Guest Sima Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 Hardly an impartial source. For the record I wouldn't trust whar ASH says either. Paesepud, give up man! You've done it before so you can do it again. If nicotine replacement isn't working, ask your doctor for bupropion - that may help. I'm not one to preach, but smoking really isn't worth dying young for. 50868[/snapback] Ash's figures? or do they not have any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3708 Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 Tired old factually incorrect argument. All of the tax gathered from smokers will never cover the medical costs of treating same for smopking related diseases. Not taking into consideration the outlay for non smokers suffering from second hand smoke and the asthma treatments for children born to smoking parents. or the millions spent on premature baby clinics for babies born to drinking mothers. I am glad the old c*nt is dying. he is a wife beating sh*t. or maybe that is a "disease" too. P.S I dont think of alcoholism as a disease or you wouldn't be able to beat it without prescription medication like millions have in the past. 50290[/snapback] Same tired old bollocks as well....allegedly In fact, when you compare tobacco tax revenues with the alleged cost of health treatment, the former far outweighs the latter. In the UK, for example, tobacco tax revenue currently stands at £7 billion a year compared with the £1.5 billion it allegedly costs to tackle 'smoking-related' diseases. (Taxation revenue should of course be even higher - over £10 billion - but the Government has cleverly 'lost' £3 billion by over taxing tobacco and therefore encouraging smugglers and cross-Channel shoppers to buy the product abroad.) http://www.forestonline.org/output/page22.asp 50866[/snapback] However when taking into consideration the implications you cant take tax into as if you didn't spend on Cigarettes you would have more money to spend on other things without negative health effects but which also contain tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sima Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 Er........what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20422 Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 Hardly an impartial source. For the record I wouldn't trust whar ASH says either. Paesepud, give up man! You've done it before so you can do it again. If nicotine replacement isn't working, ask your doctor for bupropion - that may help. I'm not one to preach, but smoking really isn't worth dying young for. 50868[/snapback] Ash's figures? or do they not have any? 50872[/snapback] They've got a heel of a lot of afacts on the many ways smoking can kill you. Not sure if they have figures on the expense of smoking, and really not bothered if they do or not. However, I would say that the cost of treating heart disease or lung cancer is very high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sima Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 No figures? Just "facts" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20422 Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 No figures? Just "facts" 50925[/snapback] I doubt you can accurately calculate the cost of smoking on health tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sima Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 No figures? Just "facts" 50925[/snapback] I doubt you can accurately calculate the cost of smoking on health tbh. 50933[/snapback] I've given figures, nice of you to put up some kind of argument. Well done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20422 Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 (edited) No figures? Just "facts" 50925[/snapback] I doubt you can accurately calculate the cost of smoking on health tbh. 50933[/snapback] Why is that? 50954[/snapback] Well you have already answered one reason why it may be difficult by your post above. If someone has a heart attack you can't say for certain that smoking caused it or not. Sima, the figures you quoted are on a FOREST website, a pro-smoking pressure group. Forgive me if I take anything they say with a pinch of salt. Edit: Re-reading them, frankly I don't believe it. In fact most diseases are worsened by smoking - virtually all cardiovascular and lung disease, and many cancers. They claim it costs 1.5 billion to treat these. That figure is a tiny percentage of the NHS budget and is ludicrously low. They don't cite any source for their fugures, I suspect they are being deliberately misleading or have just made them up. Edited October 29, 2005 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 If it's all about how much money each of us put in and take out of the health service, why don't we allow rich people the best service available and leave the poor to die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted October 29, 2005 Author Share Posted October 29, 2005 Well you have already answered one reason why it may be difficult by your post above. If someone has a heart attack you can't say for certain that smoking caused it or not. Sima, the figures you quoted are on a FOREST website, a pro-smoking pressure group. Forgive me if I take anything they say with a pinch of salt. Edit: Re-reading them, frankly I don't believe it. In fact most diseases are worsened by smoking - virtually all cardiovascular and lung disease, and many cancers. They claim it costs 1.5 billion to treat these. That figure is a tiny percentage of the NHS budget and is ludicrously low. They don't cite any source for their fugures, I suspect they are being deliberately misleading or have just made them up. 50955[/snapback] I dont think any smoker would actively dispute that smoking is a terrible habit and a killer, yes its killing me but so is alcohol to halve the people on this board. The difference between smoking and alcohol is that smoking can help to kill others as well, those that dont smoke and never have done. What I would always argue against is that, by having a habit that isnt illegal and which does pump huge amounts of revenue into the government then smokers shouldnt be classed as second class citizens and warrant people saying they dont deserve health care. If it was illegal then that argument could hold some weight however it isnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20422 Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 Well you have already answered one reason why it may be difficult by your post above. If someone has a heart attack you can't say for certain that smoking caused it or not. Sima, the figures you quoted are on a FOREST website, a pro-smoking pressure group. Forgive me if I take anything they say with a pinch of salt. Edit: Re-reading them, frankly I don't believe it. In fact most diseases are worsened by smoking - virtually all cardiovascular and lung disease, and many cancers. They claim it costs 1.5 billion to treat these. That figure is a tiny percentage of the NHS budget and is ludicrously low. They don't cite any source for their fugures, I suspect they are being deliberately misleading or have just made them up. 50955[/snapback] I dont think any smoker would actively dispute that smoking is a terrible habit and a killer, yes its killing me but so is alcohol to halve the people on this board. The difference between smoking and alcohol is that smoking can help to kill others as well, those that dont smoke and never have done. What I would always argue against is that, by having a habit that isnt illegal and which does pump huge amounts of revenue into the government then smokers shouldnt be classed as second class citizens and warrant people saying they dont deserve health care. If it was illegal then that argument could hold some weight however it isnt. 50969[/snapback] I don't think anyone is saying that, I'm certainly not. I agree with your post completely. Actually, I used to smoke myself, albeit very lightly, so I'm not going to be a hypocrite. Now the thought of smoking cigarette actually makes me want to vomit. And I hate the smell I get on my clothes after a night in a pub: fortunately I think that will be a thing of the past soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakermaker 0 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 could the weak minds be a byproduct of the addictions? I agree that George Best has fucked his life up good and proper, but he should be remembered for his football and not the way he died, the liver could have gone to a better patient, no doubt about it. 50187[/snapback] why should he only be rememebered for the good stuff,when you die you should be remembered for your entire life not just the nice bits. george best....fantastically talented footballer,could have been the best in the world,alchoholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6822 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 If it's all about how much money each of us put in and take out of the health service, why don't we allow rich people the best service available and leave the poor to die? 50965[/snapback] tahts the theoty BUPA have been making a killing off (excuse the pun) for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 tahts the theoty BUPA have been making a killing off (excuse the pun) for years. 51046[/snapback] I thought you didn't drink! The thread should be called "George Bests lack of health" tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sima Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 I don't think anyone is saying that, I'm certainly not. I agree with your post completely. Actually, I used to smoke myself, albeit very lightly, so I'm not going to be a hypocrite. Now the thought of smoking cigarette actually makes me want to vomit. And I hate the smell I get on my clothes after a night in a pub: fortunately I think that will be a thing of the past soon. 50976[/snapback] Ex smoker eh? Wondered why you are vitriolic on the subject. You can dispute Forest's figures if you like, the fact is though, they are there and there is nothing to contradict them other than hearsay that "ooooh, the revenue generated is nowhere near what it costs". Which, without figures, is merely "wild speculation". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20422 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 I don't think anyone is saying that, I'm certainly not. I agree with your post completely. Actually, I used to smoke myself, albeit very lightly, so I'm not going to be a hypocrite. Now the thought of smoking cigarette actually makes me want to vomit. And I hate the smell I get on my clothes after a night in a pub: fortunately I think that will be a thing of the past soon. 50976[/snapback] Ex smoker eh? Wondered why you are vitriolic on the subject. You can dispute Forest's figures if you like, the fact is though, they are there and there is nothing to contradict them other than hearsay that "ooooh, the revenue generated is nowhere near what it costs". Which, without figures, is merely "wild speculation". 51153[/snapback] Vitriolic? What are you talking about. You can trust unsourced figures from a pro-smoking lobby if you like, I would prefer sourced figures from an impartial source. But I know they don't add up. £1.5 billion to treat all the cardiovascular diseases and cancers caused by smoking? I don't think so. That's only £25 per capita. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Smoking is bad for you, just say no kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStar 0 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Smoking makes you look older and cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themags 0 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Smoking is bad for you, just say no kids 51594[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 More of AF's personalities? That guy on the right is pretty much what I expect the professor to look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Smoking makes you look older and cool. 51599[/snapback] Well, it ages you after a while, if that's what you mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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