Renton 21621 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 As for HTT's points, I think one of Keegan's best assets was his ability to get top players to come here. If Shearer can emulate that he'll be half way there if/when he takes over the reins. 50638[/snapback] Didn't Bryan Robson attract good players to Middlesbrough? 50641[/snapback] He did say half-way there. Can't really compare Robson and Shearer tbh. 50646[/snapback] True, Robson was much more successful as a player 50648[/snapback] No he wasn't. He was involved in more succesful teams (and then only just). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Robson was the better drinker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChip 0 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 As for HTT's points, I think one of Keegan's best assets was his ability to get top players to come here. If Shearer can emulate that he'll be half way there if/when he takes over the reins. 50638[/snapback] Didn't Bryan Robson attract good players to Middlesbrough? 50641[/snapback] He did say half-way there. Can't really compare Robson and Shearer tbh. 50646[/snapback] True, Robson was much more successful as a player 50648[/snapback] No he wasn't. He was involved in more succesful teams (and then only just). 50649[/snapback] Now now,don't get all sensitive on me, i was fishing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythetoon 0 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Didn't Bryan Robson attract good players to Middlesbrough? 50641[/snapback] Juninho aside, and maybe Ravanelli, who did he attract? Most of them were mercnaries anyway which suggest the money being offered was what attracted those players, and nor Robson himself. At one point Middlesbrough's wage bill was bigger than both Arsenal and Liverpool's and only second to Man Utd and our own in the lattter parts of the 90s. Shearer has attracted not only genuine quality, bit top-class professionals. I think Shearer will shock us all I really do, I'd never write that man off regardless of what he chose to do. back on topic, I think it's unfair to judge Chopra based on fits and starts, just 16 games and only 4 full starts. He has the talent, everyone recognises this within the club, Shearer says he's one of the best natural finisher's he's seen but he's struggling to adapt from reserve team pace to Premiership pace and as a result he's looking lightweight. At his age now, one has to worry because some players in his age group have over 100 Premiership games behind them, yet at 21 he's being asked to suddenly jump up from effectively reserve team football which as anyone will tell you is slow as ferk, to the high intensity of the Premiership. I'd like to see him given 20 games but we can't really blood youngsters through, especially in attacking positions, when we are in dire need of wins and some kind of consistency. It's tough and I feel for the lad because he loves this club, he's anotehr Clarkie, Toon daft and wants this so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChip 0 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Didn't Bryan Robson attract good players to Middlesbrough? 50641[/snapback] Juninho aside, and maybe Ravanelli, who did he attract? Most of them were mercnaries anyway which suggest the money being offered was what attracted those players, and nor Robson himself. At one point Middlesbrough's wage bill was bigger than both Arsenal and Liverpool's and only second to Man Utd and our own in the lattter parts of the 90s. Shearer has attracted not only genuine quality, bit top-class professionals. I think Shearer will shock us all I really do, I'd never write that man off regardless of what he chose to do. back on topic, I think it's unfair to judge Chopra based on fits and starts, just 16 games and only 4 full starts. He has the talent, everyone recognises this within the club, Shearer says he's one of the best natural finisher's he's seen but he's struggling to adapt from reserve team pace to Premiership pace and as a result he's looking lightweight. At his age now, one has to worry because some players in his age group have over 100 Premiership games behind them, yet at 21 he's being asked to suddenly jump up from effectively reserve team football which as anyone will tell you is slow as ferk, to the high intensity of the Premiership. I'd like to see him given 20 games but we can't really blood youngsters through, especially in attacking positions, when we are in dire need of wins and some kind of consistency. It's tough and I feel for the lad because he loves this club, he's anotehr Clarkie, Toon daft and wants this so bad. 50652[/snapback] Well, i want Shearer to shock me, i really do. As for Chopra, i think his problem is that he has no real physical advantage. A lot of Prem strikers are strong and/or quick. He's neither. Even Ameobi is strong if most of him is pointing him in the direction he intended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3355 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 We've stagnated a lot and for me, watching that match, Robert stagnated the most. He was brilliant in that game and that was him at his best, unplayable. I think after his first season and all the rave reviews and adulation, he kind of thought he had made it and probably took it easier in games knowing a set-piece or one bit of magic could make up for an all-round lack of application. Don't get me wrong he had been a bloody good player for us overall, but watching that match last night then remembering some of his latter performances, I felt pissed off and cheated in a way because h had talent and he was much much better than he actually performed many a time for us. I don't know how, why and when it all went wrong for him but it did and now at 30? I think it was the best time to change things and play with different players, though he would still be a good squad player. I've got that game on tape and it is one that I constantly watch and yes HTT, you are so right - the whole team ahd this self belief that they could chase anyone down, maybe it became more of a ego thing than we will ever know. On the Robert comment, remember that second season he had a shocker, was out injured for the first half of the season and then had to win his place back from Viana. I think the fractured vertebre was probably a lot worse than we imagined and he seem to lose a bit of mobility after that. By the way Hugo Viana is not a defensive midfielder. Alex, we all know that this comment is good craic anaral but lets be honest it is the best argument against how even a football expert can get it so wrong. If a manager like SBR of impeccable credentials can be wrong just what does it say about someone like Souness and some of his decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 By the way Hugo Viana is not a defensive midfielder. Alex, we all know that this comment is good craic anaral but lets be honest it is the best argument against how even a football expert can get it so wrong. If a manager like SBR of impeccable credentials can be wrong just what does it say about someone like Souness and some of his decisions. 50656[/snapback] By football expert you mean Blaydon, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3355 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 By the way Hugo Viana is not a defensive midfielder. Alex, we all know that this comment is good craic anaral but lets be honest it is the best argument against how even a football expert can get it so wrong. If a manager like SBR of impeccable credentials can be wrong just what does it say about someone like Souness and some of his decisions. 50656[/snapback] By football expert you mean Blaydon, right? 50658[/snapback] Yeah because Blaydon picked the starting 11 for what, at least the last 4 years, prior to Souness and he often told the press how Viana was a DM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChip 0 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 By the way Hugo Viana is not a defensive midfielder. Alex, we all know that this comment is good craic anaral but lets be honest it is the best argument against how even a football expert can get it so wrong. If a manager like SBR of impeccable credentials can be wrong just what does it say about someone like Souness and some of his decisions. 50656[/snapback] By football expert you mean Blaydon, right? 50658[/snapback] Yeah because Blaydon picked the starting 11 for what, at least the last 4 years, prior to Souness and he often told the press how Viana was a DM. 50660[/snapback] Did SBR ever say Viana was a DM? I thought when said 'replacing Speed' he just meant left side of central midf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44866 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 By the way Hugo Viana is not a defensive midfielder. Alex, we all know that this comment is good craic anaral but lets be honest it is the best argument against how even a football expert can get it so wrong. If a manager like SBR of impeccable credentials can be wrong just what does it say about someone like Souness and some of his decisions. 50656[/snapback] By football expert you mean Blaydon, right? 50658[/snapback] Yeah because Blaydon picked the starting 11 for what, at least the last 4 years, prior to Souness and he often told the press how Viana was a DM. 50660[/snapback] Is this the sort of thing that the whoosh was invented for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3355 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 By the way Hugo Viana is not a defensive midfielder. Alex, we all know that this comment is good craic anaral but lets be honest it is the best argument against how even a football expert can get it so wrong. If a manager like SBR of impeccable credentials can be wrong just what does it say about someone like Souness and some of his decisions. 50656[/snapback] By football expert you mean Blaydon, right? 50658[/snapback] Yeah because Blaydon picked the starting 11 for what, at least the last 4 years, prior to Souness and he often told the press how Viana was a DM. 50660[/snapback] Did SBR ever say Viana was a DM? I thought when said 'replacing Speed' he just meant left side of central midf. 50661[/snapback] Sorry CC but what do you think SBR regarded Speeds position as??? When Rob Lee was ushered away his replacement according to SBR was ... yes you guessed it DM or as it use to be known, the holding midfielder.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21621 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Jesus wept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3355 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Jesus wept. 50665[/snapback] Why was Jesus weaping Renton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChip 0 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 By the way Hugo Viana is not a defensive midfielder. Alex, we all know that this comment is good craic anaral but lets be honest it is the best argument against how even a football expert can get it so wrong. If a manager like SBR of impeccable credentials can be wrong just what does it say about someone like Souness and some of his decisions. 50656[/snapback] By football expert you mean Blaydon, right? 50658[/snapback] Yeah because Blaydon picked the starting 11 for what, at least the last 4 years, prior to Souness and he often told the press how Viana was a DM. 50660[/snapback] Did SBR ever say Viana was a DM? I thought when said 'replacing Speed' he just meant left side of central midf. 50661[/snapback] Sorry CC but what do you think SBR regarded Speeds position as??? When Rob Lee was ushered away his replacement according to SBR was ... yes you guessed it DM or as it use to be known, the holding midfielder.. 50664[/snapback] I thought he would play Viana on the left side and Jenas on the right side with Jenas being more defensive minded. I have to say, imo, this would have been incredilbly lightweight but that's what i thought SBR's plans were. I get the impression this is a discussion that's been done to death on this board already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythetoon 0 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Jesus wept. 50665[/snapback] Why was Jesus weaping Renton? 50667[/snapback] Them ferk off nails probably didn't help. The big fanny... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChip 0 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Statistics can prove that Jesus was, in general, a very sad guy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21621 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Statistics can prove that Jesus was, in general, a very sad guy.... 50686[/snapback] Did he win an award for pessimism though? Hey, are we getting some toontastic awards this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 (edited) So HTL, you don't make snap decisions about Luque but you think it's fair to compare the relative fitness records of a player who has been at the club 5 minutes and one who has was here for a few seasons? 50627[/snapback] Luque has been at the club for more than 5 minutes. Thought I'd point that out. And you're right, I don't make snap decisions. 50630[/snapback] Snap judgement I meant, sorry Dad. You've made a one based on the short time Luque has been here. 50631[/snapback] Sigh. No I haven't made a snap judgement, I don't make them either. It is a fact that Luque hasn't been able to be fit enough to play many matches for us. I suggest you find something else to do instead of trying to pick an argument. Edited October 28, 2005 by Howaythelads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 (edited) When you guys say this player is a 'replacement' for that player i think it can lead to direct comparisons when maybe they're not applicable. Players can be just different and each will probably bring something different to the team. I really don't know the merits of Luque, never seen him play. Robert could provide great delivery but was not an intelligent user of the ball often imo. He could ping in a great cross but would also sometimes choose the wrong option. Sometimes he'd run with it and often lose it when passing it early would have been better. Often he'd stand about near the touchline with play going on in field just, i'd compare this to Pires who would often run a diagonal behind the full back and needs are fairly simple pass to make that move look great and incisive. Robert's movement off the ball wasn't very good imo. He was good when he had a bit of time and space to hit a good cross. He didn't have enough strings to his bow i think. I reckon Bellamy made Shearer and Robert look good because his movement created space for everyone. Won't ever deny Robert's assist record in whatever season it was but whatever pattern of play we were employing then, we either changed it or the opposition figured us out. As far as stats are concrened, Jenas always had a very high pass completion rate so i wouldn't use them to enforce an arguement. I'd like to see a stat for the % of successful opposition attacks (by that i mean a shot on goal) just after Robert lost us the ball, bet it would be pretty high! Is Owen a replacement for Bellamy, both quick with good movement, both even come with dodgy injury records? You can't say he's Shearer's replacement because he's a completely different type of player. Is Emre a replacement for Speed, Jenas or what Viana should've been? I don't suppose we'll have all the expensive players onthe pitch for long but if we ever do then we'll see how they play as a team and who contributes what and how. 50637[/snapback] 1. Want to make quite clear that I've never used stats to judge a player. However, as it is a stone cold fact that one player scored and created more goals than the rest of our midfield put together I'd suggest a good manager would try to get more from that player. It seems to be accepted by most that Mr Souness had it in for Robert and Bellamy the day he walked in the door. That's a lot of our attacking threat facing being booted out of the club. 2. It can be said that Owen is a replacement for Shearer on the basis that Owen is a goalscorer just as Shearer is. Owen is definitely not a replacement for Bellamy. 3. Clubs didn't 'figure us out' by getting to grips with Robert. What happened last season was that Mr Souness got rid of the pace and movement up front, which made it almost impossible for the midfielders to create anything. That's why we temporarily looked better when Dyer went up front ( example would be away to Sporting ). 4. The decline in our ability to break teams down started when Robson fell out with Solano. Again, nothing to do with Robert. Edited October 28, 2005 by Howaythelads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 As for HTT's points, I think one of Keegan's best assets was his ability to get top players to come here. If Shearer can emulate that he'll be half way there if/when he takes over the reins. 50638[/snapback] Steady on, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 As for HTT's points, I think one of Keegan's best assets was his ability to get top players to come here. If Shearer can emulate that he'll be half way there if/when he takes over the reins. 50638[/snapback] Didn't Bryan Robson attract good players to Middlesbrough? 50641[/snapback] Not really. I thought he attracted mainly mercenaries or has-beens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 So HTL, you don't make snap decisions about Luque but you think it's fair to compare the relative fitness records of a player who has been at the club 5 minutes and one who has was here for a few seasons? 50627[/snapback] Luque has been at the club for more than 5 minutes. Thought I'd point that out. And you're right, I don't make snap decisions. 50630[/snapback] Snap judgement I meant, sorry Dad. You've made a one based on the short time Luque has been here. 50631[/snapback] Sigh. No I haven't made a snap judgement, I don't make them either. It is a fact that Luque hasn't been able to be fit enough to play any matches for us. I suggest you find something else to do instead of trying to pick an argument. 50699[/snapback] Jesus wept tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 As for HTT's points, I think one of Keegan's best assets was his ability to get top players to come here. If Shearer can emulate that he'll be half way there if/when he takes over the reins. 50638[/snapback] Steady on, man. 50702[/snapback] Why the comma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 As for HTT's points, I think one of Keegan's best assets was his ability to get top players to come here. If Shearer can emulate that he'll be half way there if/when he takes over the reins. 50638[/snapback] Steady on, man. 50702[/snapback] Why the comma? 50705[/snapback] It's a mistake. Why do you post shit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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