosses and set-peices were brilliant and he was involved throughout and he actually won a few tackles with Beckham.

 

I also noted just how mobile Shearer was back then, compared to now. He was immense in that game and everywhere. Rob Lee was also canny good as was Andy Griffin who looked a very good right-back.

 

Dabizas and O'Brien constantly messed up the offside trap though but their last minute defending was brilliant.

 

Bellamy was also brilliant, gave Blanc nightmares.

 

What struck me most though, that team, give or take Bellamy, Robert, Shearer and Given, were distinctly average where as Man Utd had Van Nistelrooy, Cole, Giggs, Keane, Beckham and later on Scholes and we kept the ball superbly well and Acuna, why didn't he play more? He was brilliant.

 

We've stagnated a lot and for me, watching that match, Robert stagnated the most. He was brilliant in that game and that was him at his best, unplayable.

 

I think after his first season and all the rave reviews and adulation, he kind of thought he had made it and probably took it easier in games knowing a set-piece or one bit of magic could make up for an all-round lack of application.

 

Don't get me wrong he had been a bloody good player for us overall, but watching that match last night then remembering some of his latter performances, I felt pissed off and cheated in a way because h had talent and he was much much better than he actually performed many a time for us.

 

I don't know how, why and when it all went wrong for him but it did and now at 30? I think it was the best time to change things and play with different players, though he would still be a good squad player.

 

At what price though given his constant sniping and back-talk to the media? I know Shay Given for one was pissed off reading Robert's stuff before big matches, feeling he was undermining the team and playing for himself and not the team while everyone else was sweating their balls off.

 

Anyway, we have Luque now and N'Zogbia's looking good.

[Shearergol 0]

I don't think Robert was sold because he couldn't tackle etc. I think it was more to do with his perceived inconsistency. One thing I will say though is that while under Souness everybody was meant to be given a clean slate, the manager had it in for Robert (and Bellamy) from the start. However, while I liked Bellamy, I was one of the ones who wasn't too bothered about seeing the back of Laurent.

50474[/snapback]

 

I agree with that, and thought both were immense assets to our side. I bet he would have it in for Luque as well if he hadn't signed him himself. Doesn't seem like a proper Souness player to me.

 

Btw aren't Robert and Bellamy doing quite well at their new clubs?

50477[/snapback]

I've no idea, as I don't follow their respective clubs. What I do know is that they were both excellent players for us and were booted out with no replacements coming in.

 

This is to the detriment of the club, as shown today with the financial implications of no European football showing up pretty clearly.

50596[/snapback]

 

So now you're saying that Luque isn't a replacement for Bellamy OR Robert?

 

Woah, that's a whole new ball game....

50618[/snapback]

Why would I say Luque is a replacement for Bellamy when it's obvious he isn't?

 

 

 

Obvious based on the fact you heard Souness say he'll add more options on the left? Or obvious based on the fact that you've never actually seen him play?

 

You're laughable mate, you really are

 

Can I say it's obvious Babayaro wasn't a replacement for Bernard, and then cry and moan when everyone disagrees with me?

[Renton 21615]

As for HTT's points, I think one of Keegan's best assets was his ability to get top players to come here. If Shearer can emulate that he'll be half way there if/when he takes over the reins.

50638[/snapback]

 

Didn't Bryan Robson attract good players to Middlesbrough?

50641[/snapback]

 

He did say half-way there. Can't really compare Robson and Shearer tbh.

[Guest alex]

Agree there like. Always thought Clarence was a canny player anarl.

EDIT: with HTT.

Edited October 28, 2005 by alex

[ChocChip 0]

As for HTT's points, I think one of Keegan's best assets was his ability to get top players to come here. If Shearer can emulate that he'll be half way there if/when he takes over the reins.

50638[/snapback]

 

Didn't Bryan Robson attract good players to Middlesbrough?

50641[/snapback]

 

He did say half-way there. Can't really compare Robson and Shearer tbh.

50646[/snapback]

 

True, Robson was much more successful as a player