ChocChip 0 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 I think Chopra suffered from the NUFC tendency to pass to Shearer no matter what the situation. Otherwise i really saw nothing to ever really want to see him play again. Not quick, not strong, not canny just willing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 If it had been Robert who'd done fuck all in a match apart from provide an assist half the people on here would be banging on about how he'd done his job etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20944 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 no he's not comparable to Luque but do you really think he's been given a fair chance to show what he can do? A start last night were he played poor along with the rest of the team and thats it, not good enough. He may never get a sufficient run out but thats life. Like I said he might not be good enough, and as a first choice striker he certainly isnt, but he could still do a job for us. Im sure he's better than what we saw last night. 50043[/snapback] Well its just my opinion he's not up to PL scratch and never will be. There are plenty of kids who will never get any chance to play for NUFC, I've seen enough of Chopra (including reserves) to make my mind up. At his age, potential should be becoming reality, but it's not unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20944 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 If it had been Robert who'd done fuck all in a match apart from provide an assist half the people on here would be banging on about how he'd done his job etc. 50064[/snapback] Conversely, Robert could have had an outstanding game and scored a hatrick, and there would still be some whinging about his defensive short-comings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 If it had been Robert who'd done fuck all in a match apart from provide an assist half the people on here would be banging on about how he'd done his job etc. 50064[/snapback] Conversely, Robert could have had an outstanding game and scored a hatrick, and there would still be some whinging about his defensive short-comings. 50069[/snapback] Did the latter ever happen in a game for the Toon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol 0 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Luque is as much a striker as he is a left winger. Is this guy the most judged player EVER at Newcastle before he's played a few games? How come so many of you are "experts" on him yet seem to know very little about him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 I see Owen as an out and out goalscorer, in that sense the money was spent on a replacement for Shearer a season before he retires. We have only one real quality PL striker now. I see Luque as a replacement for Robert. Are you happy with 2 from Shearer, Owen, Ameobi and Chopra? 49972[/snapback] If Ameobi can maintain the level of performance against Sunderland he's good enough. I'd like to see Chopra given a run before we know if he can make it. The way N'Zogbia's develping Luque may find himself up front. I think we'll replace Shearer/Bellamy in January. I'm not going to get an answer on my Chopra questions now, am I! 49975[/snapback] Ameobi can't maintain that level of performance. Even if he could, that's not top level so he's still not good enough for us as a regular starter if you have ambitions to challenge the top teams. That level of performance makes him a useful squad player, which is more than he's been so far. Although as I've said before, I'd be interested in how he would do in a partnership with someone other than Shearer. Regarding Chopra, giving someone a dozen games or so to find out they're not good enough leaves you in the cack. Players don't get many chances these days, they really do have to grab it almost immediately because there's too much at stake to give them a really long run if they're producing nothing. It's obvious that Chopra hasn't had a run like Ameobi has, but when he has come in he's done absolutely nowt to show he is a PL quality player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20944 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 If it had been Robert who'd done fuck all in a match apart from provide an assist half the people on here would be banging on about how he'd done his job etc. 50064[/snapback] Conversely, Robert could have had an outstanding game and scored a hatrick, and there would still be some whinging about his defensive short-comings. 50069[/snapback] Did the latter ever happen in a game for the Toon? 50075[/snapback] I don't follow. I thought my point was obvious though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 If it had been Robert who'd done fuck all in a match apart from provide an assist half the people on here would be banging on about how he'd done his job etc. 50064[/snapback] Conversely, Robert could have had an outstanding game and scored a hatrick, and there would still be some whinging about his defensive short-comings. 50069[/snapback] Did the latter ever happen in a game for the Toon? 50075[/snapback] I don't follow. I thought my point was obvious though. 50090[/snapback] My scenario was an actual one, yours wasn't, just meant as a joke like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 What were Souness's striking options when he arrived though? I'd say they are better now (given Luque can play upfront if needed). I'm not saying Souness is great and in an ideal world Bellamy would still be here (we've both agreed in the past that Souness could have handled that one better). But Souness did have to strengthen other areas too. Whether we rate Boumsong or not, we needed a centre-half (something Robson never properly addressed - Woodgate never fit, O'Brien not good enough etc.) Also, we had loads of central midfielders but I'm not sure they were good enough. Faye was a poor signing but in Emre and Parker we've got the creativity and steel that has been missing from the middle of the park for too long. Basically, what I'm saying is that whether you are Souness fan or not, I think it's fair to argue he needed to strengthen a few areas. 49979[/snapback] Yes, he did need to strengthen. But he's done it in the wrong order to satisfy his inflated ego. Hughes, Bellamy and Robert all went out the door at the wrong time, assuming people believe they should have gone at all. Boumsong, Babayaro and Faye are all shite signings imo. Saying Luque can play up front is the same as saying Dyer can play up front as far as I'm concerned. We desperately need to sign another quality striker in January, because if we're still plodding along don't be surprised if we're down to no strikers when Owen jumps ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Totally agree with that, Robson thought Jenas and Dyer was the perfect midfield (and future England one!), Souness thinks Emre & Parker. I don't think there'd be too many arguments about which is better. There's plenty of managers I'd rather have than Souness but I think he's signed good players for us. 49983[/snapback] I don't think Robson saw Jenas and Dyer as the perfect midfield at all. Speed was his main man, when Speed left he tried to replace him with Butt. I don't think he was ever going to consistently rely on Jenas and Dyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Unfortunately I missed last nights match, really want to see what he could do for us over 90 minutes, even against Grimbsy, doesn't sound like I missed much. Is it not fair to say he needs a run in the side, score a couple of goals for his confidence and see what his real level is? Did he look any worse than Ameobi has done at times? Granted I'm saying all this without having seen it! 49963[/snapback] Chopra has nothing to offer, literally nothing. Ameobi is a far superior player, however hard that is to believe! What does Chopra offer - he's lighweight (never seen him win a tackle), can't pass, isn't particularly quick, is no good in the air, and hasn't got a great shot. At least not at PL level. I honestly don't see him as an option at all, and should get shot asap. As for Ameobi, one swallow does not maketh a summer etc. It'll take a hell of a lot more convincing that he is fit to be in our team. And is Luque a striker? That's a big risk. Owen fair enough, but he'll miss 50% of games. So, all in all, I would say we need to invest about £20M up front or discover some brilliant young talent, or we will be weak as piss up front. I can't see either happening. 50000[/snapback] Yup, you're thinking along the same lines as me. And if it happens another £20m will take the bully's spending to over £70m to improve a team that finished 4th, 3rd then 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Totally agree with that, Robson thought Jenas and Dyer was the perfect midfield (and future England one!), Souness thinks Emre & Parker. I don't think there'd be too many arguments about which is better. There's plenty of managers I'd rather have than Souness but I think he's signed good players for us. 49983[/snapback] I don't think Robson saw Jenas and Dyer as the perfect midfield at all. Speed was his main man, when Speed left he tried to replace him with Butt. I don't think he was ever going to consistently rely on Jenas and Dyer. 50095[/snapback] And, given how awful Butt was, it was clearly an area that needed strengthening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Saying Luque can play up front is the same as saying Dyer can play up front as far as I'm concerned. 50093[/snapback] Luque has been a far more prolific goalscorer in the last couple of years, plays in a different position and is a totally different sort of player. He's even said he sees himself as left-sided striker, a position in which I believe La Coruna utilised him on many occasions. So, it's not a very good comparison in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Totally agree with that, Robson thought Jenas and Dyer was the perfect midfield (and future England one!), Souness thinks Emre & Parker. I don't think there'd be too many arguments about which is better. There's plenty of managers I'd rather have than Souness but I think he's signed good players for us. 49983[/snapback] I don't think Robson saw Jenas and Dyer as the perfect midfield at all. Speed was his main man, when Speed left he tried to replace him with Butt. I don't think he was ever going to consistently rely on Jenas and Dyer. 50095[/snapback] And, given how awful Butt was, it was clearly an area that needed strengthening. 50104[/snapback] And given how awful Boumsong and Babayaro are, these are both area's that still need strengthening despite the bully spending money. He's wasted money on shite and done things in the wrong order to satisfy his ego. 'Proper players', my arse. We need a 'proper manager' before anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43852 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 No offence HTL, but constantly referring to Souness as "the bully" makes you sound quite childish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Saying Luque can play up front is the same as saying Dyer can play up front as far as I'm concerned. 50093[/snapback] He's spent more of his career as a striker than a left-midfielder. In fact, I've heard Souness critisitised for replacing Robert with a striker. I'm sure all that 'new Vieira' stuff came from Robson. He was grooming Jenas to replace Speed and saw Dyer as the other half of that midfield. When Shepherd suggested it was time for Speed to move on he got Butt in to replace him, he still saw Jenas as ultimately the answer to the defensive midfield problem. I'm not saying I'm a Souness fan, I'm saying not every single thing he's done has been bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Totally agree with that, Robson thought Jenas and Dyer was the perfect midfield (and future England one!), Souness thinks Emre & Parker. I don't think there'd be too many arguments about which is better. There's plenty of managers I'd rather have than Souness but I think he's signed good players for us. 49983[/snapback] I don't think Robson saw Jenas and Dyer as the perfect midfield at all. Speed was his main man, when Speed left he tried to replace him with Butt. I don't think he was ever going to consistently rely on Jenas and Dyer. 50095[/snapback] And, given how awful Butt was, it was clearly an area that needed strengthening. 50104[/snapback] And given how awful Boumsong and Babayaro are, these are both area's that still need strengthening despite the bully spending money. He's wasted money on shite and done things in the wrong order to satisfy his ego. 'Proper players', my arse. We need a 'proper manager' before anything else. 50106[/snapback] I agree about those two, Babayaro is a sicknote and even last season, I wasn't particularly impressed with Boumsong. This season he's been awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 (edited) Saying Luque can play up front is the same as saying Dyer can play up front as far as I'm concerned. 50093[/snapback] Luque has been a far more prolific goalscorer in the last couple of years, plays in a different position and is a totally different sort of player. He's even said he sees himself as left-sided striker, a position in which I believe La Coruna utilised him on many occasions. So, it's not a very good comparison in my view. 50105[/snapback] It is a good example in view of the fact that Luque is not a striker. If he plays up front he will do it as a player converted from some other position, same as Dyer, which eas the point I was making. But then, as usual, you know what people mean you just like to waste people's time pretending you don't. Why do you do that? BTW I don't really give a shite how prolific someone is in another league. The English league is different. Edited October 27, 2005 by Howaythelads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Saying Luque can play up front is the same as saying Dyer can play up front as far as I'm concerned. 50093[/snapback] Luque has been a far more prolific goalscorer in the last couple of years, plays in a different position and is a totally different sort of player. He's even said he sees himself as left-sided striker, a position in which I believe La Coruna utilised him on many occasions. So, it's not a very good comparison in my view. 50105[/snapback] It is a good example in view of the fact that Luque is not a striker. If he plays up front he will do it as a player converted from some other position, same as Dyer, which eas the point I was making. But then, as usual, you know what people mean you just like to waste people's time pretending you don't. BTW I don't really give a shite how prolific someone is in another league. The English league is different. 50110[/snapback] He is a striker and you would give a shit about how prolific he was if it supported the point you're trying to make IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 No offence HTL, but constantly referring to Souness as "the bully" makes you sound quite childish. 50107[/snapback] I know, just trying to fit in with you lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 No offence HTL, but constantly referring to Souness as "the bully" makes you sound quite childish. 50107[/snapback] I know, just trying to fit in with you lot. 50112[/snapback] As does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43852 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 No offence HTL, but constantly referring to Souness as "the bully" makes you sound quite childish. 50107[/snapback] I know, just trying to fit in with you lot. 50112[/snapback] WoooOOOoooo. Does that make you "the ingratiator"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Saying Luque can play up front is the same as saying Dyer can play up front as far as I'm concerned. 50093[/snapback] Luque has been a far more prolific goalscorer in the last couple of years, plays in a different position and is a totally different sort of player. He's even said he sees himself as left-sided striker, a position in which I believe La Coruna utilised him on many occasions. So, it's not a very good comparison in my view. 50105[/snapback] It is a good example in view of the fact that Luque is not a striker. If he plays up front he will do it as a player converted from some other position, same as Dyer, which eas the point I was making. But then, as usual, you know what people mean you just like to waste people's time pretending you don't. BTW I don't really give a shite how prolific someone is in another league. The English league is different. 50110[/snapback] He is a striker and you would give a shit about how prolific he was if it supported the point you're trying to make IMO. 50111[/snapback] You're wrong again. I never give a shit about past performances for another club, it's what they do for the club I support that I give a shit about. BTW Luque has still been signed to replace Robert. He isn't a striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Saying Luque can play up front is the same as saying Dyer can play up front as far as I'm concerned. 50093[/snapback] Luque has been a far more prolific goalscorer in the last couple of years, plays in a different position and is a totally different sort of player. He's even said he sees himself as left-sided striker, a position in which I believe La Coruna utilised him on many occasions. So, it's not a very good comparison in my view. 50105[/snapback] It is a good example in view of the fact that Luque is not a striker. If he plays up front he will do it as a player converted from some other position, same as Dyer, which eas the point I was making. But then, as usual, you know what people mean you just like to waste people's time pretending you don't. BTW I don't really give a shite how prolific someone is in another league. The English league is different. 50110[/snapback] He is a striker and you would give a shit about how prolific he was if it supported the point you're trying to make IMO. 50111[/snapback] You're wrong again. I never give a shit about past performances for another club, it's what they do for the club I support that I give a shit about. BTW Luque has still been signed to replace Robert. He isn't a striker. 50115[/snapback] He is a striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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